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Thinking Can Undermine Religious Faith, Study

Wallstreetatheist
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5/21/2012 9:51:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Those who think more analytically are less inclined to be religious believers than are those who tend to follow a gut instinct, researchers conclude.

Scientific interest in the cognitive underpinnings of religious belief has grown in recent years. However, to date, little experimental research has focused on the cognitive processes that may promote religious disbelief. The present studies apply a dual-process model of cognitive processing to this problem, testing the hypothesis that analytic processing promotes religious disbelief. Individual differences in the tendency to analytically override initially flawed intuitions in reasoning were associated with increased religious disbelief. Four additional experiments provided evidence of causation, as subtle manipulations known to trigger analytic processing also encouraged religious disbelief. Combined, these studies indicate that analytic processing is one factor (presumably among several) that promotes religious disbelief. Although these findings do not speak directly to conversations about the inherent rationality, value, or truth of religious beliefs, they illuminate one cognitive factor that may influence such discussions.

Study: [http://www2.psych.ubc.ca...]
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phantom
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5/21/2012 10:22:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think skeptics or more drawn to the default position, which in this case is atheism or agnosticism.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Wallstreetatheist
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5/21/2012 10:35:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 10:22:37 PM, phantom wrote:
I think skeptics or more drawn to the default position, which in this case is atheism or agnosticism.

What other factors do you think lead to religious skepticism?
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phantom
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5/21/2012 10:52:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 10:35:00 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/21/2012 10:22:37 PM, phantom wrote:
I think skeptics are more drawn to the default position, which in this case is atheism or agnosticism.

What other factors do you think lead to religious skepticism?

Well I was more saying those who would be considered skeptics are drawn more to atheism/agnosticism because of the default factor. As a very skeptical person I've experienced that myself, though I still remain theist. I don't know what other factors would entail this. There could be many. But there are plenty of theist/atheist skeptics alike. I just think skeptics are more likely to be atheist than theist. It's harder to hold on to beliefs when you're a skeptical person. The belief in God especially is a tough one when you possess a mind ready to challenge all beliefs.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Zaradi
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5/21/2012 10:59:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As much as I hate conceding to being ignorant, this is just true. I'm a walking example of this.

I used to be hardcore Christian. Then I went into debate, and debate taught me to think and to question. Now, I'm not even near being a Christian anymore. It's a result of me learning to question things that I find odd instead of taking them as fact without trial.
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johnnyboy54
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5/22/2012 12:11:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 10:59:38 PM, Zaradi wrote:
As much as I hate conceding to being ignorant, this is just true. I'm a walking example of this.

I used to be hardcore Christian. Then I went into debate, and debate taught me to think and to question. Now, I'm not even near being a Christian anymore. It's a result of me learning to question things that I find odd instead of taking them as fact without trial.

I think the problem is that everyone accepts what their parents tell them rather than think things through for themselves.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
tyler90az
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5/22/2012 12:31:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think a majority of atheists are followers of the crowd. It is more common and
"in" to be an atheist then a theist. If people truly think about the benefits of spirituality and the truth of God they would be theists. That is why, in my humble opinion, it is a paradox to say the more analytical you are the less likely you are to be a theist. It is clear that people wear being an atheist as a badge of honor. To the atheists I am speaking of, I challenge you to think analytically regarding God and spirituality.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
Illegalcombatant
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5/22/2012 3:56:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 10:59:38 PM, Zaradi wrote:
As much as I hate conceding to being ignorant, this is just true. I'm a walking example of this.

I used to be hardcore Christian. Then I went into debate, and debate taught me to think and to question. Now, I'm not even near being a Christian anymore. It's a result of me learning to question things that I find odd instead of taking them as fact without trial.

This my brothers and sisters in Christ is why we need to keep our kids away from secular college and books. We go to all this trouble to indoctrinate them, then they start questioning those things, and with questions you need responses, and then they question those responses and well.........its all down hill from there.

Reason is the whore of satan, reason is man saying to God I know better, just believe in Jesus and shut the hell up.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Stephen_Hawkins
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5/22/2012 4:42:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 3:56:32 AM, Illegalcombatant wrote:
At 5/21/2012 10:59:38 PM, Zaradi wrote:
As much as I hate conceding to being ignorant, this is just true. I'm a walking example of this.

