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Mormon Soteriology

joneszj
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3/6/2012 7:10:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have oft harkened unto a many peoples tongue it be uttered of the Mormon soteriology: "Do your best; Jesus does the rest". But alas, if I be truly and utterly honest with myself I have not the slightest inclination to how Mormon doctrine teaches a man be saved. So, if anyone would be so kind as to expound this mystery for me I would be much obliged.
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/6/2012 9:06:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 7:10:05 AM, joneszj wrote:
I have oft harkened unto a many peoples tongue it be uttered of the Mormon soteriology: "Do your best; Jesus does the rest". But alas, if I be truly and utterly honest with myself I have not the slightest inclination to how Mormon doctrine teaches a man be saved. So, if anyone would be so kind as to expound this mystery for me I would be much obliged.

LDS teaches that by obedience and your good works are you 'raised", not saved by the fundamentalist Christian standard. In Pearl of great Price Smith talks about Heavenly Father giving all who are "good" their own kingdoms as he gave Jesus. It is way out there...Now, good works is not charity, it is doing the will of the prophets, the quarum of 12 and the president of LDS. Women do charity in LDS, even according to their web page. I know it sounds like I am spinniing....but I am not, that is what LDS teaches.
yoda878
Posts: 902
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3/6/2012 9:25:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 7:10:05 AM, joneszj wrote:
I have oft harkened unto a many peoples tongue it be uttered of the Mormon soteriology: "Do your best; Jesus does the rest". But alas, if I be truly and utterly honest with myself I have not the slightest inclination to how Mormon doctrine teaches a man be saved. So, if anyone would be so kind as to expound this mystery for me I would be much obliged.

First, all mortals have been saved from the permanence of death through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22).

As to salvation from sin and the consequences of sin, our answer to the question of whether or not we have been saved is "yes, but with conditions." Our third article of faith declares our belief:

"We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel" (A of F 1:3).

We are always talking about the atonement of Christ.
He suffered for our sins, we do believe that we do have to be obedient to the commandments. If we are not we ask our Father for forgiveness. Pure love of Christ is charity, that's why the church is one of the biggest charity's in the world. Goes to help people all over the world.
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yoda878
Posts: 902
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3/6/2012 9:36:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:06:51 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:10:05 AM, joneszj wrote:
I have oft harkened unto a many peoples tongue it be uttered of the Mormon soteriology: "Do your best; Jesus does the rest". But alas, if I be truly and utterly honest with myself I have not the slightest inclination to how Mormon doctrine teaches a man be saved. So, if anyone would be so kind as to expound this mystery for me I would be much obliged.

LDS teaches that by obedience and your good works are you 'raised", not saved by the fundamentalist Christian standard. In Pearl of great Price Smith talks about Heavenly Father giving all who are "good" their own kingdoms as he gave Jesus. It is way out there...Now, good works is not charity, it is doing the will of the prophets, the quarum of 12 and the president of LDS. Women do charity in LDS, even according to their web page. I know it sounds like I am spinniing....but I am not, that is what LDS teaches.

You are always saying things with out knowledge, and when i correct you you spout off more nonsense. I have really tried to answer you and correct your miss information. It would help if you asked the question instead of speaking as a know.
Good works is Charity it is to your friend, people who are going through a hard time, the guy down the street you don't even know. The little old lady that needs help to carry out her trash. What ever you are capable of doing you should do it. If its just a smile you should do it.
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logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/6/2012 11:05:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:36:09 AM, yoda878 wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:06:51 AM, logicrules wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:10:05 AM, joneszj wrote:
I have oft harkened unto a many peoples tongue it be uttered of the Mormon soteriology: "Do your best; Jesus does the rest". But alas, if I be truly and utterly honest with myself I have not the slightest inclination to how Mormon doctrine teaches a man be saved. So, if anyone would be so kind as to expound this mystery for me I would be much obliged.

LDS teaches that by obedience and your good works are you 'raised", not saved by the fundamentalist Christian standard. In Pearl of great Price Smith talks about Heavenly Father giving all who are "good" their own kingdoms as he gave Jesus. It is way out there...Now, good works is not charity, it is doing the will of the prophets, the quarum of 12 and the president of LDS. Women do charity in LDS, even according to their web page. I know it sounds like I am spinniing....but I am not, that is what LDS teaches.

