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Ex-Communicated 9 Year Old

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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7/20/2009 8:39:32 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Back in March, news spread about this 9 year old girl in Brazil who was raped and subsequently impregnated by her step-father with twins. The decision was made for her to have an abortion. Almost immediately, the head clergy in her diocese ex-communicated her, as abortion is considered a mortal sin and that is the usual punishment for anyone who has one. Recently, Pope Benedict XVI issued a statement where he once again backed up the clergy's decision to excommunicate her immediately.

This, to me, seems entirely harsh, immoral and as Un-Christianlike as you can get! The church's point was that there are definitive rules and you can't bend them in a situation just because it is the most convenient thing to go. Rules aren't supposed to be situational, they said, but absolute. After all, they are not suggestions but rather rules to live by. I understand that, but...

A 9 year old is not physically able to carry a child let alone twins (there are a lot of biological factors that prohibit it from giving the fetuses the nutrition and support they would need, etc.). Moreover, doesn't the Christian principles of tolerance, love and forgiveness ring superior over punishment and evil? Having the abortion was not her decision, I'm sure, so once again she is being punished for something out of her control. She was abused, raped and put in a situation where she was responsible for the pending death of 2 babies (they would have died either way) and her own life was in harm if she tried to carry them to term.

This situation is awful and there are no easy answers. Still, I believe there's a right one (and the Church didn't choose it... surprise surprise). Causing the little girl additional harm by taking her religious affiliation away (she comes from a very religious community and that is all she knows) is just punishing her even more. Sure she could still have her faith, but after this ordeal, would YOU?
President of DDO
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/20/2009 8:56:24 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/20/2009 8:39:32 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Back in March, news spread about this 9 year old girl in Brazil who was raped and subsequently impregnated by her step-father with twins. The decision was made for her to have an abortion. Almost immediately, the head clergy in her diocese ex-communicated her, as abortion is considered a mortal sin and that is the usual punishment for anyone who has one. Recently, Pope Benedict XVI issued a statement where he once again backed up the clergy's decision to excommunicate her immediately.

This, to me, seems entirely harsh, immoral and as Un-Christianlike as you can get! The church's point was that there are definitive rules and you can't bend them in a situation just because it is the most convenient thing to go. Rules aren't supposed to be situational, they said, but absolute. After all, they are not suggestions but rather rules to live by. I understand that, but...

A 9 year old is not physically able to carry a child let alone twins (there are a lot of biological factors that prohibit it from giving the fetuses the nutrition and support they would need, etc.). Moreover, doesn't the Christian principles of tolerance, love and forgiveness ring superior over punishment and evil? Having the abortion was not her decision, I'm sure, so once again she is being punished for something out of her control. She was abused, raped and put in a situation where she was responsible for the pending death of 2 babies (they would have died either way) and her own life was in harm if she tried to carry them to term.

This situation is awful and there are no easy answers. Still, I believe there's a right one (and the Church didn't choose it... surprise surprise). Causing the little girl additional harm by taking her religious affiliation away (she comes from a very religious community and that is all she knows) is just punishing her even more. Sure she could still have her faith, but after this ordeal, would YOU?

What are YOUR motives for posting this?
WHO are you listening to? WHOSE influence are you under?

Let ME enlighten you: This is garden variety SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.
WHENEVER we point the finger at someone and say "BAD!" we are REALLY only pointing at ourselves and saying "GOOD!".

NOW, to add the MURDER of a completely INNOCENT unborn CHILD on top of the tragedy of rape/abuse is only making an intolerable situation even WORSE.
As for the whole 'ex-communication' thing it's an unbiblical nonsense like most of catholic churchs views.

James4:7
THERFORE
s
u
b
m
i
t
to God
r
e
s
i
s
t
the devil
a
n
d
he will flee from you.
The Cross.. the Cross.
giantrobot11
Posts: 17
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7/22/2009 5:04:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
If the church didn't take a negative stand on it, they would look rather weak and probably end up with a revolution on their hands.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/23/2009 4:41:37 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/22/2009 5:04:12 PM, giantrobot11 wrote:
If the church didn't take a negative stand on it, they would look rather weak and probably end up with a revolution on their hands.

