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My Take on Being Agnostic (argue or agree)

Vitreous
Posts: 173
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3/25/2012 12:50:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is my first post so ill just jump right into what I want to say. It's pretty evident that there exists a variation in religions (even varying beliefs under the same religion). So I'll provide my take as to why I'm agnostic and you can either agree with me, compliment the thinking, or digress. So, the reason why I am agnostic is because i view that humans do not have the ability to understand whether or not there is a Divine Being. Compare this to the universe where we generate a theory that black hole and dark energy exists, but we can't comprehend/explain what they really are. The same is with life. We know it exists, but we can not comprehend/explain why. We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists, and if so, then who. Feel free to comment.
"I don't even know what that means"
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"No it's not, it's..."
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tyler90az
Posts: 971
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3/25/2012 1:02:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 12:50:16 AM, Vitreous wrote:
This is my first post so ill just jump right into what I want to say. It's pretty evident that there exists a variation in religions (even varying beliefs under the same religion). So I'll provide my take as to why I'm agnostic and you can either agree with me, compliment the thinking, or digress. So, the reason why I am agnostic is because i view that humans do not have the ability to understand whether or not there is a Divine Being. Compare this to the universe where we generate a theory that black hole and dark energy exists, but we can't comprehend/explain what they really are. The same is with life. We know it exists, but we can not comprehend/explain why. We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists, and if so, then who. Feel free to comment.

That argument does not work for an agnostic. The argument does work for being a theist though.

Most religions answer the tough questions in life, especially regarding deity.

Atheists have few answers for anything, we're just here.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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3/25/2012 1:05:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 1:02:54 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 12:50:16 AM, Vitreous wrote:
This is my first post so ill just jump right into what I want to say. It's pretty evident that there exists a variation in religions (even varying beliefs under the same religion). So I'll provide my take as to why I'm agnostic and you can either agree with me, compliment the thinking, or digress. So, the reason why I am agnostic is because i view that humans do not have the ability to understand whether or not there is a Divine Being. Compare this to the universe where we generate a theory that black hole and dark energy exists, but we can't comprehend/explain what they really are. The same is with life. We know it exists, but we can not comprehend/explain why. We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists, and if so, then who. Feel free to comment.

That argument does not work for an agnostic. The argument does work for being a theist though.

Most religions answer the tough questions in life, especially regarding deity.

Atheists have few answers for anything, we're just here.

o.O I'm so confused. This was basically the definition of agnosticism.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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3/25/2012 1:13:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 1:05:20 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:02:54 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 12:50:16 AM, Vitreous wrote:
This is my first post so ill just jump right into what I want to say. It's pretty evident that there exists a variation in religions (even varying beliefs under the same religion). So I'll provide my take as to why I'm agnostic and you can either agree with me, compliment the thinking, or digress. So, the reason why I am agnostic is because i view that humans do not have the ability to understand whether or not there is a Divine Being. Compare this to the universe where we generate a theory that black hole and dark energy exists, but we can't comprehend/explain what they really are. The same is with life. We know it exists, but we can not comprehend/explain why. We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists, and if so, then who. Feel free to comment.

That argument does not work for an agnostic. The argument does work for being a theist though.

Most religions answer the tough questions in life, especially regarding deity.

Atheists have few answers for anything, we're just here.

o.O I'm so confused. This was basically the definition of agnosticism.

The two parts you put in bold make no sense to me. How is it possible to not have the ability to understand if there is a God? It is not about ability, it is about not having knowledge for most people. In other words, anybody is capable of understanding there is a God, some just don't have the knowledge. The reason we can't explain dark energy or a black whole is because we haven't discovered it yet. Similar to how we didn't understand how gravity worked then it was discovered.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/25/2012 1:35:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So are you only Agnostic to Theism or are you an Absolute Agnostic?

If the former, well, that's just dandy. If the latter, you will fit in quite nicely with the philosophical freakshow we got goin on here.

Welcome, by the way.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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3/25/2012 1:38:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 12:50:16 AM, Vitreous wrote:
This is my first post so ill just jump right into what I want to say. It's pretty evident that there exists a variation in religions (even varying beliefs under the same religion). So I'll provide my take as to why I'm agnostic and you can either agree with me, compliment the thinking, or digress. So, the reason why I am agnostic is because i view that humans do not have the ability to understand whether or not there is a Divine Being. Compare this to the universe where we generate a theory that black hole and dark energy exists, but we can't comprehend/explain what they really are. The same is with life. We know it exists, but we can not comprehend/explain why. We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists, and if so, then who. Feel free to comment.

Are you agnostic about whether the universe was created 6,000 years ago?

Because if not, then you're not agnostic about whether a particular variation on the Judeo-Christian God exists or does not exist (YEC).
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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3/25/2012 1:41:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 1:13:40 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:05:20 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:02:54 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 12:50:16 AM, Vitreous wrote:
This is my first post so ill just jump right into what I want to say. It's pretty evident that there exists a variation in religions (even varying beliefs under the same religion). So I'll provide my take as to why I'm agnostic and you can either agree with me, compliment the thinking, or digress. So, the reason why I am agnostic is because i view that humans do not have the ability to understand whether or not there is a Divine Being. Compare this to the universe where we generate a theory that black hole and dark energy exists, but we can't comprehend/explain what they really are. The same is with life. We know it exists, but we can not comprehend/explain why. We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists, and if so, then who. Feel free to comment.

That argument does not work for an agnostic. The argument does work for being a theist though.

Most religions answer the tough questions in life, especially regarding deity.

Atheists have few answers for anything, we're just here.

o.O I'm so confused. This was basically the definition of agnosticism.

The two parts you put in bold make no sense to me. How is it possible to not have the ability to understand if there is a God?
The knowledge is not attainable. As in- it is not possible to know. If you dispute that idea, then you are not an agnostic. But that doesn't mean this person is not an agnostic just because you don't understand it.
It is not about ability, it is about not having knowledge for most people. In other words, anybody is capable of understanding there is a God, some just don't have the knowledge. The reason we can't explain dark energy or a black whole is because we haven't discovered it yet. Similar to how we didn't :understand how gravity worked then it was discovered.

If you believe this bolded statement, you are a gnostic. OP disagrees. They are an agnostic.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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3/25/2012 1:57:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 1:41:41 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:13:40 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:05:20 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:02:54 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 12:50:16 AM, Vitreous wrote:
This is my first post so ill just jump right into what I want to say. It's pretty evident that there exists a variation in religions (even varying beliefs under the same religion). So I'll provide my take as to why I'm agnostic and you can either agree with me, compliment the thinking, or digress. So, the reason why I am agnostic is because i view that humans do not have the ability to understand whether or not there is a Divine Being. Compare this to the universe where we generate a theory that black hole and dark energy exists, but we can't comprehend/explain what they really are. The same is with life. We know it exists, but we can not comprehend/explain why. We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists, and if so, then who. Feel free to comment.

That argument does not work for an agnostic. The argument does work for being a theist though.

Most religions answer the tough questions in life, especially regarding deity.

Atheists have few answers for anything, we're just here.

o.O I'm so confused. This was basically the definition of agnosticism.

The two parts you put in bold make no sense to me. How is it possible to not have the ability to understand if there is a God?
The knowledge is not attainable. As in- it is not possible to know. If you dispute that idea, then you are not an agnostic. But that doesn't mean this person is not an agnostic just because you don't understand it.
It is not about ability, it is about not having knowledge for most people. In other words, anybody is capable of understanding there is a God, some just don't have the knowledge. The reason we can't explain dark energy or a black whole is because we haven't discovered it yet. Similar to how we didn't :understand how gravity worked then it was discovered.

If you believe this bolded statement, you are a gnostic. OP disagrees. They are an agnostic.

Agnostic is simply not knowing rather a God exists. It doesn't mean they are not capable, just that they haven't yet.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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3/25/2012 1:59:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 1:57:00 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:41:41 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:13:40 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:05:20 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:02:54 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 12:50:16 AM, Vitreous wrote:
This is my first post so ill just jump right into what I want to say. It's pretty evident that there exists a variation in religions (even varying beliefs under the same religion). So I'll provide my take as to why I'm agnostic and you can either agree with me, compliment the thinking, or digress. So, the reason why I am agnostic is because i view that humans do not have the ability to understand whether or not there is a Divine Being. Compare this to the universe where we generate a theory that black hole and dark energy exists, but we can't comprehend/explain what they really are. The same is with life. We know it exists, but we can not comprehend/explain why. We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists, and if so, then who. Feel free to comment.

That argument does not work for an agnostic. The argument does work for being a theist though.

Most religions answer the tough questions in life, especially regarding deity.

Atheists have few answers for anything, we're just here.

o.O I'm so confused. This was basically the definition of agnosticism.

The two parts you put in bold make no sense to me. How is it possible to not have the ability to understand if there is a God?
The knowledge is not attainable. As in- it is not possible to know. If you dispute that idea, then you are not an agnostic. But that doesn't mean this person is not an agnostic just because you don't understand it.
It is not about ability, it is about not having knowledge for most people. In other words, anybody is capable of understanding there is a God, some just don't have the knowledge. The reason we can't explain dark energy or a black whole is because we haven't discovered it yet. Similar to how we didn't :understand how gravity worked then it was discovered.

If you believe this bolded statement, you are a gnostic. OP disagrees. They are an agnostic.

Agnostic is simply not knowing rather a God exists. It doesn't mean they are not capable, just that they haven't yet.

O.O

izbo did not scream loud enough, apparently.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Vitreous
Posts: 173
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3/25/2012 8:18:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Alright, so about the human ability argument. I'm basically saying that we as human beings don't have the capability to know whether or not there is a God. Knowing whether or not is too complex, its beyond the scope of human knowledge. And it says i'm Greek Orthodox, because i put the religion i was baptized, not the one i follow.
"I don't even know what that means"
"No one knows what it means but its provocative"
"No it's not, it's..."
"It gets the people GOING!!!"
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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3/25/2012 8:30:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 8:18:21 AM, Vitreous wrote:
Alright, so about the human ability argument. I'm basically saying that we as human beings don't have the capability to know whether or not there is a God. Knowing whether or not is too complex, its beyond the scope of human knowledge. And it says i'm Greek Orthodox, because i put the religion i was baptized, not the one i follow.

Human physicists have already described time and space, the fundamental particles of the Standard Model, and developed theories such as M-Theory to make physics compatible with observation. If there is a deity, we at least have the capacity to understand his Creation.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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3/25/2012 9:03:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 8:18:21 AM, Vitreous wrote:
Alright, so about the human ability argument. I'm basically saying that we as human beings don't have the capability to know whether or not there is a God. Knowing whether or not is too complex, its beyond the scope of human knowledge. And it says i'm Greek Orthodox, because i put the religion i was baptized, not the one i follow.

Just because you don't know God, doesn't mean humans don't have the ability. You don't know John Smith from China but he is still their. It is hard to tell a believer they don't have the capability to know whether there is a God, when they do know God.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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3/25/2012 9:09:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 12:50:16 AM, Vitreous wrote:
This is my first post so ill just jump right into what I want to say. It's pretty evident that there exists a variation in religions (even varying beliefs under the same religion). So I'll provide my take as to why I'm agnostic and you can either agree with me, compliment the thinking, or digress. So, the reason why I am agnostic is because i view that humans do not have the ability to understand whether or not there is a Divine Being. Compare this to the universe where we generate a theory that black hole and dark energy exists, but we can't comprehend/explain what they really are. The same is with life. We know it exists, but we can not comprehend/explain why. We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists, and if so, then who. Feel free to comment.

"We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists"

If I said there was a being beside me who followed me around all day, and could not interact with physical reality or have physical reality interact with him, would it be logical to not believe this clam until evidence arises, be on the fence because no evidence contradicts it, or believe this claim?

One is complete non-delusion, one is the potential for delusion, one is walking in the room of delusion.

Being on the fence about something absurd isn't far off from believing in something absurd.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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3/25/2012 9:12:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 1:59:28 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:57:00 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:41:41 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:13:40 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:05:20 AM, Oryus wrote:
At 3/25/2012 1:02:54 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 12:50:16 AM, Vitreous wrote:
This is my first post so ill just jump right into what I want to say. It's pretty evident that there exists a variation in religions (even varying beliefs under the same religion). So I'll provide my take as to why I'm agnostic and you can either agree with me, compliment the thinking, or digress. So, the reason why I am agnostic is because i view that humans do not have the ability to understand whether or not there is a Divine Being. Compare this to the universe where we generate a theory that black hole and dark energy exists, but we can't comprehend/explain what they really are. The same is with life. We know it exists, but we can not comprehend/explain why. We do not carry the complexity needed to know that a Supreme Being exists, and if so, then who. Feel free to comment.

That argument does not work for an agnostic. The argument does work for being a theist though.

Most religions answer the tough questions in life, especially regarding deity.

Atheists have few answers for anything, we're just here.

o.O I'm so confused. This was basically the definition of agnosticism.

The two parts you put in bold make no sense to me. How is it possible to not have the ability to understand if there is a God?
The knowledge is not attainable. As in- it is not possible to know. If you dispute that idea, then you are not an agnostic. But that doesn't mean this person is not an agnostic just because you don't understand it.
It is not about ability, it is about not having knowledge for most people. In other words, anybody is capable of understanding there is a God, some just don't have the knowledge. The reason we can't explain dark energy or a black whole is because we haven't discovered it yet. Similar to how we didn't :understand how gravity worked then it was discovered.

If you believe this bolded statement, you are a gnostic. OP disagrees. They are an agnostic.

Agnostic is simply not knowing rather a God exists. It doesn't mean they are not capable, just that they haven't yet.

O.O

izbo did not scream loud enough, apparently.

I thought I was the only one that noticed. O.O
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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3/25/2012 9:13:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I hate to say this, but it's just too hilarious.

You have to admit -- if Izbo behaved that way out of frustration, that wouldn't be to hard to believe, given after to much time later, after so much attention he got from so many people, there are still countless threads being made with the same misconception, even though I've been correcting people in some of them and bringing this exact issue up every time.

LoLoL
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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3/25/2012 9:24:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 9:13:42 AM, Ren wrote:
I hate to say this, but it's just too hilarious.

You have to admit -- if Izbo behaved that way out of frustration, that wouldn't be to hard to believe, given after to much time later, after so much attention he got from so many people, there are still countless threads being made with the same misconception, even though I've been correcting people in some of them and bringing this exact issue up every time.

LoLoL

Is my understanding of agnosticism wrong Ren?
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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3/25/2012 9:45:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 9:24:00 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 9:13:42 AM, Ren wrote:
I hate to say this, but it's just too hilarious.

You have to admit -- if Izbo behaved that way out of frustration, that wouldn't be to hard to believe, given after to much time later, after so much attention he got from so many people, there are still countless threads being made with the same misconception, even though I've been correcting people in some of them and bringing this exact issue up every time.

LoLoL

Is my understanding of agnosticism wrong Ren?

Agnosticism is literally an acknowledgement of human intellectual limitation, leading to the syllogism that we don't understand anything in its entirely, and thus, we cannot understand God, who is, in some aspects, everything manifest.

It is entirely possible for someone to be a Christian Agnostic.

In fact, I'm a Christian Agnostic.

You can't really prove that there's a God to those who don't want to believe that He (She/It) exists, but you can't prove that there isn't one, either.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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3/25/2012 9:53:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 9:45:51 AM, Ren wrote:
At 3/25/2012 9:24:00 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 9:13:42 AM, Ren wrote:
I hate to say this, but it's just too hilarious.

You have to admit -- if Izbo behaved that way out of frustration, that wouldn't be to hard to believe, given after to much time later, after so much attention he got from so many people, there are still countless threads being made with the same misconception, even though I've been correcting people in some of them and bringing this exact issue up every time.

LoLoL

Is my understanding of agnosticism wrong Ren?

Agnosticism is literally an acknowledgement of human intellectual limitation, leading to the syllogism that we don't understand anything in its entirely, and thus, we cannot understand God, who is, in some aspects, everything manifest.

It is entirely possible for someone to be a Christian Agnostic.

In fact, I'm a Christian Agnostic.

You can't really prove that there's a God to those who don't want to believe that He (She/It) exists, but you can't prove that there isn't one, either.

Thanks for the knowledge
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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3/25/2012 10:53:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 9:13:42 AM, Ren wrote:
I hate to say this, but it's just too hilarious.

You have to admit -- if Izbo behaved that way out of frustration, that wouldn't be to hard to believe, given after to much time later, after so much attention he got from so many people, there are still countless threads being made with the same misconception, even though I've been correcting people in some of them and bringing this exact issue up every time.

LoLoL

This misunderstanding is the bane of many agnostic's existence.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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3/25/2012 11:24:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 8:30:33 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 3/25/2012 8:18:21 AM, Vitreous wrote:
Alright, so about the human ability argument. I'm basically saying that we as human beings don't have the capability to know whether or not there is a God. Knowing whether or not is too complex, its beyond the scope of human knowledge. And it says i'm Greek Orthodox, because i put the religion i was baptized, not the one i follow.

Human physicists have already described time and space, the fundamental particles of the Standard Model, and developed theories such as M-Theory to make physics compatible with observation. If there is a deity, we at least have the capacity to understand his Creation.

Ahhhh, wouldn't go that far. That's quite a jump you've made.

M-Theory is a postulate extrapolated from current mathematical models when only applies marginal and maximal values to variables. We're just as sure that M-Theory exists as we are that aliens exist.

And, on that note. Our sophisticated understanding of the Universe pretty much ends at the Earth's stratosphere. After that, we're still learning new things every day that adds to and transforms current theories.

Our current understanding is a small volume in the Book of Life. There are still so many gaps, we can't even be absolutely sure of the postulates we've made about our reality here on Earth; we're not even entirely certain what lay at the farthest reaches of our own planet. We still aren't aware of every species that exists. We're still not sure how we're affecting the global ecosystem, or what all it entails.

I'm just saying. You're going from "I understand the composite and mathematical translation of air" to "I completely understand and can thoroughly extrapolate the star that collapsed and how it came to be, resulting in the heavy elements, like carbon, necessary for life to exist. Then, I understand how these elements travelled to wherever there was another star in circumstantial alignment with one of the planets in its orbit to produce life. Last, i understand how these elements eventually coalesced to produce organic and inorganic existence we know as our current reality.

That's like taking a running leap across the Grand Canyon.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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3/25/2012 11:33:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 11:24:57 AM, Ren wrote:
At 3/25/2012 8:30:33 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 3/25/2012 8:18:21 AM, Vitreous wrote:
Alright, so about the human ability argument. I'm basically saying that we as human beings don't have the capability to know whether or not there is a God. Knowing whether or not is too complex, its beyond the scope of human knowledge. And it says i'm Greek Orthodox, because i put the religion i was baptized, not the one i follow.

Human physicists have already described time and space, the fundamental particles of the Standard Model, and developed theories such as M-Theory to make physics compatible with observation. If there is a deity, we at least have the capacity to understand his Creation.

Ahhhh, wouldn't go that far. That's quite a jump you've made.

M-Theory is a postulate extrapolated from current mathematical models when only applies marginal and maximal values to variables. We're just as sure that M-Theory exists as we are that aliens exist.

And, on that note. Our sophisticated understanding of the Universe pretty much ends at the Earth's stratosphere. After that, we're still learning new things every day that adds to and transforms current theories.

Our current understanding is a small volume in the Book of Life. There are still so many gaps, we can't even be absolutely sure of the postulates we've made about our reality here on Earth; we're not even entirely certain what lay at the farthest reaches of our own planet. We still aren't aware of every species that exists. We're still not sure how we're affecting the global ecosystem, or what all it entails.

I'm just saying. You're going from "I understand the composite and mathematical translation of air" to "I completely understand and can thoroughly extrapolate the star that collapsed and how it came to be, resulting in the heavy elements, like carbon, necessary for life to exist. Then, I understand how these elements travelled to wherever there was another star in circumstantial alignment with one of the planets in its orbit to produce life. Last, i understand how these elements eventually coalesced to produce organic and inorganic existence we know as our current reality.

That's like taking a running leap across the Grand Canyon.

I respect your position ren, however, an Agnostic Christian seems like a paradox. If you are a Christian you have actually proved he exists in your mind. How is it possible that you can't prove God, but you have? Unless Agnosticism is only speaking to the fact God can't be proved scientifically.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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3/25/2012 11:44:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 11:33:29 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 3/25/2012 11:24:57 AM, Ren wrote:
At 3/25/2012 8:30:33 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 3/25/2012 8:18:21 AM, Vitreous wrote:
Alright, so about the human ability argument. I'm basically saying that we as human beings don't have the capability to know whether or not there is a God. Knowing whether or not is too complex, its beyond the scope of human knowledge. And it says i'm Greek Orthodox, because i put the religion i was baptized, not the one i follow.

Human physicists have already described time and space, the fundamental particles of the Standard Model, and developed theories such as M-Theory to make physics compatible with observation. If there is a deity, we at least have the capacity to understand his Creation.

Ahhhh, wouldn't go that far. That's quite a jump you've made.

M-Theory is a postulate extrapolated from current mathematical models when only applies marginal and maximal values to variables. We're just as sure that M-Theory exists as we are that aliens exist.

And, on that note. Our sophisticated understanding of the Universe pretty much ends at the Earth's stratosphere. After that, we're still learning new things every day that adds to and transforms current theories.

Our current understanding is a small volume in the Book of Life. There are still so many gaps, we can't even be absolutely sure of the postulates we've made about our reality here on Earth; we're not even entirely certain what lay at the farthest reaches of our own planet. We still aren't aware of every species that exists. We're still not sure how we're affecting the global ecosystem, or what all it entails.

I'm just saying. You're going from "I understand the composite and mathematical translation of air" to "I completely understand and can thoroughly extrapolate the star that collapsed and how it came to be, resulting in the heavy elements, like carbon, necessary for life to exist. Then, I understand how these elements travelled to wherever there was another star in circumstantial alignment with one of the planets in its orbit to produce life. Last, i understand how these elements eventually coalesced to produce organic and inorganic existence we know as our current reality.

That's like taking a running leap across the Grand Canyon.

I respect your position ren, however, an Agnostic Christian seems like a paradox. If you are a Christian you have actually proved he exists in your mind. How is it possible that you can't prove God, but you have? Unless Agnosticism is only speaking to the fact God can't be proved scientifically.

Naw, it's not paradoxical... I use Christianity as a frame of reference. I suppose you could say that my personal experiences have satisfactorily proven to me that God exists, and that I can veritably approach Him/Her/It from a Christian vantage. On the other hand, that isn't to say that I can prove it to anyone else. It would be a fool's engagement to attempt to explain to someone, for example, what your love for someone else is like. In that regard, it becomes almost pathological. Well, for people who have no sense of spirituality, or who do, but aren't open to contrasting perspectives, explaining God would come off the same way.

Thus, I can't really prove it, and I know it. Does that mean that there's a possibility that's all "in my head;" or, in effect, contrived? Yes, of course, and I realize this. Thus, I'm agnostic.
Vitreous
Posts: 173
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3/25/2012 2:07:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
O.o this thread got more posts than i assumed it would, and mind i ask who is Izbo?
"I don't even know what that means"
"No one knows what it means but its provocative"
"No it's not, it's..."
"It gets the people GOING!!!"
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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3/25/2012 5:01:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 11:24:57 AM, Ren wrote:
At 3/25/2012 8:30:33 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 3/25/2012 8:18:21 AM, Vitreous wrote:
Alright, so about the human ability argument. I'm basically saying that we as human beings don't have the capability to know whether or not there is a God. Knowing whether or not is too complex, its beyond the scope of human knowledge. And it says i'm Greek Orthodox, because i put the religion i was baptized, not the one i follow.

Human physicists have already described time and space, the fundamental particles of the Standard Model, and developed theories such as M-Theory to make physics compatible with observation. If there is a deity, we at least have the capacity to understand his Creation.

Ahhhh, wouldn't go that far. That's quite a jump you've made.

M-Theory is a postulate extrapolated from current mathematical models when only applies marginal and maximal values to variables. We're just as sure that M-Theory exists as we are that aliens exist.

And, on that note. Our sophisticated understanding of the Universe pretty much ends at the Earth's stratosphere. After that, we're still learning new things every day that adds to and transforms current theories.

Our current understanding is a small volume in the Book of Life. There are still so many gaps, we can't even be absolutely sure of the postulates we've made about our reality here on Earth; we're not even entirely certain what lay at the farthest reaches of our own planet. We still aren't aware of every species that exists. We're still not sure how we're affecting the global ecosystem, or what all it entails.

I'm just saying. You're going from "I understand the composite and mathematical translation of air" to "I completely understand and can thoroughly extrapolate the star that collapsed and how it came to be, resulting in the heavy elements, like carbon, necessary for life to exist. Then, I understand how these elements travelled to wherever there was another star in circumstantial alignment with one of the planets in its orbit to produce life. Last, i understand how these elements eventually coalesced to produce organic and inorganic existence we know as our current reality.

That's like taking a running leap across the Grand Canyon.

No, I totally agree with you. I know we haven't made that many discoveries, and I know we are very far off from understanding the Universe (even if I disagree with you about the validity of M-Theory).

I'm saying we have the ability to understand.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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3/25/2012 5:02:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 2:07:50 PM, Vitreous wrote:
O.o this thread got more posts than i assumed it would, and mind i ask who is Izbo?

An idiot troll who was banned a while back.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Nur-Ab-Sal
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3/25/2012 5:06:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/25/2012 11:24:57 AM, Ren wrote:
At 3/25/2012 8:30:33 AM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 3/25/2012 8:18:21 AM, Vitreous wrote:
Alright, so about the human ability argument. I'm basically saying that we as human beings don't have the capability to know whether or not there is a God. Knowing whether or not is too complex, its beyond the scope of human knowledge. And it says i'm Greek Orthodox, because i put the religion i was baptized, not the one i follow.

Human physicists have already described time and space, the fundamental particles of the Standard Model, and developed theories such as M-Theory to make physics compatible with observation. If there is a deity, we at least have the capacity to understand his Creation.

Ahhhh, wouldn't go that far. That's quite a jump you've made.

M-Theory is a postulate extrapolated from current mathematical models when only applies marginal and maximal values to variables. We're just as sure that M-Theory exists as we are that aliens exist.

And, on that note. Our sophisticated understanding of the Universe pretty much ends at the Earth's stratosphere. After that, we're still learning new things every day that adds to and transforms current theories.

Our current understanding is a small volume in the Book of Life. There are still so many gaps, we can't even be absolutely sure of the postulates we've made about our reality here on Earth; we're not even entirely certain what lay at the farthest reaches of our own planet. We still aren't aware of every species that exists. We're still not sure how we're affecting the global ecosystem, or what all it entails.

I'm just saying. You're going from "I understand the composite and mathematical translation of air" to "I completely understand and can thoroughly extrapolate the star that collapsed and how it came to be, resulting in the heavy elements, like carbon, necessary for life to exist. Then, I understand how these elements travelled to wherever there was another star in circumstantial alignment with one of the planets in its orbit to produce life. Last, i understand how these elements eventually coalesced to produce organic and inorganic existence we know as our current reality.

That's like taking a running leap across the Grand Canyon.

I would also like to point out that we actually have a very sound view of how the larger Universe works, even if we don't understand every single bit. I don't think our understanding ends at the Earth's stratosphere.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Vitreous
Posts: 173
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3/26/2012 4:09:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ah, thank you for clearing that up.
"I don't even know what that means"
"No one knows what it means but its provocative"
"No it's not, it's..."
"It gets the people GOING!!!"
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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3/26/2012 5:50:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Thanks, Ren! :D

I get tired of explaining the agnostic thing.

And yes, Stephen, it is the bane of my existence lol
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.