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Reincarntion

Jon1
Posts: 314
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5/14/2012 2:44:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What's your view on reincarnation? Do you think the self exists, or do you take the Buddhist view of it not existing? If you do, can you explain this concept to me because I still can't get my head around it, please :)
Jon1
Posts: 314
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5/14/2012 2:46:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 2:44:57 PM, Jon1 wrote:
What's your view on reincarnation? Do you think the self exists, or do you take the Buddhist view of it not existing? If you do, can you explain this concept to me because I still can't get my head around it, please :)

What I'm trying to say is, I don't get Buddhism.
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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5/14/2012 2:47:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 2:44:57 PM, Jon1 wrote:
What's your view on reincarnation? Do you think the self exists, or do you take the Buddhist view of it not existing? If you do, can you explain this concept to me because I still can't get my head around it, please :)

Reincarnation is too exotic for me
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Jon1
Posts: 314
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5/14/2012 2:56:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 2:44:57 PM, Jon1 wrote:
What's your view on reincarnation? Do you think the self exists, or do you take the Buddhist view of it not existing? If you do, can you explain this concept to me because I still can't get my head around it, please :)

Like, if I don't exist then what reincarnates?
Clash
Posts: 220
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5/14/2012 3:02:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In my opinion, reincarnation is just a irrational, superstitious belief without any evidence whatsoever. Its clearly only a faith based and man-made doctrine. However, even due I disagree with it, I respect those who believe in it.
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/14/2012 3:15:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
ludicrous, zero chance. if you want to be technical, there is like a ten to the power almost negative infinity chance though if the universe is eternal and will continue to be eternal for etermity.
Clash
Posts: 220
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5/14/2012 3:22:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:15:10 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
ludicrous, zero chance. if you want to be technical, there is like a ten to the power almost negative infinity chance though if the universe is eternal and will continue to be eternal for etermity.

True. The idea of a eternal universe is both absurd and scientific wrong.
CosmicAlfonzo
Posts: 5,955
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5/14/2012 3:28:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Think of reincarnation as something that happens within your own lifetime. Think of reincarnation as being the ideas that survive you. Think of reincarnation as being the matter in your body recycling to be used in new forms.

There is an eternal soul, but it isn't unique to you, it is the movement of the universe, and individuals are really just a part of that. Everything is connected.

Reincarnation is a meaningless belief that doesn't change or effect the way things are. To escape reincarnation is to disgard it as a fetter and not waste thoughts on it. There is no such thing as reincarnation.
Official "High Priest of Secular Affairs and Transient Distributor of Sonic Apple Seeds relating to the Reptilian Division of Paperwork Immoliation" of The FREEDO Bureaucracy, a DDO branch of the Erisian Front, a subdivision of the Discordian Back, a Limb of the Illuminatian Cosmic Utensil Corp
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/14/2012 3:28:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"What's your view on reincarnation?"

Hooey (like any idea of an afterlife). In my opinion, these are just concepts believed by people who would be terrified of death and have anxiety thinking about it unless they believed in some form of the afterlife.

I see absolutely 0 reason why anyone would believe it otherwise..
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/14/2012 3:30:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Buddhism does not teach reincarnation.

Sati: "Yes, venerable sir, as I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences."

The Buddha replies: "Foolish man, to whom do you know me having preached this Teaching. Haven't I told, in various ways that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet, you foolish man, because of your wrong grasp, blame me, destroy yourself, and accumulate much demerit."

Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/14/2012 3:32:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:30:50 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Buddhism does not teach reincarnation.


Sati: "Yes, venerable sir, as I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences."

The Buddha replies: "Foolish man, to whom do you know me having preached this Teaching. Haven't I told, in various ways that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet, you foolish man, because of your wrong grasp, blame me, destroy yourself, and accumulate much demerit."

Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta

I'm curious, what language were the buddhist scriptures written in?
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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5/14/2012 3:35:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:28:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"What's your view on reincarnation?"

Hooey (like any idea of an afterlife). In my opinion, these are just concepts believed by people who would be terrified of death and have anxiety thinking about it unless they believed in some form of the afterlife.

I see absolutely 0 reason why anyone would believe it otherwise..

In Classical Hinduism, reincarnation was more of a punishment than a reward. The goal was to escape reincarnation and achieve moksha.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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5/14/2012 3:37:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:32:58 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:30:50 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Buddhism does not teach reincarnation.


Sati: "Yes, venerable sir, as I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences."

The Buddha replies: "Foolish man, to whom do you know me having preached this Teaching. Haven't I told, in various ways that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet, you foolish man, because of your wrong grasp, blame me, destroy yourself, and accumulate much demerit."

Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta

I'm curious, what language were the buddhist scriptures written in?

I believe Sanskrit, though I could be wrong.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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5/14/2012 3:38:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:32:58 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:30:50 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
Buddhism does not teach reincarnation.


Sati: "Yes, venerable sir, as I know the Teaching of the Blessed One, this consciousness transmigrates through existences."

The Buddha replies: "Foolish man, to whom do you know me having preached this Teaching. Haven't I told, in various ways that consciousness is dependently arisen. Without a cause, there is no arising of consciousness. Yet, you foolish man, because of your wrong grasp, blame me, destroy yourself, and accumulate much demerit."

Mahatanhasankhaya Sutta

I'm curious, what language were the buddhist scriptures written in?

Nevermind, the language is called Pali.

From Wikipedia: " It is best known as the language of many of the earliest extant Buddhist scriptures" http://en.wikipedia.org...
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/14/2012 3:40:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:35:44 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:28:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"What's your view on reincarnation?"

Hooey (like any idea of an afterlife). In my opinion, these are just concepts believed by people who would be terrified of death and have anxiety thinking about it unless they believed in some form of the afterlife.

I see absolutely 0 reason why anyone would believe it otherwise..

In Classical Hinduism, reincarnation was more of a punishment than a reward. The goal was to escape reincarnation and achieve moksha.

Fair enough, I still think it's all hooey though. There are going to be "bad" versions of the afterlife to inflict fear for control, but the idea of an afterlife in general in my opinion, is due to being terrified of death without it.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/14/2012 3:43:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Rebirth in Buddhism: the doctrine that the evolving consciousness or stream of consciousness upon death (or "the dissolution of the aggregates"), becomes one of the contributing causes for the arising of a new aggregation."
-- Wikipedia

Is that so unreasonable?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/14/2012 3:45:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:40:04 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Fair enough, I still think it's all hooey though. There are going to be "bad" versions of the afterlife to inflict fear for control, but the idea of an afterlife in general in my opinion, is due to being terrified of death without it.

I can assure you that neither the Buddha nor Jesus was afraid of death. Quite the contrary actually.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/14/2012 3:52:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The self is absolutely real but only because it is completely imaginary. Just as every other concept is completely imaginary, especially those that try to make sense of the world and especially-especially those that are completely contradictory.
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GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Clash
Posts: 220
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5/14/2012 3:54:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:40:04 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:35:44 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:28:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"What's your view on reincarnation?"

Hooey (like any idea of an afterlife). In my opinion, these are just concepts believed by people who would be terrified of death and have anxiety thinking about it unless they believed in some form of the afterlife.

Your view of the after life is merely based on blind faith. In fact, I can use this logic against Atheism as well: Atheism was invented because of the fear of going to hell forever. By saying that God doesn't exist, there would be no afterlife and no hell.
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/14/2012 3:55:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
An afterlife actually makes one less afraid of death since they know that this is not the only life. One who believes this is the only life is more afraid of death since they wouldn't want to risk their only chance to live.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/14/2012 4:06:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:55:17 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
An afterlife actually makes one less afraid of death since they know that this is not the only life. One who believes this is the only life is more afraid of death since they wouldn't want to risk their only chance to live.