You are either in-line with the Word of God or you are not.
The Word says " I knew you before you were conceived. " and " I stitched you together in your mothers womb. "

Deuteronomy30:14
B
U
T
the
W
O
R
D
is very near you, in your
M
O
U
T
H
and in your
H
E
A
R
T
that you
M
A
Y
do it.
The Cross.. the Cross.
sherlockmethod
Posts: 317
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7/23/2009 10:46:34 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
L,
I agree the church made a mistake here and did not address the matter correctly. This girl's family let her down and the church followed in line. I am sure situations like this occur due to guilt. One of the tenets of self righteousness is the absurd belief that people get into situations by their own feel will. Bad things happens because individuals put themselves in bad situations. Ex communicating this little girl absolved the members of the community from having to defend themselves with such absurdities as used concerning adult females when raped, such as, "she was asking for it" and "Why was she there anyway", etc. When situations occur that show absolute principles to be in jeopardy, the self righteous remove them and ignore them. Very sad.
Library cards: Stopping stupid one book at a time.
Osiris
Posts: 265
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7/23/2009 11:07:10 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
And this is why I do not follow any religion. I think it is beyond ridiculous punish a child for things that were out of her control. She was betrayed by her stepfather, by her family, and by her religion (church). Those twins would have died and the mother as well. If there were any rationality in the church they would've understood this and "forgiven" her of whatever it is they do. Decisions were made that were not her own. Why should she, a child, be punished.
"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/23/2009 10:47:07 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/23/2009 11:07:10 AM, Osiris wrote:
And this is why I do not follow any religion. I think it is beyond ridiculous punish a child for things that were out of her control. She was betrayed by her stepfather, by her family, and by her religion (church). Those twins would have died and the mother as well. If there were any rationality in the church they would've understood this and "forgiven" her of whatever it is they do. Decisions were made that were not her own. Why should she, a child, be punished.

It is not a question of punishment BUT of acting responsibly under already intolerable circumstances: God had a plan and purpose for those twins.
What RIGHT does anyone have to take that away from them?

Proverbs9:10
The fear of the Lord is the
b
e
g
i
n
n
i
n
g
of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One
i
s
understanding.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Osiris
Posts: 265
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7/24/2009 1:28:56 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/23/2009 10:47:07 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/23/2009 11:07:10 AM, Osiris wrote:
And this is why I do not follow any religion. I think it is beyond ridiculous punish a child for things that were out of her control. She was betrayed by her stepfather, by her family, and by her religion (church). Those twins would have died and the mother as well. If there were any rationality in the church they would've understood this and "forgiven" her of whatever it is they do. Decisions were made that were not her own. Why should she, a child, be punished.

It is not a question of punishment BUT of acting responsibly under already intolerable circumstances: God had a plan and purpose for those twins.
What RIGHT does anyone have to take that away from them?

Proverbs9:10
The fear of the Lord is the
b
e
g
i
n
n
i
n
g
of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One
i
s
understanding.


DATC seriously, those twins would have died in that young girl's womb. Her body is not able to carry a child or yet alone two children to term. She would've died along with the twins.
"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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7/24/2009 6:57:18 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Lol if God controls EVERYTHING and we have NO free will, then he planed the abortion of those twins.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Osiris
Posts: 265
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7/24/2009 9:31:08 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/24/2009 6:57:18 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Lol if God controls EVERYTHING and we have NO free will, then he planed the abortion of those twins.

Rofl.
"Common sense is not so common." -Voltaire
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/24/2009 2:53:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/24/2009 6:57:18 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Lol if God controls EVERYTHING and we have NO free will, then he planed the abortion of those twins.

But we do have free will. Obviously.

You CHOSE not to use the spellcheck. See?

Joshua1:9
Have I not commanded DATCMOTO?
B
E
strong and of good courage; do
N
O
T
be afraid,
N
O
R
be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with DATCMOTO
W
H
E
R
E
V
E
R
you go.
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/24/2009 2:55:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/24/2009 1:28:56 AM, Osiris wrote:
At 7/23/2009 10:47:07 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/23/2009 11:07:10 AM, Osiris wrote:
And this is why I do not follow any religion. I think it is beyond ridiculous punish a child for things that were out of her control. She was betrayed by her stepfather, by her family, and by her religion (church). Those twins would have died and the mother as well. If there were any rationality in the church they would've understood this and "forgiven" her of whatever it is they do. Decisions were made that were not her own. Why should she, a child, be punished.

It is not a question of punishment BUT of acting responsibly under already intolerable circumstances: God had a plan and purpose for those twins.
What RIGHT does anyone have to take that away from them?

Proverbs9:10
The fear of the Lord is the
b
e
g
i
n
n
i
n
g
of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One
i
s
understanding.


DATC seriously, those twins would have died in that young girl's womb. Her body is not able to carry a child or yet alone two children to term. She would've died along with the twins.

Her body is able to become pregnant but NOT carry the babies to term?
Just HOW many excuses to murder the unborn to you need?

Joshua1:9
Have I not commanded DATCMOTO?
B
E
strong and of good courage; do
N
O
T
be afraid,
N
O
R
be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with DATCMOTO
W
H
E
R
E
V
E
R
you go.
The Cross.. the Cross.
LB628
Posts: 176
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7/24/2009 2:57:59 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/24/2009 2:55:24 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/24/2009 1:28:56 AM, Osiris wrote:
At 7/23/2009 10:47:07 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/23/2009 11:07:10 AM, Osiris wrote:
And this is why I do not follow any religion. I think it is beyond ridiculous punish a child for things that were out of her control. She was betrayed by her stepfather, by her family, and by her religion (church). Those twins would have died and the mother as well. If there were any rationality in the church they would've understood this and "forgiven" her of whatever it is they do. Decisions were made that were not her own. Why should she, a child, be punished.

It is not a question of punishment BUT of acting responsibly under already intolerable circumstances: God had a plan and purpose for those twins.
What RIGHT does anyone have to take that away from them?



DATC seriously, those twins would have died in that young girl's womb. Her body is not able to carry a child or yet alone two children to term. She would've died along with the twins.

Her body is able to become pregnant but NOT carry the babies to term?
Just HOW many excuses to murder the unborn to you need?

Because the requirements for becoming pregnant are different than those for carrying babies to term. Primarily, it is going to be a huge drain on resources to carry twins to term when you are 9 years old, and still growing.

Joshua1:9
Have I not commanded DATCMOTO?
B
E
strong and of good courage; do
N
O
T
be afraid,
N
O
R
be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with DATCMOTO
W
H
E
R
E
V
E
R
you go.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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7/24/2009 11:08:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/24/2009 2:57:59 PM, LB628 wrote:
At 7/24/2009 2:55:24 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/24/2009 1:28:56 AM, Osiris wrote:
At 7/23/2009 10:47:07 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/23/2009 11:07:10 AM, Osiris wrote:
And this is why I do not follow any religion. I think it is beyond ridiculous punish a child for things that were out of her control. She was betrayed by her stepfather, by her family, and by her religion (church). Those twins would have died and the mother as well. If there were any rationality in the church they would've understood this and "forgiven" her of whatever it is they do. Decisions were made that were not her own. Why should she, a child, be punished.

It is not a question of punishment BUT of acting responsibly under already intolerable circumstances: God had a plan and purpose for those twins.
What RIGHT does anyone have to take that away from them?



DATC seriously, those twins would have died in that young girl's womb. Her body is not able to carry a child or yet alone two children to term. She would've died along with the twins.

Her body is able to become pregnant but NOT carry the babies to term?
Just HOW many excuses to murder the unborn to you need?

Because the requirements for becoming pregnant are different than those for carrying babies to term. Primarily, it is going to be a huge drain on resources to carry twins to term when you are 9 years old, and still growing.

In what way are they different? Have you CHECKED to see if a 9 year old has EVER had twins? or will you just defend the murder of innocents regardless?

Jeremiah21:8
A
N
D
to
T
H
I
S
people
Y
O
U
shall say,
T
H
I
S
says the Lord; I set before you the way of
L
I
F
E
and the way of
D
E
A
T
H
.

The Cross.. the Cross.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/2/2009 9:57:52 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/24/2009 2:53:33 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/24/2009 6:57:18 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Lol if God controls EVERYTHING and we have NO free will, then he planed the abortion of those twins.

But we do have free will. Obviously.

You CHOSE not to use the spellcheck. See?


But you advocate god has total power.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/4/2009 12:37:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/2/2009 9:57:52 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 7/24/2009 2:53:33 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 7/24/2009 6:57:18 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Lol if God controls EVERYTHING and we have NO free will, then he planed the abortion of those twins.

But we do have free will. Obviously.

You CHOSE not to use the spellcheck. See?


But you advocate god has total power.

Yes, the power to choose to allow you to have free will.
The Cross.. the Cross.