Total Posts:38|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Church

phantom
Posts: 6,774
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2012 10:49:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sometimes I wander why I go to church. Half the things they teach I don't even believe in. The pastors manipulate the scripture to fit the church's denominations beliefs. Every one is knitted into the same pocket of opinions and interpretations. Allot of the people don't have interest in logic founded beliefs or skepticism; just almost blind faith.

Does any one else here feel the same way?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2012 11:10:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No, but that's because I have a good church which I feel comfortable with.

If the problem is you don't believe in the Bible or Christ then don't go.

But if you feel that the church atmosphere is just wrong and you still believe the core values and beliefs then you might just need to find a new church. There is nothing wrong with actively looking for a better or more comfortable church for you.
EvanK
Posts: 599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2012 11:21:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 10:49:06 PM, phantom wrote:
Sometimes I wander why I go to church. Half the things they teach I don't even believe in. The pastors manipulate the scripture to fit the church's denominations beliefs. Every one is knitted into the same pocket of opinions and interpretations. Allot of the people don't have interest in logic founded beliefs or skepticism; just almost blind faith.

Does any one else here feel the same way?

All depends on the person. Personally, I like going to mass, but I don't consider myself Catholic. I go because my parents still think I am (I'm 17, and haven't told them I'm deist, because I don't want to cause any trouble). My problem wasn't with the ceremonies or any of the people (although there are a few I don't care for). My problem was with the religion, I personally just stopped believing. I have many reasons, too many to list, and it would hijack your discussion. Point is, many people have different reasons for not attending church. If yours is because of the ceremonies or the way the pastor/priest preaches, then I suggest finding another church. However, if you're like me (and you come off as being so) and you're interested in logical reasons and beliefs, then you likely won't fit in at any other churc. Just my opinion, though.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
EvanK
Posts: 599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2012 11:22:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 11:21:10 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 5/19/2012 10:49:06 PM, phantom wrote:
Sometimes I wander why I go to church. Half the things they teach I don't even believe in. The pastors manipulate the scripture to fit the church's denominations beliefs. Every one is knitted into the same pocket of opinions and interpretations. Allot of the people don't have interest in logic founded beliefs or skepticism; just almost blind faith.

Does any one else here feel the same way?

All depends on the person. Personally, I like going to mass, but I don't consider myself Catholic. I go because my parents still think I am (I'm 17, and haven't told them I'm deist, because I don't want to cause any trouble). My problem wasn't with the ceremonies or any of the people (although there are a few I don't care for). My problem was with the religion, I personally just stopped believing. I have many reasons, too many to list, and it would hijack your discussion. Point is, many people have different reasons for not attending church. If yours is because of the ceremonies or the way the pastor/priest preaches, then I suggest finding another church. However, if you're like me (and you come off as being so) and you're interested in logical reasons and beliefs, then you likely won't fit in at any other churc. Just my opinion, though.

By the way, just to get this out there, I don't mean to come off as anti religion or anything. I've been called so on other websites, so I just want to clear that up ;D
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
phantom
Posts: 6,774
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2012 11:24:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 11:10:52 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
No, but that's because I have a good church which I feel comfortable with.

If the problem is you don't believe in the Bible or Christ then don't go.

But if you feel that the church atmosphere is just wrong and you still believe the core values and beliefs then you might just need to find a new church. There is nothing wrong with actively looking for a better or more comfortable church for you.

Every church has its own set of beliefs and teachings and almost always holds a literal and inherent view of the Bible. It's almost like being taught be a biased atheist scientist every week. They just teach things like it's fact and if you don't agree, people will think you're strange. The church's that try to be more open are usually not any good. My family, nor anyone from my church, have any idea I hold these thoughts. I'm to scared to tell them I've "strayed from the path"(lol).

And I do believe in the Bible and Christ btw
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2012 11:24:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 10:49:06 PM, phantom wrote:
Sometimes I wander why I go to church. Half the things they teach I don't even believe in. The pastors manipulate the scripture to fit the church's denominations beliefs. Every one is knitted into the same pocket of opinions and interpretations. Allot of the people don't have interest in logic founded beliefs or skepticism; just almost blind faith.

Does any one else here feel the same way?

If I went to a fundamentalist church or an "overly liberal" church (that's subject to interpretation, of course) I probably would have a lot of issues. I go to a church that is fairly moderate and seems to have a nice mix of conservatives, moderates, and liberals which is pretty cool.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2012 11:26:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 11:10:52 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
No, but that's because I have a good church which I feel comfortable with.