The fact that people ARE afraid of death shows they never really did believe in an afterlife. All beliefs we create, as opposed to those arising out of perception, are simply metaphor for our psychological needs. For instance, you may be over looking that someone who is not afraid of death does not believe in an after-life because they don't feel a need to believe in it. A reversed causality.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/14/2012 4:17:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 4:06:06 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The fact that people ARE afraid of death shows they never really did believe in an afterlife.

If everyone had zero fear of death. then many would become suicidal which isn't good. What I mean is that people who strongly believe in an afterlife and strive to do righteous deeds, pray, fast etc don't value this life as much as those who believe this is their only life.

All beliefs we create, as opposed to those arising out of perception, are simply metaphor for our psychological needs. For instance, you may be over looking that someone who is not afraid of death does not believe in an after-life because they don't feel a need to believe in it. A reversed causality.

People don't believe in an afterlife because it is a need , but they believe it is a reality. My point is that if one does not believe in an afterlife, this life becomes much more important and precious whereas one who doesn't doesn't value it as much.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/14/2012 4:26:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 4:17:46 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
At 5/14/2012 4:06:06 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The fact that people ARE afraid of death shows they never really did believe in an afterlife.

If everyone had zero fear of death. then many would become suicidal which isn't good.
Good by who's standard? And that's also non-sequitur. They may have a positive feelings for living but no feelings towards death.

What I mean is that people who strongly believe in an afterlife and strive to do righteous deeds, pray, fast etc don't value this life as much as those who believe this is their only life.

Wouldn't having only one of something make you value it more? What do we care if we have it forever? Why should we cherish every moment?

All beliefs we create, as opposed to those arising out of perception, are simply metaphor for our psychological needs. For instance, you may be over looking that someone who is not afraid of death does not believe in an after-life because they don't feel a need to believe in it. A reversed causality.

People don't believe in an afterlife because it is a need , but they believe it is a reality.

I don't see any explanation for why I am wrong. You simply stated it.

My point is that if one does not believe in an afterlife, this life becomes much more important and precious whereas one who doesn't doesn't value it as much.

What?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/14/2012 4:36:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:54:11 PM, Clash wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:40:04 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:35:44 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:28:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"What's your view on reincarnation?"

Hooey (like any idea of an afterlife). In my opinion, these are just concepts believed by people who would be terrified of death and have anxiety thinking about it unless they believed in some form of the afterlife.

Your view of the after life is merely based on blind faith. In fact, I can use this logic against Atheism as well: Atheism was invented because of the fear of going to hell forever. By saying that God doesn't exist, there would be no afterlife and no hell.

That makes no sense though, because if I actually had a fear of going to hell, I'd be a christian.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/14/2012 4:36:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:45:22 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:40:04 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Fair enough, I still think it's all hooey though. There are going to be "bad" versions of the afterlife to inflict fear for control, but the idea of an afterlife in general in my opinion, is due to being terrified of death without it.

I can assure you that neither the Buddha nor Jesus was afraid of death. Quite the contrary actually.

I bet they didn't, because they believed in an afterlife lol
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/14/2012 4:53:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 4:26:17 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 5/14/2012 4:17:46 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
At 5/14/2012 4:06:06 PM, FREEDO wrote:
The fact that people ARE afraid of death shows they never really did believe in an afterlife.

If everyone had zero fear of death. then many would become suicidal which isn't good.
Good by who's standard? And that's also non-sequitur. They may have a positive feelings for living but no feelings towards death.

Generally speaking, mostly everyone. Suicide is not good, that isn't an outrageous idea. My statement wasn't a non-sequitur, if you take two people and one has no negative feelings towards death and the other has negative feelings towards it the one who has no feelings towards it is more likely to do it.

What I mean is that people who strongly believe in an afterlife and strive to do righteous deeds, pray, fast etc don't value this life as much as those who believe this is their only life.

Wouldn't having only one of something make you value it more? What do we care if we have it forever? Why should we cherish every moment?

