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How do you deal with this?

Veridas
Posts: 733
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5/20/2012 11:21:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
How do you emotionally cope with the idea that your religion is losing influence in the world? To the point where there are more atheists and agnostics now than there have ever been? To the point where there are now countries with atheistic rather than theistic majorities?

How do you emotionally deal with the idea that people have seen your God and your ideas and decided that, actually, they are not best for humanity. They are only best for you, and it is now on you to prove otherwise.

How do you live with the knowledge that your ideas on things like the seperation of church and state, homophobia, your opposition to stem cell research, contraception and abortions, your insistence upon giving money to an organisation that has no ideological use for it while people are starving to death, and your belief that scientific progress and the pursuit of knowledge is anathema rather than a just cause?

In short, what does it feel like to know that you'll be looked upon unfavourably in history, when you're too busy spending your last years and last decades hating needlessly instead of trying to preserve what you're supposed to hold dear using nonthreatening and beneficial rather than belligerant tactics?
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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5/20/2012 11:41:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 11:21:36 AM, Veridas wrote:
How do you emotionally cope with the idea that your religion is losing influence in the world? To the point where there are more atheists and agnostics now than there have ever been? To the point where there are now countries with atheistic rather than theistic majorities?
You don't. Why do you need to cope?

How do you emotionally deal with the idea that people have seen your God and your ideas and decided that, actually, they are not best for humanity. They are only best for you, and it is now on you to prove otherwise.
You don't. Why do you need to cope? People make their own decisions.

How do you live with the knowledge that your ideas on things like the seperation of church and state, homophobia, your opposition to stem cell research, contraception and abortions, your insistence upon giving money to an organisation that has no ideological use for it while people are starving to death, and your belief that scientific progress and the pursuit of knowledge is anathema rather than a just cause?
1. I support the separation of Church and state
2. I do not have homophobia
3. I support stem cell research
4. I don't know what you are talking about in the last part because I believe science and knowledge is a just cause.
5. Abortion is not a religious issue, there are many atheists opposed to abortion.
6. The Church helps those people who re starving to death.

In short, what does it feel like to know that you'll be looked upon unfavourably in history, when you're too busy spending your last years and last decades hating needlessly instead of trying to preserve what you're supposed to hold dear using nonthreatening and beneficial rather than belligerant tactics?

1. I have not been spending my last years hating
2. I have been using nonthreatening and beneficial tactics
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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5/20/2012 2:18:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
bump
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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5/20/2012 3:12:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
"Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and the spiritual, and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity."

-- Albert Einstein

"For a parallel to the lesson of atomic theory...[we must turn] to those kinds of epistemological problems with which already thinkers like the Buddha and Lao Tzu have been confronted, when trying to harmonize our position as spectators and actors in the great drama of existence."

-- Niels Bohr

"Buddhism is a combination of both speculative and scientific philosophy. It advocates the scientific method and pursues that to a finality that may be called Rationalistic. In it are to be found answers to such questions of interest as: 'What is mind and matter? Of them, which is of greater importance? Is the universe moving towards a goal? What is man's position? Is there living that is noble?' It takes up where science cannot lead because of the limitations of the latter's instruments. Its conquests are those of the mind."

-- Bertrand Russell

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"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/20/2012 3:26:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 11:21:36 AM, Veridas wrote:
How do you emotionally cope with the idea that your religion is losing influence in the world?

It's not really....is growing a lot.

To the point where there are more atheists and agnostics now than there have :ever been?

There are also more Christians than there have ever been,

To the point where there are now countries with atheistic rather than theistic :majorities?


And vice versa. There are a lot of people in the world. Point?

How do you emotionally deal with the idea that people have seen your God and your ideas and decided that, actually, they are not best for humanity. They are only best for you, and it is now on you to prove otherwise.


It's actually on you to prove their not better.......

How do you live with the knowledge that your ideas on things like the seperation of church and state, homophobia, your opposition to stem cell research, contraception and abortions, your insistence upon giving money to an organisation that has no ideological use for it while people are starving to death, and your belief that scientific progress and the pursuit of knowledge is anathema rather than a just cause?


