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The matrix aspect of design

Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
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5/25/2012 2:22:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
So.. We are living in our own "matrix", as you might call it. Everything operates on a certain wavelength, and our senses are tuned to perceive certain signals in order to download the information into our brain and interact with it. Everything that we interact with is only tangible insomuch as our sensory input is equipped to process the information. So, we are like computers, of a sort.

What part of this truth can you honestly stop and say that we were not created by intelligent intent? Everything about this points to design. It is evident by our own laws that we have come to find out to be true about the universe.

Everything that is created has a relative capacity that must be applied to it, due to the intent from which the creation was made. For instance, a seed needs the right conditions to grow into a plant, and the success of the growth is determined by the surroundings of which it was made. It needs requirements that are specific to its success in order to flourish. All matter needs an intent in order to be produced. From the right conditions, a seed can grow into a plant. However, a seed cannot grow into something more than a plant because of the limitations of intent that created it. Matter can only be created in a capacity that is relative to the conditions that created it.

If we apply this premise to the basis of the creation of the universe, we can clearly see that an intelligent intent was required in order to create a universe tantamount to a computer simulation, with creatures that are able to interact and produce. The matter of the universe has conditions that are directly relative dependent upon that which created it. Intelligence cannot come from intelligence.

To say that a computer- simulated world that can interact with itself in order to create is something other than intelligently crafted is nonsense.
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Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
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5/25/2012 2:26:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 2:22:45 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
So.. We are living in our own "matrix", as you might call it. Everything operates on a certain wavelength, and our senses are tuned to perceive certain signals in order to download the information into our brain and interact with it. Everything that we interact with is only tangible insomuch as our sensory input is equipped to process the information. So, we are like computers, of a sort.

What part of this truth can you honestly stop and say that we were not created by intelligent intent? Everything about this points to design. It is evident by our own laws that we have come to find out to be true about the universe.

Everything that is created has a relative capacity that must be applied to it, due to the intent from which the creation was made. For instance, a seed needs the right conditions to grow into a plant, and the success of the growth is determined by the surroundings of which it was made. It needs requirements that are specific to its success in order to flourish. All matter needs an intent in order to be produced. From the right conditions, a seed can grow into a plant. However, a seed cannot grow into something more than a plant because of the limitations of intent that created it. Matter can only be created in a capacity that is relative to the conditions that created it.

If we apply this premise to the basis of the creation of the universe, we can clearly see that an intelligent intent was required in order to create a universe tantamount to a computer simulation, with creatures that are able to interact and produce. The matter of the universe has conditions that are directly relative and dependent upon that which created it. Intelligence cannot come from non- intelligence.

To say that a computer- simulated world that can interact with itself in order to create is something other than intelligently crafted is nonsense.

gah :P
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ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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5/25/2012 2:36:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 2:22:45 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
So.. We are living in our own "matrix", as you might call it. Everything operates on a certain wavelength, and our senses are tuned to perceive certain signals in order to download the information into our brain and interact with it. Everything that we interact with is only tangible insomuch as our sensory input is equipped to process the information. So, we are like computers, of a sort.

What part of this truth can you honestly stop and say that we were not created by intelligent intent? Everything about this points to design. It is evident by our own laws that we have come to find out to be true about the universe.

Everything that is created has a relative capacity that must be applied to it, due to the intent from which the creation was made. For instance, a seed needs the right conditions to grow into a plant, and the success of the growth is determined by the surroundings of which it was made. It needs requirements that are specific to its success in order to flourish. All matter needs an intent in order to be produced. From the right conditions, a seed can grow into a plant. However, a seed cannot grow into something more than a plant because of the limitations of intent that created it. Matter can only be created in a capacity that is relative to the conditions that created it.

If we apply this premise to the basis of the creation of the universe, we can clearly see that an intelligent intent was required in order to create a universe tantamount to a computer simulation, with creatures that are able to interact and produce. The matter of the universe has conditions that are directly relative dependent upon that which created it. Intelligence cannot come from intelligence.

To say that a computer- simulated world that can interact with itself in order to create is something other than intelligently crafted is nonsense.

