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There are no atheist only Agnostics

IveGotUrOuts
Posts: 13
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4/27/2012 10:03:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
No one is born an atheist they learn NOT to believe just like one learns to believe. People choose to join the religion of Atheism as much as they choose to become Christians. No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a religion. It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist. Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature. Gods creation has replaced the one who made it. They have a quest to be their own God. So we must save the Atheist from their own religion.

http://www.tencommandments.org...
IveGotUrOuts
Posts: 13
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4/27/2012 10:06:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 10:03:49 AM, IveGotUrOuts wrote:
No one is born an atheist they learn NOT to believe just like one learns to believe. People choose to join the religion of Atheism as much as they choose to become Christians. No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a religion. It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist. Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature. Gods creation has replaced the one who made it. They have a quest to be their own God. So we must save the Atheist from their own religion.

http://www.tencommandments.org...
http://www.hallvworthington.com...
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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4/27/2012 10:07:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm curious why religious people feel they can define the beliefs of the non religious. How does that work?

I'm an agnostic atheist (sometimes ignostic, it depends on what we are talking about).

I'm an agnostic, for the most part, because I do not know for certain that God exists or not.

I'm an atheist because I don't believe in any God(s).

Your post/quote is pretty silly, btw.
Nosaj5q
Posts: 175
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4/27/2012 10:09:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I love that you just propel you're nonsensical propaganda you make the atheist like the evil red communists. you have the right to you're opinion, its just dumb.
Slimy yet satisfying"
IveGotUrOuts
Posts: 13
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4/27/2012 10:29:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 10:09:08 AM, Nosaj5q wrote:
I love that you just propel you're nonsensical propaganda you make the atheist like the evil red communists. you have the right to you're opinion, its just dumb.

The truth hurts and your lies will never heal
angrymen
Posts: 27
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4/27/2012 10:40:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
An agnostic is a person who does not know If a god exists. Atheism is the absence of a belief in deities. So there can be atheists.

Why is it important for people of faith to declare everyone else wrong and try to make them believe in there religion?
Nosaj5q
Posts: 175
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4/27/2012 11:00:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Let me make a stab in the dark forgive me if I'm wrong. you have been creationist since childhood, Sunday school that whole deal right? If this is accurate at all than you are a prime example of how gullible children can propagate a religion. Very few people become Christians later in life it all starts with the brainwashed kids that then feel the need to tell everyone else why they are wrong. This is of course assuming your Christian if you are of other monotheistic faith the same more than likely applies. BTW- don't you have an abortion clinic you need to be throwing eggs at?
Slimy yet satisfying"
SeanMichael
Posts: 355
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4/27/2012 11:03:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why is it important for people of faith to declare everyone else wrong and try to make them believe in there religion?

There is things most rational peple know to be true. For instance shooting someone in cold blood for no good reason, most people know is wrong. You want everyone to know this truth otherwise if most people did not know this truth there would be anarchy.
Well people of faith believe rightly or wrongly they hold the truth, they want everyone else to know what they believe to be true. They think this is life changing and saving, and will make the world a better place.
I believe that is why people try to convince others in their faith, I know that is why I do it.
SeanMichael
Posts: 355
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4/27/2012 11:08:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 11:00:09 AM, Nosaj5q wrote:
Let me make a stab in the dark forgive me if I'm wrong. you have been creationist since childhood, Sunday school that whole deal right? If this is accurate at all than you are a prime example of how gullible children can propagate a religion. Very few people become Christians later in life it all starts with the brainwashed kids that then feel the need to tell everyone else why they are wrong. This is of course assuming your Christian if you are of other monotheistic faith the same more than likely applies. BTW- don't you have an abortion clinic you need to be throwing eggs at?

If you look at things like that then everyone is brainwashd. When we are young children we are all influenced by society by parents peers and elders. Not only those of a theist background. I am sure most childrens parents teach them what is right and wrong, to belive this or that, thats just growing up.
Nosaj5q
Posts: 175
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4/27/2012 11:12:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
of course were all brainwashed past experience always influences perception. If a Christian looked at the world or without there religious filter on we could all happily live as atheists it would be Utopian everyone would be so afraid of dying there would be no crime! lol
Slimy yet satisfying"
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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4/27/2012 11:14:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Okay, let's break this down.