I used to be hardcore Christian. Then I went into debate, and debate taught me to think and to question. Now, I'm not even near being a Christian anymore. It's a result of me learning to question things that I find odd instead of taking them as fact without trial.

This my brothers and sisters in Christ is why we need to keep our kids away from secular college and books. We go to all this trouble to indoctrinate them, then they start questioning those things, and with questions you need responses, and then they question those responses and well.........its all down hill from there.

Reason is the whore of satan, reason is man saying to God I know better, just believe in Jesus and shut the hell up.

Sarcasm? Usually helps to make it clear, because this is the jesuit stance.
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stubs
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5/22/2012 6:19:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think in these studies it is quite obvious that is what you will find. Think about where a lot of Christians are. A lot of inner city kids in a bad education system are just brought up in the faith and they are Christian. Obviously this is not the case for all Christians, but it has a big influence and I think that is why we would expect the results that they got.
cbrhawk1
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5/22/2012 7:08:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 9:51:30 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Those who think more analytically are less inclined to be religious believers than are those who tend to follow a gut instinct, researchers conclude.

Scientific interest in the cognitive underpinnings of religious belief has grown in recent years. However, to date, little experimental research has focused on the cognitive processes that may promote religious disbelief. The present studies apply a dual-process model of cognitive processing to this problem, testing the hypothesis that analytic processing promotes religious disbelief. Individual differences in the tendency to analytically override initially flawed intuitions in reasoning were associated with increased religious disbelief. Four additional experiments provided evidence of causation, as subtle manipulations known to trigger analytic processing also encouraged religious disbelief. Combined, these studies indicate that analytic processing is one factor (presumably among several) that promotes religious disbelief. Although these findings do not speak directly to conversations about the inherent rationality, value, or truth of religious beliefs, they illuminate one cognitive factor that may influence such discussions.

Study: [http://www2.psych.ubc.ca...]

Thinking, as opposed to ... not thinking?

Is that even possible?

To say that humans don't analyze situations is foolish.

The problems with this article are the same problems with a lot of statistics.

As far as the source goes, big time problems:
The person gauges the level of belief in God as a numeric score, putting his own subjective weighted values in each of the categories, and assuming they are of equal importance to religious thinking.

The writer of the article seems to have used written and verbal tests to find analytical thinking. Unfortunately, doing this involves a language bias that is commonly problematic for testing. That is especially true because

We also do not know the size of the samples used, only vaguely the kind of people they contained. It leads me to believe the sample sizes were relatively tiny. Not to mention, the sample is far from a random worldwide sample.

Since the United States and Canada are mostly Christian, they look at one very specific group of people. That is, people onine who were willing to participate in their survey. That, in itself, is a huge bias because it's a very specifi part of the population.

What about those who did not want to take part in the test? What about the ones outside of those they decided to test? Did they test all that applied? Or, did they select the population to test? Why are specifics on the age groups, locations, and incomes not given? Also, which religions are included/discluded? What about religions that do not accept a God, but are still considered religions?

This article has too many holes to even be considered remotely credible IMO, unless some of the source's source materia contains specifics.

But, I have a feeling that's an incredible waste of time because, to assume to be able to use statistics to describe mental and analytical capacity, something that is not a one dimensional property, but multi-dimensional, is a fruitless task and is just another attempt at disguised mudslinging by atheists.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
royalpaladin
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5/22/2012 7:11:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 12:31:56 AM, tyler90az wrote:
I think a majority of atheists are followers of the crowd. It is more common and
"in" to be an atheist then a theist.
This is simply not true. The number of theists in the United States vastly outnumbers the number of Atheists. In fact, Atheists are the least trusted people in the country. People trust Muslims more than they trust Atheists.
If people truly think about the benefits of spirituality and the truth of God they would be theists. That is why, in my humble opinion, it is a paradox to say the more analytical you are the less likely you are to be a theist.
I mean, that's what the evidence is showing. Moreover, educated people tend to not be theists . . .
It is clear that people wear being an atheist as a badge of honor. To the atheists I am speaking of, I challenge you to think analytically regarding God and spirituality.
twocupcakes
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5/22/2012 9:16:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 12:31:56 AM, tyler90az wrote:
I think a majority of atheists are followers of the crowd. It is more common and
"in" to be an atheist then a theist. If people truly think about the benefits of spirituality and the truth of God they would be theists. That is why, in my humble opinion, it is a paradox to say the more analytical you are the less likely you are to be a theist. It is clear that people wear being an atheist as a badge of honor. To the atheists I am speaking of, I challenge you to think analytically regarding God and spirituality.