^Knows what He is talking about. Listen to him.
TheAsylum
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
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5/25/2012 12:39:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 2:36:44 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 5/25/2012 2:22:45 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
So.. We are living in our own "matrix", as you might call it. Everything operates on a certain wavelength, and our senses are tuned to perceive certain signals in order to download the information into our brain and interact with it. Everything that we interact with is only tangible insomuch as our sensory input is equipped to process the information. So, we are like computers, of a sort.

What part of this truth can you honestly stop and say that we were not created by intelligent intent? Everything about this points to design. It is evident by our own laws that we have come to find out to be true about the universe.

Everything that is created has a relative capacity that must be applied to it, due to the intent from which the creation was made. For instance, a seed needs the right conditions to grow into a plant, and the success of the growth is determined by the surroundings of which it was made. It needs requirements that are specific to its success in order to flourish. All matter needs an intent in order to be produced. From the right conditions, a seed can grow into a plant. However, a seed cannot grow into something more than a plant because of the limitations of intent that created it. Matter can only be created in a capacity that is relative to the conditions that created it.

If we apply this premise to the basis of the creation of the universe, we can clearly see that an intelligent intent was required in order to create a universe tantamount to a computer simulation, with creatures that are able to interact and produce. The matter of the universe has conditions that are directly relative dependent upon that which created it. Intelligence cannot come from intelligence.

To say that a computer- simulated world that can interact with itself in order to create is something other than intelligently crafted is nonsense.

^Knows what He is talking about. Listen to him.

lol. i don't know if you are referring to me or god but either way, right on?
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yoda878
Posts: 902
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5/25/2012 2:25:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I agree with you completely, I don't know how people can look at science and say, "hhmm... this proves no God, no higher mind, no creation."
Me
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
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5/25/2012 5:23:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 2:25:28 PM, yoda878 wrote:
I agree with you completely, I don't know how people can look at science and say, "hhmm... this proves no God, no higher mind, no creation."

Yeah.. I mean, people say they need evidence of god. The only basis we have to find supportive evidence is in the consistent laws of the universe. So, the laws of the universe can be prescribed to its creation to reach a logical conclusion. Something of intelligence must have derived from something of intelligence. It's simple, right..? any takers? :)
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Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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5/25/2012 6:30:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 2:22:45 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
So.. We are living in our own "matrix", as you might call it. Everything operates on a certain wavelength, and our senses are tuned to perceive certain signals in order to download the information into our brain and interact with it. Everything that we interact with is only tangible insomuch as our sensory input is equipped to process the information. So, we are like computers, of a sort.

You are fallaciously using analogous words and trying to gloss them over throughout this paragraph, in attempts to make humans sound like computers. Of course you are implying that if we are computers, then we are designed, because computers are designed. Even if we could be compared to a computer, a stars nuclear explosions could be compared to the explosions that take place in the engine of a car. This does't mean an intelligent beings in the cosmos are forming stars all the time in the universe (we know scientifically how stars form). So the point you are trying to make here, is extremely useless in actuality.


What part of this truth can you honestly stop and say that we were not created by intelligent intent? Everything about this points to design. It is evident by our own laws that we have come to find out to be true about the universe.

All you are doing is committing the bare assertion fallacy. It's not hard:

None of it points to intelligent design or intent, and it all points to a precarious natural system.


Everything that is created has a relative capacity that must be applied to it, due to the intent from which the creation was made. For instance, a seed needs the right conditions to grow into a plant, and the success of the growth is determined by the surroundings of which it was made. It needs requirements that are specific to its success in order to flourish. All matter needs an intent in order to be produced. From the right conditions, a seed can grow into a plant. However, a seed cannot grow into something more than a plant because of the limitations of intent that created it. Matter can only be created in a capacity that is relative to the conditions that created it.

This of course, is a serious case of question begging. How can you rule out nature producing intelligence and not vice versa?

If we apply this premise to the basis of the creation of the universe, we can clearly see that an intelligent intent was required in order to create a universe tantamount to a computer simulation, with creatures that are able to interact and produce. The matter of the universe has conditions that are directly relative dependent upon that which created it. Intelligence cannot come from intelligence.

