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Atheist's opinion on faith

baggins
Posts: 855
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4/5/2012 9:26:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I just thought up this thread. If it works we can try the converse...

The atheists on this forum have to tell us one the thing they hate most about religion or religious people and one thing they like most about religion or religious people.

There will be no counter questions, objections, clarifications (or any response whatever) from theists. We just want to hear what you have to say.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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4/5/2012 9:30:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 9:26:19 AM, baggins wrote:
I just thought up this thread. If it works we can try the converse...

The atheists on this forum have to tell us one the thing they hate most about religion or religious people and one thing they like most about religion or religious people.

There will be no counter questions, objections, clarifications (or any response whatever) from theists. We just want to hear what you have to say.

Hate About Religion: That it exists.
Hate About Religious People: That they are religious
Like About Religion: Nothing
Like About Religion: Generally speaking, almost always able to overcome the handicap of being religious to do the right thing.

What does this have to do with faith?
baggins
Posts: 855
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4/5/2012 9:59:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 9:30:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
What does this have to do with faith?

I use faith and religion as synonym. That should not be an issue in this thread though.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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4/5/2012 12:47:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 9:26:19 AM, baggins wrote:
There will be no counter questions, objections, clarifications (or any response whatever) from theists. We just want to hear what you have to say.
Well, you can control what you say but not other theists.
********************************

At 4/5/2012 9:30:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
Hate About Religion: That it exists.
Why?

Hate About Religious People: That they are religious
Why?

Like About Religion: Nothing
So you do not like charity?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
baggins
Posts: 855
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4/5/2012 1:08:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 12:47:40 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 4/5/2012 9:26:19 AM, baggins wrote:
There will be no counter questions, objections, clarifications (or any response whatever) from theists. We just want to hear what you have to say.
Well, you can control what you say but not other theists.
********************************

I cannot control other theists. But I can humbly request.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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4/5/2012 1:08:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hate about faith: In a sense, 'dogmatic certainty'. This manifests itself in some religious people, but definitely not all. If you are unwillingly to consider another person's beliefs, while explicitly telling them they are wrong, I think that's a sour attitude.

Like about faith
: I find it endlessly fascinating. I think it's helped push certain developments in mankind. I'm thinking of the societal shift that Christianity helped cause during the first few centuries AD (once it came into power, I think the effect fizzled).
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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4/5/2012 1:17:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 12:47:40 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 4/5/2012 9:26:19 AM, baggins wrote:
There will be no counter questions, objections, clarifications (or any response whatever) from theists. We just want to hear what you have to say.
Well, you can control what you say but not other theists.
********************************

At 4/5/2012 9:30:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
Hate About Religion: That it exists.
Why?

It's irrational and harmful.


Hate About Religious People: That they are religious
Why?

Because of my feelings on religion (See above)


Like About Religion: Nothing
So you do not like charity?

What does charity have to do with religion?
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/5/2012 2:08:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hate about fundamentalist faith: The fact that it can make good people do bad things, it makes people politically and philosophically apathetic and allows their faith and almost always the faith's icons make decisions for them. It makes scepticism into something to be feared, or something that a religious person cannot be.

Hate about the characteristic of fundamentalist faith in others: It single handedly destroys the idea of personal liberty, and traps someone into a painful, degrading lifestyle following a heteronomous state of affairs. It removes the traits of reason, liberty and personal responsibility, in short.

Like about fundamentalist faith: Lacking things I like about it.. I dislike fundamentalist faith causing charity, because not only is it using a middle man and therefore getting less to the people in need, but more importantly one donates to your faith, and then they help the people in need, which is as bad as not giving. I like Judaism's system of donating to the charities and not the churches; at least there's some sense there...

Like about fundamentalists: One can be fundamentally attracted to a specific ideal, and sometimes the ideal is good. See above for what I say when I learn why they are doing this though.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/5/2012 2:54:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think David Icke was right when he called them "prison religions."

Religions wall off the mind, trap it into one paradigm, and create a thought process that instinctively rejects anything that conflicts with it. Religion ties these dogmatic beliefs to emotion so that it is even harder to shake the belief or get them to question it. It is counter to open and free thinking. They have decided the answer without a genuine investigation or contemplation.

