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ya' gotta' understand this

gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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3/11/2012 4:05:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

God doesn't even exist, let alone being perfect..
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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3/11/2012 4:19:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

Awesome. I define a characteristic of perfection as a democratic leader. God isn't. If he can define what he is, then screw it, he can define himself into existence. In fact, I'm gonna start defining stuff into existence.

YOU! FLYING PIGS! I NAME YOU!
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Physik
Posts: 686
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3/11/2012 4:20:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

I saw this on the internet, but I thought I would try it myself.

I asked my parents; "Would you kill me if god told you too?"

It put them in a very uncomfortable position, as it conflicts with the morality most humans possess by default. Despite being very devout Catholics, they refused to say yes, because the very idea is disgusting and sociopathic (by their own admission).

However, they said no; thus admitting that a morality exists outside of their god.

So, random question; would you kill me if god told you too?
"Just don't let them dissuade you. Stick to your beliefs no matter what and you'll be fine." - ConservativePolitico, the guy that accused me of being close-minded.

"We didn't start slavery, they themselves started it. When the white man first got to Africa they had already enslaved themselves, they just capitalized on an opportunity." - ConservativePolitico

"The Bible to me is a history book and requires very little faith to believe in." - ConservativePolitico
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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3/11/2012 4:27:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

No one is saying that if he does exist, he doesnt have the power, or the ability. But it doesnt make it right.

Hitler and his army had the power and the ability to execute 6 million jews. Does it make it right? Of course not. The power, the ability to do so, doesnt give someone the right to do anything, and the moral, decent thing to do is to stand up to them and say "No you DONT have the right."
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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3/11/2012 5:07:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 4:05:36 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

God doesn't even exist, let alone being perfect.

very informative, good to see a deep thinker.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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3/11/2012 5:08:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 4:19:32 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

Awesome. I define a characteristic of perfection as a democratic leader. God isn't. If he can define what he is, then screw it, he can define himself into existence. In fact, I'm gonna start defining stuff into existence.

YOU! FLYING PIGS! I NAME YOU!

you have no right to "define" anything. . . therefore your point is invalid.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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3/11/2012 5:09:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 4:27:39 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

No one is saying that if he does exist, he doesnt have the power, or the ability. But it doesnt make it right.

Hitler and his army had the power and the ability to execute 6 million jews. Does it make it right? Of course not. The power, the ability to do so, doesnt give someone the right to do anything, and the moral, decent thing to do is to stand up to them and say "No you DONT have the right."

they had the power and ability but not the right. . . God does.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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3/11/2012 5:20:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself.:

Which is an unverified claim.

Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.:

If the Judeo-Christian God is perfect, does it make a lick of sense that he did a complete 180 on almost all accounts?

A few examples:

Old Testament: Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.
New Testament: Turn the other cheek.

Old Testament: Follow all the rules or risk damnation.
New Testament: Don't follow those silly rules!

If God is eternal and God is perfect, it stands to reason that God would be perfect all of the time, yet we can clearly read that the God of the Jews is markedly different than the God of the Christians... yet they are supposedly the same God, but contradict one another on MANY instances.

So, you were saying something about a perfect God...? Please continue.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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3/11/2012 5:33:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 5:20:28 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself.:

Which is an unverified claim.

Christians believe God is perfect. verified.

Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.:

If the Judeo-Christian God is perfect, does it make a lick of sense that he did a complete 180 on almost all accounts?

A few examples:

Old Testament: Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.
New Testament: Turn the other cheek.

Old Testament: Follow all the rules or risk damnation.
New Testament: Don't follow those silly rules!

Nothing on this earth is eternal, the Old Testament Law passed away and the New Testament law took its place. They both served/are serving their purpose.

If God is eternal and God is perfect, it stands to reason that God would be perfect all of the time, yet we can clearly read that the God of the Jews is markedly different than the God of the Christians... yet they are supposedly the same God, but contradict one another on MANY instances.

so our understanding of God is flawed, not God Himself

So, you were saying something about a perfect God...? Please continue.

yea, God is perfect.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
gr33k_fr33k5
Posts: 321
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3/11/2012 5:55:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would like to point out that I do not believe in biblical perfection. The Bible as we knw it is a flawed manuscript anyone arguing otherwise is sadly mistaken.
I am free, free indeed!

ignorance is bliss
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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3/11/2012 6:55:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

I just looked up perfect in the dictionary and didn't see any reference to God. Perhaps you could provide the resource you're using?
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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3/12/2012 1:36:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 5:09:09 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
At 3/11/2012 4:27:39 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

No one is saying that if he does exist, he doesnt have the power, or the ability. But it doesnt make it right.

Hitler and his army had the power and the ability to execute 6 million jews. Does it make it right? Of course not. The power, the ability to do so, doesnt give someone the right to do anything, and the moral, decent thing to do is to stand up to them and say "No you DONT have the right."

they had the power and ability but not the right. . . God does.

Why does God have this right?
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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3/12/2012 6:06:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 5:33:28 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
At 3/11/2012 5:20:28 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself.:

Which is an unverified claim.

Christians believe God is perfect. verified.:

Intelligence isn't your strong suit, I understand.

*throws gr33k_fr33k5 a box of crayons*

Nothing on this earth is eternal, the Old Testament Law passed away and the New Testament law took its place. They both served/are serving their purpose.:

Well, that's really funny considering Jesus himself said that none of the law would pass away until all things were accomplished. Do you just make it up as you go, or is that what some pastor told you?

so our understanding of God is flawed, not God Himself:

How could you know either way?

So, you were saying something about a perfect God...? Please continue.

yea, God is perfect.:

Maybe one of these days you'll actually have a real answer to the objections I posed to you.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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3/12/2012 6:10:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

Satan sold us the lie of 'you shall be like God, knowing right from wrong' etc..

Which is why people think they can judge God with a fallen and corrupt judgment..

Adams first act after eating the forbidden fruit was to judge Eve and God.
The Cross.. the Cross.
yoda878
Posts: 902
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3/14/2012 9:34:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/11/2012 3:32:46 PM, gr33k_fr33k5 wrote:
People claim that the God portrayed in the Bible is not "perfect." This is ridiculous seeing as God is what the idea of "perfect" is based off of. He defines perfect, and it is defined as Himself. Since He created all existence He determines what is right and wrong, therefore, regardless of how our puny human brains "see" things, we are wrong and He is right because it is as He says it is. Whether you like it or not He has that power, ability, and right.

I believe he is perfect but lets things happen for other reasons we don't know of them all.
Me
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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3/14/2012 9:37:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Would you kill your parents or your siblings or your children if God told you to?

Would you kill yourself if God told you to?