Total Posts:17|Showing Posts:1-17
Jump to topic:

Theological Explanation of Hell and Heaven.

Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/6/2012 7:29:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
ITT, we assume Christianity.

What do you theists think about the portrayal of hell, and do you think that it is accurate?

Here's my explanation.

God is part of everything, and we are all a part of God. Our connection to God exists whether we sin or not, but we can never fully be part of God due to the fact that we are constantly sinning. When we die, life is gone but the soul remains. The soul must be pure in order for it to join with God completely. This act of joining God is heaven.

The association of Heaven with cleanliness, peace, beauty, opulence, and pleasure is just allegory. All of these things are material wants and needs. Heaven is not a place, but a state of being one with God. The only way we can understand it is by making the claim that it is the ultimate pleasure, which is probably a very big stretch.

Conversely, Hell is a state of being wholly without God. Whereas in life, we always maintained some connection, a tainted soul without life is wholly without God. The connection has been completely ripped. Hell is likened to a pit of fire and suffering, and this is yet another allegory. Immense pain is what we compare it to, but it is probably much, much worse, to be in this state of "godlessness".

Discuss?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/6/2012 7:52:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/6/2012 7:29:56 PM, Kleptin wrote:
ITT, we assume Christianity.

What do you theists think about the portrayal of hell, and do you think that it is accurate?

Here's my explanation.

God is part of everything, and we are all a part of God. Our connection to God exists whether we sin or not, but we can never fully be part of God due to the fact that we are constantly sinning. When we die, life is gone but the soul remains. The soul must be pure in order for it to join with God completely. This act of joining God is heaven.

You must define pure here. But from what is prevailant in the scriptures - Righteousness is what is needed to be welcomed into his kingdom. Since we are not righteous (rom. 3:10) then we need atonement; Christ. We are clothed in his Righteousness, and yes your description of heaven as a union with God could definately could be interpreted as such.


The association of Heaven with cleanliness, peace, beauty, opulence, and pleasure is just allegory. All of these things are material wants and needs. Heaven is not a place, but a state of being one with God. The only way we can understand it is by making the claim that it is the ultimate pleasure, which is probably a very big stretch.

How is this a stretch? that sounds right.

Conversely, Hell is a state of being wholly without God. Whereas in life, we always maintained some connection, a tainted soul without life is wholly without God. The connection has been completely ripped. Hell is likened to a pit of fire and suffering, and this is yet another allegory. Immense pain is what we compare it to, but it is probably much, much worse, to be in this state of "godlessness".

This is a great description of hell.. not sure what to discuss here.

Hell is described as a place of torment.. Godlessness fits the bill.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/6/2012 8:01:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/6/2012 7:52:08 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
You must define pure here. But from what is prevailant in the scriptures - Righteousness is what is needed to be welcomed into his kingdom. Since we are not righteous (rom. 3:10) then we need atonement; Christ. We are clothed in his Righteousness, and yes your description of heaven as a union with God could definately could be interpreted as such.

That's it right here. Whatever it is that Christ did when he died, that's what we needed. Accepting Christ is that method of atonement or "purification"

How is this a stretch? that sounds right.

Haha, I meant the comparison to heaven as something being "pleasurable" in the same way that sex or food is pleasurable is a big stretch :P

This is a great description of hell.. not sure what to discuss here.
Hell is described as a place of torment.. Godlessness fits the bill.

Huh, I guess I did a pretty good job here, didn't I?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2012 1:07:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/7/2012 12:40:08 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
that's pantheism

If you only read the first 8 words, perhaps.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2012 5:51:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah the first sentence definitely sounds a lot like pantheism. I do not think that the bible supports the statement "we are all a part of God."
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/7/2012 8:12:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/7/2012 5:51:30 PM, stubs wrote:
Yeah the first sentence definitely sounds a lot like pantheism. I do not think that the bible supports the statement "we are all a part of God."

Pantheism is the notion that the entirety of God is the universe. This is not pantheism.

But if it irks you, I'll just change it to "We are all children of God". Doesn't alter the part of my post that actually matters in any way.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
baggins
Posts: 855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/9/2012 10:50:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I do not understand what kind of 'theological explanation' is needed for heaven and hell.

Heaven is the place we go if we obey God and do good deeds. It is a desirable place. Hell is the place for those who do not obey God and do bad deeds. It is an undesirable place.

Since we do not what will be our physical or spiritual form in next life, it is impossible to understand exactly what heaven and hell will be like. It is explained to us in form of similes which we can understand. Heaven is described as a place of pleasure. It is compared to a garden with river. Hell is presented as place of pain. It is described as a huge fire.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/9/2012 10:53:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
@Baggins

We can't give a detailed description really, but Hell is a place where God is not. Thats basically it. There is no hope, good, happiness, or anything. Hell is, to put it simply, the absence of God.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/9/2012 10:56:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/6/2012 7:29:56 PM, Kleptin wrote:
ITT, we assume Christianity.

What do you theists think about the portrayal of hell, and do you think that it is accurate?

Here's my explanation.

God is part of everything, and we are all a part of God. Our connection to God exists whether we sin or not, but we can never fully be part of God due to the fact that we are constantly sinning. When we die, life is gone but the soul remains. The soul must be pure in order for it to join with God completely. This act of joining God is heaven.

The association of Heaven with cleanliness, peace, beauty, opulence, and pleasure is just allegory. All of these things are material wants and needs. Heaven is not a place, but a state of being one with God. The only way we can understand it is by making the claim that it is the ultimate pleasure, which is probably a very big stretch.

Conversely, Hell is a state of being wholly without God. Whereas in life, we always maintained some connection, a tainted soul without life is wholly without God. The connection has been completely ripped. Hell is likened to a pit of fire and suffering, and this is yet another allegory. Immense pain is what we compare it to, but it is probably much, much worse, to be in this state of "godlessness".

Discuss?

I approve.
baggins
Posts: 855
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/9/2012 11:07:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 10:53:14 AM, OberHerr wrote:
@Baggins

We can't give a detailed description really, but Hell is a place where God is not. Thats basically it. There is no hope, good, happiness, or anything. Hell is, to put it simply, the absence of God.

Is that your personal opinion, or do you have any backing for this from the scriptures.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/9/2012 11:16:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/6/2012 7:29:56 PM, Kleptin wrote:
ITT, we assume Christianity.

What do you theists think about the portrayal of hell, and do you think that it is accurate?

Here's my explanation.

God is part of everything, and we are all a part of God. Our connection to God exists whether we sin or not, but we can never fully be part of God due to the fact that we are constantly sinning. When we die, life is gone but the soul remains. The soul must be pure in order for it to join with God completely. This act of joining God is heaven.

The association of Heaven with cleanliness, peace, beauty, opulence, and pleasure is just allegory. All of these things are material wants and needs. Heaven is not a place, but a state of being one with God. The only way we can understand it is by making the claim that it is the ultimate pleasure, which is probably a very big stretch.

Conversely, Hell is a state of being wholly without God. Whereas in life, we always maintained some connection, a tainted soul without life is wholly without God. The connection has been completely ripped. Hell is likened to a pit of fire and suffering, and this is yet another allegory. Immense pain is what we compare it to, but it is probably much, much worse, to be in this state of "godlessness".

Discuss?

I always thought the freedom of the soul from its material body constituted enlightenment. That is, the soul overcomes its bodily needs and restrictions, without the body dying.
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/9/2012 1:06:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 12:55:11 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
Being with my toes is eternal life; being separated from my toes is eternal death.
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/9/2012 1:40:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 1:06:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 4/9/2012 12:55:11 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
Being with my toes is eternal life; being separated from my toes is eternal death.

lol, yeah, they are sublime.
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/9/2012 3:21:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/9/2012 2:39:31 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
Why does the idea of godlessness seem better than being burned by eternal fire?

who said it seemed better? for many, those ideas are one in the same.

anyways, what matters is the truth, not what seems better.
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...