According to a 2004 BBC pole only 9% of the people in the USA are atheists. http://news.bbc.co.uk...

So, they don't really do it to be "in". Unless by "in" you mean "in the minority". Also, people can't really choose whether to believe in God, they either believe it or they don't. One cannot force themselves to believe something they find ridiculous.
DATCMOTO
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5/22/2012 10:11:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/21/2012 9:51:30 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Those who think more analytically are less inclined to be religious believers than are those who tend to follow a gut instinct, researchers conclude.

Scientific interest in the cognitive underpinnings of religious belief has grown in recent years. However, to date, little experimental research has focused on the cognitive processes that may promote religious disbelief. The present studies apply a dual-process model of cognitive processing to this problem, testing the hypothesis that analytic processing promotes religious disbelief. Individual differences in the tendency to analytically override initially flawed intuitions in reasoning were associated with increased religious disbelief. Four additional experiments provided evidence of causation, as subtle manipulations known to trigger analytic processing also encouraged religious disbelief. Combined, these studies indicate that analytic processing is one factor (presumably among several) that promotes religious disbelief. Although these findings do not speak directly to conversations about the inherent rationality, value, or truth of religious beliefs, they illuminate one cognitive factor that may influence such discussions.

Study: [http://www2.psych.ubc.ca...]

The cul-de-sac of intellectualism will of course hinder ones spiritual progress, just as emotionalism is a dead end.

It is our decisions, our yes or no, that is spiritual.
The Cross.. the Cross.
tyler90az
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5/22/2012 10:17:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 7:11:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/22/2012 12:31:56 AM, tyler90az wrote:
I think a majority of atheists are followers of the crowd. It is more common and
"in" to be an atheist then a theist.
This is simply not true. The number of theists in the United States vastly outnumbers the number of Atheists. In fact, Atheists are the least trusted people in the country. People trust Muslims more than they trust Atheists.

What is the growing trend though? Atheism.

If people truly think about the benefits of spirituality and the truth of God they would be theists. That is why, in my humble opinion, it is a paradox to say the more analytical you are the less likely you are to be a theist.
I mean, that's what the evidence is showing. Moreover, educated people tend to not be theists . . .

Exactly my point, you wear atheism as a badge of honor. You say that educated people tend to be atheists. The interesting thing about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that the more educated you are the more active in the church you are.

It is clear that people wear being an atheist as a badge of honor. To the atheists I am speaking of, I challenge you to think analytically regarding God and spirituality.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tyler90az
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5/22/2012 10:19:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 9:16:11 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 5/22/2012 12:31:56 AM, tyler90az wrote:
I think a majority of atheists are followers of the crowd. It is more common and
"in" to be an atheist then a theist. If people truly think about the benefits of spirituality and the truth of God they would be theists. That is why, in my humble opinion, it is a paradox to say the more analytical you are the less likely you are to be a theist. It is clear that people wear being an atheist as a badge of honor. To the atheists I am speaking of, I challenge you to think analytically regarding God and spirituality.


According to a 2004 BBC pole only 9% of the people in the USA are atheists. http://news.bbc.co.uk...

So, they don't really do it to be "in". Unless by "in" you mean "in the minority". Also, people can't really choose whether to believe in God, they either believe it or they don't. One cannot force themselves to believe something they find ridiculous.

