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Your God is your ultimate barrier to finding

GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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5/2/2012 6:47:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Your God is your ultimate barrier to finding the Godhead.

The Jews, the true authority and interpreters of Eden, saw mankind's gain of knowledge as an elevation in their struggle to understand God. Israel [as understood by Hebrews, = he strives with God]. Strive can be read as to mean to work either with or against. Jews equated God more with a source of knowledge than a source of command that must be obeyed. This is shown by archetypal Moses ignoring God's law of divorce.

Being a Gnostic Christian, my view goes to following the Jewish view for two basic reasons. They have more authority over the O. T. than Christians and secondly, they give our creation, beginning and God a happy ending for our passage through Eden. True evil had yet to manifest itself to that point in time.

Christians on the other hand, with their view of Eden as man's fall, cannot see a perfect heaven without evil. God fails on this issue and admits it by casting Satan out.

Christians cannot see a perfect Eden on earth without evil. God fails on this issue and admits it by casting Adam and Eve out.

In Noah's day, God repented from his sins. He missed the mark and admits it by destroying most of mankind and animal kind with an immoral genocide. God fails on this issue as well.

Did the Jews win in their striving against God to a point where they could judge him?
I think so thanks to Moses and the divorce laws.

We cannot today know why Christianity reversed some of the Jewish thinking when embracing the O. T. and it's God and going from man's elevation to man's fall.

Should Christians consider following that good Jewish example and do as other cultures have done as shown by Joseph Campbell and seek a messiah the way most Jews do?

If not, then Christians will have to learn to live in a world where their God can be accurately described like this.

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Dawkins and most Jews call the bible fiction. Jews can thus get around this accurate description of God by just admitting the truth. It is all myth and metaphor. Literalist and fundamental Christians cannot and I think that over time this rather ugly God will kill Christianity.

At one time the Christian God of the gaps may have had a role to play for us but man has moved on. Christians should perhaps do the same and seek their true God.

Regards
DL
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/2/2012 7:12:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Your referencing of the old testament assumes that Christians take the old book seriously. The old testament is based on old texts which likely vary in degrees of accuracy. The New Testament is based on what Jesus told us to do, provide testimony. Much of the new testament is based on testimony. The old is not.

I don't argue that it holds some truths, but to say everything about God is vengeful is folish. I believe much of the old testament is based on people who wanted their own land and to go to war, and used God to justify it to a people. I believe that, and it's even admitted in the book of Exodus, that man became corrupt and started making Gods out of things that were not Gods.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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5/3/2012 8:41:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 6:54:27 PM, Thaddeus wrote:
I am Thor. Truly, I see no need for the mortals' God.

What did Thor say after the orgy?

I am tho thor I can hardly pith.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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5/3/2012 8:48:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 7:12:15 PM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
Your referencing of the old testament assumes that Christians take the old book seriously. The old testament is based on old texts which likely vary in degrees of accuracy. The New Testament is based on what Jesus told us to do, provide testimony. Much of the new testament is based on testimony. The old is not.

I don't argue that it holds some truths, but to say everything about God is vengeful is folish. I believe much of the old testament is based on people who wanted their own land and to go to war, and used God to justify it to a people. I believe that, and it's even admitted in the book of Exodus, that man became corrupt and started making Gods out of things that were not Gods.

They sure take the O.T. seriously when it comes to not giving women and Gays full equality for the last 3,000 years.

Do not try to white wash Christian atrocities.
Women are still battling stupid Christian thinking.

Regards
DL
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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5/3/2012 10:45:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/2/2012 7:12:15 PM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
Your referencing of the old testament assumes that Christians take the old book seriously. The old testament is based on old texts which likely vary in degrees of accuracy. The New Testament is based on what Jesus told us to do, provide testimony. Much of the new testament is based on testimony. The old is not.

K.

"Thou Shall Not Ignore the Old Testament!"

New Testament Verses Which Demand Following the Old Testament and Law Contradictions:

I hear so many Christians now a days claim that the Old Testament is defunct for Jesus was the "lamb" to clear away its rules and regulations. This is just another BS scapegoat that Christians use to ignore the atrocities and bizarre laws commanded by their god. Their preachers spoon feed them that the Old Testament is no longer binding so that they can excuse the majority of evil that the bible promotes. I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it! After this section I shall list where the Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.

1) "For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV) Clearly the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself. None other then Jesus said so.

2) All of the vicious Old Testament laws will be binding forever. "It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)

3) Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

3b) "All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16 NAB)

3c) "Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21 NAB)

4) Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children according to Old Testament law. Mark.7:9-13 "Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

5) Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (Matthew 15:4-7)

6) Jesus has a punishment even worse than his father concerning adultery: God said the act of adultery was punishable by death. Jesus says looking with lust is the same thing and you should gouge your eye out, better a part, than the whole. The punishment under Jesus is an eternity in Hell. (Matthew 5:27)

7) Peter says that all slaves should "be subject to [their] masters with all fear," to the bad and cruel as well as the "good and gentle." This is merely an echo of the same slavery commands in the Old Testament. 1 Peter 2:18

8) "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19) and "For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

9) "...the scripture cannot be broken." --Jesus Christ, John 10:35
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GreatestIam
Posts: 1,723
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5/4/2012 6:31:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/3/2012 6:08:51 PM, Meatros wrote:
At 5/3/2012 3:40:00 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 5/3/2012 1:31:48 PM, Meatros wrote:
Do you post on II?

Huh. Meaning?

Regards
DL

FRDB

Thanks. Yes.

Regards
DL