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homosexuality and religion

xenocard
Posts: 2
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8/8/2009 8:25:45 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
first let me say something, i was born in a Muslim country and raised that way, and came to realize that same sex gender (gay or whatever they call it) exists

so this Debate will be against Muslims and any other religion that bans gay people or think they are some kind of Aliens

- why do some or ALL religions say or think gay people should be killed, we were created just like any other breathing person that way

- gay people are doctors, captains, engineers, teachers in every country from every religion they are in all high places, what is the point in ignoring the subject when i am sure that the very same people who still wont see gay people as normal humans also have siblings who want same sex marriage, be it man or women, it is just a gender matter,

where is the sin in loving another man, or women loving a women (i dare any to argue)

go ask god why he made it that way oh wait, he didn't say, he remembered all the tiny details like don't have sex with women if you are not married or rape, don't drink beer, don't sing, don't draw, don't ..don't, don't... you get the point

this may be a small fry compared to the corrupt happenings in the world right now but it is not so small to ignore anymore

i would believe in religion if those people had rights, but this has giving me reason to doubt the authenticity of religion and the system it works on

happy debate
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/8/2009 2:49:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Homosexuality, like any sin, is a CHOICE.
There may be cultural factors at work but it is STILL a choice.
Many people have been delivered from it by the saving Grace of Jesus Christ.
The Cross.. the Cross.
bearsfan
Posts: 102
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8/8/2009 7:01:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
This is a debate site. Debate in a debate and not in the forums.
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Lifeisgood
Posts: 295
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8/8/2009 7:34:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/8/2009 7:01:25 PM, bearsfan wrote:
This is a debate site. Debate in a debate and not in the forums.

There is nothing wrong with debating in the forums, at least as far as I know. It is actually quite useful when you want short, rapid responses.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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8/8/2009 7:38:14 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/8/2009 7:01:25 PM, bearsfan wrote:
This is a debate site. Debate in a debate and not in the forums.

We debate in the forums all of the time.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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8/8/2009 9:24:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/8/2009 8:02:32 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Homosexuality is a choice.

I remember when I chose to be heterosexual. It was a Tuesday, I think =)
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patsox834
Posts: 406
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8/8/2009 10:04:57 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/8/2009 9:24:03 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 8/8/2009 8:02:32 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Homosexuality is a choice.

I remember when I chose to be heterosexual. It was a Tuesday, I think =)

See, with me, I just kinda woke up one morning, and went "you know, I think I'd rather be straight."
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
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8/9/2009 1:16:22 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Everyone I know grew up straight and later chose to become gay I never once known anybody who grew up gay and decided to become straight.
I win ;D
patsox834
Posts: 406
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8/9/2009 1:22:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 1:16:22 AM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Everyone I know grew up straight and later chose to become gay I never once known anybody who grew up gay and decided to become straight.

...or it could be that they were gay all along, but acted straight in an attempt to seem more "normal?"

Most people are all about acceptance, and since homosexuality isn't typically popular, especially among younger crowds, I'd say it's rather feasible that gay people often masquerade as straight people so their chances of being accepted are higher.
tribefan011
Posts: 106
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8/9/2009 2:46:35 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 1:16:22 AM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Everyone I know grew up straight and later chose to become gay I never once known anybody who grew up gay and decided to become straight.

Is there any specific reason you only associate yourself with people who grow up straight and choose to be gay? Might you be gay? Are they straight until you convince them to be gay? Sorry if the questions are personal, but I don't understand how everyone you know could grow up straight and later choose to be gay.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/9/2009 6:08:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 2:46:35 AM, tribefan011 wrote:
Is there any specific reason you only associate yourself with people who grow up straight and choose to be gay? Might you be gay? Are they straight until you convince them to be gay? Sorry if the questions are personal, but I don't understand how everyone you know could grow up straight and later choose to be gay.

He can't, because he isn't those people he knew.

Just because you grew up with them when they were "straight," doesn't necessarily mean they were never inclined to be homosexual, or have homosexual feelings. Always remember that it takes acceptance from others (something that, from Keith's comments at least, they didn't seem to get a lot of) before any individual can start feeling comfortable with what they feel, and are able to show that openly. Also, puberty, as with a straight male, would be an important factor before you would notice a friend of yours liking guys instead of gals.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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8/9/2009 8:57:50 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 1:16:22 AM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Everyone I know grew up straight and later chose to become gay I never once known anybody who grew up gay and decided to become straight.