I'm for separation of Church and State, though for the Founder's reasons.

I'm not homophobic....and not many Christians I know are. In fact, most of the Atheists I know are the most homophobic.

I don't have too much of an opinion on stem cell, mainly due to lack of knowledge, but as much as I know I'm for it.

Um, Abortion =/= exclusively religious view

You do realize those evil Christian organization use it to feed the starved? And that's what MANY Christian organizations do?

Um, I'm not sure what your saying for the last part, but I believe science and religion can coexist.....

In short, what does it feel like to know that you'll be looked upon unfavourably in history, when you're too busy spending your last years and last decades hating needlessly instead of trying to preserve what you're supposed to hold dear using nonthreatening and beneficial rather than belligerant tactics?

Um, we're not, and our "last years?"

Hah. Yeah, cool story bro, we're not going anywhere. And you sir, are using the hateful belligerent tactics.
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Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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5/20/2012 3:32:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 11:21:36 AM, Veridas wrote:
How do you emotionally cope with the idea that your religion is losing influence in the world? To the point where there are more atheists and agnostics now than there have ever been? To the point where there are now countries with atheistic rather than theistic majorities?

How do you emotionally deal with the idea that people have seen your God and your ideas and decided that, actually, they are not best for humanity. They are only best for you, and it is now on you to prove otherwise.

How do you live with the knowledge that your ideas on things like the seperation of church and state, homophobia, your opposition to stem cell research, contraception and abortions, your insistence upon giving money to an organisation that has no ideological use for it while people are starving to death, and your belief that scientific progress and the pursuit of knowledge is anathema rather than a just cause?

In short, what does it feel like to know that you'll be looked upon unfavourably in history, when you're too busy spending your last years and last decades hating needlessly instead of trying to preserve what you're supposed to hold dear using nonthreatening and beneficial rather than belligerant tactics?

They don't need to cope. They just feel sad that godlessness is taking over the globe and they pray for all the fallen souls.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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5/20/2012 3:37:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 11:21:36 AM, Veridas wrote:
How do you emotionally cope with the idea that your religion is losing influence in the world? To the point where there are more atheists and agnostics now than there have ever been? To the point where there are now countries with atheistic rather than theistic majorities?

How do you emotionally deal with the idea that people have seen your God and your ideas and decided that, actually, they are not best for humanity. They are only best for you, and it is now on you to prove otherwise.

How do you live with the knowledge that your ideas on things like the seperation of church and state, homophobia, your opposition to stem cell research, contraception and abortions, your insistence upon giving money to an organisation that has no ideological use for it while people are starving to death, and your belief that scientific progress and the pursuit of knowledge is anathema rather than a just cause?

In short, what does it feel like to know that you'll be looked upon unfavourably in history, when you're too busy spending your last years and last decades hating needlessly instead of trying to preserve what you're supposed to hold dear using nonthreatening and beneficial rather than belligerant tactics?

Brother praise the Lord. No one can take your faith nor your integritity. Science can have the claims of evidence and facts. When my truth is far beyond the physical realm they are trapped to. They are caught inside the nets. I myself have did the same things you mentioned. Shamed myself. That is because I am a man. But I love Jesus and defend him falsely at times. I bark with my stupidity rather than be calm in God's knowledge. Nothing can strip your faith and belief. Holding strong to it is what makes us the truth Faith. Stay strong and stay faithful.
TheAsylum
LibertyCampbell
Posts: 288
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5/20/2012 3:41:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I rest contented knowing the world is about to descend into chaos. Whether that has anything to do with religion is unknown, but I'm rather optimistic about the aftermath.
"[Society] has no vested interest in continuing to exist." -RP
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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5/20/2012 3:47:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I can cope quite easily knowing that I've sampled many different philosophies, including atheism, and mine is the only worldview that actually makes sense.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/20/2012 3:48:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I loved his point about there being more Atheists than ever before. So?