It is sad but intelligent people do seem to clamor to atheism so they will be "in." Atheists also seem to think they are smart just because they are atheists. That is what I mean by they want to be "in."
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
royalpaladin
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5/22/2012 10:21:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 10:17:49 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/22/2012 7:11:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/22/2012 12:31:56 AM, tyler90az wrote:
I think a majority of atheists are followers of the crowd. It is more common and
"in" to be an atheist then a theist.
This is simply not true. The number of theists in the United States vastly outnumbers the number of Atheists. In fact, Atheists are the least trusted people in the country. People trust Muslims more than they trust Atheists.

What is the growing trend though? Atheism.

On a global scale, Christianity, Islam, and Sikhism are growing more quickly than Atheism is. In the United States, Atheism is probably growing more quickly. That doesn't mean that it is popular, however. As I stated before, Atheists are trusted less in the U.S. than Muslims are.
If people truly think about the benefits of spirituality and the truth of God they would be theists. That is why, in my humble opinion, it is a paradox to say the more analytical you are the less likely you are to be a theist.
I mean, that's what the evidence is showing. Moreover, educated people tend to not be theists . . .

Exactly my point, you wear atheism as a badge of honor. You say that educated people tend to be atheists.
That's because it is true.
The interesting thing about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that the more educated you are the more active in the church you are.

I don't know anything about this, so I will have to take your word for it. However, as a whole, the educated are less likely to be theists.
It is clear that people wear being an atheist as a badge of honor. To the atheists I am speaking of, I challenge you to think analytically regarding God and spirituality.
royalpaladin
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5/22/2012 10:23:04 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 10:19:56 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/22/2012 9:16:11 AM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 5/22/2012 12:31:56 AM, tyler90az wrote:
I think a majority of atheists are followers of the crowd. It is more common and
"in" to be an atheist then a theist. If people truly think about the benefits of spirituality and the truth of God they would be theists. That is why, in my humble opinion, it is a paradox to say the more analytical you are the less likely you are to be a theist. It is clear that people wear being an atheist as a badge of honor. To the atheists I am speaking of, I challenge you to think analytically regarding God and spirituality.


According to a 2004 BBC pole only 9% of the people in the USA are atheists. http://news.bbc.co.uk...

So, they don't really do it to be "in". Unless by "in" you mean "in the minority". Also, people can't really choose whether to believe in God, they either believe it or they don't. One cannot force themselves to believe something they find ridiculous.

It is sad but intelligent people do seem to clamor to atheism so they will be "in." Atheists also seem to think they are smart just because they are atheists. That is what I mean by they want to be "in."

Explain to me how being part of the least trusted group in the United States makes me feel "in". I am not an Atheist because I want to be popular, trust me. I also doubt many Atheists are Atheist because they want to feel intelligent. The fact of the matter is that more intelligent people are likely to be Atheist.
tyler90az
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5/22/2012 10:27:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Explain to me how being part of the least trusted group in the United States makes me feel "in". I am not an Atheist because I want to be popular, trust me. I also doubt many Atheists are Atheist because they want to feel intelligent. The fact of the matter is that more intelligent people are likely to be Atheist.

You said in a previous post that the more educated you are the more likely you are to be an atheist. Therefore, if you want to feel "in" with the educated crowd you would want to be atheist.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
royalpaladin
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5/22/2012 10:32:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 10:27:30 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Explain to me how being part of the least trusted group in the United States makes me feel "in". I am not an Atheist because I want to be popular, trust me. I also doubt many Atheists are Atheist because they want to feel intelligent. The fact of the matter is that more intelligent people are likely to be Atheist.

You said in a previous post that the more educated you are the more likely you are to be an atheist.
Yes, and that is an empirical fact.
Therefore, if you want to feel "in" with the educated crowd you would want to be atheist.
I think that you are assuming that being Atheist makes you fit in with the educated crowd. It does not because the educated crowd is more likely to focus on things besides religion.
drafterman
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5/22/2012 10:43:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 10:27:30 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Explain to me how being part of the least trusted group in the United States makes me feel "in". I am not an Atheist because I want to be popular, trust me. I also doubt many Atheists are Atheist because they want to feel intelligent. The fact of the matter is that more intelligent people are likely to be Atheist.

