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Random thoughts on the hill! Jesus.

The_Fool_on_the_hill
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3/19/2012 1:22:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I was thinking about the Jesus story and it got me thinking. I mean he sounds like an overall nice guy. At least for 0 AD anyways. But his reasoning was still pretty flawed in respect to like a Socrates of some sort. Didn't really seem to have the best wisdom. I mean he said he was wise. But most unwise people say that all the time. I mean of all the infinite wisdom, a human form was the best idea he could muster up. I mean he is god. He can just pop up, in any way he wants. I shouldn't be able know of better ways to spread the message then him. That's seems contradictory to his omnipotent wisdom. I mean why go through the birthing process and all the growing up? It seems completely unnecessary. Why not just talk as a baby? That would have been a lot more convincing; it would have freaked me out into believing.

Why the soft miracles? I mean wine, fish and the blind, don't seem that big for a God. Why not something big and unforgettable. Like give the world a universal orgasm and scream "who your daddy?" across the sky. I am sure any random passer-by could come up with a better way than he did. Why not just ask? Why all the pride? What's with the un-original ideas? Why not come with whole new plot instead mending together scraps and ideas form other past religions. That's not very creative for greatest intelligent creator? Maybe I am bias but I think Shakespeare would have done a better job with the creativity.

I mean what's with the second Testament, how could he not get it right the first time. Well at least it was better than a tree talking to one person only; he must have been a real honest guy for people to trust that easy.
Whats with the change in the attitude anyway in the testament, he must be a woman. And it was just not that time of eternity. But again, why have the Cycle in the first place, I have seen its effects many times and it's all bloody evil. A little more on the devilish side aka the not- Good side anyways.

I mean the creator didn't really seem to have an understanding of the human anatomy he created, for he thought the mind was in the heart. That's where the idea of emotions being in the heart comes from. People then where ignorant about it. They have excuses, because they are not perfect. But God does not get off the hook that easy. I hate to give God sh!t but he should have known better.
Why only in one place in the world? Why not the native of Americans. Or the Inuit (aka ESKIMO for the completely Ignorant F*cks). Did he hate them? Is that why so many are gone? Why not China or India? I mean there lot more people there. The message would get to more people a little faster. Again, he should know better! Why does it just happen to be around the same place where the other testament was, just a little coincidental no?

How come Christian spread the most at our most ignorant in the dark ages where all knowledge had been burned and pillaged by barbarians leaving Europe completely stupid? I mean stupid to the point where Roman and old Greek ruins lay but they could even copy because they didn't understand the procedures they had to take the intelligently build structure apart apart and make little shitty huts instead of just repairing or imitating what was there, we are talking that stupid! That should set off some alarms….or then again maybe not. Anyways it was just a thought.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Buddamoose
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3/19/2012 1:46:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 1:22:12 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
I was thinking about the Jesus story and it got me thinking. I mean he sounds like an overall nice guy. At least for 0 AD anyways. But his reasoning was still pretty flawed in respect to like a Socrates of some sort. Didn't really seem to have the best wisdom. I mean he said he was wise. But most unwise people say that all the time. I mean of all the infinite wisdom, a human form was the best idea he could muster up. I mean he is god. He can just pop up, in any way he wants. I shouldn't be able know of better ways to spread the message then him. That's seems contradictory to his omnipotent wisdom. I mean why go through the birthing process and all the growing up? It seems completely unnecessary. Why not just talk as a baby? That would have been a lot more convincing; it would have freaked me out into believing.

It would have done no more to freak you out into believing than the other "miracles." because they were miracles performed how long ago? You just read about them and most likely deem that they did not happen at all.

Why the soft miracles? I mean wine, fish and the blind, don't seem that big for a God. Why not something big and unforgettable. Like give the world a universal orgasm and scream "who your daddy?" across the sky. I am sure any random passer-by could come up with a better way than he did. Why not just ask? Why all the pride? What's with the un-original ideas? Why not come with whole new plot instead mending together scraps and ideas form other past religions. That's not very creative for greatest intelligent creator? Maybe I am bias but I think Shakespeare would have done a better job with the creativity.

And by what basis do you judge that such a God should perform such acts? So that everyone may be saved? If that were the case then why not simply remove this life from the equation and just have every soul in heaven as is, no mortal life necessary.

I mean what's with the second Testament, how could he not get it right the first time. Well at least it was better than a tree talking to one person only; he must have been a real honest guy for people to trust that easy.

Whats with the change in the attitude anyway in the testament, he must be a woman. And it was just not that time of eternity. But again, why have the Cycle in the first place, I have seen its effects many times and it's all bloody evil. A little more on the devilish side aka the not- Good side anyways.


A good question. In my opinion and from what I have read the Old Testament god was more of a "unbiased and fair" god. If you screwed up too bad you were gettin punished. The new testament is a much nicer one. In which we essentially get a "free pass(to an extent, its expected that once a sin is commited that it wont really be repeated ad nauseum)" for our sins as long as we seek forgiveness from the Lord for those sins.

I mean the creator didn't really seem to have an understanding of the human anatomy he created, for he thought the mind was in the heart. That's where the idea of emotions being in the heart comes from. People then where ignorant about it. They have excuses, because they are not perfect. But God does not get off the hook that easy. I hate to give God sh!t but he should have known better.

Again if he had wanted to make us perfect there would be no purpose for a "mortal" life. God loved us enough to give us free will and the ability to do what we choose to. I would consider forcing someone to act in a way they do not wish to be a much worse offense than allowing them to decide what is best for themselves. Think of it as a parent-child relationship, as a parent you may know what your child is doing is not a good idea, but you allow them to so they can learn from their mistakes.

