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Why Is The Bible's Setting So Confined/Local?

jat93
Posts: 1,440
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5/6/2012 7:19:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool On The Hill made an interesting point in another thread on this forum (called Isnt this sad for mankind). He says:

"How come its always about Jews. what about the chinese, the japanese and the Indian or mongolian. Why is all God issues always centered only around the middle east. Is God racist?"

I'll follow this up with a quote by Christopher Hitchens. "Moreover, the context is oppressively confined and local. None of these provincials, or their deity, seem to have any idea of the world beyond the desert, the flocks and herds, and the imperatives of nomadic subsistence."

And indeed one must ask the question of exactly why God appeared to primitive peoples in the middle of the desert, thousands of years ago, who owned and beat their slaves and wives, thought every aspect of nature was a crazy miracle, and were mostly illiterate. But an all powerful, all knowing, perfect God apparently thought that these were the people worthy of receiving his similarly perfect word. Why not appear to the Chinese who could at least read and write and have civilization?
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/6/2012 7:38:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I know this is about the bible, but in Islam we know every people were sent a messenger or Prophet. If you analyze the various religions of old polytheists, we see that they had a supreme diety which was one, but then it got corrupted with many lesser gods associated with it.

==Surah An Yunus Chapter 10 Verse 47==
"To every people (was sent) a messenger: when their messenger comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged."

==Surah An Nahl Chapter 16 Verse 36==
"For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth)."
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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5/6/2012 7:42:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/6/2012 7:19:23 PM, jat93 wrote:
The Fool On The Hill made an interesting point in another thread on this forum (called Isnt this sad for mankind). He says:

"How come its always about Jews. what about the chinese, the japanese and the Indian or mongolian. Why is all God issues always centered only around the middle east. Is God racist?"

I'll follow this up with a quote by Christopher Hitchens. "Moreover, the context is oppressively confined and local. None of these provincials, or their deity, seem to have any idea of the world beyond the desert, the flocks and herds, and the imperatives of nomadic subsistence."

And indeed one must ask the question of exactly why God appeared to primitive peoples in the middle of the desert, thousands of years ago, who owned and beat their slaves and wives, thought every aspect of nature was a crazy miracle, and were mostly illiterate. But an all powerful, all knowing, perfect God apparently thought that these were the people worthy of receiving his similarly perfect word. Why not appear to the Chinese who could at least read and write and have civilization?

I do not find this argument valid for several reasons.
1: Jesus came as a humble carpenters son born in a stable. God throughout the Bible claims that the elite are self important and prefers humble peoples.
2: Middle East was the cradle of civilization at the starting accounts of the Bible
3: The location of the Garden of Eden is the middle east.
4: King Melchizadek was the bestower upon Abraham of the priesthood and line of Canaan Kings.
5: The National Jews were chosen to go 'out to the ends of the earth' to teach about God. They failed to do so. Hence Christianity today.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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5/6/2012 7:55:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/6/2012 7:19:23 PM, jat93 wrote:
The Fool On The Hill made an interesting point in another thread on this forum (called Isnt this sad for mankind). He says:

"How come its always about Jews. what about the chinese, the japanese and the Indian or mongolian. Why is all God issues always centered only around the middle east. Is God racist?"

I'll follow this up with a quote by Christopher Hitchens.

Lol, naturally.

"Moreover, the context is oppressively confined and local. None of these provincials, or their deity, seem to have any idea of the world beyond the desert, the flocks and herds, and the imperatives of nomadic subsistence."

And indeed one must ask the question of exactly why God appeared to primitive peoples in the middle of the desert, thousands of years ago, who owned and beat their slaves and wives, thought every aspect of nature was a crazy miracle, and were mostly illiterate.

I think it's long been recognized in most forms of Christianity that God chooses certain "vessels" as a means to bless all nations. [1] It's also been long been recognized in most forms of Christianity that God will choose the "lowly" in order to teach important lessons to the "high". And just because the bible doesn't mention others' stories in detail doesn't mean God isn't concerned with others' stories. [2] The bible is largely about Israel's story.

Your comments also tend to reek of chronological snobbery, btw. [2] Just letting you know.

But an all powerful, all knowing, perfect God apparently thought that these were the people worthy of receiving his similarly perfect word.

Why wouldn't he? And I'm not sure what you mean by "perfect" word...

Why not appear to the Chinese who could at least read and write and have civilization?

What about being able to read and write (or "civilization") merits one more worthy of divine attention than one who can't?

[1] Galatians 3:8: "The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."
[2] Amos 9:7: "Are you not as the sons of Ethiopia to Me, O sons of Israel?" declares the LORD. "Have I not brought up Israel from the land of Egypt, And the Philistines from Caphtor and the Arameans from Kir?"
[3] http://www.davidbergan.com...
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wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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5/6/2012 8:08:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/6/2012 7:38:24 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
I know this is about the bible, but in Islam we know every people were sent a messenger or Prophet. If you analyze the various religions of old polytheists, we see that they had a supreme diety which was one, but then it got corrupted with many lesser gods associated with it.

