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Mediums

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/7/2012 11:16:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For theists: Since you believe in the concept of a soul (and life after death), do you believe in Mediums who claim to be able to communicate with spirits of the deceased? Granted most proclaimed Mediums are lying and in it for the money, but do you believe SOME people have the capacity to interact with the non-living and able to communicate messages from the beyond? Why or why not?
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thett3
Posts: 14,334
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5/7/2012 11:19:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I do not, but not for any particular reason. I guess I just view souls as well and truly departed when they leave this plane, but that's not really a good reason. Interesting question!
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/7/2012 11:25:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:19:35 PM, Koopin wrote:
Meh, I really don't think anyone today can.

Why not? That's really what I'm interested in - the why part of people's answers.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/7/2012 11:28:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:16:37 PM, Danielle wrote:
For theists: Since you believe in the concept of a soul (and life after death), do you believe in Mediums who claim to be able to communicate with spirits of the deceased? Granted most proclaimed Mediums are lying and in it for the money, but do you believe SOME people have the capacity to interact with the non-living and able to communicate messages from the beyond? Why or why not?
You're looking for the answers "Because God said so" and "Because God didn't say so"?
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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5/7/2012 11:30:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:25:16 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/7/2012 11:19:35 PM, Koopin wrote:
Meh, I really don't think anyone today can.

Why not? That's really what I'm interested in - the why part of people's answers.

I'm not 100% on any of this. I've not really studied it so I may be wrong, but I can't think of one reason why God would let someone communicate with the dead at this day and age. Communicating with a passed away soul would mean that the soul would come back to an imperfect world.

Then again, I'm conflicted because of the story of Saul talking with Sam.
kfc
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/7/2012 11:37:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:28:13 PM, Mirza wrote:
You're looking for the answers "Because God said so" and "Because God didn't say so"?

No, not at all. I'm genuinely curious about people's answers.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/7/2012 11:46:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:30:22 PM, Koopin wrote:
I'm not 100% on any of this. I've not really studied it so I may be wrong, but I can't think of one reason why God would let someone communicate with the dead at this day and age. Communicating with a passed away soul would mean that the soul would come back to an imperfect world.

Then again, I'm conflicted because of the story of Saul talking with Sam.

Haha I don't think anyone can be 100% on anything. But you're saying you don't believe it's possible because of conflicts with the Bible? I don't recall if the Bible says anything about Mediums - only false idols and prophets, and to be wary of fortune tellers and stuff (I'm not sure).

Last night I was watching a show about a Christian Medium. She believed that her gift was a gift from God. I was wondering if anyone else believed that God might bestow this gift upon people, and if so, why. It doesn't seem far-fetched to me because the entire religion seems to be premised on communicating with some spirit like entity (God) and the deceased (Jesus).

Catholics believe that Saints were people who had a strong connection/communication with God (kinda sorta similar regarding the validity of the Pope), so it's not entirely out there from a religious standpoint to suggest that certain people are more shall we say "spiritually aware." I'm just curious about people's opinions on the matter. I don't believe in Mediums but then again I don't believe in souls.
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Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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5/7/2012 11:50:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Aha, here it is. God wasn't to keen on the Idea of communicating with the dead.

Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists . . . I will also set My face against that person

Thus you are to be holy to Me, for I the LORD am holy; and I have set you apart from the peoples to be Mine. Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones
kfc
Koopin
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5/7/2012 11:55:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:53:22 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/7/2012 11:50:48 PM, Koopin wrote:
Leviticus.

Oh, my favorite :P

I thought you were an occasional stoner yourself? :D
kfc
tulle
Posts: 4,445
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5/8/2012 12:25:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:55:11 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 5/7/2012 11:53:22 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/7/2012 11:50:48 PM, Koopin wrote:
Leviticus.

Oh, my favorite :P

I thought you were an occasional stoner yourself? :D

LOL

There was a guy on Kourtney and Kim Take New York and he was quite convincing, but then I realized that unless he's been living under a rock for the past decade, it wouldn't be too hard to make some stuff up.
yang.
baggins
Posts: 855
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5/8/2012 3:26:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:16:37 PM, Danielle wrote:
For theists: Since you believe in the concept of a soul (and life after death), do you believe in Mediums who claim to be able to communicate with spirits of the deceased? Granted most proclaimed Mediums are lying and in it for the money, but do you believe SOME people have the capacity to interact with the non-living and able to communicate messages from the beyond? Why or why not?

I don't thing I have a simple yes/no answer. In general, I would be skeptic of such claims. However I do not deny that such a thing MIGHT be possible.

In Sufi narrations, we have some cases of people coming in the dreams of a living person and explaining what happened to them after death. However I don't recall any mention of any person who can communicate with dead people on demand. Also there is a small possibility that these events were just dreams.

Even if mediums exist, I would consider consulting them as undesirable. Death is not the end of life. Living people should go on with life and focus on our faith and deeds. When we die we will be able to meet our loved ones once again, God Willing.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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5/8/2012 3:31:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:16:37 PM, Danielle wrote:
For theists: Since you believe in the concept of a soul (and life after death), do you believe in Mediums who claim to be able to communicate with spirits of the deceased? Granted most proclaimed Mediums are lying and in it for the money, but do you believe SOME people have the capacity to interact with the non-living and able to communicate messages from the beyond? Why or why not?

The Soul was use to be the same word for MIND at the time all the way up unitil 1500 hundreds I think. They just changed it because we started to learn that brain injury effect mind. So there is no more demarcation factor know what the soul pertains to. Its just holo words.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Clash
Posts: 220
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5/8/2012 6:08:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago

Even if mediums exist, I would consider consulting them as undesirable. Death is not the end of life. Living people should go on with life and focus on our faith and deeds. When we die we will be able to meet our loved ones once again, God Willing.

This.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/8/2012 8:12:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 6:08:44 AM, Clash wrote:

Even if mediums exist, I would consider consulting them as undesirable. Death is not the end of life. Living people should go on with life and focus on our faith and deeds. When we die we will be able to meet our loved ones once again, God Willing.

This.

I appreciate the feedback from you both, but neither of you have explained why or why not you think communicating with these spirits is POSSIBLE (not desirable).
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tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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5/8/2012 8:39:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 8:18:38 AM, drafterman wrote:
Did you hear about the midget psychic who escaped from jail? The headline was: "Small Medium at Large"

Brilliant! Was trying to make joke about the title and you beat me to the punch!
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drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/8/2012 8:47:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
On a more relevant note, "Spook," by Mary Roach is a fantastic book delving into claims of communication with the afterlife (among other afterlife issues, such as "weighing" the soul and NDEs)

http://www.amazon.com...
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/8/2012 8:52:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 8:12:27 AM, Danielle wrote:
I appreciate the feedback from you both, but neither of you have explained why or why not you think communicating with these spirits is POSSIBLE (not desirable).

Well, what do you want us to say?

I personally believe that it is possible to be demon-possessed, and since Satan does have power over this world, its possible.
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/8/2012 9:01:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 8:52:58 AM, OberHerr wrote:
Well, what do you want us to say?

I personally believe that it is possible to be demon-possessed, and since Satan does have power over this world, its possible.

So you believe that people can communicate with the dead through the power of Satan. That's what I was looking for: a yes or no, and then a why or how. Thank you for your response.
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Ren
Posts: 7,102
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5/8/2012 9:23:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:16:37 PM, Danielle wrote:
For theists: Since you believe in the concept of a soul (and life after death), do you believe in Mediums who claim to be able to communicate with spirits of the deceased? Granted most proclaimed Mediums are lying and in it for the money, but do you believe SOME people have the capacity to interact with the non-living and able to communicate messages from the beyond? Why or why not?

No.

I'm pretty sure interacting with spirits is an all or nothing sort of thing.

In other words, I don't believe that there's any such talent that enables someone to speak to spirits at will. If you think about it, a person like that should have more access to knowledge than anyone else on earth (aside others like them). They would have access to, for example, real history as opposed to what has been recorded and purported as true.

Therefore, the last thing anyone with such a talent would do is let anyone else in the world know. If he or she were truly interested in capitalizing on such a thing, he or she can use knowledge that no one else can access to his or her benefit for the rest of their life.

So, either everyone can sometimes interact with ghosts, or no one can interact with the dead at all.
Clash
Posts: 220
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5/8/2012 10:55:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 8:12:27 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/8/2012 6:08:44 AM, Clash wrote:

Even if mediums exist, I would consider consulting them as undesirable. Death is not the end of life. Living people should go on with life and focus on our faith and deeds. When we die we will be able to meet our loved ones once again, God Willing.

This.

I appreciate the feedback from you both, but neither of you have explained why or why not you think communicating with these spirits is POSSIBLE (not desirable).

I really do not know if it is possible. However, I see no strong evidences to believe that it is possible. In my opinion, all this medium thing is just superstition and only meant to make some money by tricking some people to believe that they are talking to their love ones or something. Although we Muslims believe in an afterlife, that doesn't mean that we in this life can talk to those in the afterlife. If we can...well, then we can. But again, in my opinion, I see no strong evidences to believe that some people can talk to the death. Mediums clearly only wants to make some money from some depressed people who so badly wants to talk to their love ones again.
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/8/2012 3:51:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 10:55:33 AM, Clash wrote:
At 5/8/2012 8:12:27 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/8/2012 6:08:44 AM, Clash wrote:

Even if mediums exist, I would consider consulting them as undesirable. Death is not the end of life. Living people should go on with life and focus on our faith and deeds. When we die we will be able to meet our loved ones once again, God Willing.