The other problem is that the religious think their absurd, unfalsifiable beliefs are so obviously true and that anyone who disagrees is a heathen or an idiot. This is very bothersome.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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4/5/2012 2:59:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 1:17:23 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 4/5/2012 12:47:40 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 4/5/2012 9:26:19 AM, baggins wrote:
There will be no counter questions, objections, clarifications (or any response whatever) from theists. We just want to hear what you have to say.
Well, you can control what you say but not other theists.
********************************

At 4/5/2012 9:30:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
Hate About Religion: That it exists.
Why?

It's irrational and harmful.


Hate About Religious People: That they are religious
Why?

Because of my feelings on religion (See above)


Like About Religion: Nothing
So you do not like charity?

What does charity have to do with religion?

There are thousands of charities based around religion. Just one search, 'catholic charities' on Google (http://goo.gl...) produces millions of results. That's at least one thing to 'like' about one religion...
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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4/5/2012 3:00:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 2:54:01 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I think David Icke was right when he called them "prison religions."

Religions wall off the mind, trap it into one paradigm, and create a thought process that instinctively rejects anything that conflicts with it. Religion ties these dogmatic beliefs to emotion so that it is even harder to shake the belief or get them to question it. It is counter to open and free thinking. They have decided the answer without a genuine investigation or contemplation.

The other problem is that the religious think their absurd, unfalsifiable beliefs are so obviously true and that anyone who disagrees is a heathen or an idiot. This is very bothersome.

Prison religions is probably what I'm criticising: I just call them fundamentalists. Vardy does great work on this subject, and explained and exposed a lot to me.

That last sentence is basically what makes me really pissed off with many, many fundamentalists.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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4/5/2012 3:20:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What I like about religion: It keeps people in line who are too weak to be moral on their own without fear of Hell, and it comforts people who feel that life wouldn't be worth living without it. It also makes people feel they have someone looking out for them all the time and this is a good thing to many people.

What I don't like about religion: It devalues the one and only life we most likely have my making some imaginary afterlife seem like the grand prize, it separates people from other religions and causes conflict, and it teaches things which are almost certainly not true and contradict science.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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4/5/2012 3:43:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 2:59:52 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 4/5/2012 1:17:23 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 4/5/2012 12:47:40 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 4/5/2012 9:26:19 AM, baggins wrote:
There will be no counter questions, objections, clarifications (or any response whatever) from theists. We just want to hear what you have to say.
Well, you can control what you say but not other theists.
********************************

At 4/5/2012 9:30:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
Hate About Religion: That it exists.
Why?

It's irrational and harmful.


Hate About Religious People: That they are religious
Why?

Because of my feelings on religion (See above)


Like About Religion: Nothing
So you do not like charity?

What does charity have to do with religion?

There are thousands of charities based around religion. Just one search, 'catholic charities' on Google (http://goo.gl...) produces millions of results. That's at least one thing to 'like' about one religion...

And there are thousands of nonreligious charities. I already said I like the fact that people can be good despite their religion.
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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4/5/2012 3:49:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 3:43:26 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 4/5/2012 2:59:52 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 4/5/2012 1:17:23 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 4/5/2012 12:47:40 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 4/5/2012 9:26:19 AM, baggins wrote:
There will be no counter questions, objections, clarifications (or any response whatever) from theists. We just want to hear what you have to say.
Well, you can control what you say but not other theists.
********************************

At 4/5/2012 9:30:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
Hate About Religion: That it exists.
Why?

It's irrational and harmful.


Hate About Religious People: That they are religious
Why?

Because of my feelings on religion (See above)


Like About Religion: Nothing
So you do not like charity?

What does charity have to do with religion?

There are thousands of charities based around religion. Just one search, 'catholic charities' on Google (http://goo.gl...) produces millions of results. That's at least one thing to 'like' about one religion...



And there are thousands of nonreligious charities. I already said I like the fact that people can be good despite their religion.

No, I don't deny there are thousands of nonreligious charities. But the question "what does charity have to do with religion?" has been answered. I just think it's irrational to hate literally everything about religion.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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4/5/2012 3:50:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 2:08:30 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Hate about fundamentalist faith: The fact that it can make good people do bad things, it makes people politically and philosophically apathetic and allows their faith and almost always the faith's icons make decisions for them. It makes scepticism into something to be feared, or something that a religious person cannot be.