There is a lot more humans in the world today! Not to mention there is a TON of Christians in the world today.
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Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

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Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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5/20/2012 3:58:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I hope the picture is as favourable as you're making it out to be. Humanity needs to lose its belief in magic so we can hurry up and solve the problems down here in reality.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/20/2012 4:01:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 3:58:56 PM, Kinesis wrote:
I hope the picture is as favourable as you're making it out to be. Humanity needs to lose its belief in magic so we can hurry up and solve the problems down here in reality.

Funny how much we have solved while believing in magic as you put it, isn't it?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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LibertyCampbell
Posts: 288
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5/20/2012 4:12:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 3:58:56 PM, Kinesis wrote:
I hope the picture is as favourable as you're making it out to be. Humanity needs to lose its belief in magic so we can hurry up and solve the problems down here in reality.

Who believes in magic? God isn't casting fireballs at us.

And why should we solve the problems? We aren't really important, anyways.

What problems, anyhow? Nature is nature is nature is nature.
"[Society] has no vested interest in continuing to exist." -RP
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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5/20/2012 4:38:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 4:01:17 PM, OberHerr wrote:
Funny how much we have solved while believing in magic as you put it, isn't it?

Well sure, religion certainly isn't all bad as far as its practical effects are concerned. But vast amounts of effort and resources have been wasted throughout human history in the service of countless religions which could be better put to use advancing scientific knowledge, building sustainable societies and solving world hunger and disease. I also suspect the widespread belief in a supernatural afterlife has retarded public support for efforts to extend the human lifespan. I want to live for at least a thousand years, since this is the one life I'll get.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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5/20/2012 4:47:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 4:12:09 PM, LibertyCampbell wrote:
Who believes in magic? God isn't casting fireballs at us.

For someone who believes God wished the universe into existence, made a man out of dirt and a women out of a rib, had followers who could summon food from the sky, birthed a son without the use of sex who could walk on water and will water into wine and fly up into the sky, I find it difficult to believe you don't worry that your beliefs could be construed as belief in magic.

Hadoukens really wouldn't be out of place in the Bible.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,927
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5/20/2012 4:52:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 3:58:56 PM, Kinesis wrote:
I hope the picture is as favourable as you're making it out to be. Humanity needs to lose its belief in magic so we can hurry up and solve the problems down here in reality.

Rofl. You sound like Luke Muelhauser after his blog started sucking.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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5/20/2012 5:02:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 4:52:34 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
Rofl. You sound like Luke Muelhauser after his blog started sucking.

Ha ha, to be honest I wrote that knowing it would provoke a response because I wanted to argue with someone. I see the main purpose of this site as blowing off steam.
Veridas
Posts: 733
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5/20/2012 5:33:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1dustpelt said:
You don't. Why do you need to cope?

I don't. That's sort of the point.

1dustpelt said:
You don't. Why do you need to cope? People make their own decisions.

I really don't think a statement like that applies to modern religion.

1dustpelt said:
1. I support the separation of Church and state
2. I do not have homophobia
3. I support stem cell research
4. I don't know what you are talking about in the last part because I believe science and knowledge is a just cause.
5. Abortion is not a religious issue, there are many atheists opposed to abortion.
6. The Church helps those people who re starving to death.

I would question whether or not your church supports these things. Oh, and offering charity to people is all good and well, except when you do so conditionally.

1dustpelt said:
1. I have not been spending my last years hating
2. I have been using nonthreatening and beneficial tactics

You, perhaps. However, again, does your church?

Oberherr said:
It's not really....is growing a lot.

Where? and by how much? European countries have their religious identity divided, yet church membership drops and Atheism grows.

Oberherr said:
There are also more Christians than there have ever been,

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"Despite its status as the most widespread and influential religion in the US, Christianity has undergone a continuous relative decline in demographics. While the absolute number of Christians rose from 1990 to 2008 as the overall population increased, the actual percentage of Christians dropped from 86.2% to 76.0%"

Oberherr said:
And vice versa. There are a lot of people in the world. Point?

Point: percentages contextualise numbers.

Oberherr said:
It's actually on you to prove their not better.......

Well nobody's ever been tortured in the name of atheism or told how to live their life in the name of atheism or had their basic rights denied them in the name of atheism. Nobody's ever started a war to spread atheism or killed someone in the process of attempting to torture them into deconverting.

