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Kleptin/GodSands debate discussion

Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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7/31/2009 10:12:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
http://www.debate.org...

The debate has ended and is now in the voting phase.

I have started this topic because GodSands and I have many issues left to discuss and doing it over PM is inconvenient because for some reason, my PMs do not format new paragraphs.

In addition, I wanted to open up the discussion and not have too many posts in the comments section of the debate. I want to reserve that space for RFDs.

None of the issues discussed here should have an impact on how voting should take place in the actual debate. I request that everyone be as impersonal as possible, judge the debate according to debate.org's rubric, and please leave RFDs in order to help both me and GodSands improve as debaters.

Thank you.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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7/31/2009 10:31:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 7/31/2009 10:12:22 PM, Kleptin wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

The debate has ended and is now in the voting phase.

I have started this topic because GodSands and I have many issues left to discuss and doing it over PM is inconvenient because for some reason, my PMs do not format new paragraphs.


I honestly can't even decipher what GS is trying to say in his statements, much of it seems to be completely made up and pulled out of a vacuum. There is not a single criterion on the debate in which I could even find close to a tie.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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7/31/2009 10:51:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
To start, your epistemological argument Kleptin was basically what I said to GodSand's in private messaging. The fact that we have technology to prove what we can't sense, and senses that react and were created to react to an environment we don't control, is proof that our senses, when working properly, are telling us what reality is.

The geological argument from GS scared me, and I thank you Kleptin for pointing out what the geologic column shows us - most people don't seem to understand it. In response to GS's first argument about "fossils being on mountains" though, I would have noted plate tectonics, how fossils and ancient seabeds and move around, etc. You may say something similar later in the argument, but I'm writing this as I'm reading the debate, so I don't know!

GS's round two example with the 1940's movie and so on - does that make any sense to anyone? Isn't that an argument about conception, not senses? I don't understand that at all. Then GS goes on about scientists not knowing whether or not a species had offspring, ignoring your answer to that, then something about dinosaur footprints, then fitted in the Big Bang with evolution despite them not being related, then about tidal patterns... I don't know.

The first two rounds of this debate were proof enough that this wasn't going to go anywhere fast. I would comment more but I see no point in it. GodSand's couldn't create much of an argument, just a lot of text. I praise you for having the balls to take this debate Kleptin - I've only read the first two rounds, and I've already given up on it!

Anyways, I'll read the rest and leave an RFD for the debate and look forward to more discussion over this.
Kleptin
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8/1/2009 8:27:13 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
The greater half of the battle in this debate was forcing myself to read and reread GodSands argument until I could decipher it and understand his arguments. That ended up taking up almost as much time typing my argument out. Simply dismissing his arguments as unintelligible would not have been enough for me. I was out for blood in this debate XD I wanted to show that with proper sources, acceptable spelling/grammar, and logical structuring, GodSands arguments would still fail, and I believe I succeeded.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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8/1/2009 2:00:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I'm sorry I can't vote in this debate. I think you did a good job. I sure as heck wouldn't be able to argue against the type of incoherence that GodSands provided. I'm just stumped. :)
So prove me wrong, then.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/4/2009 12:42:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
But WHO would you rather be stuck in a lift with? Godsands! ANY day of the week.. the guys a HOOT! a CARD! DDO would NOT be the same without him..
Keep up the good work Godsands.. we ARE the Salt Of The Earth.
The Cross.. the Cross.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/4/2009 12:43:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/4/2009 12:42:20 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
But WHO would you rather be stuck in a lift with? Godsands! ANY day of the week.. the guys a HOOT! a CARD! DDO would NOT be the same without him..
Keep up the good work Godsands.. we ARE the Salt Of The Earth.

Godsands - 0
Kleptin - 66

Yeah, real hoot.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/4/2009 12:48:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/4/2009 12:43:21 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/4/2009 12:42:20 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
But WHO would you rather be stuck in a lift with? Godsands! ANY day of the week.. the guys a HOOT! a CARD! DDO would NOT be the same without him..
Keep up the good work Godsands.. we ARE the Salt Of The Earth.

Godsands - 0
Kleptin - 66

Yeah, real hoot.

Oh no! statistics! How will we cope?
this is EXACTLY the kind of humourless, colourless 'porridge' I'm referring to..
RELAX! enjoy yourselves.. let's be freinds about it.. we all want the Truth right?
right?
The Cross.. the Cross.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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8/4/2009 6:21:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
"The fact that we have technology to prove what we can't sense..." Arr, are you the equipment or your self, you see through your eyes all the time, you see through your eyes at the technology, this point is weak. Technology means nothing. You are you and no one else, you are not everyone so based on your own self, you may be delusional because YOu believe you are a product of evolution.

Thanks DOTC. Keep up the battle too.
Kleptin
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8/5/2009 6:44:02 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/4/2009 6:21:32 PM, GodSands wrote:
"The fact that we have technology to prove what we can't sense..." Arr, are you the equipment or your self, you see through your eyes all the time, you see through your eyes at the technology, this point is weak. Technology means nothing. You are you and no one else, you are not everyone so based on your own self, you may be delusional because YOu believe you are a product of evolution.

Thanks DOTC. Keep up the battle too.

No, my point is perfect. It's just that your inability to understand logic makes it seem as if though I am the one who is wrong. Your inferiority is clouding your understanding. You have no idea what you are talking about and neither does anyone else who reads the garbage that you type.

Let's have another debate. Not about Evolution, not about 3 points, but a debate just about that 1 point. Your completely illogical "we can't trust senses" point. We can devote an entire debate just to that alone, so I can humiliate you again and show that no matter how you say it, and how many times you say it, you'll still be wrong because it is the conclusion of an inept person making an inept logical argument.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/5/2009 7:00:48 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 6:44:02 AM, Kleptin wrote:
At 8/4/2009 6:21:32 PM, GodSands wrote:
"The fact that we have technology to prove what we can't sense..." Arr, are you the equipment or your self, you see through your eyes all the time, you see through your eyes at the technology, this point is weak. Technology means nothing. You are you and no one else, you are not everyone so based on your own self, you may be delusional because YOu believe you are a product of evolution.

Thanks DOTC. Keep up the battle too.

No, my point is perfect. It's just that your inability to understand logic makes it seem as if though I am the one who is wrong. Your inferiority is clouding your understanding. You have no idea what you are talking about and neither does anyone else who reads the garbage that you type.

Perfect Kleptin? Really!
Inferiority? Garbage? Sounds like GRADE SCHOOL TACTICS to me!
How can you POSSIBLY have the slightest inkling what 'anyone else' thinks about anything?

Let's have another debate. Not about Evolution, not about 3 points, but a debate just about that 1 point. Your completely illogical "we can't trust senses" point. We can devote an entire debate just to that alone, so I can humiliate you again and show that no matter how you say it, and how many times you say it, you'll still be wrong because it is the conclusion of an inept person making an inept logical argument.

Is this why your here, at DDO? to humiliate people?
Have you been humiliated?

YOU are wrong Kleptin ol' son..
Godsands has managed the ONE thing that ACTUALLY matters in this Life:
The KEY to the NEXT: Jesus Christ.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/5/2009 9:54:47 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 7:00:48 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Perfect Kleptin? Really!
Inferiority? Garbage? Sounds like GRADE SCHOOL TACTICS to me!
How can you POSSIBLY have the slightest inkling what 'anyone else' thinks about anything?

How can he? It is called communication. GS communicates his thoughts, so Kleptin and others can disseminate them for what they are; nonsense.

Is this why your here, at DDO? to humiliate people?
Have you been humiliated?

Is this why you're here, at DDO? To be a troll?
Have you been trolled?

YOU are wrong Kleptin ol' son..
Godsands has managed the ONE thing that ACTUALLY matters in this Life:
The KEY to the NEXT: Jesus Christ.

DATCMOTO, if you and GS have already attained the "key to the next" life, why are you still alive?
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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8/5/2009 2:50:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 9:54:47 AM, Volkov wrote:

DATCMOTO, if you and GS have already attained the "key to the next" life, why are you still alive?

Because the afterlife is really great, and the best thing ever, and suicide is a sin so they cant go right now because the Church needs them alive and tithing to fill its pockets.

So basically, institutional greed keeps them alive, just waiting to die.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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8/5/2009 3:30:26 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
: At 8/5/2009 6:44:02 AM, Kleptin wrote:
At 8/4/2009 6:21:32 PM, GodSands wrote:
"The fact that we have technology to prove what we can't sense..." Arr, are you the equipment or your self, you see through your eyes all the time, you see through your eyes at the technology, this point is weak. Technology means nothing. You are you and no one else, you are not everyone so based on your own self, you may be delusional because YOu believe you are a product of evolution.

Thanks DOTC. Keep up the battle too.

No, my point is perfect. It's just that your inability to understand logic makes it seem as if though I am the one who is wrong. Your inferiority is clouding your understanding. You have no idea what you are talking about and neither does anyone else who reads the garbage that you type.

Let's have another debate. Not about Evolution, not about 3 points, but a debate just about that 1 point. Your completely illogical "we can't trust senses" point. We can devote an entire debate just to that alone, so I can humiliate you again and show that no matter how you say it, and how many times you say it, you'll still be wrong because it is the conclusion of an inept person making an inept logical argument.


I would, maybe in seveal months, like in 7 or 8 months time. I will then.
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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8/5/2009 3:33:49 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
: At 8/5/2009 9:54:47 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/5/2009 7:00:48 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
Perfect Kleptin? Really!
Inferiority? Garbage? Sounds like GRADE SCHOOL TACTICS to me!
How can you POSSIBLY have the slightest inkling what 'anyone else' thinks about anything?

How can he? It is called communication. GS communicates his thoughts, so Kleptin and others can disseminate them for what they are; nonsense.

Is this why your here, at DDO? to humiliate people?
Have you been humiliated?

Is this why you're here, at DDO? To be a troll?
Have you been trolled?

YOU are wrong Kleptin ol' son..
Godsands has managed the ONE thing that ACTUALLY matters in this Life:
The KEY to the NEXT: Jesus Christ.

DATCMOTO, if you and GS have already attained the "key to the next" life, why are you still alive?


What, a troll, you cannot be one on this site, aren't you meant to draw people to you to share your veiws? There is no such thing as a troll on this site. The site was made for trolls in your case.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/6/2009 3:47:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 2:50:41 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 8/5/2009 9:54:47 AM, Volkov wrote:

DATCMOTO, if you and GS have already attained the "key to the next" life, why are you still alive?

Because the afterlife is really great, and the best thing ever, and suicide is a sin so they cant go right now because the Church needs them alive and tithing to fill its pockets.

So basically, institutional greed keeps them alive, just waiting to die.

I love THIS life (now I'm born-again) and look forward to the next also..
Oh.. and I also enjoy showing over-educated smart-alecs that they aint HALF as smart as they thought they were..:D
The Cross.. the Cross.
Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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8/31/2009 7:13:22 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
"What, a troll, you cannot be one on this site, aren't you meant to draw people to you to share your veiws? There is no such thing as a troll on this site. The site was made for trolls in your case."

..nooo, we are here to debate. Whether the debate changes anyone's mind on anything is completely irrelevant.

No one objects to sharing views; however, it isn't sharing if the other person doesn't want it! And if your goal is to convince another, perhaps force is not the best way...
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/31/2009 7:42:24 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/31/2009 7:13:22 AM, Chrysippus wrote:
"What, a troll, you cannot be one on this site, aren't you meant to draw people to you to share your veiws? There is no such thing as a troll on this site. The site was made for trolls in your case."

..nooo, we are here to debate. Whether the debate changes anyone's mind on anything is completely irrelevant.

No one objects to sharing views; however, it isn't sharing if the other person doesn't want it! And if your goal is to convince another, perhaps force is not the best way...

Some are here to debate..

Some do not see debate as the end but as the means to the end: TRUTH.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/31/2009 8:43:51 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/5/2009 3:33:49 PM, GodSands wrote:
What, a troll, you cannot be one on this site, aren't you meant to draw people to you to share your veiws? There is no such thing as a troll on this site. The site was made for trolls in your case.

Incorrect. This is a debate site. It is DEBATE.ORG. The fundamental concept of debate is to support your claims, not to spread your ideas. If you don't understand this, get out.

This forum is dedicated to helping people with their debate skills. It is a training ground for debate participation. Here, we practice expressing our views, having them hold up under fire, and honing them for use in debates.

This site is about intellectual exchange, about learning from each other, about LEARNING THAT WE ARE WRONG.

This site is not about heralding that you have THE ONE TRUTH. This site is not about blindly believing in something without any justification, then shoving it down the throats of everyone else. This site is not about pretending that you are on a higher plane of enlightenment and that everything you say is gold. This site is not about acting like holy prophets who have no logical justification for their claims.

This site is not about getting people to listen to you, it is a site where you get over your innate fear of LISTENING TO OTHER PEOPLE.

If you are convinced that your way of thinking is right, and other people are undoubtedly wrong, GET THE HELL OFF OF THIS SITE. You do not belong here. We don't need teachers here. Everyone on this site must be both a teacher and a student. If you don't think you have anything to learn, LEAVE.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/31/2009 8:51:57 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/31/2009 8:43:51 AM, Kleptin wrote:
At 8/5/2009 3:33:49 PM, GodSands wrote:
What, a troll, you cannot be one on this site, aren't you meant to draw people to you to share your veiws? There is no such thing as a troll on this site. The site was made for trolls in your case.

Incorrect. This is a debate site. It is DEBATE.ORG. The fundamental concept of debate is to support your claims, not to spread your ideas. If you don't understand this, get out.

Well, you've tried everything in your (admittedly feeble) arsenal to accomplish this and failed miserably.

This forum is dedicated to helping people with their debate skills. It is a training ground for debate participation. Here, we practice expressing our views, having them hold up under fire, and honing them for use in debates.

This site is about intellectual exchange, about learning from each other, about LEARNING THAT WE ARE WRONG.

This SURELY only applies to those who actually are wrong?

This site is not about heralding that you have THE ONE TRUTH. This site is not about blindly believing in something without any justification, then shoving it down the throats of everyone else. This site is not about pretending that you are on a higher plane of enlightenment and that everything you say is gold. This site is not about acting like holy prophets who have no logical justification for their claims.

This site is not about getting people to listen to you, it is a site where you get over your innate fear of LISTENING TO OTHER PEOPLE.

If you are convinced that your way of thinking is right, and other people are undoubtedly wrong, GET THE HELL OFF OF THIS SITE. You do not belong here. We don't need teachers here. Everyone on this site must be both a teacher and a student. If you don't think you have anything to learn, LEAVE.

NO.
The Cross.. the Cross.