This.

I appreciate the feedback from you both, but neither of you have explained why or why not you think communicating with these spirits is POSSIBLE (not desirable).

I really do not know if it is possible. However, I see no strong evidences to believe that it is possible. In my opinion, all this medium thing is just superstition and only meant to make some money by tricking some people to believe that they are talking to their love ones or something. Although we Muslims believe in an afterlife, that doesn't mean that we in this life can talk to those in the afterlife. If we can...well, then we can. But again, in my opinion, I see no strong evidences to believe that some people can talk to the death. Mediums clearly only wants to make some money from some depressed people who so badly wants to talk to their love ones again.

Only Prophets, if Allah allows them (peace be upon them) can do these types of huge supernatural things. The only other thing in Islam (I think) which is not even supernatural is soothsaying but that is mixed with a hundred lies.

No muslim who isn't a prophet can ever communicate with people in the afterlife in full consciousness, that's just no because it is a complete innovation in the religion.
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/8/2012 7:32:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/7/2012 11:16:37 PM, Danielle wrote:
For theists: Since you believe in the concept of a soul (and life after death), do you believe in Mediums who claim to be able to communicate with spirits of the deceased? Granted most proclaimed Mediums are lying and in it for the money, but do you believe SOME people have the capacity to interact with the non-living and able to communicate messages from the beyond? Why or why not?

I believe in the difference between spirit and soul. The spirit lives inside of the body, but has no effect on it. Wheher the spirit and the Holy Spirit are the same, I don't know, and can't really speak for personally.

The soul is where we have consciousness. Because science can tell us absolutely nothing about what consciousness is, I believe it's possible to measure a living essence of someone or something that lived in the past. I believe there's some truth to the ghost stories and such, but I don't believe you can ever communicate with it since any consciousness left behind and outside of the body would be brainless.

The most we could hope for is to, perhaps deciphor someone's dying moments, an essence of which may be left behind.

It's all speculative, though. I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things, but it would be nice to know if there is something of substance to ghostly encounters.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
baggins
Posts: 855
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5/9/2012 1:21:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 8:12:27 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/8/2012 6:08:44 AM, Clash wrote:

Even if mediums exist, I would consider consulting them as undesirable. Death is not the end of life. Living people should go on with life and focus on our faith and deeds. When we die we will be able to meet our loved ones once again, God Willing.

This.

I appreciate the feedback from you both, but neither of you have explained why or why not you think communicating with these spirits is POSSIBLE (not desirable).

I do not have any reason to believe it is possible. I have several reasons to think it is unlikely. The first reason is, it is commonly used to defraud people. The other reason is, most of the people claiming such power do not lead a virtuous life. I have no reason to believe that they are speaking truth.

However, I cannot say it is impossible. Primarily because I cannot prove from scriptures it is impossible. I have to admit a possibility that it might be possible.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
baggins
Posts: 855
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5/9/2012 1:26:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/8/2012 3:51:50 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
At 5/8/2012 10:55:33 AM, Clash wrote:
At 5/8/2012 8:12:27 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/8/2012 6:08:44 AM, Clash wrote:

Even if mediums exist, I would consider consulting them as undesirable. Death is not the end of life. Living people should go on with life and focus on our faith and deeds. When we die we will be able to meet our loved ones once again, God Willing.

This.

I appreciate the feedback from you both, but neither of you have explained why or why not you think communicating with these spirits is POSSIBLE (not desirable).

I really do not know if it is possible. However, I see no strong evidences to believe that it is possible. In my opinion, all this medium thing is just superstition and only meant to make some money by tricking some people to believe that they are talking to their love ones or something. Although we Muslims believe in an afterlife, that doesn't mean that we in this life can talk to those in the afterlife. If we can...well, then we can. But again, in my opinion, I see no strong evidences to believe that some people can talk to the death. Mediums clearly only wants to make some money from some depressed people who so badly wants to talk to their love ones again.

Only Prophets, if Allah allows them (peace be upon them) can do these types of huge supernatural things. The only other thing in Islam (I think) which is not even supernatural is soothsaying but that is mixed with a hundred lies.

No muslim who isn't a prophet can ever communicate with people in the afterlife in full consciousness, that's just no because it is a complete innovation in the religion.

Are you saying that Allah does not grant a miracle to anyone other that prophets? If this is what you are saying, can you back it up.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.