So I'd say we're doing well so far.

Oberherr said:
In fact, most of the Atheists I know are the most homophobic.

And I'm sure you'll have no problem providing some names.

Oberherr said:
Um, Abortion =/= exclusively religious view

True, but you'll find the largest and loudest opponents to be those speaking because of their religion.

Oberherr said:
You do realize those evil Christian organization use it to feed the starved? And that's what MANY Christian organizations do?

In exchange for conversion or consent to living under Christian doctrine. It's not charity if it's conditional.

Oberherr said:
Um, we're not, and our "last years?"
Hah. Yeah, cool story bro, we're not going anywhere. And you sir, are using the hateful belligerent tactics.

We'll see. Oh and yes, I am -so- hateful. How dare I value the discrimination of untaxed unelected unqualified and ultimately unimportant church leaders as being despicable.

@ScottyDouglas: Die, troll.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
1dustpelt
Posts: 1,970
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5/20/2012 5:35:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 5:33:11 PM, Veridas wrote:
1dustpelt said:
You don't. Why do you need to cope?

I don't. That's sort of the point.

1dustpelt said:
You don't. Why do you need to cope? People make their own decisions.

I really don't think a statement like that applies to modern religion.

1dustpelt said:
1. I support the separation of Church and state
2. I do not have homophobia
3. I support stem cell research
4. I don't know what you are talking about in the last part because I believe science and knowledge is a just cause.
5. Abortion is not a religious issue, there are many atheists opposed to abortion.
6. The Church helps those people who re starving to death.

I would question whether or not your church supports these things. Oh, and offering charity to people is all good and well, except when you do so conditionally.
Most people in my Church do. However there are some extreme fundamentalists.

1dustpelt said:
1. I have not been spending my last years hating
2. I have been using nonthreatening and beneficial tactics

You, perhaps. However, again, does your church?
Yes
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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5/20/2012 7:56:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 11:21:36 AM, Veridas wrote:
How do you emotionally cope with the idea that your religion is losing influence in the world?

You think so?

That's interesting. How did you come to that conclusion?

Humans are just as superstitious as they always were. Unless we completely redirect global society, there will always be something that humans are expected to dogmatically follow despite its logical basis, whether it's Christianity, Islam, Capitalism, Political designations, or any of the several other cultural distinctions we use to define ourselves.

Without such distinctions, it's impossible to assert authority by unspoken standards, which makes bureaucracy impossible, thus dissolving the balance of power in the world.

So, you're right, history will deride us.

But, they will probably deride those holier-than-thou armchair social critics that are every bit as guilty of perpetuating the system much worse than everyone else.
LibertyCampbell
Posts: 288
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5/20/2012 8:45:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/20/2012 4:47:36 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 5/20/2012 4:12:09 PM, LibertyCampbell wrote:
Who believes in magic? God isn't casting fireballs at us.

For someone who believes God wished the universe into existence,

At least with magic you have a magician. If there is no God, you just have things (the universe) coming into existence. I believe WLC made this observation.

made a man out of dirt and a women out of a rib, had followers who could summon food from the sky, birthed a son without the use of sex who could walk on water and will water into wine and fly up into the sky, I find it difficult to believe you don't worry that your beliefs could be construed as belief in magic.

Who said I believe any of this? And how does this qualify as magic in the sense you are pertaining it to? You are just using words to make the idea of my religion being right laughable, making you even more concreted in your beliefs. It's a close minded comparison.

Hadoukens really wouldn't be out of place in the Bible.

Have you read it? In what situation would a Hadouken be out of place? (+1 for SF)
"[Society] has no vested interest in continuing to exist." -RP
LibertyCampbell
Posts: 288
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5/20/2012 8:48:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
And its not like the fewer people believe in God the more He disappears. To an atheist it might seem tragic that a belief system is evaporating (which is far from demonstrable), but to us it's just a sign, forgive me for the cliche, that the end is nigh, or whatever you want to believe.

I think there will be another awakening after the debt bomb explodes.
"[Society] has no vested interest in continuing to exist." -RP