I'm pretty sure you can substitute any belief or lack-there-of here, and find truth in it. This is what i hate about 'so-called' skepticism; they are just as bigotted as they claim others to be. A true skeptic, must remain skeptical, and ultimately live a very uncertain life, with no actual foundation or rock to stand on.

We're all in this swamp called life, and people of faith have a rock to stand on (just keeping their lips above water) and the skeptic or non-believing few have an insatiable desire to bring everyone down with them.

Hate about the characteristic of fundamentalist faith in others: It single handedly destroys the idea of personal liberty, and traps someone into a painful, degrading lifestyle following a heteronomous state of affairs. It removes the traits of reason, liberty and personal responsibility, in short.

Well in short; thats bullsh*t.

Maybe you are just speaking generally, but i know my faith, destroy's nothing but what needs to be destroyed in me.

I am not a robot nor a drone - I reason the same as you, i have just as much liberty as you, and i am almost sure i have more responsibility.

Like about fundamentalist faith: Lacking things I like about it.. I dislike fundamentalist faith causing charity, because not only is it using a middle man and therefore getting less to the people in need, but more importantly one donates to your faith, and then they help the people in need, which is as bad as not giving. I like Judaism's system of donating to the charities and not the churches; at least there's some sense there...

this makes no sense. You sound like a person full of unreasonalbe distain for an idea. You blind hatred seems to hinder your ability to reason appropriately.

Like about fundamentalists: One can be fundamentally attracted to a specific ideal, and sometimes the ideal is good. See above for what I say when I learn why they are doing this though.


in other words, it's good when you agree with it.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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4/5/2012 3:53:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If people have a spiritual side and wish to incorporate faith into their lives, I have absolutely no problem with that. Faith, along with cultural practices, art, poetry, and music, have their appropriate places in society.

I am against people who actively try to "disprove" tenets of faith using science and logic because it is nonsensical. On the flip side, I think that faith has no place in the objective progression of technology, science, or the material growth of humanity whatsoever and if people start trying to squish parts of their faith into the material world, they have to be stopped.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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4/5/2012 4:08:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not an atheist, but I don't like clergy(or religious institutions for that matter). Why? They're corrupted, manipulate their followers, and are the ones responsible for instigating most of the vile things done by religious followers. Besides, we have brains and most of us are literate; instead of blinding following what clergy say like little sheep we should be analyzing and intepretating things for ourselves. Yes I realize most people were illiterate in medieval times so clergy actually served a purpose, but since that is no longer the case, they're no longer needed.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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4/5/2012 5:27:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I wouldn't know, as there aren't any non-religious people in the world I could compare all the religious ones to.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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4/5/2012 5:35:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 12:47:40 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 4/5/2012 9:26:19 AM, baggins wrote:
There will be no counter questions, objections, clarifications (or any response whatever) from theists. We just want to hear what you have to say.
Well, you can control what you say but not other theists.
********************************

At 4/5/2012 9:30:24 AM, drafterman wrote:
Hate About Religion: That it exists.
Why?

Hate About Religious People: That they are religious
Why?

Like About Religion: Nothing
So you do not like charity?

Religious Charity are only for those who will accept thier religion.. They go after the weak and the sick. IF they reject the Religion the they wont help them. There is nothing honest about it. They are missionaries
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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4/5/2012 8:45:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 5:27:17 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I wouldn't know, as there aren't any non-religious people in the world I could compare all the religious ones to.

Also true!
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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4/5/2012 8:48:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Something tells me (by the first few posts) that Theists will be much more gracious to Atheists, than Atheists will be to Theists.
OMGJustinBieber
Posts: 3,484
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4/5/2012 8:52:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 9:26:19 AM, baggins wrote:
I just thought up this thread. If it works we can try the converse...

The atheists on this forum have to tell us one the thing they hate most about religion or religious people and one thing they like most about religion or religious people.

There will be no counter questions, objections, clarifications (or any response whatever) from theists. We just want to hear what you have to say.

I'd be happy to start a dialogue with a religious person so scratch that last paragraph. The thing that annoys me besides the bad deeds that have occurred under it would be the personification of God as a wrathful deity who takes an intense personal interest in Earthly affairs. It's no surprise this type of God leads to followers who seek to emulate his own nature on the battlefield.

For "like" I would say the sense of meaning that is instilled and the ability to encourage people to think and wrestle with fundamental questions (if done properly, of course.)
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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4/5/2012 8:58:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 8:48:03 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
Something tells me (by the first few posts) that Theists will be much more gracious to Atheists, than Atheists will be to Theists.

