Total Posts:14|Showing Posts:1-14
Jump to topic:

Mass Apparitions

Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/16/2012 12:00:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've been thinking about mass religious experiences. The fatima apparitions, mary apparitions, etc. Some of the stories are interesting to say the least. For example, there was a sighting in rwanda in 1984 where Mary comes to some teenagers to pray with them about a war. Many people took this as a warning for the genocide that took place 10 years later. There were many sightings in Rwanda in the 1980s. (found in the second link)

Question for the theists: Do you believe these sightings are credible proof of god, and if not do you personally take these sightings for what they claim to be? Why do these mass experiences happen with many different religious symbols? How do they differ from mass UFO sightings?

Questions for the atheists: How do you explain these occurrences?

http://www.portugal.com...

http://www.michaeljournal.org...
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/16/2012 12:08:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 12:00:17 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been thinking about mass religious experiences. The fatima apparitions, mary apparitions, etc. Some of the stories are interesting to say the least. For example, there was a sighting in rwanda in 1984 where Mary comes to some teenagers to pray with them about a war. Many people took this as a warning for the genocide that took place 10 years later. There were many sightings in Rwanda in the 1980s. (found in the second link)

Question for the theists: Do you believe these sightings are credible proof of god, and if not do you personally take these sightings for what they claim to be? Why do these mass experiences happen with many different religious symbols? How do they differ from mass UFO sightings?

Questions for the atheists: How do you explain these occurrences?

The situations are largely inscrutible. They are passed down through word of mouth and almost always occur in some backwater, remote, third-world country or equivilent. They are beyond the realm of critical analysis and are evidence of precisely nothing.

Possible explanations.

1. People are lying about what they saw.
2. Someone has defrauded them.
3. Misunderstanding/misperception about some natural event.
4. Insanity.



http://www.portugal.com...

http://www.michaeljournal.org...
CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/16/2012 12:17:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not a theist or an atheist. But I would explain these events logically as 'strange experiences'. As to say what or who they are, where they come from - is just not possible. Logic calls it a strange experience, nothing more.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/16/2012 12:38:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 12:00:17 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been thinking about mass religious experiences. The fatima apparitions, mary apparitions, etc. Some of the stories are interesting to say the least. For example, there was a sighting in rwanda in 1984 where Mary comes to some teenagers to pray with them about a war. Many people took this as a warning for the genocide that took place 10 years later. There were many sightings in Rwanda in the 1980s. (found in the second link)

Anecdotes.

Question for the theists: Do you believe these sightings are credible proof of god,

Proof of supernatural occurrences at best, proof of illusions at worst.

and if not do you personally take these sightings for what they claim to be? Why do these mass experiences happen with many different religious symbols?

A better question. Why do these miraculous sightings occur amongst many religions including those in the East. Are they all true because they have witnesses of religious apparitions?

How do they differ from mass UFO sightings?

Lets see, for one, UFO's get caught on camera, some are even captured by multiple witnesses of the same UFO. There's no contradictory problems that arise when UFO's are spotted (i.e. allegedly proving two contradictory religions to be true). UFO's can't be explained away as illusions or delusions, they are tangible.

Questions for the atheists: How do you explain these occurrences?

Theres no evidence that they happened. The could that I remember that were caught on film looked like nothing. It's a stretch like the Mary on toast.

.
.
.
.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/16/2012 1:16:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 12:00:17 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been thinking about mass religious experiences. The fatima apparitions, mary apparitions, etc. Some of the stories are interesting to say the least. For example, there was a sighting in rwanda in 1984 where Mary comes to some teenagers to pray with them about a war. Many people took this as a warning for the genocide that took place 10 years later. There were many sightings in Rwanda in the 1980s. (found in the second link)

Question for the theists: Do you believe these sightings are credible proof of god, and if not do you personally take these sightings for what they claim to be? Why do these mass experiences happen with many different religious symbols? How do they differ from mass UFO sightings?

Questions for the atheists: How do you explain these occurrences?


http://www.portugal.com...

http://www.michaeljournal.org...

The Fool: You don't they have to be proven first, a claim is a claim is a claim. people claimed zombies. We dont even have a real picture of Mary. lol they couldn't even know if it was here or not. She also spoke a language which I am sure was not thiers. Its not even plausible.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/16/2012 1:17:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 12:00:17 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been thinking about mass religious experiences. The fatima apparitions, mary apparitions, etc. Some of the stories are interesting to say the least. For example, there was a sighting in rwanda in 1984 where Mary comes to some teenagers to pray with them about a war. Many people took this as a warning for the genocide that took place 10 years later. There were many sightings in Rwanda in the 1980s. (found in the second link)

Question for the theists: Do you believe these sightings are credible proof of god, and if not do you personally take these sightings for what they claim to be? Why do these mass experiences happen with many different religious symbols? How do they differ from mass UFO sightings?

Questions for the atheists: How do you explain these occurrences?


http://www.portugal.com...

http://www.michaeljournal.org...

lol If you believe that you must think the world very mysterious.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/16/2012 3:31:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 12:00:17 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
Questions for the atheists: How do you explain these occurrences?

Lies or delusions.

If we took them as evidence of the Christian god, then, in order to avoid special pleading, we would have to accept similar occurrences as evidence for other gods. But that already leads to contradiction, since, if the Christian god exists, it is the only god.

It's like that card that says, "The statement on the other side of this card is true," on one side, and says, "The statement on the other side of this card is false," on the other. They can't both be right.

Therefore, since accepting anecdotal evidence of miracles leads to contradiction, we shouldn't do so.
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/16/2012 3:58:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 1:17:50 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 4/16/2012 12:00:17 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been thinking about mass religious experiences. The fatima apparitions, mary apparitions, etc. Some of the stories are interesting to say the least. For example, there was a sighting in rwanda in 1984 where Mary comes to some teenagers to pray with them about a war. Many people took this as a warning for the genocide that took place 10 years later. There were many sightings in Rwanda in the 1980s. (found in the second link)

Question for the theists: Do you believe these sightings are credible proof of god, and if not do you personally take these sightings for what they claim to be? Why do these mass experiences happen with many different religious symbols? How do they differ from mass UFO sightings?

Questions for the atheists: How do you explain these occurrences?


http://www.portugal.com...

http://www.michaeljournal.org...

lol If you believe that you must think the world very mysterious.

i asked a question. i never said i believed it.
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/16/2012 7:20:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 12:00:17 PM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I've been thinking about mass religious experiences. The fatima apparitions, mary apparitions, etc. Some of the stories are interesting to say the least. For example, there was a sighting in rwanda in 1984 where Mary comes to some teenagers to pray with them about a war. Many people took this as a warning for the genocide that took place 10 years later. There were many sightings in Rwanda in the 1980s. (found in the second link)

Question for the theists: Do you believe these sightings are credible proof of god, and if not do you personally take these sightings for what they claim to be? Why do these mass experiences happen with many different religious symbols? How do they differ from mass UFO sightings?

Questions for the atheists: How do you explain these occurrences?


http://www.portugal.com...

http://www.michaeljournal.org...

Well, I can't find the source online as I believe I read it in a book, but there have been instances of false UFO sightings- purposeful false UFO sightings. And after the false sighting was told of, lo and behold, people reported that they had seen UFO's.

Humans are impressionable and our perceptions are not nearly as keen as we would like to think they are. That's why scientific inquiry is so important.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/16/2012 11:12:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/16/2012 10:13:59 PM, wiploc wrote:
Dave Barry, in his book _I Am Not Making This Up_ has the best explanation of UFO sightings that I'm aware of.

care to paraphrase?
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2012 1:14:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The perp was obviously faking the evidence, but he also seemed sincere.

We conclude that people who intensely believe something are sometimes willing to lie so that others may learn the truth.

In this case, he was faking UFO pictures because he believed that UFOs are real. But it applies to other situations too. Crop circles, fairies, gods, bigfoot.

I remember reading also about an international convention of crop circle believers. When the people who believed crop circles were real got together, it was obvious that they had faked them all. "Oh, you did that one? I did the one over there." But, amazingly, they still believed. Instead of believing that aliens made the crop circles, they believed that aliens caused them to make the crop circles. Something like that. True believers faking evidence so that others will know the truth.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
4/17/2012 1:15:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 1:14:00 AM, wiploc wrote:
The perp was obviously faking the evidence, but he also seemed sincere.

We conclude that people who intensely believe something are sometimes willing to lie so that others may learn the truth.

In this case, he was faking UFO pictures because he believed that UFOs are real. But it applies to other situations too. Crop circles, fairies, gods, bigfoot.

I remember reading also about an international convention of crop circle believers. When the people who believed crop circles were real got together, it was obvious that they had faked them all. "Oh, you did that one? I did the one over there." But, amazingly, they still believed. Instead of believing that aliens made the crop circles, they believed that aliens caused them to make the crop circles. Something like that. True believers faking evidence so that others will know the truth.

That's sad.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.