You are always saying things with out knowledge, and when i correct you you spout off more nonsense. I have really tried to answer you and correct your miss information. It would help if you asked the question instead of speaking as a know.
Good works is Charity it is to your friend, people who are going through a hard time, the guy down the street you don't even know. The little old lady that needs help to carry out her trash. What ever you are capable of doing you should do it. If its just a smile you should do it.

Your corrections are LDS nonsesens. eg. "permanence of death". you stated that is what you are saved from. So your idea of saved and Christan saved are 2 different things. Unlike you, I read. I have actually questioned LDS teaching with LDS missioinaries. As to you "Good Works" and Chrity. If this were true, there would not be special recognition to a 2 day event involving priesthood holders. Two days of chrarity would not qualify for special mention. I use LDS publications and "theology" not the verbosity of mormonspeak. See, it is not in doing what you decide you are capable of, it is in doing what you think you are not capable of, that is a big difference.

Joseph Smith was brought before Judge Albert Neeley on charges of money digging, using a "peep stone" to locate buried treasures for hire, according to Court records of Chenango County, State of New York, People vs Joseph Smith, "The Glass Looker." March 20, 1826. NB after Smith claims he had his vision, but before he tells anyone.
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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3/6/2012 11:06:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 9:25:44 AM, yoda878 wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:10:05 AM, joneszj wrote:
I have oft harkened unto a many peoples tongue it be uttered of the Mormon soteriology: "Do your best; Jesus does the rest". But alas, if I be truly and utterly honest with myself I have not the slightest inclination to how Mormon doctrine teaches a man be saved. So, if anyone would be so kind as to expound this mystery for me I would be much obliged.

First, all mortals have been saved from the permanence of death through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22).

As to salvation from sin and the consequences of sin, our answer to the question of whether or not we have been saved is "yes, but with conditions." Our third article of faith declares our belief:

"We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel" (A of F 1:3).

We are always talking about the atonement of Christ.
He suffered for our sins, we do believe that we do have to be obedient to the commandments. If we are not we ask our Father for forgiveness. Pure love of Christ is charity, that's why the church is one of the biggest charity's in the world. Goes to help people all over the world.

Blessings upon blessing be upon thou good sir. Thoust doth attempted indeed with thine own knowledge to aide me in my journey of knowledge and enlightenment. But I must confess with great perplexity and shame that thou poignant answer to my query has only begotten more questions from my being. Would thou be so kind good sir as to explain to me what exactly be the 'laws and ordinances of the Gospel'? Is perfect obedience required of men to the laws and ordinances of the gospel?
logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/6/2012 11:40:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Read....every single LDS support statement begins with OBEDIENCE. Hnce obedience. Ordinances is just LDS, they make it up and put it in a book. Heck, Smith re wrote the bible. Words used by LDS do not mean the same thing they mean to everyone else. There are no Ordinances in the bible, or any of the four Gospels. In Christ the old law is abolished, no diet or drink restrictions. Obedience ot the quarum and the president.....who do not understand the creed, s they couldn't possibly follow that upon which the Creed is based.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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3/6/2012 1:38:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Blessings upon blessing be upon thou good sir. Thoust doth attempted indeed with thine own knowledge to aide me in my journey of knowledge and enlightenment. But I must confess with great perplexity and shame that thou poignant answer to my query has only begotten more questions from my being. Would thou be so kind good sir as to explain to me what exactly be the 'laws and ordinances of the Gospel'? Is perfect obedience required of men to the laws and ordinances of the gospel?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes ALL people are saved through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Saved as in, beat the bands of mortal death.

The saved you are thinking of is reach Heaven. One thing about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that hardly anybody struggles with is that our doctrine does not automatically deem a majority of people who walk this earth to "hell". We believe very few people go to "hell", only the devils minions and the sons of perdition. That makes up, in my mind, that 99.9% will enter some form of Heaven.

The ordinances of the gospel are Baptism, receiving the Holy Ghost, the Sacrament to renew baptismal convenants and Temple ordinances. Other then those the only requirement is that you have a broken heart and contrite spirit, ie you repent of sins.

Perfect obedience to God is definitely recommended, just like in any religion. However, God is a loving God and sent his son Jesus Christ to Atone for our sins. Therefore, perfect obedience is not a requirement.

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every athought to the bobedience of Christ;
2 Cor 10:5

21 ¶Not every one that asaith unto me, bLord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that cdoeth the dwill of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I awill go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no bcommandments unto the children of men, save he shall cprepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.
1 Nephi 3:7

10 I, the Lord, am abound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.
D&C 82:10

Talk:
http://www.lds.org...

Talk 2:
http://www.lds.org...
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
yoda878
Posts: 902
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3/6/2012 1:40:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 11:06:46 AM, joneszj wrote:
At 3/6/2012 9:25:44 AM, yoda878 wrote:
At 3/6/2012 7:10:05 AM, joneszj wrote:
I have oft harkened unto a many peoples tongue it be uttered of the Mormon soteriology: "Do your best; Jesus does the rest". But alas, if I be truly and utterly honest with myself I have not the slightest inclination to how Mormon doctrine teaches a man be saved. So, if anyone would be so kind as to expound this mystery for me I would be much obliged.

First, all mortals have been saved from the permanence of death through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:22).

As to salvation from sin and the consequences of sin, our answer to the question of whether or not we have been saved is "yes, but with conditions." Our third article of faith declares our belief:

"We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel" (A of F 1:3).

We are always talking about the atonement of Christ.
He suffered for our sins, we do believe that we do have to be obedient to the commandments. If we are not we ask our Father for forgiveness. Pure love of Christ is charity, that's why the church is one of the biggest charity's in the world. Goes to help people all over the world.

Blessings upon blessing be upon thou good sir. Thoust doth attempted indeed with thine own knowledge to aide me in my journey of knowledge and enlightenment. But I must confess with great perplexity and shame that thou poignant answer to my query has only begotten more questions from my being. Would thou be so kind good sir as to explain to me what exactly be the 'laws and ordinances of the Gospel'? Is perfect obedience required of men to the laws and ordinances of the gospel?

Well their is the Ten commandments that were gave to Moses and his people.
1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me (Exodus 20:3).
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image (Exodus 20:4).
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain (Exodus 20:7).
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy (Exodus 20:8).
5. Honour thy father and thy mother (Exodus 20:12).
6. Thou shalt not kill (Exodus 20:13).
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery (Exodus 20:14).
8. Thou shalt not steal (Exodus 20:15).
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness (Exodus 20:16).
10. Thou shalt not covet (Exodus 20:17).


"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets(Matthew 22:36-40).
The church teaches this vigorously, to love and honer God and to love one another, as Jesus does.

Baptism and Confirmation
Being "born of water and of the Holy Ghost" are the first steps we take on the road to eternal life.
One of the purposes of baptism is to symbolically wash away our sins, but even Jesus Christ, who lived a perfect life, was baptized. Jesus was baptized because it is a commandment and he wanted to provide a perfect example of obedience to Heavenly Father's divine guidance

Obey the Word of Wisdom
The things we do and don't consume are some of the most visible markers of our faith, and they come from our belief that our bodies are precious gifts from God. We believe He has given us guidance about how best to take care of them. He revealed a law of health, called the Word of Wisdom, to Joseph Smith in 1833. The Word of Wisdom prohibits the drinking of alcohol, coffee and tea, and the use of tobacco. It also implies that we not use illegal drugs or abuse prescription drugs.

The Word of Wisdom also encourages us to eat plenty of the fruits and vegetables that are in season, plenty of grains and a moderate amount of meat. It reminds us to eat these things "with prudence and thanksgiving" (Doctrine and Covenants 89:11). Besides this explicit guidance, the Church teaches us to generally lead healthy lives by getting enough sleep, exercising regularly and avoiding extreme diets. The Word of Wisdom shows us that God is concerned with our physical health as well as our spiritual health. By discouraging the use of things that can be habit-forming, it emphasizes how important our free will is. When we are addicted to something like smoking or drinking—and this is also true of any other addictive behavior—we become subject to that thing. We have a diminished ability to make our own decisions and control our own lives

Study the Scriptures
Prophets write the word of God in the scriptures, which teach us how to fulfill the plan of happiness

Pray Often
Through prayer we can draw closer to God, get answers to our questions and find comfort

Live the Law of Chastity
The power and holiness of sexual intimacy requires careful protection so it can be a source of joy and closeness
The power of procreation is a sacred part of God's plan. It's an expression of love and allows husband and wife to create life. God has commanded that this power and privilege of a sexual relationship only exist between a man and woman who are legally married. This commandment is called the law of chastity. It requires abstinence from sex before marriage and complete fidelity and loyalty to our spouses after marriage. God expects us to keep our thoughts clean and be modest in our dress, speech, and actions (Matthew 5:27–28). We must also avoid viewing pornography and engaging in homosexual relations.
We understand that the principles of the law of chastity set The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints apart and may sound strict to the rest of the world, yet great blessings of peace, self-respect, and self-control come from obeying this commandment

Obey and Honor the Law
Our faith in Jesus Christ makes us responsible active citizens

Intelligent Obedience

God does not want us to follow His divine guidance blindly or out of fear of punishment. He wants us to exercise intelligent obedience of our own free will. We need to gain our own witness, or belief, that the commandments really come from Him and help us live happier lives. To obtain this witness, we have to use faith. We have to have a real desire, and we have to be willing to do the work necessary to know these things.
In the Book of Mormon, Heavenly Father makes the following promise:
"When ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost." (Moroni 10:4)
We can know for ourselves that these things are true. When we know that something is true, we will want to live accordingly for the rest of our lives. The commandments won't feel like arbitrary rules from a detached God. They'll feel like divine guidance that helps us navigate the confusion of life on earth. We will see the benefits of following this guidance in our day-to-day lives and we will feel a stronger sense of peace and spirituality.

We do take all these very seriously, I fall short sometimes but I continue to to strive and better myself. Some people feel this is very strict, it does take time to follow but I do see that my life is better when I am following Gods commandments.
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yoda878
Posts: 902
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3/6/2012 1:58:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/6/2012 1:38:19 PM, tyler90az wrote:
Blessings upon blessing be upon thou good sir. Thoust doth attempted indeed with thine own knowledge to aide me in my journey of knowledge and enlightenment. But I must confess with great perplexity and shame that thou poignant answer to my query has only begotten more questions from my being. Would thou be so kind good sir as to explain to me what exactly be the 'laws and ordinances of the Gospel'? Is perfect obedience required of men to the laws and ordinances of the gospel?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believes ALL people are saved through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Saved as in, beat the bands of mortal death.

The saved you are thinking of is reach Heaven. One thing about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints that hardly anybody struggles with is that our doctrine does not automatically deem a majority of people who walk this earth to "hell". We believe very few people go to "hell", only the devils minions and the sons of perdition. That makes up, in my mind, that 99.9% will enter some form of Heaven.

The ordinances of the gospel are Baptism, receiving the Holy Ghost, the Sacrament to renew baptismal convenants and Temple ordinances. Other then those the only requirement is that you have a broken heart and contrite spirit, ie you repent of sins.

Perfect obedience to God is definitely recommended, just like in any religion. However, God is a loving God and sent his son Jesus Christ to Atone for our sins. Therefore, perfect obedience is not a requirement.

5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every athought to the bobedience of Christ;
2 Cor 10:5

21 ¶Not every one that asaith unto me, bLord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that cdoeth the dwill of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21

7 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, said unto my father: I awill go and do the things which the Lord hath commanded, for I know that the Lord giveth no bcommandments unto the children of men, save he shall cprepare a way for them that they may accomplish the thing which he commandeth them.
1 Nephi 3:7

10 I, the Lord, am abound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.
D&C 82:10

Talk:
http://www.lds.org...

Talk 2:
http://www.lds.org...





Thanks for answering his second question! :) I just realized I only answered the first of the two questions he asked.
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logicrules
Posts: 1,721
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3/6/2012 4:29:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Josiah Stowell hired Joseph and his father to help him search for buried treasure near Harmony, Pennsylvania. Joseph boarded with Isaac Hale, where he met his future bride, Emma Hale. 1825 October,,,,J. Smith the con man