No one is born an atheist they learn NOT to believe just like one learns to believe.

There is some psychological evidence that people tend to assume agency over coincidence. This makes evolutionary sense - it is safer to assume that the rustling of leaves is a tiger and run away than to assume that the rustling is the wind. This is far from the patently false claim that people believe in God by default. I personally can attest to the fact that never in my entire life have I positively believed in any god. And I wouldn't believe anything close to Christianity had I never come into contact with it.

People choose to join the religion of Atheism as much as they choose to become Christians.

I find it amusing that some Christians use the label 'religion' as an insult, as though religions are a bad crowd to be associated with. You are a religion. And atheism is as much a religion as "not going skiing" is a hobby.

No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a religion. It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist.

Another example of peeing on your own chips. Faith is a central concept in Christianity, yet you're slagging it off here?

Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature. Gods creation has replaced the one who made it. They have a quest to be their own God. So we must save the Atheist from their own religion.

Atheists come in all shapes and sizes.Their mere rejection of religion doesn't tie them together any more than "not going skiing" ties people together. Atheists can have vastly varied systems of philosophical beliefs (and certainly do), political beliefs and personal characteristics. Atheists can be dissimilar in every respect except that they reject the existence of gods.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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4/27/2012 11:24:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 10:03:49 AM, IveGotUrOuts wrote:
No one is born an atheist they learn NOT to believe just like one learns to believe.

Atheism is just not believing in gods. So we're all born as atheists.

Maybe you mean that we aren't born as strong atheists (those who believe gods don't exist). That's true. We all start out as weak atheists (those who don't believe either way).

People choose to join the religion of Atheism as much as they choose to become Christians.

Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. Theism has many religions (Hindu, Christian, etcetera) but is not itself a religion. Atheism probably has some religions too, but simply not believing in gods is not itself a religion. As you said, we are all born atheists (well, you said, in effect, that we are born without an opinion either way, which is one kind of atheism) but we aren't born religious.

No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a religion.

Nonsense.

It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist.

No, gods are improbable or they wouldn't be called gods. If I claimed to have a friend who could jump over a house, you'd know I was wrong, right? But Christians claim to have a friend who can do anything. He can jump over the moon! He can stop the sun. He's so presumptively unlikely that we're perfectly justified in assuming he doesn't exist.

Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature.

I don't know what you're talking about. I think you're just making it up. Lying, trolling, or just wallowing in reckless disregard for the truth. It's possible that there are a few atheists like that, but I've never met any.

Gods creation has replaced the one who made it. They have a quest to be their own God.

If I said you were a theist because you like to eat babies, that would make as much sense as what you're saying.

So we must save the Atheist from their own religion.

First you'd have to find us one.
SeanMichael
Posts: 355
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4/27/2012 11:47:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 11:12:07 AM, Nosaj5q wrote:
of course were all brainwashed past experience always influences perception. If a Christian looked at the world or without there religious filter on we could all happily live as atheists it would be Utopian everyone would be so afraid of dying there would be no crime! lol

Maybe if everyone looked at the world with a christian point of view. There would be a basis for morality and everyone would realise what is right and wrong and order would be restored and we would all be happier.
seeu46
Posts: 578
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4/27/2012 11:58:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 10:40:02 AM, angrymen wrote:
An agnostic is a person who does not know If a god exists. Atheism is the absence of a belief in deities. So there can be atheists.

Why is it important for people of faith to declare everyone else wrong and try to make them believe in there religion?

An agnostic does not know? So an Atheist knows the answer to the God question?
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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4/27/2012 1:08:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 11:58:04 AM, seeu46 wrote:
An agnostic does not know? So an Atheist knows the answer to the God question?

An atheist does not believe god exists.
An agnostic does not know whether god exists.
seeu46
Posts: 578
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4/27/2012 1:22:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 1:08:23 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 4/27/2012 11:58:04 AM, seeu46 wrote:
An agnostic does not know? So an Atheist knows the answer to the God question?

An atheist does not believe god exists.
An agnostic does not know whether god exists.

At 4/27/2012 1:08:23 PM, wiploc wrote:
At 4/27/2012 11:58:04 AM, seeu46 wrote:
An agnostic does not know? So an Atheist knows the answer to the God question?