Thats right 1500 years of murder. makes that even more clear.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
KeytarHero
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4/5/2012 9:00:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 8:58:32 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 4/5/2012 8:48:03 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
Something tells me (by the first few posts) that Theists will be much more gracious to Atheists, than Atheists will be to Theists.

Thats right 1500 years of murder. makes that even more clear.

Am I a murderer? If some Christians throughout history have been murderers, why would you hold that against me? If men do wrong, it is the men that are to blame, not the religion which teaches the opposite of how they act.

Besides, atheism is responsible for more evil than religion is (I'm looking at you, Communist Russia and China).
InsertNameHere
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4/5/2012 9:02:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 9:00:08 PM, KeytarHero wrote:

Besides, atheism is responsible for more evil than religion is (I'm looking at you, Communist Russia and China).

Communist regimes didn't commit their crimes in the name of atheism, just saying. Sure, religion was suppressed, but that was because of Marxist ideology rather than atheism.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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4/5/2012 9:02:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 9:00:08 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/5/2012 8:58:32 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 4/5/2012 8:48:03 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
Something tells me (by the first few posts) that Theists will be much more gracious to Atheists, than Atheists will be to Theists.

Thats right 1500 years of murder. makes that even more clear.

Am I a murderer? If some Christians throughout history have been murderers, why would you hold that against me? If men do wrong, it is the men that are to blame, not the religion which teaches the opposite of how they act.

Besides, atheism is responsible for more evil than religion is (I'm looking at you, Communist Russia and China)

That doesn't even make sense. Atheist is a non-belief. Actions from an Athiest are not do to a belief in anything .. Its and asymmetric relationhip.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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4/5/2012 9:05:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 9:02:45 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 4/5/2012 9:00:08 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/5/2012 8:58:32 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 4/5/2012 8:48:03 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
Something tells me (by the first few posts) that Theists will be much more gracious to Atheists, than Atheists will be to Theists.

Thats right 1500 years of murder. makes that even more clear.

Am I a murderer? If some Christians throughout history have been murderers, why would you hold that against me? If men do wrong, it is the men that are to blame, not the religion which teaches the opposite of how they act.

Besides, atheism is responsible for more evil than religion is (I'm looking at you, Communist Russia and China)

That doesn't even make sense. Atheist is a non-belief. Actions from an Athiest are not do to a belief in anything .. Its and asymmetric relationhip.

That is as Athiest my actions as such would be for ethical or political reason. But not athiest Reasons.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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4/5/2012 9:05:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 9:02:45 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 4/5/2012 9:00:08 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/5/2012 8:58:32 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 4/5/2012 8:48:03 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
Something tells me (by the first few posts) that Theists will be much more gracious to Atheists, than Atheists will be to Theists.

Thats right 1500 years of murder. makes that even more clear.

Am I a murderer? If some Christians throughout history have been murderers, why would you hold that against me? If men do wrong, it is the men that are to blame, not the religion which teaches the opposite of how they act.

Besides, atheism is responsible for more evil than religion is (I'm looking at you, Communist Russia and China)

That doesn't even make sense. Atheist is a non-belief. Actions from an Athiest are not do to a belief in anything .. Its and asymmetric relationhip.

Atheism is not a non-belief. That's atheist double-talk. Atheism is a belief that there is no God. God cannot be empirically proven or disproven. Therefore, to believe or not to believe in God requires belief.
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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4/5/2012 9:07:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/5/2012 9:02:14 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 4/5/2012 9:00:08 PM, KeytarHero wrote:

Besides, atheism is responsible for more evil than religion is (I'm looking at you, Communist Russia and China).

Communist regimes didn't commit their crimes in the name of atheism, just saying. Sure, religion was suppressed, but that was because of Marxist ideology rather than atheism.

Sure it is. Christians throughout history have been murdered for their beliefs by atheists. History is paved with the blood of Christian martyrs.

But he still hasn't answered the question. Why hold the evil actions of some who claim to be Christians against me, who actually takes my beliefs seriously? Christianity is a religion of peace. Not everyone who claims to be Christian is actually Christian. Religions has been used to coerce others to join their cause, but this doesn't prove religion is evil just that evil men have misused it as a means to an end.