You said in a previous post that the more educated you are the more likely you are to be an atheist. Therefore, if you want to feel "in" with the educated crowd you would want to be atheist.

No. If you want to feel "in" with the educated crowed you would want to be...

...

Wait for it...

...

Educated!

And a consequence of being educated is, commonly, converting to atheism. Atheism is a side-effect, not the goal.

Your statement is a bit like saying people get tattoos in order to feel "in" with biker gangs as opposed to, say, actually buying a bike and riding.
Wallstreetatheist
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5/22/2012 11:14:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
One thing I want to clear up:
there is nothing that prevents an atheist from having a spiritual experience, from feeling awe, from meditation. Theism does not hold a monopoly over spiritual experience; one doesn't have to believe a guy was born of a virgin to tap into the intense feelings of human experience and consciousness.
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tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/22/2012 11:16:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 10:43:16 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/22/2012 10:27:30 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Explain to me how being part of the least trusted group in the United States makes me feel "in". I am not an Atheist because I want to be popular, trust me. I also doubt many Atheists are Atheist because they want to feel intelligent. The fact of the matter is that more intelligent people are likely to be Atheist.

You said in a previous post that the more educated you are the more likely you are to be an atheist. Therefore, if you want to feel "in" with the educated crowd you would want to be atheist.

No. If you want to feel "in" with the educated crowed you would want to be...

...

Wait for it...

...

Educated!

And a consequence of being educated is, commonly, converting to atheism. Atheism is a side-effect, not the goal.

Your statement is a bit like saying people get tattoos in order to feel "in" with biker gangs as opposed to, say, actually buying a bike and riding.

That is exactly what I am saying. My point is that more people become atheists just because that is what educated people do. Another example would be exactly what you said people get tattoos when they join a biker gang. They don't do it because they think it through analytically. They do it, in this case become atheist, because they want to fit in. It is occurring more and more frequently among the young. A basic lie is being told, although interpreted wrong, that if you follow religion you are not educated or smart.

I stand by my assertion, it takes more courage to say you follow God, then to say you don't believe in God.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/22/2012 11:23:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 11:16:55 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/22/2012 10:43:16 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/22/2012 10:27:30 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Explain to me how being part of the least trusted group in the United States makes me feel "in". I am not an Atheist because I want to be popular, trust me. I also doubt many Atheists are Atheist because they want to feel intelligent. The fact of the matter is that more intelligent people are likely to be Atheist.

You said in a previous post that the more educated you are the more likely you are to be an atheist. Therefore, if you want to feel "in" with the educated crowd you would want to be atheist.

No. If you want to feel "in" with the educated crowed you would want to be...

...

Wait for it...

...

Educated!

And a consequence of being educated is, commonly, converting to atheism. Atheism is a side-effect, not the goal.

Your statement is a bit like saying people get tattoos in order to feel "in" with biker gangs as opposed to, say, actually buying a bike and riding.

That is exactly what I am saying. My point is that more people become atheists just because that is what educated people do. Another example would be exactly what you said people get tattoos when they join a biker gang. They don't do it because they think it through analytically. They do it, in this case become atheist, because they want to fit in. It is occurring more and more frequently among the young. A basic lie is being told, although interpreted wrong, that if you follow religion you are not educated or smart.

This is a strawman of the position. Nobody is saying that following religion makes one unintelligent; I know several intelligent theists. We are simply saying that the educated are more likely to be Atheist.
I stand by my assertion, it takes more courage to say you follow God, then to say you don't believe in God.

This is so not true. Atheists are not trusted in society at all. Muslims are trusted more than Atheists are.
drafterman
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5/22/2012 11:30:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 11:16:55 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/22/2012 10:43:16 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/22/2012 10:27:30 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Explain to me how being part of the least trusted group in the United States makes me feel "in". I am not an Atheist because I want to be popular, trust me. I also doubt many Atheists are Atheist because they want to feel intelligent. The fact of the matter is that more intelligent people are likely to be Atheist.

You said in a previous post that the more educated you are the more likely you are to be an atheist. Therefore, if you want to feel "in" with the educated crowd you would want to be atheist.

No. If you want to feel "in" with the educated crowed you would want to be...

...

Wait for it...

...

Educated!

And a consequence of being educated is, commonly, converting to atheism. Atheism is a side-effect, not the goal.

Your statement is a bit like saying people get tattoos in order to feel "in" with biker gangs as opposed to, say, actually buying a bike and riding.

That is exactly what I am saying. My point is that more people become atheists just because that is what educated people do.

Except that's not what I'm saying. I'm directly contradicting that notion. So, you aren't saying what I'm saying unless you're conceding the original point.

Becoming an atheist isn't something people, educated or not, just "do."

Another example would be exactly what you said people get tattoos when they join a biker gang. They don't do it because they think it through analytically. They do it, in this case become atheist, because they want to fit in. It is occurring more and more frequently among the young. A basic lie is being told, although interpreted wrong, that if you follow religion you are not educated or smart.

You've completely missed the point. I'm not sure how I can explain it any better except to suggest you get a typical biker tattoo and see how will that makes you fit in.


I stand by my assertion, it takes more courage to say you follow God, then to say you don't believe in God.

No it doesn't. This is a lie perpetrated by Christians under the "persecuted majority" philosophy (along with no small amount of self-martyrdom) they tend to preach.
tkubok
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5/22/2012 11:44:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 11:16:55 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/22/2012 10:43:16 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/22/2012 10:27:30 AM, tyler90az wrote:
Explain to me how being part of the least trusted group in the United States makes me feel "in". I am not an Atheist because I want to be popular, trust me. I also doubt many Atheists are Atheist because they want to feel intelligent. The fact of the matter is that more intelligent people are likely to be Atheist.

You said in a previous post that the more educated you are the more likely you are to be an atheist. Therefore, if you want to feel "in" with the educated crowd you would want to be atheist.

No. If you want to feel "in" with the educated crowed you would want to be...

...

Wait for it...

...

Educated!

And a consequence of being educated is, commonly, converting to atheism. Atheism is a side-effect, not the goal.

Your statement is a bit like saying people get tattoos in order to feel "in" with biker gangs as opposed to, say, actually buying a bike and riding.

That is exactly what I am saying. My point is that more people become atheists just because that is what educated people do. Another example would be exactly what you said people get tattoos when they join a biker gang. They don't do it because they think it through analytically. They do it, in this case become atheist, because they want to fit in. It is occurring more and more frequently among the young. A basic lie is being told, although interpreted wrong, that if you follow religion you are not educated or smart.

I stand by my assertion, it takes more courage to say you follow God, then to say you don't believe in God.

How is any of this true? Atheists is the minority, we are lower even than the jewish community in numbers. How could someone possibly think of becoming atheist in order to fit in. There are more churches, more christian organizations, than there are atheist organizations.

How does it take courage to be in the majority. How does it take courage to be apart of the 70, 80% of the population. How.
tyler90az
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5/22/2012 11:55:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 12:31:56 AM, tyler90az wrote:
I think a majority of atheists are followers of the crowd. It is more common and
"in" to be an atheist then a theist. If people truly think about the benefits of spirituality and the truth of God they would be theists. That is why, in my humble opinion, it is a paradox to say the more analytical you are the less likely you are to be a theist. It is clear that people wear being an atheist as a badge of honor. To the atheists I am speaking of, I challenge you to think analytically regarding God and spirituality.

Let's start at the beginning...

My statement:
Atheists are followers of the crowd :
It is easier to be an atheist then a theist. The fact that atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America proves that. It is also clear from the way sin is almost admired that it is easier to be an atheist then a theist.

You can feel more "in" if your an atheist:
Since atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America by saying your an atheist your automatically "in" with the trend in society. Also the fact that people wrongly believe if your an atheist your smarter or more educated.

It is no more analytical to be atheist then a theist:

It again goes back to the fact that atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America. That makes it easier to just default to becoming atheist. You actually have to analytically think about why you want to be a theist.

