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LDS running new TV ads

logicrules
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2/24/2012 3:25:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
There i a new TV ad giving a phone number for publication which are free. When you call they claim they are a publisher who i non profit. They say they are non denominational protestant. The tell you that Jesus is not God and Heavenly Father had many sons in old times. Satan was the brother of Jesus she said. When asked if she was LDS she said no, and then spouted more LDS propaganda about protestant denominations. She said they promulgated the bible. She claimed the name of the religion was Doer students but never spelled it.

Seems lying i an open LDS tool.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/25/2012 12:24:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 3:25:05 PM, logicrules wrote:
There i a new TV ad giving a phone number for publication which are free. When you call they claim they are a publisher who i non profit. They say they are non denominational protestant. The tell you that Jesus is not God and Heavenly Father had many sons in old times. Satan was the brother of Jesus she said. When asked if she was LDS she said no, and then spouted more LDS propaganda about protestant denominations. She said they promulgated the bible. She claimed the name of the religion was Doer students but never spelled it.

Seems lying i an open LDS tool.

So... the LDS church is running ads with a number, and the people that answer say they aren't LDS?

Do you have the phone number still, or any information on the commercial?

It seems the logical conclusion would be that the ad wasn't actually an LDS ad. Perhaps another group trying to discredit it.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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2/25/2012 12:30:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/25/2012 12:24:39 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/24/2012 3:25:05 PM, logicrules wrote:
There i a new TV ad giving a phone number for publication which are free. When you call they claim they are a publisher who i non profit. They say they are non denominational protestant. The tell you that Jesus is not God and Heavenly Father had many sons in old times. Satan was the brother of Jesus she said. When asked if she was LDS she said no, and then spouted more LDS propaganda about protestant denominations. She said they promulgated the bible. She claimed the name of the religion was Doer students but never spelled it.

Seems lying i an open LDS tool.

So... the LDS church is running ads with a number, and the people that answer say they aren't LDS?

Do you have the phone number still, or any information on the commercial?

It seems the logical conclusion would be that the ad wasn't actually an LDS ad. Perhaps another group trying to discredit it.

Information above. Logic? naw that is what the questions and answer were about. LDS have phrases they use particular to them. "Heavenly Father" instead of God.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/25/2012 12:34:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/25/2012 12:30:26 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 2/25/2012 12:24:39 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/24/2012 3:25:05 PM, logicrules wrote:
There i a new TV ad giving a phone number for publication which are free. When you call they claim they are a publisher who i non profit. They say they are non denominational protestant. The tell you that Jesus is not God and Heavenly Father had many sons in old times. Satan was the brother of Jesus she said. When asked if she was LDS she said no, and then spouted more LDS propaganda about protestant denominations. She said they promulgated the bible. She claimed the name of the religion was Doer students but never spelled it.

Seems lying i an open LDS tool.

So... the LDS church is running ads with a number, and the people that answer say they aren't LDS?

Do you have the phone number still, or any information on the commercial?

It seems the logical conclusion would be that the ad wasn't actually an LDS ad. Perhaps another group trying to discredit it.

Information above. Logic? naw that is what the questions and answer were about. LDS have phrases they use particular to them. "Heavenly Father" instead of God.

LDS aren't the only people who say 'Heavenly Father'. Do you still have the phone number? Do you have any information about the actual commercial?

Why do you think the LDS would run an ad with a phone number, then pretend that they aren't LDS?

What are the free publications?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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2/25/2012 3:17:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/24/2012 3:25:05 PM, logicrules wrote:
There i a new TV ad giving a phone number for publication which are free. When you call they claim they are a publisher who i non profit. They say they are non denominational protestant. The tell you that Jesus is not God and Heavenly Father had many sons in old times. Satan was the brother of Jesus she said. When asked if she was LDS she said no, and then spouted more LDS propaganda about protestant denominations. She said they promulgated the bible. She claimed the name of the religion was Doer students but never spelled it.

Seems lying i an open LDS tool.