If the problem is you don't believe in the Bible or Christ then don't go.

But if you feel that the church atmosphere is just wrong and you still believe the core values and beliefs then you might just need to find a new church. There is nothing wrong with actively looking for a better or more comfortable church for you.

Yeah, you just need to be a part of a different flock.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
phantom
Posts: 6,774
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2012 11:27:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 11:21:10 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 5/19/2012 10:49:06 PM, phantom wrote:
Sometimes I wander why I go to church. Half the things they teach I don't even believe in. The pastors manipulate the scripture to fit the church's denominations beliefs. Every one is knitted into the same pocket of opinions and interpretations. Allot of the people don't have interest in logic founded beliefs or skepticism; just almost blind faith.

Does any one else here feel the same way?

All depends on the person. Personally, I like going to mass, but I don't consider myself Catholic. I go because my parents still think I am (I'm 17, and haven't told them I'm deist, because I don't want to cause any trouble). My problem wasn't with the ceremonies or any of the people (although there are a few I don't care for). My problem was with the religion, I personally just stopped believing. I have many reasons, too many to list, and it would hijack your discussion. Point is, many people have different reasons for not attending church. If yours is because of the ceremonies or the way the pastor/priest preaches, then I suggest finding another church. However, if you're like me (and you come off as being so) and you're interested in logical reasons and beliefs, then you likely won't fit in at any other churc. Just my opinion, though.

I get where you're coming from, and I think I agree. I probably won't ever find a church I'm satisfied with.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2012 11:29:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 11:24:16 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/19/2012 11:10:52 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
No, but that's because I have a good church which I feel comfortable with.

If the problem is you don't believe in the Bible or Christ then don't go.

But if you feel that the church atmosphere is just wrong and you still believe the core values and beliefs then you might just need to find a new church. There is nothing wrong with actively looking for a better or more comfortable church for you.

Every church has its own set of beliefs and teachings and almost always holds a literal and inherent view of the Bible. It's almost like being taught be a biased atheist scientist every week. They just teach things like it's fact and if you don't agree, people will think you're strange. The church's that try to be more open are usually not any good. My family, nor anyone from my church, have any idea I hold these thoughts. I'm to scared to tell them I've "strayed from the path"(lol).

And I do believe in the Bible and Christ btw

You might want to try:

a) Bible study or discussion - they usually hold a more open forum type of study

b) Try different churches and denominations that fit your style of beliefs. I'm Lutheran and its a perfect fit for me but I went to a Presbyterian Church once and felt down right out of place

c) Raise your concerns with someone, maybe you can start a discussion group of your own
phantom
Posts: 6,774
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/19/2012 11:38:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 11:29:33 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 5/19/2012 11:24:16 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/19/2012 11:10:52 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
No, but that's because I have a good church which I feel comfortable with.

If the problem is you don't believe in the Bible or Christ then don't go.

But if you feel that the church atmosphere is just wrong and you still believe the core values and beliefs then you might just need to find a new church. There is nothing wrong with actively looking for a better or more comfortable church for you.

Every church has its own set of beliefs and teachings and almost always holds a literal and inherent view of the Bible. It's almost like being taught be a biased atheist scientist every week. They just teach things like it's fact and if you don't agree, people will think you're strange. The church's that try to be more open are usually not any good. My family, nor anyone from my church, have any idea I hold these thoughts. I'm to scared to tell them I've "strayed from the path"(lol).

And I do believe in the Bible and Christ btw

You might want to try:

a) Bible study or discussion - they usually hold a more open forum type of study

Perhaps. The ones I've been in tend to be rather boring lol

b) Try different churches and denominations that fit your style of beliefs. I'm Lutheran and its a perfect fit for me but I went to a Presbyterian Church once and felt down right out of place

I don't like labelling myself by any denomination and don't see why people feel the need to. But I will probably just quit going to church during or after college.


c) Raise your concerns with someone, maybe you can start a discussion group of your own

That sounds interesting. I could definately see myself doing this. But it's hard to find people who share my thoughts. Maybe when I go to college.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
EvanK
Posts: 599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/20/2012 12:32:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 11:27:43 PM, phantom wrote:
At 5/19/2012 11:21:10 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 5/19/2012 10:49:06 PM, phantom wrote:
Sometimes I wander why I go to church. Half the things they teach I don't even believe in. The pastors manipulate the scripture to fit the church's denominations beliefs. Every one is knitted into the same pocket of opinions and interpretations. Allot of the people don't have interest in logic founded beliefs or skepticism; just almost blind faith.

Does any one else here feel the same way?

All depends on the person. Personally, I like going to mass, but I don't consider myself Catholic. I go because my parents still think I am (I'm 17, and haven't told them I'm deist, because I don't want to cause any trouble). My problem wasn't with the ceremonies or any of the people (although there are a few I don't care for). My problem was with the religion, I personally just stopped believing. I have many reasons, too many to list, and it would hijack your discussion. Point is, many people have different reasons for not attending church. If yours is because of the ceremonies or the way the pastor/priest preaches, then I suggest finding another church. However, if you're like me (and you come off as being so) and you're interested in logical reasons and beliefs, then you likely won't fit in at any other churc. Just my opinion, though.

I get where you're coming from, and I think I agree. I probably won't ever find a church I'm satisfied with.

Yeah, it's all up to you! Whatever makes sense in your head. I just suggest looking into every type of religious beliefs and see whether or not it makes sense. There are all kinds of forms of christianity, or perhaps you'll become a deist, believe in God, but not religion. Whatever it is, hopefully you find it!
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/20/2012 12:36:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 11:24:25 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/19/2012 10:49:06 PM, phantom wrote:
Sometimes I wander why I go to church. Half the things they teach I don't even believe in. The pastors manipulate the scripture to fit the church's denominations beliefs. Every one is knitted into the same pocket of opinions and interpretations. Allot of the people don't have interest in logic founded beliefs or skepticism; just almost blind faith.

Does any one else here feel the same way?

If I went to a fundamentalist church or an "overly liberal" church (that's subject to interpretation, of course) I probably would have a lot of issues. I go to a church that is fairly moderate and seems to have a nice mix of conservatives, moderates, and liberals which is pretty cool.

Catholicism FTW!!!!

Seriously though, I agree with you.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/20/2012 1:36:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Really going to church and having their beliefs and doctrine is not always healthy. It depends on the church. I have been to many that I did not feel comfortable in. I have been in others I could feel the Holy Ghost present. That should be the feeling you look for, the presence of the Holy Ghost. But going to church is not as important as most claim. The most important thing is your study in the word. Your faith in God. Your gives and takes from God. Your pentance. That is nothing any church can give you nor any man. That is between you and God. If you truely have God then the churchs you go to either are not for you or you are not for them. Your faith is what is important, not man made dogma. Maybe you also are not meant for church but to teach.
TheAsylum
Ren
Posts: 7,102
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/20/2012 1:36:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 11:26:03 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/19/2012 11:10:52 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
No, but that's because I have a good church which I feel comfortable with.

If the problem is you don't believe in the Bible or Christ then don't go.

But if you feel that the church atmosphere is just wrong and you still believe the core values and beliefs then you might just need to find a new church. There is nothing wrong with actively looking for a better or more comfortable church for you.

Yeah, you just need to be a part of a different flock.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/20/2012 1:40:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've always wondered, do people who go to church actually believe the priest is a holy man? Or do you guys just accept the fact that it's just some dude..
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/20/2012 1:41:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 1:40:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I've always wondered, do people who go to church actually believe the priest is a holy man? Or do you guys just accept the fact that it's just some dude..

Depends on who the man is. But he is just a man. Some are fake, Some can draw the Holy Ghost.
TheAsylum
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/20/2012 3:28:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 10:49:06 PM, phantom wrote:
Sometimes I wander why I go to church. Half the things they teach I don't even believe in. The pastors manipulate the scripture to fit the church's denominations beliefs. Every one is knitted into the same pocket of opinions and interpretations. Allot of the people don't have interest in logic founded beliefs or skepticism; just almost blind faith.

Does any one else here feel the same way?

I do.

I find it very difficult to get involved in a church because it claims that one man can tell you the truth, and he behind that podium or walking around with a raised voice. I don't think that's how it's supposed to work.

But, I think you are missing out on the benefit of church by focusing on the negative. The benefit of church is for a bunch of people who love God to come together and testify to one another. Hopefully, before, during, and after church, your mind is on God regardles of how much you talk about him.

You can ignore the pastor entirely and get almost as much out of it. Unfortunately, I feel like I need to listen to everyone, so I can never do that, and that's why I can probably never do it.

Church should be more about personal testimony, where many people can talk about their experiences with God, not as an absolute truth (no human or human writing is even closeIMO), but rather as a perceived experience. I think that's the best way we can relate to one another, and how we can relate to those who do not know God.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 1:03:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Or you can just practice religion outside of the Church.

Faith and Church are not interdependent. Church usually serves as a way to make sure you don't stray. It's a reinforcement thing.

If you think you can stay on path without it then skip it.
Platypus666
Posts: 262
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 2:04:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Church is such a tie-down. So glad I'm out of that scene.
NEVER LOGGING IN UNLESS I AM HIGH

Official "The (Weed) Aquatic (Weed) and (Weed) Egg (Weed) Laying (Weed) Mammalian (Weed) Enforceress (Weed) of (Weed) Liberty (Weed), Cuddliness (Weed), and (Weed) Involuntary (Weed) Administration (Weed) of (POT) Psychoactive (Weed) Substances (Weed) To (Weed) All (Weed) The (Weed) Masses (Weed) Under (Weed?) The (Weed!) Control (Weed) of (Weed) The (Weed) All (Weed) High (Weed) FREEDO (Weed) and (Weed) Yyyyyyyyyyyyeah (WEED)" of the FREEDO Bureaucracy.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 2:14:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 2:11:59 AM, ivanmaric wrote:
Why are you wasting so much of your time? God doesn't exist. Why go to Church?

To infiltrate them, of course.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
stubs
Posts: 1,887
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 6:19:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 1:40:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I've always wondered, do people who go to church actually believe the priest is a holy man? Or do you guys just accept the fact that it's just some dude..

I've never thought of any pastor as some holy man, and I've never seen a pastor claim he is. Maybe it's a catholic thing idk?
stubs
Posts: 1,887
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 6:21:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't believe there is really a "perfect" church for someone. Someone once told me, "If you ever find the perfect church you should leave, because if you're there it wouldn't be perfect anymore."
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 6:31:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 6:21:08 AM, stubs wrote:
I don't believe there is really a "perfect" church for someone. Someone once told me, "If you ever find the perfect church you should leave, because if you're there it wouldn't be perfect anymore."

That is great analogy. We do not need church. We ourselves should be the church of God.
TheAsylum
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 6:32:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 1:40:03 AM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I've always wondered, do people who go to church actually believe the priest is a holy man? Or do you guys just accept the fact that it's just some dude..

I don't like he is holy, and mine has never claimed to be.

He just has a gift for explaining things, and teaching.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 9:52:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 10:49:06 PM, phantom wrote:
Sometimes I wander why I go to church. Half the things they teach I don't even believe in. The pastors manipulate the scripture to fit the church's denominations beliefs. Every one is knitted into the same pocket of opinions and interpretations. Allot of the people don't have interest in logic founded beliefs or skepticism; just almost blind faith.

Does any one else here feel the same way?

YES!

But for me, if I love God more it is because:

Luke 7:47
Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—as her great love has shown. But whoever has been forgiven little loves little."


and if I am strong in the Lord compared to others it's because:

2 Corinthians 12:9
But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.


So try to endure it with humility.
The Cross.. the Cross.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 10:16:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 2:11:59 AM, ivanmaric wrote:
Why are you wasting so much of your time? God doesn't exist. Why go to Church?

Screw off. Atheists don't need to comment on every single theist thread.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 7:23:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 6:31:49 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:

That is great analogy. We do not need church. We ourselves should be the church of God.

Ehh. We don't need a church for salvation. That being said we should go to church and be the church.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/21/2012 7:48:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/19/2012 10:49:06 PM, phantom wrote:
Sometimes I wander why I go to church. Half the things they teach I don't even believe in. The pastors manipulate the scripture to fit the church's denominations beliefs. Every one is knitted into the same pocket of opinions and interpretations. Allot of the people don't have interest in logic founded beliefs or skepticism; just almost blind faith.

Does any one else here feel the same way?


Seems like you need to find a new church.

When i was growing up, my parents did a lot of church hopping.. I was blessed with a very sharp dad, who has a very keen understanding of Law and Gospel. It's tough, but you need to read the word, and become more familiar with what it says.

My Church is pretty cool, its got a decent amount of younger families and such.. none of whom i'm really aquainted with, even thought i've been going there since i was 9.. lol

But i'm not there to dance and talk about my life and God's impact on it. I go to here the word; to feed my soul.

If you feel like you aren't being fed, then, to me, you aren't receiving the good news.

I think, a good church, welcomes the believers in struggle, and loves to help them find answers.

I have several guys at my church who have multiple degrees in relevant fields and activelty teach and discuss theology and such all week.

check it out.

http://www.christreformed.org...

they have a lot of lectures and sermons available to check out on the site.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.