An atheist does not believe god exists.
An agnostic does not know whether god exists.

Now that phrase makes more sense to me, instead of saying "lack".

An agnostic does not believe God exists or believes a God exists.

They try to do there best and stay neutral but everyone has a bias.
Theist is yes as Atheist is no.
angrymen
Posts: 27
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4/27/2012 1:24:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 11:47:40 AM, SeanMichael wrote
Maybe if everyone looked at the world with a christian point of view. There would be a basis for morality and everyone would realise what is right and wrong and order would be restored and we would all be happier.

The Christian faith is not a cure all to immoral acts. Christians commit immoral acts all the time.
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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4/27/2012 1:51:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 10:07:44 AM, Meatros wrote:
I'm curious why religious people feel they can define the beliefs of the non religious. How does that work?
Probably the same way that irreligious people feel they can define the beliefs of the religious.

I'm an agnostic atheist (sometimes ignostic, it depends on what we are talking about).

I'm an agnostic, for the most part, because I do not know for certain that God exists or not.
That's fine, but this about BELIEFS and NOT about declarations of knowledge.

I'm an atheist because I don't believe in any God(s).

Your post/quote is pretty silly, btw.
I think that you got offended because you don't like it when people refer to atheism as a religion.

The only thing that I find silly is the title "There are no atheist only Agnostics" but I think maybe he did it to attract an audience as he never really made a case for it in his posts.
*************************************

At 4/27/2012 10:40:02 AM, angrymen wrote:
An agnostic is a person who does not know If a god exists. Atheism is the absence of a belief in deities. So there can be atheists.
Yes, that's why the title is wrong but he never really made that case in his post.

Why is it important for people of faith to declare everyone else wrong and try to make them believe in there religion?
Probably the same reason that ALL people like to relate to people of similar beliefs and convince those of dissimilar beliefs. This isn't something unique to religion but there is an impetus in some religions to proselytize.
***************************

At 4/27/2012 11:24:25 AM, wiploc wrote:
Atheism is just not believing in gods. So we're all born as atheists.
Atheism is the belief that there is no God/gods. We are not born atheists we are born ignorant. A rock has a "lack of belief in God" but a rock is not atheist. Atheism/theism is a declaration of belief NOT a declaration of lack of belief

Maybe you mean that we aren't born as strong atheists (those who believe gods don't exist). That's true. We all start out as weak atheists (those who don't believe either way).
That is an invalid distinction.

Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. Theism has many religions (Hindu, Christian, etcetera) but is not itself a religion. Atheism probably has some religions too, but simply not believing in gods is not itself a religion.
That's semantics: simply replace "religion" with "belief" and the argument still holds.

As you said, we are all born atheists (well, you said, in effect, that we are born without an opinion either way, which is one kind of atheism) but we aren't born religious.
Actually, he said we're all born agnostic. We are born ignorant.

Nonsense.
"No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a belief."
Same difference.

No, gods are improbable or they wouldn't be called gods. If I claimed to have a friend who could jump over a house, you'd know I was wrong, right? But Christians claim to have a friend who can do anything. He can jump over the moon! He can stop the sun. He's so presumptively unlikely that we're perfectly justified in assuming he doesn't exist.
Improbable, yes but not impossible. Unprovable definitely.

If I said you were a theist because you like to eat babies, that would make as much sense as what you're saying.
All he's saying is that atheists believe that man is God. This is old news; I think it was Neitch or Hegel or one of those guys who said it. I dunno.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
SarcasticIndeed
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4/27/2012 3:46:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 10:03:49 AM, IveGotUrOuts wrote:
No one is born an atheist they learn NOT to believe just like one learns to believe. People choose to join the religion of Atheism as much as they choose to become Christians. No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a religion. It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist. Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature. Gods creation has replaced the one who made it. They have a quest to be their own God. So we must save the Atheist from their own religion.

http://www.tencommandments.org...
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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4/27/2012 5:22:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 1:51:11 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 4/27/2012 11:24:25 AM, wiploc wrote:
Atheism is just not believing in gods. So we're all born as atheists.
Atheism is the belief that there is no God/gods. We are not born atheists we are born ignorant.

The OP was trolling, but you presumably aren't. A response that would be appropriate to him might not be to you.