People wear being an Atheist as a badge of honor:
People say that they are atheist just so they appear smarter or more educated.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/22/2012 11:56:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 11:55:11 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/22/2012 12:31:56 AM, tyler90az wrote:
I think a majority of atheists are followers of the crowd. It is more common and
"in" to be an atheist then a theist. If people truly think about the benefits of spirituality and the truth of God they would be theists. That is why, in my humble opinion, it is a paradox to say the more analytical you are the less likely you are to be a theist. It is clear that people wear being an atheist as a badge of honor. To the atheists I am speaking of, I challenge you to think analytically regarding God and spirituality.

Let's start at the beginning...

My statement:
Atheists are followers of the crowd :
It is easier to be an atheist then a theist. The fact that atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America proves that. It is also clear from the way sin is almost admired that it is easier to be an atheist then a theist.

You can feel more "in" if your an atheist:
Since atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America by saying your an atheist your automatically "in" with the trend in society. Also the fact that people wrongly believe if your an atheist your smarter or more educated.

It is no more analytical to be atheist then a theist:

It again goes back to the fact that atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America. That makes it easier to just default to becoming atheist. You actually have to analytically think about why you want to be a theist.

People wear being an Atheist as a badge of honor:
People say that they are atheist just so they appear smarter or more educated.

Spelling errors galore! lol
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/22/2012 12:54:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 11:55:11 AM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/22/2012 12:31:56 AM, tyler90az wrote:
I think a majority of atheists are followers of the crowd. It is more common and
"in" to be an atheist then a theist. If people truly think about the benefits of spirituality and the truth of God they would be theists. That is why, in my humble opinion, it is a paradox to say the more analytical you are the less likely you are to be a theist. It is clear that people wear being an atheist as a badge of honor. To the atheists I am speaking of, I challenge you to think analytically regarding God and spirituality.

Let's start at the beginning...

My statement:
Atheists are followers of the crowd :
It is easier to be an atheist then a theist. The fact that atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America proves that. It is also clear from the way sin is almost admired that it is easier to be an atheist then a theist.

The rate at which a philosophy grows is not an indication of how "easy" it is to adhere to it.


You can feel more "in" if your an atheist:
Since atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America by saying your an atheist your automatically "in" with the trend in society. Also the fact that people wrongly believe if your an atheist your smarter or more educated.

Feeling "in" means to feel part of some sort of collective identity. Atheistic organizations not withstanding, this is actually lacking among atheists in general since there is no overall, binding, doctrine which unites atheists under some cause. In contrast, religions necessarily have a collective identity, complete with dogma and goals.


It is no more analytical to be atheist then a theist:

It again goes back to the fact that atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America. That makes it easier to just default to becoming atheist. You actually have to analytically think about why you want to be a theist.

Completely and utterly false. Most people simply fall into being which ever religion is prdominant in the geographic area they grew up in, without critically analyzing it. "Fastest" growing is simply a reflection of the fact that we are such a small group that any amount of growth is, proportionately, significant. It's simply a trivial statistic, and NOT an indicate of how "easy" it is to be an atheist.


People wear being an Atheist as a badge of honor:
People say that they are atheist just so they appear smarter or more educated.

And people wear being a Christian as a badge of honor and will say they are a Christian just so they appear good and charitable.

So the fvck what?

The fact of the matter is, it is easiest to be a member of whichever beliefs are already predominate in the culture you are raised in. This is because, growing up, you have a natural tendacy to observe and mimic the behaviors of the people to whom you are most exposed. Almost everyone does this without thinking. The fact that it doesn't require thinking means that it is easiest done.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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5/22/2012 1:10:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/22/2012 11:55:11 AM, tyler90az wrote:

It is easier to be an atheist then a theist.

http://www.theblaze.com...
Wrong, atheists are less liked than gays and lesbans.

The fact that atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America proves that. It is also clear from the way sin is almost admired that it is easier to be an atheist then a theist.

Atheists make up 1.6% of the American population. What evidence is there that it is growing fast?
http://religions.pewforum.org...

You can feel more "in" if your an atheist:
Since atheism is the fastest growing belief system in America by saying your an atheist your automatically "in" with the trend in society. Also the fact that people wrongly believe if your an atheist your smarter or more educated.

Actually the smarter you are the less likely you are to believe in God.
http://media.gallup.com...