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What is God?

phantom
Posts: 6,774
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5/18/2012 11:31:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Plenty of people believe in God but just exactly what his characteristics are is far from mutually agreed upon. Here is where you define your God.

Omnipotent - undecided
Omniscient - undecided
Morally perfect - undecided
All loving - undecided
Personal(as in, involved with his creations) - undecided
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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5/18/2012 11:38:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
My God is best described in the Bible.
But I will do my best in my own words.

My God is:
Father /My Lord
Creator/ My King eternal
Eternal/ Originator of all life
Limitless/ My shepard
A Rock /All is possible
My comfort/ Knows no bounds
My guide /My strength
My blessing /The truth
My savior
TheAsylum
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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5/19/2012 12:10:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Enter Theology.

The best answer I can give, assuming some reading this don't have the immediate experience of God that I believe many self-proclaiming Christians have, is that God is, as Anselm put it, the greatest conceivable being; if anyone could conceive of something greater, than THAT would be God, so by definition God is the maximally great being. Such existence is either possible or impossible, making God a metaphysically necessary being.

Further if God created space and time, by the very nature of the case he must be non-spacial, non-temporal and personal. Why personal? In order to cause space-time, the cause occur from an atemporal state. Now there's only one thing we can rationally speak of that causes from an atemporal state: something with Will or Volition. This makes God a personal and also a free agent.

What kind of person? Well here's where the Bible comes in. If the bible truly is this Mind's revelation to us, then it would seem God is comprised of 3 persons in one. Not three gods, but three persons in a love unity from eternity past making God.

How? Well just like you have the mental capacities and faculties to so constitute a person, so God has the mental faculties and capacities to so constitute 3 persons, 3 seats of consciousness who exist in perfect love with one another. The Father, Son & Holy Spirit.

All love means God is 'the Good' (Plato's wordage). God is the Good, and created us as a free act out of love. Somewhere in history we fell away and distanced ourselves from the good by going contrary to Good (sin). God cannot relate to immoral agents, for he's all Good. So out of another, greater act of love God sent the Son, a person, a mind to be born into the world with a regular human body (just as you are a mind with a body). So the man Christ was fully man yet fully God still. (For all love still existed between the 3 even though Christ carried himself as a human like us).

Here we see the fullest representation, the perfect model of what it means to be human: All love for God, all love for man. Christ then made radical claims to hold the power to take away that distance from the Good (sin) and bare it himself and atone for our immorality, paying the price we accrued for going contrary to God. He sacrificed himself, but God raised him from the dead and into immortal glory with him forever, thus vindicating all of Christ's claims to be God, forgive sins, etc. Before Christ left earth in a resurrection body however, he told his disciples that it's good he goes away, for if he didn't, then the helper wouldn't come to convict people of their sin and this message (helper = the Holy Spirit), then Christ told his disciples to go into all the world preaching this good news, that we may have eternal life and acquaintance with the maximally great reality if we accept the free gift.

It's the greatest love story of the universe; that the qualitatively infinite reality would bestow upon us conscious existence, but then he one ups and saves us from ourselves and provides quantitatively infinite duration within a qualitatively infinite reality. This is what paradise is, for paradise is eternity with God.

This is the God I'm most aquatinted with. All his attributes are in lingo that's not as obvious to me. Nevertheless modern theology defines each in such a way that none of them are incoherent individually or together.

I agree God is morally perfect by virtue of being the maximally greatest moral value standard. Also qualitatively infinite love works here too. All knowing just means knowledge of all true propositions and all power just means the ability to actualize any broadly logical events without contradicting God's prior arrangement not to interfere significantly with creaturely free will.

^ I accept God is ontologically maximally great in all possible worlds. I leave open his specific attributes which we may later epistemically discover... or never know.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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5/19/2012 12:29:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is a very important thread, and one I had been thinking about making for a long time.

In discussions about "God" we presuppose far too much about the "God" we are talking about.