This and the lack of eternal damnation are two reasons to prefer Islam to Christianity.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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5/6/2012 8:10:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/6/2012 7:55:59 PM, popculturepooka wrote:

Your comments also tend to reek of chronological snobbery, btw. [2] Just letting you know.

My cheeks hurt so bad. I could not stop.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,926
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5/6/2012 8:13:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/6/2012 8:08:34 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/6/2012 7:38:24 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
I know this is about the bible, but in Islam we know every people were sent a messenger or Prophet. If you analyze the various religions of old polytheists, we see that they had a supreme diety which was one, but then it got corrupted with many lesser gods associated with it.

This and the lack of eternal damnation are two reasons to prefer Islam to Christianity.

I thought eternal damnation was the majority position amongst Muslims? Where's Mirza at?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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5/6/2012 8:20:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/6/2012 8:13:16 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/6/2012 8:08:34 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/6/2012 7:38:24 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
I know this is about the bible, but in Islam we know every people were sent a messenger or Prophet. If you analyze the various religions of old polytheists, we see that they had a supreme diety which was one, but then it got corrupted with many lesser gods associated with it.

This and the lack of eternal damnation are two reasons to prefer Islam to Christianity.

I thought eternal damnation was the majority position amongst Muslims? Where's Mirza at?

I'm no expert, but I'm fairly sure they believe in a temporary damnation, something proportional to one's earthly sins.
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/6/2012 8:26:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/6/2012 8:08:34 PM, wjmelements wrote:

This and the lack of eternal damnation are two reasons to prefer Islam to Christianity.

There are many reasons to accept Islam but I must disagree with the reason you gave since it is false. Hell is forever in Islam. There is no room for misinterpretation, the Quran is clear.

==Surah Al Jinn Chapter 72 verse 23==
"Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages: for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger,- for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein for ever."

In Islam whoever dies not believing in Islam will be in hellfire forever....
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/6/2012 8:28:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/6/2012 8:08:34 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 5/6/2012 7:38:24 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
I know this is about the bible, but in Islam we know every people were sent a messenger or Prophet. If you analyze the various religions of old polytheists, we see that they had a supreme diety which was one, but then it got corrupted with many lesser gods associated with it.

This and the lack of eternal damnation are two reasons to prefer Islam to Christianity.

I think you need to check some facts sir.
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The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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5/6/2012 8:36:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/6/2012 7:38:24 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
I know this is about the bible, but in Islam we know every people were sent a messenger or Prophet. If you analyze the various religions of old polytheists, we see that they had a supreme diety which was one, but then it got corrupted with many lesser gods associated with it.

==Surah An Yunus Chapter 10 Verse 47==
"To every people (was sent) a messenger: when their messenger comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged."

==Surah An Nahl Chapter 16 Verse 36==
"For We assuredly sent amongst every People a messenger, (with the Command), "Serve Allah, and eschew Evil": of the People were some whom Allah guided, and some on whom error became inevitably (established). So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied (the Truth)."

The Fool: what about the Americas? Which was unknown at the time?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/7/2012 1:26:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Maybe God appeared to different people in different ways. Maybe he did appear to the Chinese in the same way as the jews, but their writings were lost to history.

Historians aren't always keen to admit that nearly all things written throughout history have been destroyed. They would prefer us to believe that a significant portion of history has been preserved. It hasn't.

Most of what was written in the Bible isn't even written by the people who experienced id events. It is probably written generations later. The preservation of this information depends on the value of preservation to that particular group of people. Jews kept very good records, so much more of their history was preserved.

The Dorians of the greek dark ages are an example of what happens when people don't keep history.

I don't suspect any of these theories for the Chinese, Americans, Europeans, or pacific islanders. The easiest answer is to say that what we know about God pertains to us as individuals, and be open to the fact that God may show himself to different people in different ways, just as is shown in testimony of him today.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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5/7/2012 2:14:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 1:26:33 AM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
Maybe God appeared to different people in different ways. Maybe he did appear to the Chinese in the same way as the jews, but their writings were lost to history.

Historians aren't always keen to admit that nearly all things written throughout history have been destroyed. They would prefer us to believe that a significant portion of history has been preserved. It hasn't.

Most of what was written in the Bible isn't even written by the people who experienced id events. It is probably written generations later. The preservation of this information depends on the value of preservation to that particular group of people. Jews kept very good records, so much more of their history was preserved.

The Dorians of the greek dark ages are an example of what happens when people don't keep history.

I don't suspect any of these theories for the Chinese, Americans, Europeans, or pacific islanders. The easiest answer is to say that what we know about God pertains to us as individuals, and be open to the fact that God may show himself to different people in different ways, just as is shown in testimony of him today.

YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. YOU ARE FULL OF SH!T
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/7/2012 4:14:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
YOU HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. YOU ARE FULL OF SH!T

Well, it's flattering to read you say I do know for certain that God spoke to the Chinese. You're finally seeing things my way, Foolio :).

Naw, just kidding, but keep i mind that my argument is my and everyone else's lack of knowledge so claiming "I don't know what I'm talking about" when I say "I don't know" implies that I do know since it negates my lack of knowledge.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman