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Is gay killing ever ethical?

Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/15/2012 5:51:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Leviticus 20

13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Is the bible right on this or is it wrong?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/15/2012 5:52:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 5:51:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Leviticus 20

13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Is the bible right on this or is it wrong?

No no silly, that's the Old Testament ;)
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/15/2012 5:54:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Leviticus laws are still, shall we say, "active", but the punishments are not. Jesus absorbed our punishments, so to speak.

So, while it is still a sin, the punishment is not in effect.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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5/15/2012 6:05:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 5:54:01 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The Leviticus laws are still, shall we say, "active", but the punishments are not. Jesus absorbed our punishments, so to speak.

So, while it is still a sin, the punishment is not in effect.

Are these still "active" in decree, though not punishment?

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/15/2012 6:07:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 6:05:29 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 5/15/2012 5:54:01 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The Leviticus laws are still, shall we say, "active", but the punishments are not. Jesus absorbed our punishments, so to speak.

So, while it is still a sin, the punishment is not in effect.

Are these still "active" in decree, though not punishment?

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Would you mind finding the exact wording of those verses+link?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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5/15/2012 6:11:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 6:07:56 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 5/15/2012 6:05:29 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 5/15/2012 5:54:01 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The Leviticus laws are still, shall we say, "active", but the punishments are not. Jesus absorbed our punishments, so to speak.

So, while it is still a sin, the punishment is not in effect.

Are these still "active" in decree, though not punishment?

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

Would you mind finding the exact wording of those verses+link?

No problem, they're found in Leviticus 19, which usually has the header, "Various Laws."

""Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." -Verse 27

"‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." -Verse 19

For convenience, a link to Lev. 19:
http://www.biblegateway.com...

You clearly said Leviticus laws, and those are obviously Leviticus laws. I don't see how you could get around this without modifying your original statement.
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/15/2012 6:18:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
what about pork, interest, covering hair etc etc? If Christians followed what the bible says they woud be similar to muslims with respect to these customs.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/15/2012 7:47:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 5:54:01 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The Leviticus laws are still, shall we say, "active", but the punishments are not. Jesus absorbed our punishments, so to speak.

So, while it is still a sin, the punishment is not in effect.

1: Why is homosexuality wrong?

2: So basically what you are saying is that gay killings used to sometimes be right.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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5/15/2012 8:09:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 5:51:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Leviticus 20

13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Is the bible right on this or is it wrong?:


God has always been the only one able to determine a punishment by death; all justified killings, were either under the direct order of God, or caused directly by God.

When you ever read the Bible, you need to read it thru the lense of the new testament. The old testament was a prediction of the new, and it was a description of a righteous persons obligation(Christ). None of us are righteous, therefore we are not the ones to exact this punishment. So if any man killed another, because of the Law, they would bring the Law on themselves.

Therefore, it is immoral for us to kill homosexuals, or any of the persons described in that chapter - because we are all those people, and we all deserve to be put to death.

The whole point, was to break us, not to exalt those who utterly fail and pretend to be different. Christ is the man able to make such a punishment just, but instead, he died so that we may live.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/15/2012 8:16:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 8:09:10 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 5/15/2012 5:51:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Leviticus 20

13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Is the bible right on this or is it wrong?:


God has always been the only one able to determine a punishment by death; all justified killings, were either under the direct order of God, or caused directly by God.


When you ever read the Bible, you need to read it thru the lense of the new testament. The old testament was a prediction of the new, and it was a description of a righteous persons obligation(Christ). None of us are righteous, therefore we are not the ones to exact this punishment. So if any man killed another, because of the Law, they would bring the Law on themselves.


Therefore, it is immoral for us to kill homosexuals, or any of the persons described in that chapter - because we are all those people, and we all deserve to be put to death.


The whole point, was to break us, not to exalt those who utterly fail and pretend to be different. Christ is the man able to make such a punishment just, but instead, he died so that we may live.

But would you say that gay killing used to be justified?
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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5/15/2012 8:54:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 8:16:32 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/15/2012 8:09:10 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 5/15/2012 5:51:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Leviticus 20

13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Is the bible right on this or is it wrong?:


God has always been the only one able to determine a punishment by death; all justified killings, were either under the direct order of God, or caused directly by God.


When you ever read the Bible, you need to read it thru the lense of the new testament. The old testament was a prediction of the new, and it was a description of a righteous persons obligation(Christ). None of us are righteous, therefore we are not the ones to exact this punishment. So if any man killed another, because of the Law, they would bring the Law on themselves.


Therefore, it is immoral for us to kill homosexuals, or any of the persons described in that chapter - because we are all those people, and we all deserve to be put to death.


The whole point, was to break us, not to exalt those who utterly fail and pretend to be different. Christ is the man able to make such a punishment just, but instead, he died so that we may live.

But would you say that gay killing used to be justified?


Nope. how can the unjust exact a just punishment?

Anyone who reads this and murders someone(yes murder,not simply kill), because of it, is a fool.. and should repent.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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5/15/2012 8:56:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 5:54:01 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The Leviticus laws are still, shall we say, "active", but the punishments are not. Jesus absorbed our punishments, so to speak.

So, while it is still a sin, the punishment is not in effect.

Not all of us believe in the New Testament.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/15/2012 8:57:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Where'd ya go Oberherr?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/15/2012 9:02:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If you were apart of any other organization linked to as much hatred, bigotry, homophobia, racism, sexism, zenophobia, violence, genocide, war, intolerance, ignorance, domination, depravity and plain injustice, you would all resign immediately in protest unless you were a complete psychopath. But because it's religion...and obviously your eternal soul is on the line and the religious authorities are always right...it's all perfectly ok. Certainly, there's some way to rationalize it all. There's a plan and we just don't understand it.

And if that doesn't make you think, what is your brain even good for?

Not directed at anyone specific.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/15/2012 9:11:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 9:02:30 PM, FREEDO wrote:
If you were apart of any other organization linked to as much hatred, bigotry, homophobia, racism, sexism, zenophobia, violence, genocide, war, intolerance, ignorance, domination, depravity and plain injustice, you would all resign immediately in protest unless you were a complete psychopath. But because it's religion...and obviously your eternal soul is on the line and the religious authorities are always right...it's all perfectly ok. Certainly, there's some way to rationalize it all. There's a plan and we just don't understand it.

And if that doesn't make you think, what is your brain even good for?

Not directed at anyone specific.

If you want real justice, fairness and want to be liberated embrace Islam and accept the way of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/15/2012 9:25:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 9:11:50 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
At 5/15/2012 9:02:30 PM, FREEDO wrote:
If you were apart of any other organization linked to as much hatred, bigotry, homophobia, racism, sexism, zenophobia, violence, genocide, war, intolerance, ignorance, domination, depravity and plain injustice, you would all resign immediately in protest unless you were a complete psychopath. But because it's religion...and obviously your eternal soul is on the line and the religious authorities are always right...it's all perfectly ok. Certainly, there's some way to rationalize it all. There's a plan and we just don't understand it.

And if that doesn't make you think, what is your brain even good for?

Not directed at anyone specific.

If you want real justice, fairness and want to be liberated embrace Islam and accept the way of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

That's very convincing. *Drops to my face*
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/15/2012 9:30:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 8:54:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 5/15/2012 8:16:32 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/15/2012 8:09:10 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 5/15/2012 5:51:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Leviticus 20

13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Is the bible right on this or is it wrong?:


God has always been the only one able to determine a punishment by death; all justified killings, were either under the direct order of God, or caused directly by God.


When you ever read the Bible, you need to read it thru the lense of the new testament. The old testament was a prediction of the new, and it was a description of a righteous persons obligation(Christ). None of us are righteous, therefore we are not the ones to exact this punishment. So if any man killed another, because of the Law, they would bring the Law on themselves.


Therefore, it is immoral for us to kill homosexuals, or any of the persons described in that chapter - because we are all those people, and we all deserve to be put to death.


The whole point, was to break us, not to exalt those who utterly fail and pretend to be different. Christ is the man able to make such a punishment just, but instead, he died so that we may live.

But would you say that gay killing used to be justified?


Nope. how can the unjust exact a just punishment?

Because you are claiming that the Just told you what the punishment is.

Unless you are claiming that the law laid down by God in the old testament is Unjust, then the law, the punishment, should be just as long as the criteria are met.

Anyone who reads this and murders someone(yes murder,not simply kill), because of it, is a fool.. and should repent.

But thats not murder.

Was it murder, when the israelites, 3000 years ago, followed these laws and stoned homosexuals to death, or unruly children to death? Was it murder when Moses went to slaughter neighboring tribes because they were evil, on Gods command?
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/15/2012 9:31:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 9:11:50 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
At 5/15/2012 9:02:30 PM, FREEDO wrote:
If you were apart of any other organization linked to as much hatred, bigotry, homophobia, racism, sexism, zenophobia, violence, genocide, war, intolerance, ignorance, domination, depravity and plain injustice, you would all resign immediately in protest unless you were a complete psychopath. But because it's religion...and obviously your eternal soul is on the line and the religious authorities are always right...it's all perfectly ok. Certainly, there's some way to rationalize it all. There's a plan and we just don't understand it.

And if that doesn't make you think, what is your brain even good for?

Not directed at anyone specific.

If you want real justice, fairness and want to be liberated embrace Islam and accept the way of Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

I have one question.

Do Muslim suicide bombers go to heaven?
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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5/15/2012 10:15:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 9:31:46 PM, tkubok wrote:
I have one question.
Do Muslim suicide bombers go to heaven?

You seem to have some preconceived notion that Islam is in anyway shape or form even related remotely to suicide bombing which it is not. Suicide is condemned in Islam and whoever does so will be in the Hell fire.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/15/2012 11:12:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 10:15:21 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
At 5/15/2012 9:31:46 PM, tkubok wrote:
I have one question.
Do Muslim suicide bombers go to heaven?

You seem to have some preconceived notion that Islam is in anyway shape or form even related remotely to suicide bombing which it is not. Suicide is condemned in Islam and whoever does so will be in the Hell fire.

Is it ethical for you as a soldier to sacrifice your life for the lives of your companions in a war situation?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/15/2012 11:16:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 5:51:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Leviticus 20

13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Is the bible right on this or is it wrong?
I don't believe it's ethical, and I think such laws of the Bible only applied to older times.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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5/15/2012 11:23:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 6:05:29 PM, Rusty wrote:
At 5/15/2012 5:54:01 PM, OberHerr wrote:
The Leviticus laws are still, shall we say, "active", but the punishments are not. Jesus absorbed our punishments, so to speak.

So, while it is still a sin, the punishment is not in effect.

Are these still "active" in decree, though not punishment?

Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

No, these were laws for the ancient Jews, however, homosexuality appears in the New Testament as well so we know it is something that is still wrong.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/15/2012 11:26:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 11:23:37 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
No, these were laws for the ancient Jews, however, homosexuality appears in the New Testament as well so we know it is something that is still wrong.

http://www.jesusonhomosexuality.com...

TLDR: The ancient Jews divided their law into two groups: Justices and Jobs. The prohibition against homosexuality was a Job. Jesus repeatedly taught that only the Justices matter when it comes to salvation and judgment (not that I care about Jesus' opinion anyway - I'm just saying).
President of DDO
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/15/2012 11:26:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 11:16:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/15/2012 5:51:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Leviticus 20

13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Is the bible right on this or is it wrong?
I don't believe it's ethical, and I think such laws of the Bible only applied to older times.

Do you believe that it used to be ethical?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/15/2012 11:28:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 11:26:54 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/15/2012 11:16:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/15/2012 5:51:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Leviticus 20

13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Is the bible right on this or is it wrong?
I don't believe it's ethical, and I think such laws of the Bible only applied to older times.

Do you believe that it used to be ethical?
No, I'm not a moral relativist.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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5/15/2012 11:31:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 11:26:54 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 5/15/2012 11:16:22 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/15/2012 5:51:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Leviticus 20

13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Is the bible right on this or is it wrong?
I don't believe it's ethical, and I think such laws of the Bible only applied to older times.

Do you believe that it used to be ethical?

Ethics is subjective - like everything.

In those times and to certain people, if God commanded it then it was ethical.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/15/2012 11:32:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 11:31:32 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Ethics is subjective - like everything.

In those times and to certain people, if God commanded it then it was ethical.
It wasn't necessarily ethical. Perhaps it was necessary for some reason, but this would be a strict exception regardless, making the practice unethical per se.