Then we dismiss entire arguments because we suppose it's associated with another facet when it's not the case. And why say "God" anyway? The word carries too much connotation, and I honestly think we use it far more than we should.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

I believe in the heart of the cards. .:DDO Duelist:.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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5/19/2012 12:38:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
What is God? Lord don't smite me, don't smite me, no more.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/19/2012 12:58:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/18/2012 11:31:10 PM, phantom wrote:
Plenty of people believe in God but just exactly what his characteristics are is far from mutually agreed upon. Here is where you define your God.

Omnipotent - Not sure yet
Omniscient - No
Morally perfect - No
All loving - No
Personal(as in, involved with his creations) - No

Not sure if this really even qualifies as God then but I still carry the Deist label.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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5/19/2012 1:32:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 1:27:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
My Goddess exists but outside of reality and cannot thus be related to any real concept.

All hail Eris
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
FREEDO
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5/19/2012 1:34:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 1:32:18 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 5/19/2012 1:27:47 AM, FREEDO wrote:
My Goddess exists but outside of reality and cannot thus be related to any real concept.

All hail Eris

Ewige Blumenkraft. Hail! Hail! Glory to Discordia. Nothing exists. All things are permitted. Rub-a-dub-dub.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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5/19/2012 1:39:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Omnipotent - Yes, in the sense of being able to do anything that can be done. All-powerful, none of this 'can't make a boulder too heavy to lift' nonsense.
Omniscient - Yes, in the sense of knowing everything that can be known.
Morally perfect - Yes.
All loving - Yes.
Personal(as in, involved with his creations) - Yes
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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5/19/2012 4:19:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
A imaginary construct created throughout human history for the purposes of explaining currently unexplained phenomena, creating social cohesion, and mitigating fear of death.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/19/2012 5:33:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/18/2012 11:31:10 PM, phantom wrote:
Plenty of people believe in God but just exactly what his characteristics are is far from mutually agreed upon. Here is where you define your God.

Omnipotent - undecided
Omniscient - undecided
Morally perfect - undecided
All loving - undecided
Personal(as in, involved with his creations) - undecided

He is Jesus Christ on a cross, dying for YOU.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Clash
Posts: 220
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5/19/2012 6:17:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
"Say: He is Allah, The One and Only. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him." (Qur'an 112:1-4)

This.
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/19/2012 6:17:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/18/2012 11:31:10 PM, phantom wrote:
Plenty of people believe in God but just exactly what his characteristics are is far from mutually agreed upon. Here is where you define your God.

Omnipotent - undecided
Omniscient - undecided
Morally perfect - undecided
All loving - undecided
Personal(as in, involved with his creations) - undecided

God is simply the creator of the Universe who has communicated with humanity since he first showed himself t us a few thousand years ago. God is, indeed, all loving, all knowing, and his plan is perfect.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
cbrhawk1
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5/19/2012 6:21:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 4:19:00 AM, Kinesis wrote:
A imaginary construct created throughout human history for the purposes of explaining currently unexplained phenomena, creating social cohesion, and mitigating fear of death.

Most religions don't try to prevent you from dying. They embrace death. Embracing death instead of avoiding it to preserve the species flies in the face of all that is natural.

Of course, individuals still fear death even with God, so even if your inane example is correct, it's incredibly weak reinforcement and doesn't explain why religions persist with many similar aspects.

Also, consider those who were killed because of their faith.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/19/2012 7:07:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
"The only person who can be sure of the existence of a God conjured by their own mind is the owner of that mind. One does not have to be a member of Mensa to figure that one out."
-- Michael Tsarion
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
cbrhawk1
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5/19/2012 7:29:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 7:07:20 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"The only person who can be sure of the existence of a God conjured by their own mind is the owner of that mind. One does not have to be a member of Mensa to figure that one out."
-- Michael Tsarion

I've yet to see a person who has conjured up God in their own mind. We'd have trouble keeping such a story straight for twelve hours, much less over thousands of years.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/19/2012 7:37:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 7:29:50 AM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
At 5/19/2012 7:07:20 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
"The only person who can be sure of the existence of a God conjured by their own mind is the owner of that mind. One does not have to be a member of Mensa to figure that one out."
-- Michael Tsarion

I've yet to see a person who has conjured up God in their own mind. We'd have trouble keeping such a story straight for twelve hours, much less over thousands of years.