Why only in one place in the world? Why not the native of Americans. Or the Inuit (aka ESKIMO for the completely Ignorant F*cks). Did he hate them? Is that why so many are gone? Why not China or India? I mean there lot more people there. The message would get to more people a little faster. Again, he should know better! Why does it just happen to be around the same place where the other testament was, just a little coincidental no?

Not coincidental at all when you factor in that it was an area populated with Jewish tribes(God's chosen people) and He sent his son to make a New Covenant with humanity. Why would you expect that he should send a messiah to each place where there is a culture on Earth? We have done a sufficient job of spreading the word of God throughout the globe ourselves.

How come Christian spread the most at our most ignorant in the dark ages where all knowledge had been burned and pillaged by barbarians leaving Europe completely stupid? I mean stupid to the point where Roman and old Greek ruins lay but they could even copy because they didn't understand the procedures they had to take the intelligently build structure apart apart and make little shitty huts instead of just repairing or imitating what was there, we are talking that stupid! That should set off some alarms….or then again maybe not. Anyways it was just a thought.

Have you seen some of the architecture of "medieval" times?(Gothic etc.) Its quite beautiful and very artistic. The "huts" you speak of were as such because wealth was not exactly spread around to everyone. The peasants could really only afford to live in such dwellings as it was really what they could make themselves. And I'm not quite following you on the "most ignorant" part. By what basis do you say this? The sciences themselves may not have come far, but many monks worked tirelessly their whole lives transcribing old writings so they could be preserved. Also keep in mind that the printing press was not invented yet so literary works were not widely available. Which was pretty much the same situation in Greece/Rome.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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3/19/2012 1:46:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ovell very good questions tho, definitely some points to ponder :P
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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3/19/2012 1:47:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 1:46:44 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
Ovell very good questions tho, definitely some points to ponder :P

*Ovell= Overall
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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3/19/2012 2:52:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: Buddamoose you got to be kidding me. .. humour hahaa.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
GenesisCreation
Posts: 496
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3/19/2012 3:10:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 2:52:31 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: Buddamoose you got to be kidding me. .. humour hahaa.

Jesus Christ is the highest personality in philosophy. That's just my personal opinion.

I do enjoy your question concerning the limited stage on which he provided miracles.

I would ask the fool a question.

What's the purpose of faith, when knowledge becomes absolute?

Let's assume that God has a plan and it's design is a mystery to us. Let us also assume that faith is subject of the plan. Would it not be inherently destructive to the concept of faith to promote signs and wonders on an extraordinary scale?

Your question assumes that we are the goal or that God needs us on some level.
What if the purpose of the plan is the glory of God?
What glorifies God more?
Worshipping God when he gives you stuff to draw you in? or
Worshipping God even when you suffer?
Um....You've got a log in your eye.
"I would be suspicious of an argument without any concessions." - John Dickson
Buddamoose
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3/19/2012 3:24:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 2:52:31 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: Buddamoose you got to be kidding me. .. humour hahaa.

no reason for laughing at the response, take it or leave it.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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3/19/2012 5:27:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Moose: It would have done no more to freak you out into believing than the other "miracles." because they were miracles performed how long ago? You just read about them and most likely deem that they did not happen at all.

The Fool: Buddamoose . You're so naive.

The Fool: That is the whole point, that none of it makes sense at all. There is no point in making creatures and then punishing them for not doing what you want. Testing them would be just testing your ability to create beings. It makes no sense to make creatures that need to be saved. That would be some evil Joke.
Moose: If that were the case then why not simply remove this life from the equation and just have every soul in heaven as is, no mortal life necessary.

The Fool: That is exactly what I am talking if it were true it makes god completely retarded.

Moose:: A good question. In my opinion and from what I have read the Old Testament god was more of a "unbiased and fair" god.

The Fool: No Moose! Those are bad morals! We should be good because it's GOOD. I am moral because I care about people. I feel good when I do something nice for someone. I don't do it to avoid being punished. I am punished inside when I hurt someone, especially when it's unjustified. If I really relied on some book to know what is morally right, it would mean I have no morals. That is the bible makes people evil, because it tells people they are bad by nature, and then they start to actually believe it. This makes them able to justify hate, deception and do evil things, because after all they are sinful humans anyways right? Noooo! It makes people cold inside. As long as they belief they are doing something in Gods favour they can do the most evil atrocities and thinks it's okay because it's for god. It's not okay. If god is good then that's not god.

The Fool: Know kidding, because priests knew if people had sinned they would not join the club. The church would use this to form armies of people who did evil, that wanted to still go to heaven. They would tell them if they fight for them they would be forgiven by God.

Moose: The "huts" you speak of were as such because wealth was not exactly spread around to everyone.

The Fool: Moose this is nonsense you don't know your history. They are not going to tell you all of the bad things. I am talking about THE DARK AGES. They are dark because there is not a lot of information. When the Roman empire fell, the barbarians who were ignorance, burned and destroyed all the books. Because they didn't understand them, all the knowledge was lost and there was a lot of suffering. But it was kept in Arab countries and that is when Islam started to flourish because they had all the philosophy and books. Europe doesn't' get that information back until the Renaissance. That is why its called that because we were re acquainted with our lost knowledge and then we started to advance again which sets up the modern science and the age of enlightenment, where secularization comes about.

The Fool: you have to remember a major function of religion back then was to control the population, to keep them together. It was normal to make myths for this very purpose. Remember there was no education then. So religious was easier to get people to act together. Unfortunately it worked to well. And now we stuck with it.