Your usage of the word "atheist" is undeniably correct. A lot of people talk that way, and it is in the dictionaries. But so is mine: undeniably correct because a lot of people talk this way and it is in the dictionaries.

So I'm not going to correct you, but you are wrong to correct me.

The word "atheist" as used, I believe, by most self-identified atheists today, refers to anyone who is not a theist, not just people who believe gods don't exist.

A rock has a "lack of belief in God" but a rock is not atheist. Atheism/theism is a declaration of belief NOT a declaration of lack of belief

Rocks aren't people. Atheists are people who don't believe gods exist.

Maybe you mean that we aren't born as strong atheists (those who believe gods don't exist). That's true. We all start out as weak atheists (those who don't believe either way).
That is an invalid distinction.

There are people who believe gods exist, people who believe gods don't exist, and people who don't believe either way. There is nothing "invalid" about distinguishing between them.

Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. Theism has many religions (Hindu, Christian, etcetera) but is not itself a religion. Atheism probably has some religions too, but simply not believing in gods is not itself a religion.
That's semantics: simply replace "religion" with "belief" and the argument still holds.

Great.
- It is my belief that we're having steak for dinner.
- It is my religion that we're having steak for dinner.
You're right, no difference. [/sarcasm]

No, gods are improbable or they wouldn't be called gods. If I claimed to have a friend who could jump over a house, you'd know I was wrong, right? But Christians claim to have a friend who can do anything. He can jump over the moon! He can stop the sun. He's so presumptively unlikely that we're perfectly justified in assuming he doesn't exist.
Improbable, yes but not impossible. Unprovable definitely.

Presumptively false.

You would reject as false any defense like this, "No, I didn't bring wine into the office. I brought water. Someone must have turned it into wine." Or this, "No I'm not the one who stole that boat. I got to this island by walking on water."

Since the bible is full of claims like that, it is presumptively false.

If I said you were a theist because you like to eat babies, that would make as much sense as what you're saying.
All he's saying is that atheists believe that man is God. This is old news; I think it was Neitch or Hegel or one of those guys who said it. I dunno.

If atheists believed man was god, they wouldn't be atheists, would they? In any case, even if you think that there are some atheists who worship themselves, the OP was making a blanket characterization. An obviously false blanket characterization. He was lying.
Rational_Thinker9119
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4/27/2012 5:49:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 10:03:49 AM, IveGotUrOuts wrote:
No one is born an atheist they learn NOT to believe just like one learns to believe. People choose to join the religion of Atheism as much as they choose to become Christians. No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a religion. It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist. Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature. Gods creation has replaced the one who made it. They have a quest to be their own God. So we must save the Atheist from their own religion.

http://www.tencommandments.org...

"People choose to join the religion of Atheism"

In case you didn't know, Atheists reject religion. Saying that Atheism is a religion, is like saying baldness is a hairstyle, or not collecting stamps is a hobby...

"It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist"

Does it take as much faith to not believe in Big Foot, as it does to believe? Does it take as much faith to not believe in UFO's as it does to believe? Of course not.

Who has more faith, the one who claims his next door neighbor has a time machine that he's let him use, or the one who doesn't believe the claim until shown otherwise?

No, it does not take as much faith not to believe as it does to believe.

"Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature."

Just because Atheists get together and discuss and debate these issues doesn't mean it's a religion. I guess the Chess club is a religion according to you because they have meetings and discuss things.

"Gods creation has replaced the one who made it."

I agree. Hell, we shouldn't even even care about flowers anymore. We all know that when a flower grows it's due to Gamreh the Holy Pedal Master.

"They have a quest to be their own God. So we must save the Atheist from their own religion."

Yes, I'm not a quest, to be my own holy savoir in my Atheist religion....You are just a smart one to figure us out like that aren't you?
Tlhedglin
Posts: 119
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4/27/2012 10:07:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 10:03:49 AM, IveGotUrOuts wrote:
No one is born an atheist they learn NOT to believe just like one learns to believe.

Not exactly. The vast majority of atheists are so because of educating themselves. The vast majority of theists are so because they were spoonfed it their entire life.

People choose to join the religion of Atheism as much as they choose to become Christians.

Actually, most of us suddenly realize that we just don't believe. We can't make ourselves believe something, anymore than you can. I mean, sure, we could probably pretend to believe, but what good would that do?