If they were LDS they would have claimed it proudly.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
logicrules
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2/25/2012 3:23:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/25/2012 3:17:25 PM, tyler90az wrote:
At 2/24/2012 3:25:05 PM, logicrules wrote:
There i a new TV ad giving a phone number for publication which are free. When you call they claim they are a publisher who i non profit. They say they are non denominational protestant. The tell you that Jesus is not God and Heavenly Father had many sons in old times. Satan was the brother of Jesus she said. When asked if she was LDS she said no, and then spouted more LDS propaganda about protestant denominations. She said they promulgated the bible. She claimed the name of the religion was Doer students but never spelled it.

Seems lying i an open LDS tool.

If they were LDS they would have claimed it proudly.

Gues you are out of the loop
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/25/2012 5:00:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Come on logic...

You can't tell us what the commercial was talking about. You can't tell us what the publications were. You can't tell us what the phone number was or who you were talking to. You can't discuss the rationality behind who it could have been...
Unless you are willing to substantiate your claims in any way, I am inclined to think one of the following applies:

1: You were mistaken, it didn't claim to be an LDS commercial at all.
2: You were dreaming.
3: You are trolling/lying.
4: It's another group trying to discredit the LDS church.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/25/2012 5:03:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"I spoke to somebody today who said they weren't LDS, but they were a not-for-profit publisher, and a non-denominational protestant religion called the Doers.

Those dam Mormons are at it again!!!"

Seriously logic... really?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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2/26/2012 3:36:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/25/2012 12:34:51 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/25/2012 12:30:26 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 2/25/2012 12:24:39 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/24/2012 3:25:05 PM, logicrules wrote:
There i a new TV ad giving a phone number for publication which are free. When you call they claim they are a publisher who i non profit. They say they are non denominational protestant. The tell you that Jesus is not God and Heavenly Father had many sons in old times. Satan was the brother of Jesus she said. When asked if she was LDS she said no, and then spouted more LDS propaganda about protestant denominations. She said they promulgated the bible. She claimed the name of the religion was Doer students but never spelled it.

Seems lying i an open LDS tool.

So... the LDS church is running ads with a number, and the people that answer say they aren't LDS?

Do you have the phone number still, or any information on the commercial?

It seems the logical conclusion would be that the ad wasn't actually an LDS ad. Perhaps another group trying to discredit it.

Information above. Logic? naw that is what the questions and answer were about. LDS have phrases they use particular to them. "Heavenly Father" instead of God.

LDS aren't the only people who say 'Heavenly Father'. Do you still have the phone number? Do you have any information about the actual commercial?

Why do you think the LDS would run an ad with a phone number, then pretend that they aren't LDS?

What are the free publications?

I do not have the number, and even if I did I do not participate in dissemination of such as it violates my principles. As to your other nonsense, you are incorrect at every level. Mormons are the only cult that can not say God.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/26/2012 4:08:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 3:36:38 AM, logicrules wrote:
I do not have the number, and even if I did I do not participate in dissemination of such as it violates my principles. As to your other nonsense, you are incorrect at every level. Mormons are the only cult that can not say God.

I'm disappointed in you logic... You make wild claims, that contradict themselves, against a religion that, in all honesty, does nothing but good in the world. You absolutely refuse to back up your claims, or even go into any form of detail about them.

You refuse to answer simple questions. You state 'you are incorrect at every level', again with no basis, no substantiation, no substance, no nothing. I was hoping that someone with logic in their username would act more logically and maturely.

FYI, I have personally heard non-LDS use the term 'Heavenly Father', and no amount of you saying I'm wrong will change that fact.

Nor do LDS avoid the word 'God'.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/26/2012 4:27:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
You're never going to believe this. I was watching TV and I saw an ad from logicrules. It said to call a number to have your electric bill paid for you. I called and logicrules answered, but he said his name was Paul. I asked him to pay my electric bill and logicrules started yelling at me and saying he was going to kill my dog. I asked again if I was talking to logicrules and logicrules lied and said it wasn't him who I was talking to but I know it was him... I can't believe he would lie like that and be so mean.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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2/26/2012 5:26:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 4:27:51 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
You're never going to believe this. I was watching TV and I saw an ad from logicrules. It said to call a number to have your electric bill paid for you. I called and logicrules answered, but he said his name was Paul. I asked him to pay my electric bill and logicrules started yelling at me and saying he was going to kill my dog. I asked again if I was talking to logicrules and logicrules lied and said it wasn't him who I was talking to but I know it was him... I can't believe he would lie like that and be so mean.