That's funny, because all of the homosexuals I know are precisely the opposite. Excuse me if I don't accept your limited experience in the matter.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/9/2009 10:56:33 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I obviously had no sexuality until I was interviewed, filled out the forms and paid the administration costs.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
USAPitBull63
Posts: 668
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8/9/2009 11:06:00 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
I won't account for everybody or nobody, but there is at least one famous gay person who maintains her homsexuality was/is a choice, not something with which she was born:

http://sports.espn.go.com...

Here is a follow-up story from ESPN.com, where the writer tries to circumnavigate Swoopes's own words with semantics (pretty poorly). And, as usual, the media figure praises Swoopes and hopes this bravery will "open a door" for more pro athletes to do the same, as if its any of our business:

http://sports.espn.go.com...

So long as there is one gay person who says it's a choice, there is debate. I'll take Sheryl's words for it; not many who want to interpret her own thoughts for her.
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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8/9/2009 4:34:49 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 1:28:50 AM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Nobody is born gay.

Then by whatever reasoning you're employing, you must accept that nobody is born straight either.

If sexual orientation is a choice, I have to ask you - when did you decide to be straight?
redinferno
Posts: 7
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8/9/2009 7:09:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/8/2009 8:25:45 AM, xenocard wrote:
first let me say something, i was born in a Muslim country and raised that way, and came to realize that same sex gender (gay or whatever they call it) exists

so this Debate will be against Muslims and any other religion that bans gay people or think they are some kind of Aliens

- why do some or ALL religions say or think gay people should be killed, we were created just like any other breathing person that way

- gay people are doctors, captains, engineers, teachers in every country from every religion they are in all high places, what is the point in ignoring the subject when i am sure that the very same people who still wont see gay people as normal humans also have siblings who want same sex marriage, be it man or women, it is just a gender matter,

where is the sin in loving another man, or women loving a women (i dare any to argue)

go ask god why he made it that way oh wait, he didn't say, he remembered all the tiny details like don't have sex with women if you are not married or rape, don't drink beer, don't sing, don't draw, don't ..don't, don't... you get the point

this may be a small fry compared to the corrupt happenings in the world right now but it is not so small to ignore anymore

i would believe in religion if those people had rights, but this has giving me reason to doubt the authenticity of religion and the system it works on

happy debate

Islam does not say that gays should be killed. It says that homosexual sex is a crime punishable by death. If a Muslim is gay then he should keep it a secret and never have homosexual sex.
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
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8/9/2009 9:59:42 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 4:34:49 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 8/9/2009 1:28:50 AM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Nobody is born gay.

Then by whatever reasoning you're employing, you must accept that nobody is born straight either.

If sexual orientation is a choice, I have to ask you - when did you decide to be straight?

I believe that people are born straight. You cannot prove one way over the other it is useless to argue this. It all comes down to ideals.
I win ;D
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
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8/9/2009 10:06:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 2:46:35 AM, tribefan011 wrote:
At 8/9/2009 1:16:22 AM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Everyone I know grew up straight and later chose to become gay I never once known anybody who grew up gay and decided to become straight.

Is there any specific reason you only associate yourself with people who grow up straight and choose to be gay? Might you be gay? Are they straight until you convince them to be gay? Sorry if the questions are personal, but I don't understand how everyone you know could grow up straight and later choose to be gay.

You are incredibly arrogant. Everyone else knew what I meant.
I win ;D
patsox834
Posts: 406
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8/10/2009 7:58:50 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 9:59:42 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/9/2009 4:34:49 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 8/9/2009 1:28:50 AM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Nobody is born gay.

Then by whatever reasoning you're employing, you must accept that nobody is born straight either.

If sexual orientation is a choice, I have to ask you - when did you decide to be straight?

I believe that people are born straight. You cannot prove one way over the other it is useless to argue this. It all comes down to ideals.

http://general-medicine.jwatch.org...

http://www.cs.cmu.edu...

http://findarticles.com...
JustCallMeTarzan
Posts: 1,922
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8/10/2009 8:42:34 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 9:59:42 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/9/2009 4:34:49 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 8/9/2009 1:28:50 AM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Nobody is born gay.

Then by whatever reasoning you're employing, you must accept that nobody is born straight either.

If sexual orientation is a choice, I have to ask you - when did you decide to be straight?

I believe that people are born straight. You cannot prove one way over the other it is useless to argue this. It all comes down to ideals.

Unfortunately, you're simply wrong. On two accounts.

First, as someone below pointed out, Homosexuality has been found to have a genetic component both in lab tests on animals and in actual studies on humans. People are born with a certain sexual orientation - it's coded just like any other gene. Some people have brown eyes, some people have green. Some people are straight, some people are gay.