Moose: Not coincidental at all when you factor in that it was an area populated with Jewish tribes(God's chosen people) and He sent his son to make a New Covenant with humanity.
The Fool: This begs the question. They are chosen for nonsense reason. It doesn't make sense. All the monotheistic religion comes from the same place. You have to remember a major function of religion back then was to control the population, to keep them together. It was normal to make myths for this very purpose. Remember there was no education then. So religious was easier to get people to act together. Unfortunately it worked to well. And now we stuck with it. That why they want faith, because if you really think about it rationally you will realize it's all non-sense.

Moose: Why would you expect that he should send a messiah to each place where there is a culture on Earth? Have done a sufficient job of spreading the word of God throughout the globe ourselves.
The Fool: Moose this doesn't make sense. If he is god why even bother with such nonsense. If he is a good god we should expect the highest. There shouldn't even be any uncertainty the whole idea doesn't; make sense. It's been a horrible job. The only reason why we are developed is because relgion in the west where kick out of power by the age of reason. The age of enlightenment, the most progressive age we ever had, ever. Every advancement in Humanity is because of defying the church. Notice all countries that have religious based government have poverty and suffering. That is the religion prevented them from developing.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
XDebatorX
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3/19/2012 6:13:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Isa ibn maryam (Jesus son of Mary) never claimed divinity. Jesus definitely performed miracles such as healing the blind, lepers etc but he was not God. He was a prophet. In fact when we read the bible we find that Jesus never says "worship me" or "I am god". Verses in the bible prove otherwise.

==Book of Acts Chapter 17 Verse 31==
"Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

==Gospel of John Chapter 5 Verse 30 (Jesus Says)==
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

==Gospel of Mark Chapter 6 Verse 5==
"And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them."

Jesus was not all powerful and had finite power, so he could not be god, Mark 6:5 shows this. Jesus himself said he could do nothing without the will of God. The firsts acts verse listed shows that Jesus was an appointed messenger (a man) from God. It wouldn't make sense for God to send himself if Jesus was God right?
XDebatorX
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3/19/2012 6:13:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 6:13:00 PM, XDebatorX wrote:
Isa ibn maryam (Jesus son of Mary) never claimed divinity. Jesus definitely performed miracles such as healing the blind, lepers etc but he was not God. He was a prophet. In fact when we read the bible we find that Jesus never says "worship me" or "I am god". Verses in the bible prove otherwise.

==Book of Acts Chapter 17 Verse 31==
"Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

==Gospel of John Chapter 5 Verse 30 (Jesus Says)==
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

==Gospel of Mark Chapter 6 Verse 5==
"And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them."

Jesus was not all powerful and had finite power, so he could not be god, Mark 6:5 shows this. Jesus himself said he could do nothing without the will of God. The firsts acts verse listed shows that Jesus was an appointed messenger (a man) from God. It wouldn't make sense for God to send himself if Jesus was God right?

Sorry forgot to add my source for bible verses:
http://kingjamesbible.com...
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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3/19/2012 7:30:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 3:10:13 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
At 3/19/2012 2:52:31 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: Buddamoose you got to be kidding me. .. humour hahaa.

Jesus Christ is the highest personality in philosophy. That's just my personal opinion.

I do enjoy your question concerning the limited stage on which he provided miracles.

Jesus Christ is the highest personality in philosophy. That's just my personal opinion.

The Fool: There is not much philosophy involved in Jesus as all. You have to remember the whole purpose of philosophy was to explain the world without supernatural explanations. AKA natural rational understandings.
http://en.wikipedia.org... just Read

Philosophy was apposed to theology. The Philosopher doesn't assume anything supernatural.
Theology presupposes God; they have not had much progress in 2000 years. Over time as more people identified themselves as philosopher the definition of philosophy had become broader and broader to the point where anything can now anything is considered philosophy. It's only after the logical positivist view became unpopular, that theologians started calling themselves philosophers to regain lost credibility.
They are not philosophers in the original sense, and most of them are from religious or theologian schools which are crediting them as philosophers. So you have to understand that what you mean by philosophy is in the broad definition that encompasses alot. You are even given different definitions of what philosophy is. But really it's and attempt to get away from being recognized as a religion.

So when you say that Jesus is a big personal personality in philosophy. You are not talking about the same thing I am. Because what I am talking about is not about opinion. It's about argumentation and critical sceptical rational inquiry. It's about understanding the world with the least amount of reliance of faith possible.
Proofs of god has been long dead and refuted by philosophy.

I represent the True philosopher, Aka salvation through knowledge as appose to faith.
Where faith is a believe but the true philosopher seeks TJB true justified belief. AS in:
True (non-contradiction and the vocabulary must match a reality. That is you cannot define something into reality.)
Justified (logico-mathmatical and or evidence based)
Belief (with trying to rid as much as this as possible)

Theologians are just using the logical systems of people they hated. That is the logic created by logical positivist to give people sense that faith is also rational. They are bringing up old and long proven logically false argument. Logic and God don't mix at all. Nor was it ever made to. God has always been a faith based system.
They are taking advantage of the ignorance caused by the failing education system in the US. This is only happening in the US. Theologians don't carry weight anywhere else in the world. US pours a lot more money into the education system, buts it's failing because of the religious fundamentalism. When every answer in the world is god, children lose their sense of wonder. Curiosity is caused from wonder! Wonder about how the world works; they stop wondering.

Creationgenesis: I do enjoy your question concerning the limited stage on which he provided miracles.

The Fool: what is also important about it is that it's meant to be empirical evidence. That is proof by verification. (Something the church would dismiss out right for all the obvious reasons.) That is the church and churches which have nothing to do with Jesus or any of god's word, and the complete systematic self-appointed configuration of ecclesiastical systems.

Creationgenesis: I would ask the fool a question.

Creationgenesis: What's the purpose of faith, when knowledge becomes absolute?
The Fool: Well we have to make sure about what we are talking about; absolute knowledge is rare, only logic, math, consciousness and your own thoughts and feelings are absolute, knowledge.

The Fool: What it means to be a Fool, is to be humble with your knowledge in the sense that I don't make claims beyond what I could possibly know, I recognize my fallibility, and most importantly I recognize how much I don't know. It is through admitting to being a fool who makes mistakes which allows me to keep evolving my skill and knowledge to level I am at now and beyond. I may not sound like it, but I am rarely being as serious as you think yet serious when you are not thinking so. To makes such claims are of ridiculous of more vanity then I will ever do. IF there is a good god, then he must laugh at you when you claim such things.

The Fool: I can recognize the good when I see it. If we did not know what it is without god, we wouldn't' know what they word meant when we hear it, read it or speak it. Not that you still know anymore. I think the book takes it away from people making them cold in their hearts. Making them hate others end them self's because they eventually are convinced of it that they become it.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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3/19/2012 7:33:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 3:10:13 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
At 3/19/2012 2:52:31 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: Buddamoose you got to be kidding me. .. humour hahaa.


Creationgenisis: Let's assume that God has a plan and it's design is a mystery to us.
The Fool: That is the problem the fact that its mysterious means you can't possible know it. So why are you even talking about it, let alone claiming to be sure?

Creationgenisis: Let us also assume that faith is subject of the plan.

The Fool: let me teach you about faith. Faith is a belief. It is a subjective feeling of inclination toward the truth of something. Here are some synonyms:

I have faith that p is true
I trust that p is true
I believe that p is true
I expect that p is true.
I have confidence that p is true.

The two important factors are to differentiate the subjective feeling of belief and the object you believe to be true. The subjective feeling is a magnitude, it can be higher or lower. Lets give say the maximum is 10. Which is absolute confidence, Not a doubt in the world.
Let expectation=E God = G

You expectation is and expectation, we can expect the hell out of something and it won't change a damn thing. So faith is useless as a form of knowledge. Because expectation is not knowledge, so faith was, is and will never be a form of knowledge ever.

The Fool: The only thing that differentiates us from other animals is your rational capacity. Therefore it must be the part of you that was made in his image. Thus if you were giving this gift, that is our only power, that of reason. You should feel very uncomfortable, when somebody attempts to disarm you of that, to believe in them. You should be nervous.

Creationgenisis: Would it not be inherently destructive to the concept of faith to promote signs and wonders on an extraordinary scale?

The Fools: Wonder is one things knowledge is another. Wonder is in the imagination never ever confuse the two.

Creationgenisis: Your question assumes that we are the goal or that God needs us on some level.

The Fool: If he didn't need us in some way why bother making us in the first place, why would it matter if we belief him or not. How could he be jealous, if there were no other gods or he did not depend on us recognizing him? Jealously is dependence. As in we are jealous when something we want if threatened to be taking away. To love is to need. We desire what we love. Therefore if there is a god it followed by necessity that he must be dependent on us.

Creationgenisis: What if the purpose of the plan is the glory of God?

The Fool: Glory is a subjective positive connotation, that is the feeling of success. We feel glory when we have completed something effortful. This is problematic for such a being. Such assumptions are huge!!

Creationgenisis: What glorifies God more?

The Fool: You mean what makes him suffer less.

Creationgenisis: Worshipping God when he gives you stuff to draw you in? or
The Fool: If god gives us life and then ask for it back when you are living, he is not really giving anything is he. If this is God then all he has made is slaves!

Creationgenisis: Worshipping God even when you suffer?

The Fool: Pleasure gains from anybody suffering is the Devils pleasure. Thus would make God evil in nature. You could not know what the word means if you did not know before you read the word. If what you are saying is true, and this pleases him, and god does what pleases, then you will not be surprised when you end up in hell, and he is gaining
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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3/19/2012 8:58:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You might not be suprised when you end up in hell where he gains pleasure of you eternal suffering and worship at the same time.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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3/19/2012 9:04:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 3:24:51 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 3/19/2012 2:52:31 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: Buddamoose you got to be kidding me. .. humour hahaa.

no reason for laughing at the response, take it or leave it.

It was meant to be intellectual humour .. mabye a little snotty. But just joking. snotty . in that I am not really that snotty, snotty. no? aight then.

a stand-up style bit. Bloody evil rag. no? try looking up you catch it.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
GenesisCreation
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3/21/2012 2:50:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 6:13:00 PM, XDebatorX wrote:
Isa ibn maryam (Jesus son of Mary) never claimed divinity. Jesus definitely performed miracles such as healing the blind, lepers etc but he was not God. He was a prophet. In fact when we read the bible we find that Jesus never says "worship me" or "I am god". Verses in the bible prove otherwise.

4.John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

John 20:28 - "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

John 9:35-38 - "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." 38 And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

John 10:30-33 - "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!"
Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied."
Jesus replied, "Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don't know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?"8


==Book of Acts Chapter 17 Verse 31==
"Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

==Gospel of John Chapter 5 Verse 30 (Jesus Says)==
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

Hebrews 2:
"What is man, that you are mindful of him,
or the son of man, that you care for him?
7 You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor,a
8 putting everything in subjection under his feet."


==Gospel of Mark Chapter 6 Verse 5==
"And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them."
21And Jesus went away from there and withdrew to the district of Tyre and Sidon. 22And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon." 23But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she is crying out after us." 24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." 25But she came and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, help me." 26And he answered, "It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." 27She said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." 28Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.e


Jesus was not all powerful and had finite power, so he could not be god, Mark 6:5 shows this. Jesus himself said he could do nothing without the will of God. The firsts acts verse listed shows that Jesus was an appointed messenger (a man) from God. It wouldn't make sense for God to send himself if Jesus was God right?

Jesus was limited on earth. This is true. After the resurrection, he was seated at the right hand of power. Christ is God.
Um....You've got a log in your eye.
"I would be suspicious of an argument without any concessions." - John Dickson
GenesisCreation
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3/21/2012 3:08:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 7:33:05 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 3/19/2012 3:10:13 PM, GenesisCreation wrote:
At 3/19/2012 2:52:31 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: Buddamoose you got to be kidding me. .. humour hahaa.


Creationgenisis: Let's assume that God has a plan and it's design is a mystery to us.
The Fool: That is the problem the fact that its mysterious means you can't possible know it. So why are you even talking about it, let alone claiming to be sure?

Creationgenisis: Let us also assume that faith is subject of the plan.

The Fool: let me teach you about faith. Faith is a belief. It is a subjective feeling of inclination toward the truth of something. Here are some synonyms:

I have faith that p is true
I trust that p is true
I believe that p is true
I expect that p is true.
I have confidence that p is true.

The two important factors are to differentiate the subjective feeling of belief and the object you believe to be true. The subjective feeling is a magnitude, it can be higher or lower. Lets give say the maximum is 10. Which is absolute confidence, Not a doubt in the world.
Let expectation=E God = G

You expectation is and expectation, we can expect the hell out of something and it won't change a damn thing. So faith is useless as a form of knowledge. Because expectation is not knowledge, so faith was, is and will never be a form of knowledge ever.

The Fool: The only thing that differentiates us from other animals is your rational capacity. Therefore it must be the part of you that was made in his image. Thus if you were giving this gift, that is our only power, that of reason. You should feel very uncomfortable, when somebody attempts to disarm you of that, to believe in them. You should be nervous.

Creationgenisis: Would it not be inherently destructive to the concept of faith to promote signs and wonders on an extraordinary scale?

The Fools: Wonder is one things knowledge is another. Wonder is in the imagination never ever confuse the two.

Creationgenisis: Your question assumes that we are the goal or that God needs us on some level.

The Fool: If he didn't need us in some way why bother making us in the first place, why would it matter if we belief him or not. How could he be jealous, if there were no other gods or he did not depend on us recognizing him? Jealously is dependence. As in we are jealous when something we want if threatened to be taking away. To love is to need. We desire what we love. Therefore if there is a god it followed by necessity that he must be dependent on us.

Creationgenisis: What if the purpose of the plan is the glory of God?

The Fool: Glory is a subjective positive connotation, that is the feeling of success. We feel glory when we have completed something effortful. This is problematic for such a being. Such assumptions are huge!!

Creationgenisis: What glorifies God more?

The Fool: You mean what makes him suffer less.

Creationgenisis: Worshipping God when he gives you stuff to draw you in? or
The Fool: If god gives us life and then ask for it back when you are living, he is not really giving anything is he. If this is God then all he has made is slaves!

Creationgenisis: Worshipping God even when you suffer?

The Fool: Pleasure gains from anybody suffering is the Devils pleasure. Thus would make God evil in nature. You could not know what the word means if you did not know before you read the word. If what you are saying is true, and this pleases him, and god does what pleases, then you will not be surprised when you end up in hell, and he is gaining

What is this....reply? You answered a whole different set of questions than I posed to you.
Um....You've got a log in your eye.
"I would be suspicious of an argument without any concessions." - John Dickson
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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3/21/2012 5:09:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I answered every question directly. I did't miss one.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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3/21/2012 5:11:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You have no way of knowing that you have abolute knowledge for all you know it could be made by the devil him self. It would be the most perfect evil plan wouldn't. way are you ask to disarm you rational capacity and go of animalistic faith only.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Charles0103
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3/23/2012 3:45:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/19/2012 1:22:12 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
I was thinking about the Jesus story and it got me thinking. I mean he sounds like an overall nice guy. At least for 0 AD anyways. But his reasoning was still pretty flawed in respect to like a Socrates of some sort. Didn't really seem to have the best wisdom. I mean he said he was wise. But most unwise people say that all the time. I mean of all the infinite wisdom, a human form was the best idea he could muster up. I mean he is god. He can just pop up, in any way he wants. I shouldn't be able know of better ways to spread the message then him. That's seems contradictory to his omnipotent wisdom. I mean why go through the birthing process and all the growing up? It seems completely unnecessary. Why not just talk as a baby? That would have been a lot more convincing; it would have freaked me out into believing.

God came into a human form so that we could relate to Him more. While Jesus was 100% God, He was also 100% man.
And the whole point isn't to "freak you out into believing." God wants us to believe in Him by choosing to following him. If you believe in Him just because you're afraid, then that's really not true love.

Why the soft miracles? I mean wine, fish and the blind, don't seem that big for a God. Why not something big and unforgettable. Like give the world a universal orgasm and scream "who your daddy?" across the sky. I am sure any random passer-by could come up with a better way than he did. Why not just ask? Why all the pride? What's with the un-original ideas? Why not come with whole new plot instead mending together scraps and ideas form other past religions. That's not very creative for greatest intelligent creator? Maybe I am bias but I think Shakespeare would have done a better job with the creativity.

It wasn't suppose to creative. He just had to do enough to get the point across. And besides, I wouldn't exactly call healing the blind and raising the dead "soft miracles." God didn't want to do a big "Hey! I'm God! Believe in Me or I'm going to Hell!" message across the sky. God wants us to CHOOSE to love Him. Again, you can only love someone if you choose to not because you're forced to.

I mean what's with the second Testament, how could he not get it right the first time. Well at least it was better than a tree talking to one person only; he must have been a real honest guy for people to trust that easy.
Whats with the change in the attitude anyway in the testament, he must be a woman. And it was just not that time of eternity. But again, why have the Cycle in the first place, I have seen its effects many times and it's all bloody evil. A little more on the devilish side aka the not- Good side anyways.

That's a pretty good question, and I've been working on figuring it out myself. It's possible that perhaps the prophets themselves added a twist on the laws that God gave them. But I believe that it's most likely because of free will. God wanted us to try to follow His laws ourselves. When He saw that we collectively failed, He sent Jesus to redeem us. Technically, He knew we were going to fail, but he loves us enough to give us the choice.

I mean the creator didn't really seem to have an understanding of the human anatomy he created, for he thought the mind was in the heart. That's where the idea of emotions being in the heart comes from. People then where ignorant about it. They have excuses, because they are not perfect. But God does not get off the hook that easy. I hate to give God sh!t but he should have known better.
Why only in one place in the world? Why not the native of Americans. Or the Inuit (aka ESKIMO for the completely Ignorant F*cks). Did he hate them? Is that why so many are gone? Why not China or India? I mean there lot more people there. The message would get to more people a little faster. Again, he should know better! Why does it just happen to be around the same place where the other testament was, just a little coincidental no?

Romans 1:16 (NIV) says: "I am not ashamed of the gospel because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Greek."

Israel was God's chosen nation. God promised that Jesus would be of the Jewish nation/line of King David.

How come Christian spread the most at our most ignorant in the dark ages where all knowledge had been burned and pillaged by barbarians leaving Europe completely stupid? I mean stupid to the point where Roman and old Greek ruins lay but they could even copy because they didn't understand the procedures they had to take the intelligently build structure apart apart and make little shitty huts instead of just repairing or imitating what was there, we are talking that stupid! That should set off some alarms….or then again maybe not. Anyways it was just a thought.

That's when Christianity was really used as a political tool. Like all religions and most any given organization in general, Christianity had lots of corrupt people in it. The leaders of the early Catholic Church weren't exactly following the "love your neighbor as you love yourself" rule. You can't say that Christianity can't be true because there's some people that use it for the wrong reasons.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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3/23/2012 3:48:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 3:45:40 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 3/19/2012 1:22:12 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
I was thinking about the Jesus story and it got me thinking. I mean he sounds like an overall nice guy. At least for 0 AD anyways. But his reasoning was still pretty flawed in respect to like a Socrates of some sort. Didn't really seem to have the best wisdom. I mean he said he was wise. But most unwise people say that all the time. I mean of all the infinite wisdom, a human form was the best idea he could muster up. I mean he is god. He can just pop up, in any way he wants. I shouldn't be able know of better ways to spread the message then him. That's seems contradictory to his omnipotent wisdom. I mean why go through the birthing process and all the growing up? It seems completely unnecessary. Why not just talk as a baby? That would have been a lot more convincing; it would have freaked me out into believing.

God came into a human form so that we could relate to Him more. While Jesus was 100% God, He was also 100% man.
And the whole point isn't to "freak you out into believing." God wants us to believe in Him by choosing to following him. If you believe in Him just because you're afraid, then that's really not true love.

Why the soft miracles? I mean wine, fish and the blind, don't seem that big for a God. Why not something big and unforgettable. Like give the world a universal orgasm and scream "who your daddy?" across the sky. I am sure any random passer-by could come up with a better way than he did. Why not just ask? Why all the pride? What's with the un-original ideas? Why not come with whole new plot instead mending together scraps and ideas form other past religions. That's not very creative for greatest intelligent creator? Maybe I am bias but I think Shakespeare would have done a better job with the creativity.

It wasn't suppose to creative. He just had to do enough to get the point across. And besides, I wouldn't exactly call healing the blind and raising the dead "soft miracles." God didn't want to do a big "Hey! I'm God! Believe in Me or you're going to Hell!" message across the sky. God wants us to CHOOSE to love Him. Again, you can only love someone if you choose to not because you're forced to.

I mean what's with the second Testament, how could he not get it right the first time. Well at least it was better than a tree talking to one person only; he must have been a real honest guy for people to trust that easy.
Whats with the change in the attitude anyway in the testament, he must be a woman. And it was just not that time of eternity. But again, why have the Cycle in the first place, I have seen its effects many times and it's all bloody evil. A little more on the devilish side aka the not- Good side anyways.

That's a pretty good question, and I've been working on figuring it out myself. It's possible that perhaps the prophets themselves added a twist on the laws that God gave them. But I believe that it's most likely because of free will. God wanted us to try to follow His laws ourselves. When He saw that we collectively failed, He sent Jesus to redeem us. Technically, He knew we were going to fail, but he loves us enough to give us the choice.

I mean the creator didn't really seem to have an understanding of the human anatomy he created, for he thought the mind was in the heart. That's where the idea of emotions being in the heart comes from. People then where ignorant about it. They have excuses, because they are not perfect. But God does not get off the hook that easy. I hate to give God sh!t but he should have known better.
Why only in one place in the world? Why not the native of Americans. Or the Inuit (aka ESKIMO for the completely Ignorant F*cks). Did he hate them? Is that why so many are gone? Why not China or India? I mean there lot more people there. The message would get to more people a little faster. Again, he should know better! Why does it just happen to be around the same place where the other testament was, just a little coincidental no?

Romans 1:16 (NIV) says: "I am not ashamed of the gospel because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Greek."

Israel was God's chosen nation. God promised that Jesus would be of the Jewish nation/line of King David.

How come Christian spread the most at our most ignorant in the dark ages where all knowledge had been burned and pillaged by barbarians leaving Europe completely stupid? I mean stupid to the point where Roman and old Greek ruins lay but they could even copy because they didn't understand the procedures they had to take the intelligently build structure apart apart and make little shitty huts instead of just repairing or imitating what was there, we are talking that stupid! That should set off some alarms….or then again maybe not. Anyways it was just a thought.