Look at all the responses in this thread. Everyone has posted their own version of God that they have conjured up in their mind.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/19/2012 8:21:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 7:37:55 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Look at all the responses in this thread. Everyone has posted their own version of God that they have conjured up in their mind.

But you would agree that we can show who is more correct right?
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/19/2012 8:32:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Look at all the responses in this thread. Everyone has posted their own version of God that they have conjured up in their mind.

Well, if we're allowed to use the conclusion as the argument, I guess the objective proof that God exists is that God created the Universe,therefore, he exists outside of our own minds.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/19/2012 8:42:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 6:21:07 AM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
At 5/19/2012 4:19:00 AM, Kinesis wrote:
A imaginary construct created throughout human history for the purposes of explaining currently unexplained phenomena, creating social cohesion, and mitigating fear of death.

Most religions don't try to prevent you from dying. They embrace death. Embracing death instead of avoiding it to preserve the species flies in the face of all that is natural.

The two most popular religions in the world attempt to prevent death, besides, a belief in a supernatural afterlife seems pretty commonly associated with religion.

Of course, individuals still fear death even with God, so even if your inane example is correct, it's incredibly weak reinforcement and doesn't explain why religions persist with many similar aspects.

Also, consider those who were killed because of their faith.

He wasn't saying it was a big conspiracy on the part of the religious, only that the initial formation of religion was not due to divine revelation but more likely due to natural attempts to explain a world we didn't understand (put simply).
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/19/2012 8:49:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The two most popular religions in the world attempt to prevent death, besides, a belief in a supernatural afterlife seems pretty commonly associated with religion.

Thy just say there is a life after this one. They don't say you won't ever die in this world. The fear of death was never based on what would happen after. The fear of death is the pain associated with t.

He wasn't saying it was a big conspiracy on the part of the religious, only that the initial formation of religion was not due to divine revelation but more likely due to natural attempts to explain a world we didn't understand (put simply).

If Gods were truly used instead of observations, then we simly would have never observed. God showed himself, then others seized God and expanded upon it. Sometimes, for their own gluttonous attempts at power.

Why do you think that, around the time of Adam was when cities started being built and civilizations that never connected in millions of years of the homo genus (even when right next to each other) started coming together? It's because God took the smartest animal and made him human by revealing himself, giving humanity power so long as it didn't seek to abuse it.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/19/2012 8:56:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 4:19:00 AM, Kinesis wrote:
A imaginary construct created throughout human history

Yes.

for the purposes of explaining currently unexplained phenomena, creating social cohesion, and mitigating fear of death.

False.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/19/2012 8:58:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 8:21:43 AM, stubs wrote:
At 5/19/2012 7:37:55 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Look at all the responses in this thread. Everyone has posted their own version of God that they have conjured up in their mind.

But you would agree that we can show who is more correct right?

That's not the right question to ask.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/19/2012 9:07:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 8:58:56 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 5/19/2012 8:21:43 AM, stubs wrote:

But you would agree that we can show who is more correct right?

That's not the right question to ask.

But if we can show that it is more likely a maximally great being exists rather than a pantheistic view, it would show it's more rational to believe in a mgb right?
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/19/2012 9:45:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 9:07:41 AM, stubs wrote:
At 5/19/2012 8:58:56 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
That's not the right question to ask.

But if we can show that it is more likely a maximally great being exists rather than a pantheistic view, it would show it's more rational to believe in a mgb right?

Perhaps, but good luck trying to show that a maximally great being is more likely than a Pantheistic God.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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5/19/2012 10:02:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 9:45:45 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Perhaps, but good luck trying to show that a maximally great being is more likely than a Pantheistic God.

I think it's quite easy
SuburbiaSurvivor
Posts: 872
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5/19/2012 10:33:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 10:02:47 AM, stubs wrote:
At 5/19/2012 9:45:45 AM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:

Perhaps, but good luck trying to show that a maximally great being is more likely than a Pantheistic God.

I think it's quite easy

Pantheism simply does not make sense in light of war and conflict.
"I'm going to tell you something that you're never going to forget, SuburbiaSurvivor. Women... Are just human beings"