I don't understand the first two questions but for the last one, I never said one cherishes life every moment but the one who believes this is their only one is more likely to value it much more.

It's like the example where people say party, drink, have fun "you are only young once" or "life fast die young". People say to enjoy yourself as much as you can because they think this is their only life so they might as well enjoy it as much as possible before they die.


All beliefs we create, as opposed to those arising out of perception, are simply metaphor for our psychological needs. For instance, you may be over looking that someone who is not afraid of death does not believe in an after-life because they don't feel a need to believe in it. A reversed causality.

People don't believe in an afterlife because it is a need , but they believe it is a reality.

I don't see any explanation for why I am wrong. You simply stated it.

I did, you said that people believe in an afterlife for some sort of psychological need. I said no they would believe it regardless of whether it was a psychological need or not. They know it to be a reality.

My point is that if one does not believe in an afterlife, this life becomes much more important and precious whereas one who doesn't doesn't value it as much.

What?

My statement was straightforward, I don't see what is so confusing or nonsensical about it.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/14/2012 5:10:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 4:36:49 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:45:22 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
I can assure you that neither the Buddha nor Jesus was afraid of death. Quite the contrary actually.

I bet they didn't, because they believed in an afterlife lol

False. This is what the Buddha said about what will happen to him when he dies:

"The extinction of the Blessed One will be by that passing away in which nothing remains that could tend to the formation of another self. Nor will it be possible to point out the Blessed One as being here or there. But it will be like a flame in a great body of blazing fire. That flame has ceased; it has vanished and it cannot be said that it is here or there. In the body of the Dhanna, however, the Blessed One can be pointed out; for the Dharma has been preached by the Blessed One."
-- The Buddha

He also said: "Gripped by fear people go to sacred mountains, sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines."

So I can tell you for a fact that no doctrine of the Buddha came from fear. We can debate it or you can retract that statement.

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"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Clash
Posts: 220
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5/15/2012 5:53:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 4:36:21 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:54:11 PM, Clash wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:40:04 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:35:44 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:28:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"What's your view on reincarnation?"

Hooey (like any idea of an afterlife). In my opinion, these are just concepts believed by people who would be terrified of death and have anxiety thinking about it unless they believed in some form of the afterlife.

Your view of the after life is merely based on blind faith. In fact, I can use this logic against Atheism as well: Atheism was invented because of the fear of going to hell forever. By saying that God doesn't exist, there would be no afterlife and no hell.

That makes no sense though, because if I actually had a fear of going to hell, I'd be a christian.

But how do you know that you would go to heaven if you became a Christian? There are a thousands of other religions out there. If you become a Atheist, you know (or at least think so) that all religions are false, God doesn't exist, and that there are no hell.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/15/2012 9:18:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 3:54:11 PM, Clash wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:40:04 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:35:44 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:28:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"What's your view on reincarnation?"

Hooey (like any idea of an afterlife). In my opinion, these are just concepts believed by people who would be terrified of death and have anxiety thinking about it unless they believed in some form of the afterlife.

Your view of the after life is merely based on blind faith. In fact, I can use this logic against Atheism as well: Atheism was invented because of the fear of going to hell forever. By saying that God doesn't exist, there would be no afterlife and no hell.

Atheism is actually the natural state of mankind. It was invented long before conceptions of an afterlife existed.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/15/2012 9:19:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 9:18:05 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:54:11 PM, Clash wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:40:04 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:35:44 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/14/2012 3:28:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
"What's your view on reincarnation?"

Hooey (like any idea of an afterlife). In my opinion, these are just concepts believed by people who would be terrified of death and have anxiety thinking about it unless they believed in some form of the afterlife.

Your view of the after life is merely based on blind faith. In fact, I can use this logic against Atheism as well: Atheism was invented because of the fear of going to hell forever. By saying that God doesn't exist, there would be no afterlife and no hell.

Atheism is actually the natural state of mankind. It was invented long before conceptions of an afterlife existed.

and you can confirm this....because?
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