Second, you put forth the notion that one's sexual orientation could be chosen. If you believe that sexual orientation is a choice, then you have to be consistent with that position. So I ask again - when did you choose to be straight?? It's a pretty simple question - either answer it or revise your position.

Nobody's "ideals" have anything to do with the question. Whether or not people are born gay is a question that can be answered by science. What you believe about it is completely irrelevant.
haley.debate20
Posts: 37
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8/10/2009 9:00:52 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/8/2009 7:01:25 PM, bearsfan wrote:
This is a debate site. Debate in a debate and not in the forums.

It's suppose to be for more than one person. That's the reason (I'm guessing). More of an opinion forum.
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent."
haley.debate20
Posts: 37
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8/10/2009 9:09:04 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Look, people are who they are. Nobody should judge them just because they don't believe in their ways. If someone wants to love another human the same sex, so be it. It shouldn't matter. When I was growing up my parents use to tell me everyday, "Be who you want to be, and don't worry about what others think." So if you aren't a homosexual then leave it at that. And if you are, great. :) Just because that isn't the lifestyle you believe is just, doesn't mean you should go around says they should die. Who cares if the bible says it's not okay? NOT EVERYBODY BELIEVES IN THE BIBLE. But if you want to travel down this path, fine. The bible says once you are married, you are together basically forever. Until death do you part. And you know what? People still get divorced.

Something a dear friend pointed out to me is everyday homosexuals are frowned upon and get crap for who they choose to love. The fact that they still choose to love them even though society doesn't believe they should, means a lot. They are that willing to stand up for what they believe in, even if it means they are the victim of a hate crime.
For those of you who are homosexual, I strongly back your decisions. :) Even if that isn't for me.
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent."
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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8/10/2009 9:55:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/10/2009 8:42:34 AM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 8/9/2009 9:59:42 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/9/2009 4:34:49 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 8/9/2009 1:28:50 AM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Nobody is born gay.

Then by whatever reasoning you're employing, you must accept that nobody is born straight either.

If sexual orientation is a choice, I have to ask you - when did you decide to be straight?

I believe that people are born straight. You cannot prove one way over the other it is useless to argue this. It all comes down to ideals.

Unfortunately, you're simply wrong. On two accounts.

First, as someone below pointed out, Homosexuality has been found to have a genetic component both in lab tests on animals and in actual studies on humans. People are born with a certain sexual orientation - it's coded just like any other gene. Some people have brown eyes, some people have green. Some people are straight, some people are gay.

Second, you put forth the notion that one's sexual orientation could be chosen. If you believe that sexual orientation is a choice, then you have to be consistent with that position. So I ask again - when did you choose to be straight?? It's a pretty simple question - either answer it or revise your position.

Nobody's "ideals" have anything to do with the question. Whether or not people are born gay is a question that can be answered by science. What you believe about it is completely irrelevant.

Agreed, but in addition, I think that homosexuality is far more complicated than that. I don't have any hard evidence, but I think that there is an environmental component that works in conjunction with the genetic code.

Simply put, people who have the "gay" gene require additional environmental stimulus in order for it to manifest.

People who do not have the "gay" gene, cannot manifest it unless by way of severe psychological disorder.
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Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/10/2009 10:25:13 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/10/2009 9:55:11 AM, Kleptin wrote:
Agreed, but in addition, I think that homosexuality is far more complicated than that. I don't have any hard evidence, but I think that there is an environmental component that works in conjunction with the genetic code.

Simply put, people who have the "gay" gene require additional environmental stimulus in order for it to manifest.

People who do not have the "gay" gene, cannot manifest it unless by way of severe psychological disorder.

I agree with this position, though I would ask you to explain how "by way of severe psychological disorder" someone can be homosexual? Can they not be homosexual based on environment and experience, without the "gay gene" being present?
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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8/10/2009 10:42:22 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/8/2009 8:25:45 AM, xenocard wrote:
- why do some or ALL religions say or think gay people should be killed, we were created just like any other breathing person that way

Because organized religion is all about making people to stop individually in order to control them so you can use and abuse them. And the strongest force to control is sexuality. Therefore, a religion wants to control peoples sexuality. And since it's about control and submission, individuality is looked down on. People are required to behave the same. Therefore, homosexuality, as it's unusual, is an example of individuality, and must be suppressed.
So prove me wrong, then.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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8/10/2009 10:43:34 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/9/2009 1:28:50 AM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
Nobody is born gay.

Every gay person I have ever met was born gay.
So prove me wrong, then.