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An argument against the god of the Bible

Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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5/12/2012 7:35:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. The God of the Bible is God.
2. The God of the Bible, therefore, the Greatest Conceivable Being.
3. If it could be shown that the God of the Bible is not the Greatest Conceivable Being, then, the God of the Bible would not be Greatest Conceivable Being and, therefore, God.
4. The God of the Bible is not morally perfect as He does not love the evil-doers. (logical contradiction)
5. Therefore, the God of the Bible isn't the Greatest Conceivable Being.
6. Therefore, the God of the Bible is not God.
7. Therefore, the God of the Bible does not exist.

--------

Deut 7:10

And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.

John 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"

Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

Inspired by http://www.debate.org...
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Illegalcombatant
Posts: 4,008
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5/12/2012 11:47:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/12/2012 7:35:36 PM, Microsuck wrote:
1. The God of the Bible is God.
2. The God of the Bible, therefore, the Greatest Conceivable Being.
3. If it could be shown that the God of the Bible is not the Greatest Conceivable Being, then, the God of the Bible would not be Greatest Conceivable Being and, therefore, God.
4. The God of the Bible is not morally perfect as He does not love the evil-doers. (logical contradiction)
5. Therefore, the God of the Bible isn't the Greatest Conceivable Being.
6. Therefore, the God of the Bible is not God.
7. Therefore, the God of the Bible does not exist.

--------


I'll give it a go.

1) God = the greatest conceivable being
2) The greatest conceivable being can't lack (y)
3) (x) lacks (y)
4) Therefore (x) is not the greatest conceivable being
5) Therefore (x) is not God
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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5/13/2012 1:30:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The motives of God is beyond comprehension, therefore you argument is invalid.
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KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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5/13/2012 2:03:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/12/2012 7:35:36 PM, Microsuck wrote:
1. The God of the Bible is God.
2. The God of the Bible, therefore, the Greatest Conceivable Being.
3. If it could be shown that the God of the Bible is not the Greatest Conceivable Being, then, the God of the Bible would not be Greatest Conceivable Being and, therefore, God.
4. The God of the Bible is not morally perfect as He does not love the evil-doers. (logical contradiction)
5. Therefore, the God of the Bible isn't the Greatest Conceivable Being.
6. Therefore, the God of the Bible is not God.
7. Therefore, the God of the Bible does not exist.

--------

Deut 7:10

And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.

John 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"

Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."


Inspired by http://www.debate.org...

I would take issue with premise four. Do you honestly think a perfectly moral being would love evildoers and do nothing about their evil?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/13/2012 2:11:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/13/2012 2:03:39 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
I would take issue with premise four. Do you honestly think a perfectly moral being would love evildoers and do nothing about their evil?
Perhaps you have a different view on the matter, but Christan apologetics sort of agree that God loves everyone, even sinners.
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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5/13/2012 2:22:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/13/2012 2:11:08 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/13/2012 2:03:39 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
I would take issue with premise four. Do you honestly think a perfectly moral being would love evildoers and do nothing about their evil?
Perhaps you have a different view on the matter, but Christan apologetics sort of agree that God loves everyone, even sinners.

It depends on who you ask. Universalists believe that God loves everyone and will save everyone. This is not Biblical, as Hell is a real place as revealed through Scripture and not everyone will be saved.

However, there are verses that speak to God's anger toward sinners. God loves everyone, in that He recognizes that we're all sinners, died for our salvation, and offers that salvation to everyone. So while God loves everyone enough to offer salvation to them, God is angry toward sinners who remain in their sinful state and will judge them once their life is over.
Tnkissfan
Posts: 199
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5/13/2012 2:58:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/13/2012 2:11:08 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/13/2012 2:03:39 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
I would take issue with premise four. Do you honestly think a perfectly moral being would love evildoers and do nothing about their evil?
Perhaps you have a different view on the matter, but Christan apologetics sort of agree that God loves everyone, even sinners.
We're all sinners but God still loves us. God may hate the act but he loves the person commiting the act.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/13/2012 9:06:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/13/2012 1:30:33 AM, tvellalott wrote:
The motives of God is beyond comprehension, therefore you argument is invalid.

Either God's motives are not beyond comprehension, and therefore this argument remains valid (as you've implied), or God's motives are beyond comprehension, and then he either exists or does not exist and it is unprovable. On balance, through a possibility table / tree diagram, it is more probable that God does not exist than does (75% to 25%).

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Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/13/2012 9:31:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/13/2012 1:30:33 AM, tvellalott wrote:
The motives of God is beyond comprehension, therefore you argument is invalid.

"The motives of God is beyond comprehension"

Then the conversation is done. You can't say God wanted to create the universe, because that would be you attempting to comprehend God's motives. You can't claim God did anything for any reason, because that would be you attempting to understands Gods motives. We can't even have a discussion about God unless, we have some educated guess's on what his motives are.

In a religious debate, a Theist can't accuse your opponent of trying to understand the mind of God right after they claim God was motivated to create the universe, to create humans through evolution, to love us and have a relationship with us, to punish sinners ect...

Talk about hypocrisy.

Right when you pull the "you can't attempt to understand the mind of God" card, it's a conversation stopper, and intellectual laziness.
baggins
Posts: 855
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5/13/2012 10:08:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/13/2012 2:03:39 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 5/12/2012 7:35:36 PM, Microsuck wrote:
1. The God of the Bible is God.
2. The God of the Bible, therefore, the Greatest Conceivable Being.
3. If it could be shown that the God of the Bible is not the Greatest Conceivable Being, then, the God of the Bible would not be Greatest Conceivable Being and, therefore, God.
4. The God of the Bible is not morally perfect as He does not love the evil-doers. (logical contradiction)
5. Therefore, the God of the Bible isn't the Greatest Conceivable Being.
6. Therefore, the God of the Bible is not God.
7. Therefore, the God of the Bible does not exist.

--------

Deut 7:10

And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.

John 3:18

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"

Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."


Inspired by http://www.debate.org...

I would take issue with premise four. Do you honestly think a perfectly moral being would love evildoers and do nothing about their evil?

Valid challenge. Loving evildoers would be unjust. An unjust God would not greatest conceivable being.

God is always ready to forgive and overlook sins and turn towards the person as soon as an evildoer sincerely repents.
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popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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5/13/2012 10:49:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/13/2012 2:11:08 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/13/2012 2:03:39 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
I would take issue with premise four. Do you honestly think a perfectly moral being would love evildoers and do nothing about their evil?
Perhaps you have a different view on the matter, but Christan apologetics sort of agree that God loves everyone, even sinners.

It depends on which branch. Generally speaking, Calvinists don't believe that God loves everyone - or at least that God doesn't love humans all to the same degree (he has a "special love" for the elect). The rest of Christians (Arminians, universalists) do.
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Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/13/2012 11:23:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think the most correct view is that God loves everyone, but has a special love (as someone else mentioned) for the people who do good. This is obvious. Islam shares this view too.
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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5/13/2012 4:14:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/13/2012 11:23:18 AM, Mirza wrote:
I think the most correct view is that God loves everyone, but has a special love (as someone else mentioned) for the people who do good. This is obvious. Islam shares this view too.

In Islam, what's the difference between the two degrees of love?