Total Posts:42|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

The Paranormal

TheLaw
Posts: 70
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 8:38:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have no idea where this topic belongs but whatever. The discussion is simple. Basically, what do people who do not have a spiritual life or do not believe in a God or any sort of Higher Being, what comes to your mind when real cases of the paranormal arise? Just a bit curious as me and some friends of mine were in English class talking about the paranormal and of these guys was Atheist. He says when he hears stuff about the paranormal he just chooses not to believe in it, I respected this though I don't agree with his standpoint. So then my other friend went on to explain why he believed in the paranormal as a case happend to one of his family members. What happened was that a person that his uncle hired died from a snake bite. A couple weeks later his aunt (his uncle's wife) came back home to tell her husband she was talking with his worker (she was unaware he died) and the man said "Honey, he died a couple weeks ago...what are you talking about...tell me what he was wearing..?" and she described exactly how he looked like and the same exact clothes before his death.

Anyway that's just one of several stories, but I'm just curious to know, what's your reaction to these types of stories that are likely true?
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 8:58:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 8:38:03 PM, TheLaw wrote:
I have no idea where this topic belongs but whatever. The discussion is simple. Basically, what do people who do not have a spiritual life or do not believe in a God or any sort of Higher Being, what comes to your mind when real cases of the paranormal arise? Just a bit curious as me and some friends of mine were in English class talking about the paranormal and of these guys was Atheist. He says when he hears stuff about the paranormal he just chooses not to believe in it, I respected this though I don't agree with his standpoint. So then my other friend went on to explain why he believed in the paranormal as a case happend to one of his family members. What happened was that a person that his uncle hired died from a snake bite. A couple weeks later his aunt (his uncle's wife) came back home to tell her husband she was talking with his worker (she was unaware he died) and the man said "Honey, he died a couple weeks ago...what are you talking about...tell me what he was wearing..?" and she described exactly how he looked like and the same exact clothes before his death.

Anyway that's just one of several stories, but I'm just curious to know, what's your reaction to these types of stories that are likely true?

Who told you this?
TheLaw
Posts: 70
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 9:34:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So then my OTHER FRIEND went on to explain why he believed in the paranormal as a case happend to one of his family members.:
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 9:49:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I have seen no evidence of the ghosts or the paranormal, or reasoning for why the paranormal is a part of objective reality. Therefore, I take it as seriously as Big Foot and Unicorns.

If someone wants to pay for my flight, I'll spend a weekend in any famous haunted house and provoke any spirit you think is there. I'll video tape the experience and show you guys its all hooey :)
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/29/2012 11:06:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 8:38:03 PM, TheLaw wrote:
I have no idea where this topic belongs but whatever. The discussion is simple. Basically, what do people who do not have a spiritual life or do not believe in a God or any sort of Higher Being, what comes to your mind when real cases of the paranormal arise? Just a bit curious as me and some friends of mine were in English class talking about the paranormal and of these guys was Atheist. He says when he hears stuff about the paranormal he just chooses not to believe in it, I respected this though I don't agree with his standpoint. So then my other friend went on to explain why he believed in the paranormal as a case happend to one of his family members. What happened was that a person that his uncle hired died from a snake bite. A couple weeks later his aunt (his uncle's wife) came back home to tell her husband she was talking with his worker (she was unaware he died) and the man said "Honey, he died a couple weeks ago...what are you talking about...tell me what he was wearing..?" and she described exactly how he looked like and the same exact clothes before his death.

Anyway that's just one of several stories, but I'm just curious to know, what's your reaction to these types of stories that are likely true?

The Fool: There is no real difference between supernatural and paranormal.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
TheLaw
Posts: 70
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/30/2012 2:36:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why did you guys suddenly bring in random stuff into this...? I thought it was a simple question but everyone this site seems to like to make nebulous statements with no value...
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/30/2012 2:41:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 9:34:12 PM, TheLaw wrote:
So then my OTHER FRIEND went on to explain why he believed in the paranormal as a case happend to one of his family members.:

I worded my question wrong. Could you describe your other friend to me a bit more?
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/30/2012 3:08:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/30/2012 2:36:28 PM, TheLaw wrote:
Why did you guys suddenly bring in random stuff into this...? I thought it was a simple question but everyone this site seems to like to make nebulous statements with no value...

The statement "yes" or "no" has no value, the statements given have a lot more value because they're the explanations behind the beliefs. Most people don't say "yes" or "no" explicitly because we can notice the implicit remarks someone is saying. For example, FREEDO is saying the supernatural is not-being, ergo, the supernatural doesn't exist.

More implicitly, dan4reason is going down a Humean road of comparing the evidence for the 'miracle' to the chance of the miracle taking place. I'll pseudo-quote Hume on this so it makes sense:

"Only accept that a miracle occurred if there is so much evidence the chance of it not happening is even more miraculous."
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
astrocometman
Posts: 86
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/30/2012 8:02:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 9:49:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I have seen no evidence of the ghosts or the paranormal, or reasoning for why the paranormal is a part of objective reality. Therefore, I take it as seriously as Big Foot and Unicorns.

If someone wants to pay for my flight, I'll spend a weekend in any famous haunted house and provoke any spirit you think is there. I'll video tape the experience and show you guys its all hooey :)

Your idea of the paranormal only evidencing itself in a domicil is narrow. Also, by casually dismissing hauntings, by default you are disregarding every report that's been lodged in thato regard. Those are human beings you are disregarding, might one story out of the millions of reports that have been lodged through millenia be true? One?

You see, when you post you never know who'll be reading. I read your post. I disregard your post as hooey. It's not about insulting you, it's about letting you know there is a case that atheists who are authentic cannot deny. What do you think about that assertion? Do you think that, just maybe your thinking is in need of a reality adjustment? Or, do you think you are right on where reality is concerned. Most atheists think that they are. What is the standard whereby they claim to be more in touch. Science.

I am one surviving member of a group of MD Psychiatrist, PHd, graduate students the police, and the Superior Court having to do with one of the world's spectacular psychic investigations. I read your post and think to myself, "This fella has a very long way to go. You are living in darkness my friend. I take note of the ambiance of your post. You're far too light minded to begin to know that you don't know what you're talking about. Here's some education for you on a psychic investigation that resulted in a novel, a feature film, and a grant for $200,000 in 1977 dollars to do a controlled experiement. That money was funded, based on field investigative reports. The stunning aspect of that is that two universities were involved, UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute and The California School of Professional Psychology, CSPP was staffed by MD and Phds. The staff was mostly mainstream. Like yourself they were materialist. They would tell you everything that occurs that is psychicly perplexing is the work of the mind. One of CSPP's staff was Dr. Elizabeth Cooley. Dr. Cooley was in the emerging field of parapsychology. Dr. Cooley was the Chair of CSPP's Parapsychology Dept. The mainstream psychiatrists and psychologists had no regard for her department. Like yourself they chided and made light of the subject. When everything was over the mainstream psychiatrist's mouths were as petrified wood. The hooey in your post is what's funny my friend. You not only don't know what you're talking about, your attitude is exactly like the mainstream science minded staff of CSPP. Dr. Cooley's work was funny to them. You're just like them. There could be a difference though. You might be one of those atheists whose something other than what you present. The mainstream staff of CSPP were at least smart enough to shut their mouths after what the saw. You may be one of those who doesn'tknow when to shut your mouth and let your ears feed your head what it needs on this topic. You're starving and don't know it.

Want to know what case I'm talking about, post to me with respect. I have no interest in your goofy ways. As it stands you don't know what you're talking about, then you add being a class clown in your demeanor. I will only communicate with people who communicate on a level worth spending my time to inform. You need to be informed. You also need to check your attitude on things you make comment, but in fact know nothing about.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/30/2012 8:22:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/30/2012 8:02:39 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/29/2012 9:49:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I have seen no evidence of the ghosts or the paranormal, or reasoning for why the paranormal is a part of objective reality. Therefore, I take it as seriously as Big Foot and Unicorns.

If someone wants to pay for my flight, I'll spend a weekend in any famous haunted house and provoke any spirit you think is there. I'll video tape the experience and show you guys its all hooey :)

Your idea of the paranormal only evidencing itself in a domicil is narrow. Also, by casually dismissing hauntings, by default you are disregarding every report that's been lodged in thato regard. Those are human beings you are disregarding, might one story out of the millions of reports that have been lodged through millenia be true? One?

You see, when you post you never know who'll be reading. I read your post. I disregard your post as hooey. It's not about insulting you, it's about letting you know there is a case that atheists who are authentic cannot deny. What do you think about that assertion? Do you think that, just maybe your thinking is in need of a reality adjustment? Or, do you think you are right on where reality is concerned. Most atheists think that they are. What is the standard whereby they claim to be more in touch. Science.

I am one surviving member of a group of MD Psychiatrist, PHd, graduate students the police, and the Superior Court having to do with one of the world's spectacular psychic investigations. I read your post and think to myself, "This fella has a very long way to go. You are living in darkness my friend. I take note of the ambiance of your post. You're far too light minded to begin to know that you don't know what you're talking about. Here's some education for you on a psychic investigation that resulted in a novel, a feature film, and a grant for $200,000 in 1977 dollars to do a controlled experiement. That money was funded, based on field investigative reports. The stunning aspect of that is that two universities were involved, UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute and The California School of Professional Psychology, CSPP was staffed by MD and Phds. The staff was mostly mainstream. Like yourself they were materialist. They would tell you everything that occurs that is psychicly perplexing is the work of the mind. One of CSPP's staff was Dr. Elizabeth Cooley. Dr. Cooley was in the emerging field of parapsychology. Dr. Cooley was the Chair of CSPP's Parapsychology Dept. The mainstream psychiatrists and psychologists had no regard for her department. Like yourself they chided and made light of the subject. When everything was over the mainstream psychiatrist's mouths were as petrified wood. The hooey in your post is what's funny my friend. You not only don't know what you're talking about, your attitude is exactly like the mainstream science minded staff of CSPP. Dr. Cooley's work was funny to them. You're just like them. There could be a difference though. You might be one of those atheists whose something other than what you present. The mainstream staff of CSPP were at least smart enough to shut their mouths after what the saw. You may be one of those who doesn'tknow when to shut your mouth and let your ears feed your head what it needs on this topic. You're starving and don't know it.

Want to know what case I'm talking about, post to me with respect. I have no interest in your goofy ways. As it stands you don't know what you're talking about, then you add being a class clown in your demeanor. I will only communicate with people who communicate on a level worth spending my time to inform. You need to be informed. You also need to check your attitude on things you make comment, but in fact know nothing about.

Show me evidence that a ghost exists, or pay for my flight and I'll spend a night in any haunted house and prove to you that at least that particular ghost in that particular house does not exist.

You obviously are gullible, but to minds with engage in critical thinking, the idea of ghosts is absurd until there is evidence.
TheLaw
Posts: 70
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 8:43:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The thing is the several SEVERAL amounts of cases where sitings of "ghosts" the "paranormal" or anything along those lines are so many it's ridiculous there's not even ONE that has to be true. Let's take another example. I'm not sure if this paranormal, but this happened to directly to someone my friend knew. She always had dreams of being in Egypt and she found it very weird, one night while she was at a party, she felt like she recognized a person but not from anywhere in her life, but somewhere else, the person came up to them and said "I remember from Egypt in our past life". Now, I'm not believer in reincarnation but just to give you an idea that these types of stories have high chances of validity, I mean really, who would think up a story like this?

Also, have you ever heard of Dr. Issam Nemeh, you may want to check him out.
TheLaw
Posts: 70
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 8:46:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I worded my question wrong. Could you describe your other friend to me a bit more?:

What? Well I mean he's my age, and indian, what else type of information do you want....? And why the hell does this matter?
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 9:03:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Basically, what do people who do not have a spiritual life or do not believe in a God or any sort of Higher Being, what comes to your mind when real cases of the paranormal arise?:

How would know if these were "real" cases or not?

Anyway that's just one of several stories, but I'm just curious to know, what's your reaction to these types of stories that are likely true?:

Likely true? What are you basing that determination on? It sounds as if you have a bias towards the supernatural. Perhaps a better question is why you believe the testimony is true without having firsthand knowledge.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 9:10:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Let's take another example. I'm not sure if this paranormal, but this happened to directly to someone my friend knew. She always had dreams of being in Egypt and she found it very weird, one night while she was at a party, she felt like she recognized a person but not from anywhere in her life, but somewhere else, the person came up to them and said "I remember from Egypt in our past life". Now, I'm not believer in reincarnation but just to give you an idea that these types of stories have high chances of validity, I mean really, who would think up a story like this?:

Somebody who wants you to believe they had a past life; somebody who enjoys the attention.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
astrocometman
Posts: 86
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 9:23:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/30/2012 8:22:13 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/30/2012 8:02:39 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/29/2012 9:49:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I have seen no evidence of the ghosts or the paranormal, or reasoning for why the paranormal is a part of objective reality. Therefore, I take it as seriously as Big Foot and Unicorns.

If someone wants to pay for my flight, I'll spend a weekend in any famous haunted house and provoke any spirit you think is there. I'll video tape the experience and show you guys its all hooey :)


My reply? You read and obviously do not comprehend the hint in the scenario outlined in my post. The elements are indicated, e.g. scientific and educational institutions, controlled experiment, two parties unknown to one another telling the same story, scientific field investigations, etc. All of that presented indicating a potential for a best evidence has no meaning in your mentality.

For an inquiring mind what I wrote without specifying what case I'm referring to would spark curiosity in a truth seeker's mind. A truth seeker would ask "What are you talking about? What is the name of the case, etc? Curiosity for knowing what's true evidences itself in how people react to knowledge sharing. You had a scenario to take into account, its mention did not provoke your slightest curiosity. That's speaks volumes of where you are in your mind. The fact that you have no seen does not preclude what's been established beyond your sight or your experience. Your reaction tells you will have no regard for whatever's comes to view. Without curiosity there can be no learning. You are where you're at, the affect of your writings tells that's where you'll be, even in the face of scientific evidence. You didn't even catch what I wrote on haunts. You' re looking for some place to go to make your point. I'm talking about an incident that has scientific status. Your lack of curiosity reveals nothing's to be gained telling you anything more about a case that was so profound it was even reported in the Journal of Electrical Engineering. I don't waste time jockeying around a mulberry bush with individuals who are not at least curious about a world famous psychic investigation.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 10:27:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/30/2012 8:02:39 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/29/2012 9:49:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I have seen no evidence of the ghosts or the paranormal, or reasoning for why the paranormal is a part of objective reality. Therefore, I take it as seriously as Big Foot and Unicorns.

If someone wants to pay for my flight, I'll spend a weekend in any famous haunted house and provoke any spirit you think is there. I'll video tape the experience and show you guys its all hooey :)

Your idea of the paranormal only evidencing itself in a domicil is narrow.

Oh dear, this will be a long post...

Also, by casually dismissing hauntings, by default you are disregarding every report that's been lodged in thato regard.

OK, problem numero uno: We are not dismissing the hauntings, then dismissing the evidence. We evaluate the evidence, which leads us to dismiss the hauntings, as the evidence is flimsy, nonexistent, or unreliable. Usually a combination of the three.

Those are human beings you are disregarding, might one story out of the millions of reports that have been lodged through millenia be true? One?

This is my favourite type of argument: the gish gallop. A disregard of all logic in favour of pathos. Let me just make your "begging the question" argument into a syllogism:

P1 - There are (we'll make up a number) 3 million cases of paranormal activities.
P2 - every case tested or researched has not satisfied the level of proof required (where something is more likely, as the chances of something not happening is more miraculous than the miracle occurring)
C - Therefore, it is likely there is a case which satisfies the level of proof required to justify belief in paranormal activities.

When laid out like this, we see that this belief is unjustified. If someone can make the argument into a better syllogism, then I would be grateful so I can evaluate another one.

You see, when you post you never know who'll be reading. I read your post. I disregard your post as hooey. It's not about insulting you, it's about letting you know there is a case that atheists who are authentic cannot deny. What do you think about that assertion?

I think you are doing it for effect, and you won't provide this case (P.S I have not read onwards from when I post)

Do you think that, just maybe your thinking is in need of a reality adjustment?

No, I think that you need to provide the case in question.

Or, do you think you are right on where reality is concerned. Most atheists think that they are. What is the standard whereby they claim to be more in touch. Science.

Atheism =/= science =/= naturalism. Why does this constantly come up as an equivocation?

I am one surviving member of a group of MD Psychiatrist, PHd, graduate students the police, and the Superior Court having to do with one of the world's spectacular psychic investigations. I read your post and think to myself, "This fella has a very long way to go. You are living in darkness my friend. I take note of the ambiance of your post. You're far too light minded to begin to know that you don't know what you're talking about. Here's some education for you on a psychic investigation that resulted in a novel, a feature film, and a grant for $200,000 in 1977 dollars to do a controlled experiement. That money was funded, based on field investigative reports. The stunning aspect of that is that two universities were involved, UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute and The California School of Professional Psychology, CSPP was staffed by MD and Phds. The staff was mostly mainstream. Like yourself they were materialist. They would tell you everything that occurs that is psychicly perplexing is the work of the mind. One of CSPP's staff was Dr. Elizabeth Cooley. Dr. Cooley was in the emerging field of parapsychology. Dr. Cooley was the Chair of CSPP's Parapsychology Dept. The mainstream psychiatrists and psychologists had no regard for her department. Like yourself they chided and made light of the subject. When everything was over the mainstream psychiatrist's mouths were as petrified wood. The hooey in your post is what's funny my friend. You not only don't know what you're talking about, your attitude is exactly like the mainstream science minded staff of CSPP. Dr. Cooley's work was funny to them. You're just like them. There could be a difference though. You might be one of those atheists whose something other than what you present. The mainstream staff of CSPP were at least smart enough to shut their mouths after what the saw. You may be one of those who doesn'tknow when to shut your mouth and let your ears feed your head what it needs on this topic. You're starving and don't know it.

Coolstorybro. I for one have spent a lot of time watching Darren Brown too, and met him on occasion. He explained to me, through psychology, how he does many of his earlier stunts. Personally done a couple of them (suggestion, Ouija boards, etc.). Doesn't mean much to me.

Want to know what case I'm talking about, post to me with respect. I have no interest in your goofy ways. As it stands you don't know what you're talking about, then you add being a class clown in your demeanor. I will only communicate with people who communicate on a level worth spending my time to inform. You need to be informed. You also need to check your attitude on things you make comment, but in fact know nothing about.

So after all of that, you provided no evidence? Brilliant. Now, if you want to be taken slightly more seriously, please post evidence or logic to back claims. Kthxbai.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 10:34:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/31/2012 8:46:18 AM, TheLaw wrote:
I worded my question wrong. Could you describe your other friend to me a bit more?:

What? Well I mean he's my age, and indian, what else type of information do you want....? And why the hell does this matter?

Your friend is the one making supernatural claims and you are expecting us to believe in the supernatural based on his word, so hell it makes all the difference.

Tell me how your friend is like. How honest is he, how successful is he, what are his religious beliefs, does he tend to see the supernatural in his daily life a lot, does he take any drugs, etc.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 12:29:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/31/2012 9:23:52 AM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/30/2012 8:22:13 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/30/2012 8:02:39 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/29/2012 9:49:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I have seen no evidence of the ghosts or the paranormal, or reasoning for why the paranormal is a part of objective reality. Therefore, I take it as seriously as Big Foot and Unicorns.

If someone wants to pay for my flight, I'll spend a weekend in any famous haunted house and provoke any spirit you think is there. I'll video tape the experience and show you guys its all hooey :)


My reply? You read and obviously do not comprehend the hint in the scenario outlined in my post. The elements are indicated, e.g. scientific and educational institutions, controlled experiment, two parties unknown to one another telling the same story, scientific field investigations, etc. All of that presented indicating a potential for a best evidence has no meaning in your mentality.

For an inquiring mind what I wrote without specifying what case I'm referring to would spark curiosity in a truth seeker's mind. A truth seeker would ask "What are you talking about? What is the name of the case, etc? Curiosity for knowing what's true evidences itself in how people react to knowledge sharing. You had a scenario to take into account, its mention did not provoke your slightest curiosity. That's speaks volumes of where you are in your mind. The fact that you have no seen does not preclude what's been established beyond your sight or your experience. Your reaction tells you will have no regard for whatever's comes to view. Without curiosity there can be no learning. You are where you're at, the affect of your writings tells that's where you'll be, even in the face of scientific evidence. You didn't even catch what I wrote on haunts. You' re looking for some place to go to make your point. I'm talking about an incident that has scientific status. Your lack of curiosity reveals nothing's to be gained telling you anything more about a case that was so profound it was even reported in the Journal of Electrical Engineering. I don't waste time jockeying around a mulberry bush with individuals who are not at least curious about a world famous psychic investigation.

"I don't waste time jockeying around a mulberry bush with individuals who are not at least curious about a world famous psychic investigation."

Judging by the length of your posts, you seem to love wasting time on me.

Now, I already offered you two challenges:

1. Link me to evidence showing me that the ghosts exist, don't just tell me to research it.

2. Pay for my flight, and I'll spend a night in any haunted house to prove to you that at least that particular ghost doesn't exist.

Since you didn't respond to any of my challenges, what left is there to say?
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 12:49:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/31/2012 8:43:37 AM, TheLaw wrote:
The thing is the several SEVERAL amounts of cases where sitings of "ghosts" the "paranormal" or anything along those lines are so many it's ridiculous there's not even ONE that has to be true. Let's take another example. I'm not sure if this paranormal, but this happened to directly to someone my friend knew. She always had dreams of being in Egypt and she found it very weird, one night while she was at a party, she felt like she recognized a person but not from anywhere in her life, but somewhere else, the person came up to them and said "I remember from Egypt in our past life". Now, I'm not believer in reincarnation but just to give you an idea that these types of stories have high chances of validity, I mean really, who would think up a story like this?

P1 - "the several SEVERAL amounts of cases where sitings of "ghosts" the "paranormal" or anything along those lines "

Conclusion - it's ridiculous there's not even ONE that has to be true

Can someone explain the logic of this? Let's compare this with the common inductive syllogism:

P1 - John, Michael, Mark and Francis are all part of the same club.
P2 - John, Michael, Mark and Francis are all men.
P3 - Sam is part of the same club.
P4 - Jane and Laura are not part of the club.
C1 - It is more likely than not that Sam is a man.

In this, I've used as many X, & Y and ¬X, & ¬Y as possible to make this clear that C1 is reasonable. Now, I shall apply the same to the 'ghost' example:

P1 - John, Michael, Mark and Francis all claim to have superpowers
P2 - John, Michael, Mark and Francis' claims to superpower ability have been rejected, due to evidence of the contrary, them admitting to not having superpowers, or just general lack of evidence.
P3 - Sam claims to have superpowers
P4 - Jane and Laura do not claim to have superpowers, nor do they have superpowers.
C1 - (Someone fill this in: is it a) Sam likely has superpowers, or b) Sam likely does not have superpowers? )

Notice that I am using "have superpowers" here, but that can be replaced with "have experienced the paranormal", or "have experienced ghosts", or other things.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
astrocometman
Posts: 86
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 2:59:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/31/2012 10:27:10 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/30/2012 8:02:39 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/29/2012 9:49:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I have seen no evidence of the ghosts or the paranormal, or reasoning for why the paranormal is a part of objective reality. Therefore, I take it as seriously as Big Foot and Unicorns.

If someone wants to pay for my flight, I'll spend a weekend in any famous haunted house and provoke any spirit you think is there. I'll video tape the experience and show you guys its all hooey :)

Your idea of the paranormal only evidencing itself in a domicil is narrow.

Oh dear, this will be a long post...

Also, by casually dismissing hauntings, by default you are disregarding every report that's been lodged in thato regard.

OK, problem numero uno: We are not dismissing the hauntings, then dismissing the evidence. We evaluate the evidence, which leads us to dismiss the hauntings, as the evidence is flimsy, nonexistent, or unreliable. Usually a combination of the three.

My reply: Did you read my first post? I described the elements of a psychic investigation, a particular psychic investigation. I didn't give the name of the investigation, I did cite what was involved.

When someone claims refers to a psychic investigation, describing what and who was involved, from that your opinions will be what they will be. The case I am referring to is not subject to terms you've stated are "usually" the case, e.g. flimsy, nonexistent, or unreliable. None of that applies to the case I'm referring to, not in the least.

The aforementioned is something that atheists are hard pressed to comprehend, a psychic investigation that meets scientific criterion on the highest levels. The investigation I'm referring to is on the other side where what's common to your thoughts are concerned. On what's common to your thinking is warranted to some extent. There are charlatans in psychic claims, there are charlatans in science; both have been discovered and exposed. Again, what I'm referring to is not subject to those kinds of criticisms. One member of the team from the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute gives a good outline of what I'm talking about in the following You Tube video. Look at it and get back to me. There is no necessity for me to tell what I know about that case when there isn't at least a foundation of curiosity.

As I've already stated, I'm have no need to prove anything. You receive the information, you do what your mind construct directs. I have no concern about what twists some folks may bring to the table. I am a living witness, I am not subject to third, fourth and fifth partyies notions thirty years after the fact. Tell me what you think of what you see of the video. I have no interest in individuals who want to minimize what happened in that case to appease their world view. What's real is what's real. What I'm talking about was real, there is scientific method and documentation confirming. Tell me what comes to mind looking at the video. Dr. Kerry, like myself was in the loop of an investigation you cannot imagine in the mind set that has no room for this sort of thing being a reality. I'll deal with other aspects of your post in another post. I want to get a sense of your thinking in light of reality. What I'm writing about happened. What people think about it is no measure of its reality. I don't bother myself with what people might imagine.

http://youtu.be...
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 3:03:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/29/2012 8:38:03 PM, TheLaw wrote:
... what's your reaction to these types of stories that are likely true?

I don't believe they are likely true.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 3:19:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/31/2012 2:59:19 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/31/2012 10:27:10 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
At 3/30/2012 8:02:39 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/29/2012 9:49:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I have seen no evidence of the ghosts or the paranormal, or reasoning for why the paranormal is a part of objective reality. Therefore, I take it as seriously as Big Foot and Unicorns.

If someone wants to pay for my flight, I'll spend a weekend in any famous haunted house and provoke any spirit you think is there. I'll video tape the experience and show you guys its all hooey :)

Your idea of the paranormal only evidencing itself in a domicil is narrow.

Oh dear, this will be a long post...

Also, by casually dismissing hauntings, by default you are disregarding every report that's been lodged in thato regard.

OK, problem numero uno: We are not dismissing the hauntings, then dismissing the evidence. We evaluate the evidence, which leads us to dismiss the hauntings, as the evidence is flimsy, nonexistent, or unreliable. Usually a combination of the three.

My reply: Did you read my first post? I described the elements of a psychic investigation, a particular psychic investigation. I didn't give the name of the investigation, I did cite what was involved.

And I am talking generally. I evaluate the evidence, my evaluation shows me there is little to no evidence in favour of the psychic, and therefore I reject it. This is the same for every single case I've came across.

When someone claims refers to a psychic investigation, describing what and who was involved, from that your opinions will be what they will be. The case I am referring to is not subject to terms you've stated are "usually" the case, e.g. flimsy, nonexistent, or unreliable. None of that applies to the case I'm referring to, not in the least.

No, you are using a vague case, so it is not appliable. Unfortunately, vague cases cannot be proven nor disproven, so I thought that you must have simply been generalising a specific case. However, you did not mention in this post what does apply.

The aforementioned is something that atheists are hard pressed to comprehend, a psychic investigation that meets scientific criterion on the highest levels.

Yes, just as science finds it hard to comperehend an investigation showing the world is flat meeting scientific criterion on the highest levels, because they do not exist. One fails to comprehend them because it is like comprehending a square circle.

The investigation I'm referring to is on the other side where what's common to your thoughts are concerned. On what's common to your thinking is warranted to some extent. There are charlatans in psychic claims, there are charlatans in science; both have been discovered and exposed. Again, what I'm referring to is not subject to those kinds of criticisms. One member of the team from the UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute gives a good outline of what I'm talking about in the following You Tube video. Look at it and get back to me. There is no necessity for me to tell what I know about that case when there isn't at least a foundation of curiosity.

Cool story. Now, let's evaluate the evidence: Two people made masses of money from a ghost story which they report happened (with little & flimsy evidence, based on personal experience only. This is for a claim which would fly in the face of science, explanation of what death is, and make countless experiments regarding science false, even though they have been used to prove other things, or create other things.

http://www.ghosttheory.com...

Further, reading the source with a pinch of salt, the ghosts came about when she was in a drunken stupor, and 30 investigators failed to capture anything on film. She was also notorious for substance abuse. Verdict? A woman, either lying or (more likely) delusional being taken advantage of by moneygrubbing investigators.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
astrocometman
Posts: 86
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 4:02:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/30/2012 8:22:13 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/30/2012 8:02:39 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/29/2012 9:49:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I have seen no evidence of the ghosts or the paranormal, or reasoning for why the paranormal is a part of objective reality. Therefore, I take it as seriously as Big Foot and Unicorns.

If someone wants to pay for my flight, I'll spend a weekend in any famous haunted house and provoke any spirit you think is there. I'll video tape the experience and show you guys its all hooey :)

Telling me I'm gullible when I was in the loop of the investigation is absurd. There is no need to deal with the kind of thinking driving your posts. It's no challenge to discover there is no facility in some people's minds. Tell me who knows the reality of an accident, the occupants of the vehicles or someone reading and writing about it 30 plus years later? I was in the loop of the investigation during the time it was happening. You run to the bottom of the barrel saying I'm gullible, when in fact the investigation I'm writing about met the highest scientific standards. How do you, having had no inside the loop involvement or prior knowledge of what I'm writing about tell me I'm gullible? There comes a point when one's declarations have no merit. I suppose you think you have standing with your opinion. I have standing with first hand real time experience. Who has the inside track, the one inside the loop or one howling in the distance you are gullible? lol Comprehend
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 4:08:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/31/2012 4:02:28 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/30/2012 8:22:13 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 3/30/2012 8:02:39 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/29/2012 9:49:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I have seen no evidence of the ghosts or the paranormal, or reasoning for why the paranormal is a part of objective reality. Therefore, I take it as seriously as Big Foot and Unicorns.

If someone wants to pay for my flight, I'll spend a weekend in any famous haunted house and provoke any spirit you think is there. I'll video tape the experience and show you guys its all hooey :)

Telling me I'm gullible when I was in the loop of the investigation is absurd. There is no need to deal with the kind of thinking driving your posts. It's no challenge to discover there is no facility in some people's minds. Tell me who knows the reality of an accident, the occupants of the vehicles or someone reading and writing about it 30 plus years later?

let's use a different example: Who knows more, a journalist in the Soviet Union circa 1950s, or a journalist in the 21st century? The 21st century journalist, of course, because the Soviet Union had held back a lot of informaton to create propaganda, while the 21st century journalist has access to a lot more information, as well as a lot better techniques. In this circumstance, I'd say the person who's outside looking in has a better view, as they are not invested in any side.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 4:17:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If any of you have any "evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event," apply for the 1 million dollar challenge by James Randi. You can become rich with your god/s, powers, or other paranormal displays. [http://www.randi.org...]
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
astrocometman
Posts: 86
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 6:28:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/31/2012 3:03:34 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/29/2012 8:38:03 PM, TheLaw wrote:
... what's your reaction to these types of stories that are likely true?

I don't believe they are likely true.

My thought: What is the basis of determining what's likely or not? What is the handle you are holding that gives substance to your thought? It's very easy to say what's likely, when i an fact the unlikely has occurred more times than you'd probably like to admit. There are all kinds of twists and turns to things in day to day life, yet when it comes to the question of other levels of existing, all of a sudden what happens in the natural world does not apply to the transcendent. The question to be asked is there any aspect of what's told that's real. That's what you and others have to come to terms with. From what I see some are stuck on the idea there is nothing other than themselves in the form they're in. Scripture declares "A fool says in his heart there is no God." If God can't be proven what is seen proves something. We've seen some of the arguments, including the universe came into being on its own. There is a powerful hint of what's behind it all. The more atheists look into themselves the farther away they are from noticing what's obvious. You can't speak of what's unlikely when the unlikely is not possible to be expected. When you can't tell the future you don't know what will be. What gives the thought that nothing could happen to evidence transcendent life. My experience is not rooted in grounds that must be fertilized. My experience with that matter is real, well documented, etc. Atheist's denials are their own problems to solve. A man can't tell me an experience is an illusion merely because of the limitations of his world view. Anybody who thinks they can get by that easily is not a matter of note, or of concern to me. I don't have to wallow in speculation and intentions to pervert the topic. I know what I know. Everyody in here has to lean on their opinions to put on like they're an authority speaking on the matter. I've told one man he didn't know what he was talking about. Anybody who is where they are on the topic is where they are. What I do known is I'm the only one in here who was in the loop of the Entity case investigation during the time of the happening. Nobody can talk to me as if they're minds have been frozen in an igloo. Stupidity and imbecilic mental games have no affect on me. I'm on the level of this topic that has proven, in a controlled experiment that extra-dimensional life does exist. What can a Simpleton on the topic tell me on this topic? An extra-dimensional being materialized in a controlled experiment, meeting standardized criterion of a scientific investigation. Everything was in place for the experiment, the experimental design was correct in its construction. $200,000 in grant funds were awarded, based on field notes and measures from the field investigations. The case was investigated by two universities, UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute and California School of Professional Psychology.. The central figures investigating the case were MDs, Phds and Graduate students. I was a graduate student. I obtained my MA the same year of the experiment. I was in direct communication with Dr. Elizabeth Cooley. Dr. Cooley was a Jewish woman, I'd say in her late forties at the time. She talked matter of factly about The Event. She and other witnesses, including psychiatrists and MDs on mocked her working the case as a paranormal phenomenon. Some of those men saw the being materialize. They never had a disparaging word to say to Dr. Cooley after that, seeing the Entity materialize shut their mouths on this topic. I read the comments in here, a number reminding me of some people's attitudes on this topic. You think there are no immaterial beings? I can say you are a fool for not knowing or admitting that these things are real. I know they're real, what happened here in Los Angeles in the Entity case is nobody's business to be joking about. To me that exhibits the greatest depths of ignorance and disrespect. This is a reality being written about in this string. The Magpie mentality that some assume is what it is. Make sure you're not the lummy in this.
astrocometman
Posts: 86
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 6:37:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/31/2012 4:17:02 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
If any of you have any "evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event," apply for the 1 million dollar challenge by James Randi. You can become rich with your god/s, powers, or other paranormal displays. [http://www.randi.org...]

Randi doesn't do much advertising for mass exposure. Nobody in inner city or outlying areas know anything at all about Randi's challenge. On the case I am referring to there was more than enough to cause Randi to fork over the money. The Entity case was before Randi. The documentation of the case, including articles in a major Photography mag and an Electrical Journal are testimonials of a real event. There are other testimonials, the police report of Jorge Rodriguez, one of the victim's boyfriends. I won't tell what happened with Jorge, an incident that wound up putting him in jail. He hadn't done anything to harm anybody. He slammed a chair down on to victim, thinking he would actually strike something that was there. Something was there, but he couldn't touch it. It could touch though. Confounding, but true..
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/31/2012 6:46:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 3/31/2012 6:28:56 PM, astrocometman wrote:
At 3/31/2012 3:03:34 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 3/29/2012 8:38:03 PM, TheLaw wrote:
... what's your reaction to these types of stories that are likely true?

I don't believe they are likely true.

My thought: What is the basis of determining what's likely or not?

I've said this before: a miracle should be accepted to be true if the contrary is so unlikely that it would be more miraculous that the miracle in question is false.

What is the handle you are holding that gives substance to your thought? It's very easy to say what's likely, when i an fact the unlikely has occurred more times than you'd probably like to admit.

The unlikely does happen, repeatedly. That makes it unlikely. Should we assume the unlikely over the likely? No, because the unlikely then becomes (by definition of the words) likely.

There are all kinds of twists and turns to things in day to day life, yet when it comes to the question of other levels of existing, all of a sudden what happens in the natural world does not apply to the transcendent.

Claims, claims, claims.

The question to be asked is there any aspect of what's told that's real. That's what you and others have to come to terms with. From what I see some are stuck on the idea there is nothing other than themselves in the form they're in. Scripture declares "A fool says in his heart there is no God." If God can't be proven what is seen proves something.

...No. Seeing something doesn't prove something. I've seen the film Avatar. That doesn't prove Pandora is real. I've seen a horse excrete grapefruits in my dreams. That doesn't make it real. I saw monkeys come out of a man's arse in Bruce Almighty. Doesn't prove it exists.

We've seen some of the arguments, including the universe came into being on its own.

Which, again, shows that proof does not come from seeing something. I've seen arguments showing God's existence and non-existence. When one analyses the reasoning, one sees more reason to believe one or the other. But one does not gain an objective perspective to say something does not exist.

There is a powerful hint of what's behind it all. The more theists look into themselves the farther away they are from noticing what's obvious.

See what I did there? I could do that because your argument can be applied to theists, atheists, republicans, dogs and green stuff.

You can't speak of what's unlikely when the unlikely is not possible to be expected.

Claims, claims, claims.

When you can't tell the future you don't know what will be.

Claims, claims, claims. If you mean for certain, no-one can claim it reliably, honestly, and sanely, as per the property of certainty and future.

What gives the thought that nothing could happen to evidence transcendent life. My experience is not rooted in grounds that must be fertilized. My experience with that matter is real, well documented, etc. Atheist's denials are their own problems to solve.

Coolstorybro. Pass the joint?

A man can't tell me an experience is an illusion merely because of the limitations of his world view. Anybody who thinks they can get by that easily is not a matter of note, or of concern to me. I don't have to wallow in speculation and intentions to pervert the topic. I know what I know. Everyody in here has to lean on their opinions to put on like they're an authority speaking on the matter.

I said pass the joint, you're being selfish.

I've told one man he didn't know what he was talking about. Anybody who is where they are on the topic is where they are. What I do known is I'm the only one in here who was in the loop of the Entity case investigation during the time of the happening.

Coolstorybro, except I was there unlike you. I was one of the investigators. And I saw nothing, and the other investigators told me it was a scam to make money. Now, when you argue against me, look at what you've claimed at the same time.

Nobody can talk to me as if they're minds have been frozen in an igloo.

You REALLY need to pass on that joint.

Stupidity and imbecilic mental games have no affect on me. I'm on the level of this topic that has proven, in a controlled experiment that extra-dimensional life does exist. What can a Simpleton on the topic tell me on this topic? An extra-dimensional being materialized in a controlled experiment, meeting standardized criterion of a scientific investigation.

Everything was in place for the experiment, the experimental design was correct in its construction. $200,000 in grant funds were awarded, based on field notes and measures from the field investigations. The case was investigated by two universities, UCLA Neuropsychiatric Institute and California School of Professional Psychology.. The central figures investigating the case were MDs, Phds and Graduate students. I was a graduate student. I obtained my MA the same year of the experiment. I was in direct communication with Dr. Elizabeth Cooley. Dr. Cooley was a Jewish woman, I'd say in her late forties at the time. She talked matter of factly about The Event. She and other witnesses, including psychiatrists and MDs on mocked her working the case as a paranormal phenomenon. Some of those men saw the being materialize. They never had a disparaging word to say to Dr. Cooley after that, seeing the Entity materialize shut their mouths on this topic.

Coolstorybro, but all of what you said was unsubstantiated, because half of what you said is wrong.

I read the comments in here, a number reminding me of some people's attitudes on this topic. You think there are no immaterial beings? I can say you are a fool for not knowing or admitting that these things are real. I know they're real, what happened here in Los Angeles in the Entity case is nobody's business to be joking about. To me that exhibits the greatest depths of ignorance and disrespect. This is a reality being written about in this string. The Magpie mentality that some assume is what it is. Make sure you're not the lummy in this.

Seriously, pass the joint, you're going to get permanent brain damage.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...