Gee, so creative. I just can not stand it. I guess it is true what cognitive researchers say. The human brain does not fully develop till age 30.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/26/2012 8:22:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 5:26:20 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 2/26/2012 4:27:51 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
You're never going to believe this. I was watching TV and I saw an ad from logicrules. It said to call a number to have your electric bill paid for you. I called and logicrules answered, but he said his name was Paul. I asked him to pay my electric bill and logicrules started yelling at me and saying he was going to kill my dog. I asked again if I was talking to logicrules and logicrules lied and said it wasn't him who I was talking to but I know it was him... I can't believe he would lie like that and be so mean.

Gee, so creative. I just can not stand it. I guess it is true what cognitive researchers say. The human brain does not fully develop till age 30.

Asking didn't get you to discuss your claim, so I thought I would try baiting.

Oh well. Thanks for starting a worthless topic.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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2/26/2012 10:25:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 8:22:59 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 5:26:20 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 2/26/2012 4:27:51 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
You're never going to believe this. I was watching TV and I saw an ad from logicrules. It said to call a number to have your electric bill paid for you. I called and logicrules answered, but he said his name was Paul. I asked him to pay my electric bill and logicrules started yelling at me and saying he was going to kill my dog. I asked again if I was talking to logicrules and logicrules lied and said it wasn't him who I was talking to but I know it was him... I can't believe he would lie like that and be so mean.

Gee, so creative. I just can not stand it. I guess it is true what cognitive researchers say. The human brain does not fully develop till age 30.

Asking didn't get you to discuss your claim, so I thought I would try baiting.

Oh well. Thanks for starting a worthless topic.

LOL perhaps you are LDS, that would explain your aversion to reason and fact as well as your need to assert one to be a liar. Feel free to share your study of religions and/or theology, I doubt youhave studies either.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/26/2012 10:37:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 10:25:57 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 2/26/2012 8:22:59 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 5:26:20 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 2/26/2012 4:27:51 AM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
You're never going to believe this. I was watching TV and I saw an ad from logicrules. It said to call a number to have your electric bill paid for you. I called and logicrules answered, but he said his name was Paul. I asked him to pay my electric bill and logicrules started yelling at me and saying he was going to kill my dog. I asked again if I was talking to logicrules and logicrules lied and said it wasn't him who I was talking to but I know it was him... I can't believe he would lie like that and be so mean.

Gee, so creative. I just can not stand it. I guess it is true what cognitive researchers say. The human brain does not fully develop till age 30.

Asking didn't get you to discuss your claim, so I thought I would try baiting.

Oh well. Thanks for starting a worthless topic.

LOL perhaps you are LDS, that would explain your aversion to reason and fact as well as your need to assert one to be a liar. Feel free to share your study of religions and/or theology, I doubt youhave studies either.

I'm not LDS, but I respect them. You started this topic but have refused to actually discuss it. What was the point?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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2/26/2012 11:01:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is all very clearly a campaign to warm people up to electing a certain Mormon as president.

It's political propaganda.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/26/2012 12:27:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 11:01:13 AM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
This is all very clearly a campaign to warm people up to electing a certain Mormon as president.

It's political propaganda.

No, this is logicrules acting stupidly. He claims it's an LDS ad, but it has a number to a non-denominational(LDS is a denomination) protestant(LDS aren't protestant), and they said they weren't LDS.

There is no link to LDS in anything logic said.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
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2/26/2012 12:42:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why do religions need to advertise anyway? Hasn't God got sufficient bandwidth to reach those who 'he truly loves? Or is it about spiritual commercialism - "Save one soul and get an extra soul saved free!"
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/26/2012 12:47:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 12:42:41 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
Why do religions need to advertise anyway? Hasn't God got sufficient bandwidth to reach those who 'he truly loves? Or is it about spiritual commercialism - "Save one soul and get an extra soul saved free!"

If God personally did everything for us, what would be the point?

I think of it this way: We're all trying to live our lives the best we can, and sometimes we all need help. When religious organizations try to spread their message, they often come across these people and are able to support them and help them through a rough time.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
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2/26/2012 2:31:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 12:47:17 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:42:41 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
Why do religions need to advertise anyway? Hasn't God got sufficient bandwidth to reach those who 'he truly loves? Or is it about spiritual commercialism - "Save one soul and get an extra soul saved free!"

If God personally did everything for us, what would be the point?

I think of it this way: We're all trying to live our lives the best we can, and sometimes we all need help. When religious organizations try to spread their message, they often come across these people and are able to support them and help them through a rough time.

Whilst selling them the Jesus drug.

"Forget Es. Try this Big J. It'll make you so much happier."

What people deserve are real solutions to real problems.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/26/2012 2:32:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 2:31:17 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:47:17 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:42:41 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
Why do religions need to advertise anyway? Hasn't God got sufficient bandwidth to reach those who 'he truly loves? Or is it about spiritual commercialism - "Save one soul and get an extra soul saved free!"

If God personally did everything for us, what would be the point?

I think of it this way: We're all trying to live our lives the best we can, and sometimes we all need help. When religious organizations try to spread their message, they often come across these people and are able to support them and help them through a rough time.

Whilst selling them the Jesus drug.

"Forget Es. Try this Big J. It'll make you so much happier."

What people deserve are real solutions to real problems.

What about people who have gotten real solutions to real problems through 'the Jesus drug'?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
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2/26/2012 4:48:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 2:32:30 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 2:31:17 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:47:17 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:42:41 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
Why do religions need to advertise anyway? Hasn't God got sufficient bandwidth to reach those who 'he truly loves? Or is it about spiritual commercialism - "Save one soul and get an extra soul saved free!"

If God personally did everything for us, what would be the point?

I think of it this way: We're all trying to live our lives the best we can, and sometimes we all need help. When religious organizations try to spread their message, they often come across these people and are able to support them and help them through a rough time.

Whilst selling them the Jesus drug.

"Forget Es. Try this Big J. It'll make you so much happier."

What people deserve are real solutions to real problems.

What about people who have gotten real solutions to real problems through 'the Jesus drug'?

They won't be allowed to take any credit for their own accomplishments. Jesus takes all the credit. It's called "disempowerment"
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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2/26/2012 4:51:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 4:48:46 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 2:32:30 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 2:31:17 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:47:17 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:42:41 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
Why do religions need to advertise anyway? Hasn't God got sufficient bandwidth to reach those who 'he truly loves? Or is it about spiritual commercialism - "Save one soul and get an extra soul saved free!"

If God personally did everything for us, what would be the point?

I think of it this way: We're all trying to live our lives the best we can, and sometimes we all need help. When religious organizations try to spread their message, they often come across these people and are able to support them and help them through a rough time.

Whilst selling them the Jesus drug.

"Forget Es. Try this Big J. It'll make you so much happier."

What people deserve are real solutions to real problems.

What about people who have gotten real solutions to real problems through 'the Jesus drug'?

They won't be allowed to take any credit for their own accomplishments. Jesus takes all the credit. It's called "disempowerment"

They shouldn't take credit for things Christ does for them, but nothing in Christianity is dis-empowering.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
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2/26/2012 5:01:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 4:51:23 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 4:48:46 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 2:32:30 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 2:31:17 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:47:17 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:42:41 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
Why do religions need to advertise anyway? Hasn't God got sufficient bandwidth to reach those who 'he truly loves? Or is it about spiritual commercialism - "Save one soul and get an extra soul saved free!"

If God personally did everything for us, what would be the point?

I think of it this way: We're all trying to live our lives the best we can, and sometimes we all need help. When religious organizations try to spread their message, they often come across these people and are able to support them and help them through a rough time.

Whilst selling them the Jesus drug.

"Forget Es. Try this Big J. It'll make you so much happier."

What people deserve are real solutions to real problems.

What about people who have gotten real solutions to real problems through 'the Jesus drug'?

They won't be allowed to take any credit for their own accomplishments. Jesus takes all the credit. It's called "disempowerment"

They shouldn't take credit for things Christ does for them, but nothing in Christianity is dis-empowering.

Except that everything good comes from the God of the Bible and everything bad comes from us, apparently.

Btw no Christian has shown any good evidence to me that Jesus' consciousness survived death (assuming Jesus even existed and was killed) and is inflencing people today.

The most likely expanation IMO is a mass psycholgical virus whereby people have given up on themselves to be able to sort out their own issues and instead imagine a character from history is on their side as a ghost or something. Scary stuff!
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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2/26/2012 5:11:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 5:01:31 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 4:51:23 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 4:48:46 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 2:32:30 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 2:31:17 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:47:17 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:42:41 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
Why do religions need to advertise anyway? Hasn't God got sufficient bandwidth to reach those who 'he truly loves? Or is it about spiritual commercialism - "Save one soul and get an extra soul saved free!"

If God personally did everything for us, what would be the point?

I think of it this way: We're all trying to live our lives the best we can, and sometimes we all need help. When religious organizations try to spread their message, they often come across these people and are able to support them and help them through a rough time.

Whilst selling them the Jesus drug.

"Forget Es. Try this Big J. It'll make you so much happier."

What people deserve are real solutions to real problems.

What about people who have gotten real solutions to real problems through 'the Jesus drug'?

They won't be allowed to take any credit for their own accomplishments. Jesus takes all the credit. It's called "disempowerment"

They shouldn't take credit for things Christ does for them, but nothing in Christianity is dis-empowering.

Except that everything good comes from the God of the Bible and everything bad comes from us, apparently.

Btw no Christian has shown any good evidence to me that Jesus' consciousness survived death (assuming Jesus even existed and was killed) and is inflencing people today.

The most likely expanation IMO is a mass psycholgical virus whereby people have given up on themselves to be able to sort out their own issues and instead imagine a character from history is on their side as a ghost or something. Scary stuff!

You will never see Good evidence, no matter who shows it to you.
MyVoiceInYourHead
Posts: 260
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2/26/2012 6:59:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 2/26/2012 5:11:03 PM, logicrules wrote:
At 2/26/2012 5:01:31 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 4:51:23 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 4:48:46 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 2:32:30 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 2:31:17 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:47:17 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 2/26/2012 12:42:41 PM, MyVoiceInYourHead wrote:
Why do religions need to advertise anyway? Hasn't God got sufficient bandwidth to reach those who 'he truly loves? Or is it about spiritual commercialism - "Save one soul and get an extra soul saved free!"

If God personally did everything for us, what would be the point?

I think of it this way: We're all trying to live our lives the best we can, and sometimes we all need help. When religious organizations try to spread their message, they often come across these people and are able to support them and help them through a rough time.

Whilst selling them the Jesus drug.

"Forget Es. Try this Big J. It'll make you so much happier."

What people deserve are real solutions to real problems.

What about people who have gotten real solutions to real problems through 'the Jesus drug'?

They won't be allowed to take any credit for their own accomplishments. Jesus takes all the credit. It's called "disempowerment"

They shouldn't take credit for things Christ does for them, but nothing in Christianity is dis-empowering.

Except that everything good comes from the God of the Bible and everything bad comes from us, apparently.

Btw no Christian has shown any good evidence to me that Jesus' consciousness survived death (assuming Jesus even existed and was killed) and is inflencing people today.

The most likely expanation IMO is a mass psycholgical virus whereby people have given up on themselves to be able to sort out their own issues and instead imagine a character from history is on their side as a ghost or something. Scary stuff!

You will never see Good evidence, no matter who shows it to you.

That's right, FaithRules, because the good evidence doesn't exist. It's a concept in your head.