That's when Christianity was really used as a political tool. Like all religions and most any given organization in general, Christianity had lots of corrupt people in it. The leaders of the early Catholic Church weren't exactly following the "love your neighbor as you love yourself" rule. You can't say that Christianity can't be true because there's some people that use it for the wrong reasons.

Fixed
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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3/23/2012 4:14:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 3:45:40 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 3/19/2012 1:22:12 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
I was thinking about the Jesus story and it got me thinking. I mean he sounds like an overall nice guy. At least for 0 AD anyways. But his reasoning was still pretty flawed in respect to like a Socrates of some sort. Didn't really seem to have the best wisdom. I mean he said he was wise. But most unwise people say that all the time. I mean of all the infinite wisdom, a human form was the best idea he could muster up. I mean he is god. He can just pop up, in any way he wants. I shouldn't be able know of better ways to spread the message then him. That's seems contradictory to his omnipotent wisdom. I mean why go through the birthing process and all the growing up? It seems completely unnecessary. Why not just talk as a baby? That would have been a lot more convincing; it would have freaked me out into believing.

God came into a human form so that we could relate to Him more. While Jesus was 100% God, He was also 100% man.

The Fool:You not getting that to say that is to beg the question. Right. the bible is account after the fact. What I am saying is in the actions those reason where not there. It was a joke that a baby talking would actually be more convincing. .JOKE> > not real. Obvoiously that would be ridiculus way to spread belief. people with probably kill what would seem like a demoned possessed baby. Again not to be taken seriously.

And the whole point isn't to "freak you out into believing." God wants us to believe in Him by choosing to following him. If you believe in Him just because you're afraid, then that's really not true love.

The Fool: JOKE not serious. But most people do believe because they are afraid of hell right. what would be the point in hell at all . it wasn' t to fear you into believing. its all fear techniques, right?> like you need to be saved. is to make you fear that some how you really need thisn . but it doesn't make sense. save from what . he is the only one who is threating to hurt us. That we will be punished. so that doesn't make sense.

Why the soft miracles? I mean wine, fish and the blind, don't seem that big for a God. Why not something big and unforgettable. Like give the world a universal orgasm and scream "who your daddy?" across the sky. I am sure any random passer-by could come up with a better way than he did. Why not just ask? Why all the pride? What's with the un-original ideas? Why not come with whole new plot instead mending together scraps and ideas form other past religions. That's not very creative for greatest intelligent creator? Maybe I am bias but I think Shakespeare would have done a better job with the creativity.

It wasn't suppose to creative.

The Fool: again Shakespeare. COME ON!!> You actaully take that seriously!! come on...

He just had to do enough to get the point across.

The Fool: exactly his point was too prove empirically with you eyes. but that is a shitty way to get your point across to other future generations.


And besides, I wouldn't exactly call healing the blind and raising the dead "soft miracles."

The Fool: the point is nobody else except people their would know so it doesn;t make sense. remember there a over 100 year gap before anything llike bible pop up. its probably not even related.

God didn't want to do a big "Hey! I'm God! Believe in Me or I'm going to Hell!"

The Fool: but we shouldl so that. if he is a good God. he should make it clear. what about people not of that region. if the go to hell. that makes God evil..

. God wants us to CHOOSE to love Him.

The Fool: you can' t choose what you don;t know !!

Again, you can only love someone if you choose to not because you're forced to.

The Fool: You never Choose what you love ever. YOU fall in love. not choose in love. That doesn;t make any sense. we get attrated to people we dont; choose to get attracted. it would be real love at all. why because the people who wrote it didn't understand these things well.

I mean what's with the second Testament, how could he not get it right the first time. Well at least it was better than a tree talking to one person only; he must have been a real honest guy for people to trust that easy.


The Fool: serious but a little jokey. not too serious. but significant enought.

Whats with the change in the attitude anyway in the testament, he must be a woman. And it was just not that time of eternity. But again, why have the Cycle in the first place, I have seen its effects many times and it's all bloody evil. A little more on the devilish side aka the not- Good side anyways.

The Fool: Woman cycle, bloody. . evil NO? humour? time of eternity (as appose to month.) no? forget it.

That's a pretty good question, and I've been working on figuring it out myself. It's possible that perhaps the prophets themselves added a twist on the laws that God gave them.

The Fool: or perhaps non of it makes sense . maybe not ... but, just perhaps.

But I believe that it's most likely because of free will.

The Fool: do we really understand free will. really. Are not all decisions base from knowledge, do we not always just do what we think is better. we don;t choose where we are born. nor the knowledge we just happend to come by. our emotion are our motivation . that jsut the way the brain works.

God wanted us to try to follow His laws ourselves.

The Fool: why play all the games. all the riddles. If there exist a mighty god. why hang out in the womb of a woman for 9 monthes. and go through all the growing up and learning . I mean hes god. He is supposed to know everything. Doesnt the story start to get a little suspecious, after it keeps not making sense.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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3/23/2012 4:28:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
When He saw that we collectively failed, He sent Jesus to redeem us. Technically, He knew we were going to fail, but he loves us enough to give us the choice.

The Fool: is this part really in the bible our are you feeling just a bit. I mean just a wee. but not much. just wee

I mean the creator didn't really seem to have an understanding of the human anatomy he created, for he thought the mind was in the heart. That's where the idea of emotions being in the heart comes from. People then where ignorant about it.\ But God does not get off the hook that easy. I hate to give God sh!t but he should have known better.
Why only in one place in the world? Why not the native of Americans. Or the Inuit . Did he hate them? Is that why so many are gone? Why not China or India? I mean there lot more people there. The message would get to more people a little faster. Again, he should know better! Why does it just happen to be around the same place where the other testament was, just a little coincidental no?