If intelligence cannot come from intelligence, then your whole case crumbles (I'm going to assume it was a typo). Regardless, are confusing two concepts:

(i) An intelligence greater than us, created us (intelligent beings)

(ii) Something greater than intelligence, produced intelligence

I mean intelligence is useful for problem solving, maybe nature has no problems, and thus intelligence is meaningless when talking about the process that gave rise to us.

Also, you are forgetting a third option:

(iii) Something less than intelligence, produced intelliegence

I mean surely a few loose pebbles are less than a massive avalanche in greatness, but they can give rise to one. A stupid mother could have sex with a stupid man and produce a genius. There are simply plenty examples of things that are less in greatness than what they produce. Maybe nature is less great then us, but could still produce us.

You are pretty much, basing a whole case on absolutely nothing.

To say that a computer- simulated world that can interact with itself in order to create is something other than intelligently crafted is nonsense.

Your whole argument was nonsense, as I clearly demonstrated.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/26/2012 4:55:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 2:22:45 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
So.. We are living in our own "matrix", as you might call it. Everything operates on a certain wavelength, and our senses are tuned to perceive certain signals in order to download the information into our brain and interact with it. Everything that we interact with is only tangible insomuch as our sensory input is equipped to process the information. So, we are like computers, of a sort.

What part of this truth can you honestly stop and say that we were not created by intelligent intent? Everything about this points to design. It is evident by our own laws that we have come to find out to be true about the universe.

Everything that is created has a relative capacity that must be applied to it, due to the intent from which the creation was made. For instance, a seed needs the right conditions to grow into a plant, and the success of the growth is determined by the surroundings of which it was made. It needs requirements that are specific to its success in order to flourish. All matter needs an intent in order to be produced. From the right conditions, a seed can grow into a plant. However, a seed cannot grow into something more than a plant because of the limitations of intent that created it. Matter can only be created in a capacity that is relative to the conditions that created it.

If we apply this premise to the basis of the creation of the universe, we can clearly see that an intelligent intent was required in order to create a universe tantamount to a computer simulation, with creatures that are able to interact and produce. The matter of the universe has conditions that are directly relative dependent upon that which created it. Intelligence cannot come from intelligence.

To say that a computer- simulated world that can interact with itself in order to create is something other than intelligently crafted is nonsense.

The Epiphany scene (where Neo sees everything made of the matrix code) can be likened to the realization that everything all around you and within you is Satan's will, his kingdom:

John 16:11
and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.


1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.


Being a Christian gives us the right to choose God's will. We cannot control others but we can respond (and suffer for it) by the spirit and will of God BECAUSE Gods Son became a man.

1 Peter 3:9
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.
The Cross.. the Cross.
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
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5/26/2012 11:49:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/25/2012 6:30:10 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 5/25/2012 2:22:45 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
So.. We are living in our own "matrix", as you might call it. Everything operates on a certain wavelength, and our senses are tuned to perceive certain signals in order to download the information into our brain and interact with it. Everything that we interact with is only tangible insomuch as our sensory input is equipped to process the information. So, we are like computers, of a sort.

You are fallaciously using analogous words and trying to gloss them over throughout this paragraph, in attempts to make humans sound like computers. Of course you are implying that if we are computers, then we are designed, because computers are designed. Even if we could be compared to a computer, a stars nuclear explosions could be compared to the explosions that take place in the engine of a car. This does't mean an intelligent beings in the cosmos are forming stars all the time in the universe (we know scientifically how stars form). So the point you are trying to make here, is extremely useless in actuality.

it's not fallicious. whether or not one uses certain words to make a point does not mean that the meaning behind the language has no merit. This is what we are. Our bodies process information in a way that can be equated to a computer. We can make that analogy because we are at the point where we can simulate our own version of the universe. And this introduction wasn't the point. The point was that intelligence cannot come out of non-intelligence because a creation is directly linked to what created it.


What part of this truth can you honestly stop and say that we were not created by intelligent intent? Everything about this points to design. It is evident by our own laws that we have come to find out to be true about the universe.

All you are doing is committing the bare assertion fallacy. It's not hard:

None of it points to intelligent design or intent, and it all points to a precarious natural system.


Everything that is created has a relative capacity that must be applied to it, due to the intent from which the creation was made. For instance, a seed needs the right conditions to grow into a plant, and the success of the growth is determined by the surroundings of which it was made. It needs requirements that are specific to its success in order to flourish. All matter needs an intent in order to be produced. From the right conditions, a seed can grow into a plant. However, a seed cannot grow into something more than a plant because of the limitations of intent that created it. Matter can only be created in a capacity that is relative to the conditions that created it.

This of course, is a serious case of question begging. How can you rule out nature producing intelligence and not vice versa?

Because nature has intelligence imbued in it.

If we apply this premise to the basis of the creation of the universe, we can clearly see that an intelligent intent was required in order to create a universe tantamount to a computer simulation, with creatures that are able to interact and produce. The matter of the universe has conditions that are directly relative dependent upon that which created it. Intelligence cannot come from intelligence.

If intelligence cannot come from intelligence, then your whole case crumbles (I'm going to assume it was a typo). Regardless, are confusing two concepts:

(i) An intelligence greater than us, created us (intelligent beings)

(ii) Something greater than intelligence, produced intelligence

I mean intelligence is useful for problem solving, maybe nature has no problems, and thus intelligence is meaningless when talking about the process that gave rise to us.

If intelligence was meaningless then it would have no place in the universe. What else in the universe is meaningless in the sense that it doesn't have an effect on what is around us? the design of the universe in the first place, the downloading of information that is self-interactive, is a form of intelligence itself, regardless of whether or not we perceive it that way.

Also, you are forgetting a third option:

(iii) Something less than intelligence, produced intelliegence

I mean surely a few loose pebbles are less than a massive avalanche in greatness, but they can give rise to one. A stupid mother could have sex with a stupid man and produce a genius. There are simply plenty examples of things that are less in greatness than what they produce. Maybe nature is less great then us, but could still produce us.

I'm not talking about something grand being born out of something less grand. I am talking about something being born with different properties than their creator.

You are pretty much, basing a whole case on absolutely nothing.

To say that a computer- simulated world that can interact with itself in order to create is something other than intelligently crafted is nonsense.

Your whole argument was nonsense, as I clearly demonstrated.
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Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
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5/26/2012 11:53:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/26/2012 4:55:01 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

The Epiphany scene (where Neo sees everything made of the matrix code) can be likened to the realization that everything all around you and within you is Satan's will, his kingdom:

John 16:11
and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.


1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.


Being a Christian gives us the right to choose God's will. We cannot control others but we can respond (and suffer for it) by the spirit and will of God BECAUSE Gods Son became a man.

1 Peter 3:9
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.


Man, those lines from the matrix are among my all time favorite quotes from a movie.

Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain. But you feel it. You've felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?

The Matrix?

The matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

What truth?

That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage, born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch. A prison for your mind. Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back.
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DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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5/28/2012 4:31:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/26/2012 11:53:56 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
At 5/26/2012 4:55:01 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:

The Epiphany scene (where Neo sees everything made of the matrix code) can be likened to the realization that everything all around you and within you is Satan's will, his kingdom:

John 16:11
and about judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.


1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.


Being a Christian gives us the right to choose God's will. We cannot control others but we can respond (and suffer for it) by the spirit and will of God BECAUSE Gods Son became a man.

1 Peter 3:9
Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.


Man, those lines from the matrix are among my all time favorite quotes from a movie.

Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain. But you feel it. You've felt it your entire life. That there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there. Like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?

The Matrix?

The matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

What truth?

That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage, born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch. A prison for your mind. Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself. This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back.


The real matrix, the real illusion; THE LIE is that we have a will of our own, that there is a third way, a will between God's and the devils.. Satan sells his will as your own.
The Cross.. the Cross.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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5/28/2012 4:58:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I never realized LDF was a theist/deist/christian/whatever.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.