No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a religion.

Really? What shared BELIEFS do we have?(Remember: A belief, not a lack of belief.)

It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist.

Not so. The absolute lack of all evidence and good reason to believe makes nonbelief one hell of a lot easier to defend, and a hell of a lot easier to believe.

Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature.

Really? When did all atheists become materialists? Oh, right, it must have been after eating all those aborted fetuses...

Most generalizations are false, especially yours.

Gods creation has replaced the one who made it.

Atheists do not worship nature, you seem to have us confused with the Wiccan, you need to do a lot more research.

They have a quest to be their own God.

Nope. I have a quest not to believe things without good reason or evidence. I once knew a family that had a sick child, they had so much faith that they decided to pray instead of depending on man for a cure. What do you think happened?

I wouldn't depend on your god for so much if I were you, because when you get sick, it will be your doctor and not your god that saves you.

So we must save the Atheist from their own religion.

Sure. You can't even save yourself, you have to depend on a bronze-age Palestinian to do it, but you are going to save us?

Dream on.
Illegalcombatant
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4/27/2012 10:15:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 10:03:49 AM, IveGotUrOuts wrote:
No one is born an atheist they learn NOT to believe just like one learns to believe. People choose to join the religion of Atheism as much as they choose to become Christians. No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a religion. It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist. Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature. Gods creation has replaced the one who made it. They have a quest to be their own God. So we must save the Atheist from their own religion.

http://www.tencommandments.org...

Okey atheism is the faith there is no God, if you don't believe in aliens that abduct humans is that a faith too ? If not, then why not ?
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Tlhedglin
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4/27/2012 10:16:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 11:03:35 AM, SeanMichael wrote:
There is things most rational people know to be true.

Indeed, and just a few hundred years ago most rational people thought the Earth was flat.

For instance shooting someone in cold blood for no good reason, most people know is wrong.

Indeed, most of us know that accepting murder would not be a good thing for us or the rest of society, and?

You want everyone to know this truth otherwise if most people did not know this truth there would be anarchy.

Actually, I don't really care whether they know it or not, just so long as they don't do it.

Well people of faith believe rightly or wrongly they hold the truth, they want everyone else to know what they believe to be true.

Indeed.

They think this is life changing and saving, and will make the world a better place.

Indeed.

I believe that is why people try to convince others in their faith, I know that is why I do it.

Which would be fine, the problem lies in the fact that you attack other people(atheists in this case) to do it. You could have easily done it without attacking anyone, yet you chose to anyway. That says far more about you, as a person, than you have said about atheists in this entire thread.

Cheerio.
CrazyPerson
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4/27/2012 11:01:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 11:24:25 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 4/27/2012 10:03:49 AM, IveGotUrOuts wrote:
No one is born an atheist they learn NOT to believe just like one learns to believe.

Atheism is just not believing in gods. So we're all born as atheists.

Maybe you mean that we aren't born as strong atheists (those who believe gods don't exist). That's true. We all start out as weak atheists (those who don't believe either way).

Why would you say that those who don't believe either way are 'weak atheists'? The term for that is 'agnostic'. And why 'strong atheists' for people who believe that gods don't exist? That is 'atheism'. I can't begin to understand the reason for these strange subdivisions, there is no need to do that.


People choose to join the religion of Atheism as much as they choose to become Christians.

Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. Theism has many religions (Hindu, Christian, etcetera) but is not itself a religion. Atheism probably has some religions too, but simply not believing in gods is not itself a religion. As you said, we are all born atheists (well, you said, in effect, that we are born without an opinion either way, which is one kind of atheism) but we aren't born religious.

No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a religion.

Nonsense.

It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist.

No, gods are improbable or they wouldn't be called gods. If I claimed to have a friend who could jump over a house, you'd know I was wrong, right? But Christians claim to have a friend who can do anything. He can jump over the moon! He can stop the sun. He's so presumptively unlikely that we're perfectly justified in assuming he doesn't exist.

Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature.

I don't know what you're talking about. I think you're just making it up. Lying, trolling, or just wallowing in reckless disregard for the truth. It's possible that there are a few atheists like that, but I've never met any.

Gods creation has replaced the one who made it. They have a quest to be their own God.

If I said you were a theist because you like to eat babies, that would make as much sense as what you're saying.

So we must save the Atheist from their own religion.

First you'd have to find us one.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
seeu46
Posts: 578
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4/28/2012 12:45:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 11:01:46 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
At 4/27/2012 11:24:25 AM, wiploc wrote:
At 4/27/2012 10:03:49 AM, IveGotUrOuts wrote:
No one is born an atheist they learn NOT to believe just like one learns to believe.

Atheism is just not believing in gods. So we're all born as atheists.

Maybe you mean that we aren't born as strong atheists (those who believe gods don't exist). That's true. We all start out as weak atheists (those who don't believe either way).

Why would you say that those who don't believe either way are 'weak atheists'? The term for that is 'agnostic'. And why 'strong atheists' for people who believe that gods don't exist? That is 'atheism'. I can't begin to understand the reason for these strange subdivisions, there is no need to do that.


Agreed.


People choose to join the religion of Atheism as much as they choose to become Christians.

Atheism is no more a religion than theism is. Theism has many religions (Hindu, Christian, etcetera) but is not itself a religion. Atheism probably has some religions too, but simply not believing in gods is not itself a religion. As you said, we are all born atheists (well, you said, in effect, that we are born without an opinion either way, which is one kind of atheism) but we aren't born religious.

No matter how much some may try to deny it Atheism is a religion.

Nonsense.

It takes just as much faith believing to embrace that God does not exist even more belief than a Christian would need to believe he does exist.

No, gods are improbable or they wouldn't be called gods. If I claimed to have a friend who could jump over a house, you'd know I was wrong, right? But Christians claim to have a friend who can do anything. He can jump over the moon! He can stop the sun. He's so presumptively unlikely that we're perfectly justified in assuming he doesn't exist.

Atheism has made a secular belief system religion/philosophy of having no God and their focus is usually nature.

I don't know what you're talking about. I think you're just making it up. Lying, trolling, or just wallowing in reckless disregard for the truth. It's possible that there are a few atheists like that, but I've never met any.

Gods creation has replaced the one who made it. They have a quest to be their own God.

If I said you were a theist because you like to eat babies, that would make as much sense as what you're saying.

So we must save the Atheist from their own religion.

First you'd have to find us one.
wiploc
Posts: 1,485
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4/28/2012 1:40:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 11:01:46 PM, CrazyPerson wrote:
Why would you say that those who don't believe either way are 'weak atheists'? The term for that is 'agnostic'. And why 'strong atheists' for people who believe that gods don't exist? That is 'atheism'. I can't begin to understand the reason for these strange subdivisions, there is no need to do that.

That's what the word means.

I'm not saying it's wrong to call them agnostics, because a lot of people talk that way too.

But most atheists these days, or so it seems to me, apply the term "atheist" to everyone who is not a theist. So we need a way to distinguish the atheists who believe there are no gods from those without that belief. We call the first group strong atheists, and the second group weak atheists.

We didn't choose those labels. History chose them for us. But we like them better than the other system, which uses the word "agnostic" as the name both for weak atheists (those who don't believe gods exist, but also don't believe gods don't exist) and also for actual agnostics (those who don't know whether gods exist).
SeanMichael
Posts: 355
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4/29/2012 9:03:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 4/27/2012 1:24:00 PM, angrymen wrote:
At 4/27/2012 11:47:40 AM, SeanMichael wrote
Maybe if everyone looked at the world with a christian point of view. There would be a basis for morality and everyone would realise what is right and wrong and order would be restored and we would all be happier.

The Christian faith is not a cure all to immoral acts. Christians commit immoral acts all the time.

As do atheists.
SeanMichael
Posts: 355
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4/29/2012 9:22:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I personally think atheism requires a lot of belief. I mean most atheists believe life evolved from the inanimate to become living. That the the universe is some cosmic chance. A universe that is able to contain life and intelligent life at that in the space of 13.7 billion years. Atheists used to say in an infinite universe in an infnite time anything is possible. Now most people adhere to the big bang theory it is part of the standard model, so most scientists now are pretty sure the universe had a begining, most also believe time began then also. So if the universe and time had a begining then they are not infinite. Which brings us to other matters as how did life orginate, where did our imagination, creativity, self awareness come from?. To belive that is all chance in my opinion takes a great deal of faith.