Romans 1:16 (NIV) says: "I am not ashamed of the gospel because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Greek."

The Fool: which is a problem no? that god only knew about middle eastern countries ONLY< that doesn;t set of any sirens or nothign . RED flags maybe. That there is account for the rest of earth. Coudl that not be because the writers are ignorace of earth at this timem. and these are all the people the knew in the middle east. Maybe no?

Israel was God's chosen nation. God promised that Jesus would be of the Jewish nation/line of King David

The Fool: Well ofcourse its based of the JEWS TESTIMATE. isn't that a little to coincedental. little bit.

How come Christian spread the most at our most ignorant in the dark ages where all knowledge had been burned and pillaged by barbarians leaving Europe completely stupid? I mean stupid to the point where Roman and old Greek ruins lay but they could even copy because they didn't understand the procedures they had to take the intelligently build structure apart apart and make little shitty huts instead of just repairing or imitating what was there, we are talking that stupid! That should set off some alarms….or then again maybe not. Anyways it was just a thought.

That's when Christianity was really used as a political tool.

The Fool: right as a matter of fact it was very popular even 300 years before plato is writting about a utopian city and he say that they should alway make up a myth. to control the people better. RIGHt? so why do we think this is some how not jsut one of those. That worked a little TO well . no?? Just a little.

Like all religions and most any given organization in general, Christianity had lots of corrupt people in it.

The Fool: exactly so why do you trust them to pick the books of the bible and trust them when a currupt government made it. That doesn;t bother you that its put toget by the currupt with the intentoin to govern. WHich was also a very popular things in that time!... hmm

. You can't say that Christianity can't be true because there's some people that use it for the wrong reason

The Fool: but we are not talking just some everyday person but the people who actually put the book together. Inconsistenctly. Nohah ark an everything . yeah. Well I guess nothing get by you then eh!!!
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Charles0103
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3/24/2012 5:22:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/23/2012 4:28:54 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
When He saw that we collectively failed, He sent Jesus to redeem us. Technically, He knew we were going to fail, but he loves us enough to give us the choice.

The Fool: is this part really in the bible our are you feeling just a bit. I mean just a wee. but not much. just wee

It's really a part of the Bible. I mean, our entire theology is kinda' based on it. I'll find a verse later.

I mean the creator didn't really seem to have an understanding of the human anatomy he created, for he thought the mind was in the heart. That's where the idea of emotions being in the heart comes from. People then where ignorant about it.\ But God does not get off the hook that easy. I hate to give God sh!t but he should have known better.
Why only in one place in the world? Why not the native of Americans. Or the Inuit . Did he hate them? Is that why so many are gone? Why not China or India? I mean there lot more people there. The message would get to more people a little faster. Again, he should know better! Why does it just happen to be around the same place where the other testament was, just a little coincidental no?

Romans 1:16 (NIV) says: "I am not ashamed of the gospel because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Greek."

The Fool: which is a problem no? that god only knew about middle eastern countries ONLY< that doesn;t set of any sirens or nothign . RED flags maybe. That there is account for the rest of earth. Coudl that not be because the writers are ignorace of earth at this timem. and these are all the people the knew in the middle east. Maybe no?

Ever heard of the Great Commission? (Matthew 28: 16-20) Jesus calls us to be "disciples of all nations." It's OUR job as the Church to spread Jesus's message. It just started in Israel because that's where God promised it would.

Israel was God's chosen nation. God promised that Jesus would be of the Jewish nation/line of King David

The Fool: Well ofcourse its based of the JEWS TESTIMATE. isn't that a little to coincedental. little bit.

...Oooooor maybe the Jews were God's chosen people like the Bible says.

How come Christian spread the most at our most ignorant in the dark ages where all knowledge had been burned and pillaged by barbarians leaving Europe completely stupid? I mean stupid to the point where Roman and old Greek ruins lay but they could even copy because they didn't understand the procedures they had to take the intelligently build structure apart apart and make little shitty huts instead of just repairing or imitating what was there, we are talking that stupid! That should set off some alarms….or then again maybe not. Anyways it was just a thought.

That's when Christianity was really used as a political tool.

The Fool: right as a matter of fact it was very popular even 300 years before plato is writting about a utopian city and he say that they should alway make up a myth. to control the people better. RIGHt? so why do we think this is some how not jsut one of those. That worked a little TO well . no?? Just a little.

Because there's evidence that Jesus existed, was crucified, and was raised from the dead.. But, that's kind of another whole story. I'll get into that if you want me to.


Like all religions and most any given organization in general, Christianity had lots of corrupt people in it.

The Fool: exactly so why do you trust them to pick the books of the bible and trust them when a currupt government made it. That doesn;t bother you that its put toget by the currupt with the intentoin to govern. WHich was also a very popular things in that time!... hmm

Piecing together the books of the Bible together in the Biblical Canon system that we know of took hundreds of years.

. You can't say that Christianity can't be true because there's some people that use it for the wrong reason

The Fool: but we are not talking just some everyday person but the people who actually put the book together. Inconsistenctly. Nohah ark an everything . yeah. Well I guess nothing get by you then eh!!!

...Again, look at my point above. The process of putting the Bible together took a long, long time. People all over the world were teaching the same thing, and the most used books were put together into what we now call the Bible.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
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3/25/2012 10:37:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Because there's evidence that Jesus existed, was crucified, and was raised from the dead.. But, that's kind of another whole story. I'll get into that if you want me to.

The Fool: Sorry to break it to you but there is NO evidence for any such things at all.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL