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Most powerful anti-Christianity Argument

seraine
Posts: 734
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4/17/2012 6:29:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think one of the most powerful arguments is not philosphical, but archeological/historical. I'm referring to the cult of Mithras. It shares some very obvious similarities with Christianity, such as

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

Source: http://www.sanfords.net...

The cult of Mithras was one of the most popular pagan religions, and this really shows how much they borrowed to make the transistion to another religion. If they borrowed it, Jesus must not have been divine.

Thoughts?
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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4/17/2012 6:42:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 6:29:11 PM, seraine wrote:
I think one of the most powerful arguments is not philosphical, but archeological/historical. I'm referring to the cult of Mithras. It shares some very obvious similarities with Christianity, such as

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

Source: http://www.sanfords.net...

The cult of Mithras was one of the most popular pagan religions, and this really shows how much they borrowed to make the transistion to another religion. If they borrowed it, Jesus must not have been divine.

Thoughts?

Not even close.

Jesus was not born on December 25th. He was born sometime during the Summer. December 25th was taken as Christmas because in the same way that Christ redeems sinners, the pagan holiday was, in essence, "redeemed" by celebrating Christ's birth on that day.

Now, I haven't studied Mithras so I can't respond to the other points as of yet. But that's a pretty glaring error in these alleged similarites.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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4/17/2012 6:47:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 6:38:52 PM, Contradiction wrote:
You're kidding, right?

How about instead of being annoying, you tell us what part of his argument do you object to?
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The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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4/17/2012 6:47:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 6:42:04 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:29:11 PM, seraine wrote:
I think one of the most powerful arguments is not philosphical, but archeological/historical. I'm referring to the cult of Mithras. It shares some very obvious similarities with Christianity, such as

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

Source: http://www.sanfords.net...

The cult of Mithras was one of the most popular pagan religions, and this really shows how much they borrowed to make the transistion to another religion. If they borrowed it, Jesus must not have been divine.

Thoughts?

Not even close.

Jesus was not born on December 25th. He was born sometime during the Summer. December 25th was taken as Christmas because in the same way that Christ redeems sinners, the pagan holiday was, in essence, "redeemed" by celebrating Christ's birth on that day.

Now, I haven't studied Mithras so I can't respond to the other points as of yet. But that's a pretty glaring error in these alleged similarites.

Its denfinity a problem in original idea. But is common that all 98 percent of the bible are from ideas of past religions, it was popular around the that time to create myths to keep a poplulation together.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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4/17/2012 6:56:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 6:47:58 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:42:04 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:29:11 PM, seraine wrote:
I think one of the most powerful arguments is not philosphical, but archeological/historical. I'm referring to the cult of Mithras. It shares some very obvious similarities with Christianity, such as

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

Source: http://www.sanfords.net...

The cult of Mithras was one of the most popular pagan religions, and this really shows how much they borrowed to make the transistion to another religion. If they borrowed it, Jesus must not have been divine.

Thoughts?

Not even close.

Jesus was not born on December 25th. He was born sometime during the Summer. December 25th was taken as Christmas because in the same way that Christ redeems sinners, the pagan holiday was, in essence, "redeemed" by celebrating Christ's birth on that day.

Now, I haven't studied Mithras so I can't respond to the other points as of yet. But that's a pretty glaring error in these alleged similarites.

Its denfinity a problem in original idea. But is common that all 98 percent of the bible are from ideas of past religions, it was popular around the that time to create myths to keep a poplulation together.

How can you make the claim that 98 percent of the Bible are from ideas of past religions? Do you have sources to back this up?

Additionally, I am aware that several cultures have some stories similar to Biblical accounts (such as a creation story and a global flood), but these accounts lend credibility to the probability that an event like that happened. So all that needs to be asked is which account is the correct one, or at least the closest one to what probably actually happened. I believe there are many good reasons to suppose the Biblical accounts to be the true ones.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/17/2012 6:57:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 6:42:04 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:29:11 PM, seraine wrote:
I think one of the most powerful arguments is not philosphical, but archeological/historical. I'm referring to the cult of Mithras. It shares some very obvious similarities with Christianity, such as

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

Source: http://www.sanfords.net...

The cult of Mithras was one of the most popular pagan religions, and this really shows how much they borrowed to make the transistion to another religion. If they borrowed it, Jesus must not have been divine.

Thoughts?

Not even close.

Jesus was not born on December 25th. He was born sometime during the Summer. December 25th was taken as Christmas because in the same way that Christ redeems sinners, the pagan holiday was, in essence, "redeemed" by celebrating Christ's birth on that day.

Now, I haven't studied Mithras so I can't respond to the other points as of yet. But that's a pretty glaring error in these alleged similarites.

Well, no, thats not an error on his part, thats an error on the christian churches part, the same christian church who established with the same method of tradition that labels who the authors of the Gospel are.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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4/17/2012 6:58:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It is currently disputed which came first.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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4/17/2012 7:01:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 6:58:08 PM, phantom wrote:
It is currently disputed which came first.

The Fool: Not on any rationaly grounds.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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4/17/2012 7:01:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"it was popular around the that time to create myths to keep a poplulation together."

With that said lets look at all the myths we have today from the "secular" population that are supposed to keep people together.

Global warming
The govt is here to help
We are entitled
We are special in your own way
Coal and crude oil are bad
I could go on and on
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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4/17/2012 7:08:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 6:57:24 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:42:04 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:29:11 PM, seraine wrote:
I think one of the most powerful arguments is not philosphical, but archeological/historical. I'm referring to the cult of Mithras. It shares some very obvious similarities with Christianity, such as

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

Source: http://www.sanfords.net...

The cult of Mithras was one of the most popular pagan religions, and this really shows how much they borrowed to make the transistion to another religion. If they borrowed it, Jesus must not have been divine.

Thoughts?

Not even close.

Jesus was not born on December 25th. He was born sometime during the Summer. December 25th was taken as Christmas because in the same way that Christ redeems sinners, the pagan holiday was, in essence, "redeemed" by celebrating Christ's birth on that day.

Now, I haven't studied Mithras so I can't respond to the other points as of yet. But that's a pretty glaring error in these alleged similarites.

Well, no, thats not an error on his part, thats an error on the christian churches part, the same christian church who established with the same method of tradition that labels who the authors of the Gospel are.

How is that an error on the Christian church's part? We have five independent accounts of Jesus' life and ministry (the four Gospels and Paul's writings), but none of them are specific on the actual day Jesus was born or died. So they chose December 25th to celebrate his birth to coincide with the pagan holiday. This doesn't cast doubt on Jesus' existence. If I found a child alone in the desert and took him home to raise him, not knowing when he was actually born, I could choose any day to celebrate his birthday but he would still exist.
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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4/17/2012 7:20:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 7:08:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:

How is that an error on the Christian church's part? We have five independent accounts of Jesus' life and ministry (the four Gospels and Paul's writings), but none of them are specific on the actual day Jesus was born or died. So they chose December 25th to celebrate his birth to coincide with the pagan holiday. This doesn't cast doubt on Jesus' existence. If I found a child alone in the desert and took him home to raise him, not knowing when he was actually born, I could choose any day to celebrate his birthday but he would still exist.

To be sure there were some commonalities between pagan religions and Christianity, but Christianity was a Jewish religion. Yes it had pagan ideas (and was blasted for that), so I agree with you in general. That said, no way are there five independent accounts - Paul was not an eyewitness and the gospels derive from Mark (who wasn't an eyewitness either).
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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4/17/2012 7:22:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
KeytarHero, get over the date of birth thing. It's not the point.

Look at the Egyptian God Horus (son of Ra, the supreme God), who undoubtedly was written of before Jesus (son of God)...

-Both were born of a virgin (on Dec 25th, herr herr) and visited by 3 Kings.
-Both were baptized by a "Baptist" who was beheaded.
-Both started to preach at the age of 30 and had 12 disciples.
-Both walked on water and performed other miracles.
-Both were crucified, buried and then resurrected.

It's OBVIOUS the Jesus myth is bogus. It just blows my mind that people accept this rubbish as unquestionable fact.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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4/17/2012 7:26:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 7:22:07 PM, tvellalott wrote:
KeytarHero, get over the date of birth thing. It's not the point.

Look at the Egyptian God Horus (son of Ra, the supreme God), who undoubtedly was written of before Jesus (son of God)...

-Both were born of a virgin (on Dec 25th, herr herr) and visited by 3 Kings.
-Both were baptized by a "Baptist" who was beheaded.
-Both started to preach at the age of 30 and had 12 disciples.
-Both walked on water and performed other miracles.
-Both were crucified, buried and then resurrected.

It's OBVIOUS the Jesus myth is bogus. It just blows my mind that people accept this rubbish as unquestionable fact.

The problem you are going to have is finding primary sources prior to Christianity (and possibly after that). The virgin thing, for instance, wasn't a huge deal as far as pagan God's went (in fact it is only relevant because of a strangled mangling of Isaiah 14:7, IIRC). I think Danae would count as a virgin, if memory serves, but most of the stories are gods impregnating mortal women (not necessarily virgins).
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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4/17/2012 7:35:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 7:26:11 PM, Meatros wrote:
At 4/17/2012 7:22:07 PM, tvellalott wrote:
KeytarHero, get over the date of birth thing. It's not the point.

Look at the Egyptian God Horus (son of Ra, the supreme God), who undoubtedly was written of before Jesus (son of God)...

-Both were born of a virgin (on Dec 25th, herr herr) and visited by 3 Kings.
-Both were baptized by a "Baptist" who was beheaded.
-Both started to preach at the age of 30 and had 12 disciples.
-Both walked on water and performed other miracles.
-Both were crucified, buried and then resurrected.

It's OBVIOUS the Jesus myth is bogus. It just blows my mind that people accept this rubbish as unquestionable fact.

The problem you are going to have is finding primary sources prior to Christianity (and possibly after that). The virgin thing, for instance, wasn't a huge deal as far as pagan God's went (in fact it is only relevant because of a strangled mangling of Isaiah 14:7, IIRC). I think Danae would count as a virgin, if memory serves, but most of the stories are gods impregnating mortal women (not necessarily virgins).

I see your point; I'm not saying "This 'ere is irrefutable proof that Christianity is bogus" but it's yet another small piece of evidence in the case.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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4/17/2012 7:48:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 7:35:44 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 4/17/2012 7:26:11 PM, Meatros wrote:

I see your point; I'm not saying "This 'ere is irrefutable proof that Christianity is bogus" but it's yet another small piece of evidence in the case.

I think there is a strong case for pagan influence on pre-existing Jewish Messiah expectations. Some of the links cannot be denied, but there are some authors who are being deceptive or ovr-reaching (zeitgeist, acharya s).
seraine
Posts: 734
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4/17/2012 8:29:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 7:22:07 PM, tvellalott wrote:
KeytarHero, get over the date of birth thing. It's not the point.

Look at the Egyptian God Horus (son of Ra, the supreme God), who undoubtedly was written of before Jesus (son of God)...

-Both were born of a virgin (on Dec 25th, herr herr) and visited by 3 Kings.
-Both were baptized by a "Baptist" who was beheaded.
-Both started to preach at the age of 30 and had 12 disciples.
-Both walked on water and performed other miracles.
-Both were crucified, buried and then resurrected.

It's OBVIOUS the Jesus myth is bogus. It just blows my mind that people accept this rubbish as unquestionable fact.

He raised one man, El-Azar-us, from the dead. Familiar?
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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4/17/2012 10:00:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 9:26:58 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
http://www.beretta-online.com...

Read, plox.

Nice source. Lots to argue about there. I can't be bothered. I'll just stick to jokes, k?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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4/17/2012 10:34:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 7:01:56 PM, sadolite wrote:
"it was popular around the that time to create myths to keep a poplulation together."

With that said lets look at all the myths we have today from the "secular" population that are supposed to keep people together.

Global warming
The govt is here to help
We are entitled
We are special in your own way
Coal and crude oil are bad
I could go on and on

The Fool: I think those are theories based on observation.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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4/17/2012 10:35:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 7:08:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:57:24 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:42:04 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:29:11 PM, seraine wrote:
I think one of the most powerful arguments is not philosphical, but archeological/historical. I'm referring to the cult of Mithras. It shares some very obvious similarities with Christianity, such as

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

Source: http://www.sanfords.net...

The cult of Mithras was one of the most popular pagan religions, and this really shows how much they borrowed to make the transistion to another religion. If they borrowed it, Jesus must not have been divine.

Thoughts?

Not even close.

Jesus was not born on December 25th. He was born sometime during the Summer. December 25th was taken as Christmas because in the same way that Christ redeems sinners, the pagan holiday was, in essence, "redeemed" by celebrating Christ's birth on that day.

Now, I haven't studied Mithras so I can't respond to the other points as of yet. But that's a pretty glaring error in these alleged similarites.

Well, no, thats not an error on his part, thats an error on the christian churches part, the same christian church who established with the same method of tradition that labels who the authors of the Gospel are.

How is that an error on the Christian church's part? We have five independent accounts of Jesus' life and ministry (the four Gospels and Paul's writings), but none of them are specific on the actual day Jesus was born or died. So they chose December 25th to celebrate his birth to coincide with the pagan holiday. This doesn't cast doubt on Jesus' existence. If I found a child alone in the desert and took him home to raise him, not knowing when he was actually born, I could choose any day to celebrate his birthday but he would still exist.

The Fool: There is no CHURCH in the BIBLE. ITS MADE UP>
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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4/17/2012 10:36:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 7:20:40 PM, Meatros wrote:
At 4/17/2012 7:08:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:

How is that an error on the Christian church's part? We have five independent accounts of Jesus' life and ministry (the four Gospels and Paul's writings), but none of them are specific on the actual day Jesus was born or died. So they chose December 25th to celebrate his birth to coincide with the pagan holiday. This doesn't cast doubt on Jesus' existence. If I found a child alone in the desert and took him home to raise him, not knowing when he was actually born, I could choose any day to celebrate his birthday but he would still exist.

To be sure there were some commonalities between pagan religions and Christianity, but Christianity was a Jewish religion. Yes it had pagan ideas (and was blasted for that), so I agree with you in general. That said, no way are there five independent accounts - Paul was not an eyewitness and the gospels derive from Mark (who wasn't an eyewitness either).

The FooL; RIght But if the Jewish religion Which is form when we knew even less about how the works it is even less trust worthy.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Jon1
Posts: 314
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4/18/2012 1:19:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 6:47:12 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:38:52 PM, Contradiction wrote:
You're kidding, right?

How about instead of being annoying, you tell us what part of his argument do you object to?

I don't think that this argument should be taken seriously. It's ridiculously bad.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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4/18/2012 1:39:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/18/2012 1:19:15 AM, Jon1 wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:47:12 PM, tvellalott wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:38:52 PM, Contradiction wrote:
You're kidding, right?

How about instead of being annoying, you tell us what part of his argument do you object to?

I don't think that this argument should be taken seriously. It's ridiculously bad.

The Fool: you got to these kind of refutations. Its called a confound, which mean it blocks the ability to claim that it was not just a part of Ideas from other mythology,(Rationally that is!) All religion is mythology. Nobody who takes Noah's and Adam and Eve to be epistimologically true cant be taken seriously. And should not be for sanity of mankind. It is just the current religions which call the last ones mythology, its the same pattern. Even if you are religious those parts are definelty a part of the Bible that should be taken as an anology from mythology at Best! .
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Tlhedglin
Posts: 119
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4/18/2012 1:49:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 6:29:11 PM, seraine wrote:
I think one of the most powerful arguments is not philosphical, but archeological/historical. I'm referring to the cult of Mithras. It shares some very obvious similarities with Christianity, such as

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

Source: http://www.sanfords.net...

The cult of Mithras was one of the most popular pagan religions, and this really shows how much they borrowed to make the transistion to another religion. If they borrowed it, Jesus must not have been divine.

Thoughts?

While this comparison, and the others in the same vein, are actually good evidence that Christianity DID borrow a lot from preexisting templates; I predict that you will not get far with the argument. The people who already believe have a vested interest in pretending then similarities are coincidental, and that the religion is wholly original. Good luck with it, though.
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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4/18/2012 5:04:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 10:36:26 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 4/17/2012 7:20:40 PM, Meatros wrote:
At 4/17/2012 7:08:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:

How is that an error on the Christian church's part? We have five independent accounts of Jesus' life and ministry (the four Gospels and Paul's writings), but none of them are specific on the actual day Jesus was born or died. So they chose December 25th to celebrate his birth to coincide with the pagan holiday. This doesn't cast doubt on Jesus' existence. If I found a child alone in the desert and took him home to raise him, not knowing when he was actually born, I could choose any day to celebrate his birthday but he would still exist.

To be sure there were some commonalities between pagan religions and Christianity, but Christianity was a Jewish religion. Yes it had pagan ideas (and was blasted for that), so I agree with you in general. That said, no way are there five independent accounts - Paul was not an eyewitness and the gospels derive from Mark (who wasn't an eyewitness either).


The FooL; RIght But if the Jewish religion Which is form when we knew even less about how the works it is even less trust worthy.

I'm not arguing it is trustworthy - just mainly Jewish with some pagan sprinkles.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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4/18/2012 5:17:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 7:08:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:57:24 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:42:04 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 4/17/2012 6:29:11 PM, seraine wrote:
I think one of the most powerful arguments is not philosphical, but archeological/historical. I'm referring to the cult of Mithras. It shares some very obvious similarities with Christianity, such as

Mithra was born of a virgin on December 25th.
He was considered a great traveling teacher and master.
He had 12 companions or disciples.
He performed miracles.
He was buried in a tomb.
After three days he rose again.
His resurrection was celebrated every year.
Mithra was called "the Good Shepherd."
He was considered "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah."
He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb.
His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.
Mithra had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.
His religion had a Eucharist or "Lord's Supper."

Source: http://www.sanfords.net...

The cult of Mithras was one of the most popular pagan religions, and this really shows how much they borrowed to make the transistion to another religion. If they borrowed it, Jesus must not have been divine.

Thoughts?

Not even close.

Jesus was not born on December 25th. He was born sometime during the Summer. December 25th was taken as Christmas because in the same way that Christ redeems sinners, the pagan holiday was, in essence, "redeemed" by celebrating Christ's birth on that day.

Now, I haven't studied Mithras so I can't respond to the other points as of yet. But that's a pretty glaring error in these alleged similarites.

Well, no, thats not an error on his part, thats an error on the christian churches part, the same christian church who established with the same method of tradition that labels who the authors of the Gospel are.

How is that an error on the Christian church's part? We have five independent accounts of Jesus' life and ministry (the four Gospels and Paul's writings), but none of them are specific on the actual day Jesus was born or died. So they chose December 25th to celebrate his birth to coincide with the pagan holiday. This doesn't cast doubt on Jesus' existence. If I found a child alone in the desert and took him home to raise him, not knowing when he was actually born, I could choose any day to celebrate his birthday but he would still exist.

It was the early christian church who chose that day in order to assimilate early pagans into christianity. They chose assimilation instead of slash and burn.

I never said it cast doubt on Jesus' existance, what i said is that this isnt his fault, its the churchs fault for propagating this as tradition, much like they attribute the authors of the gospels with tradition.

But you used this as an argument claiming that this makes the overall argument, weak. And yet, i dont see it that way, because it was the church, not the person making the argument, that made the mistake in the first place and decided to attribute Jesus' birth to december 25th.
cork
Posts: 17
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4/18/2012 7:17:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/17/2012 10:36:26 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 4/17/2012 7:20:40 PM, Meatros wrote:
At 4/17/2012 7:08:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:

How is that an error on the Christian church's part? We have five independent accounts of Jesus' life and ministry (the four Gospels and Paul's writings), but none of them are specific on the actual day Jesus was born or died. So they chose December 25th to celebrate his birth to coincide with the pagan holiday. This doesn't cast doubt on Jesus' existence. If I found a child alone in the desert and took him home to raise him, not knowing when he was actually born, I could choose any day to celebrate his birthday but he would still exist.

To be sure there were some commonalities between pagan religions and Christianity, but Christianity was a Jewish religion. Yes it had pagan ideas (and was blasted for that), so I agree with you in general. That said, no way are there five independent accounts - Paul was not an eyewitness and the gospels derive from Mark (who wasn't an eyewitness either).


The FooL; RIght But if the Jewish religion Which is form when we knew even less about how the works it is even less trust worthy.

What does this mean?