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Biblical Creation NOT Compatible W/ Evolution

jat93
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5/26/2012 6:44:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At first glance, the Biblical account of creation seems to contradict the theory of evolution outright. For one, all of God's creation is made in six days. (I'm going to assume that the reader has at least a very basic understanding of the theory of evolution and why a six-day creation of everything by God would be incompatible with it.) We know now and have known for over a hundred years of the truth of evolution, as confirmed by various sciences including: anthropology, biology, microbiology, genetics, biochemistry, paleontology, archeology, entomology, geology, plate tectonics, astronomy, and cosmology.

So if the Bible's creation story contradicts evolution, it's most likely wrong. After all, religion has its own agenda to pursue, but the plethora of various different sciences that have independently confirmed the theory of evolution are as unbiased and concerned about the truth as any study can be. The Bible on the other hand is just one book, and it also happens to be thousands of years old, written in societies where most people were illiterate, nobody had any of inkling of what the scientific method was, much of nature was thought to be miraculous and horrifying, and of course there was a lot of iron age barbarism. (Slavery, women as property, death penalty for imaginary/victimless crimes like witchcraft and picking up sticks on the sabbath, etc.)

Now onto the crux of my argument: the incompatibility of the theory of evolution with the biblical account of creation.

I think most religious people today are resigned to the truth of evolution. Most of the religious people who deny evolution are fundamentalist extremists, though unfortunately there are a whole lot of them. However, most religious people defend their belief in the bible and acceptance of evolution as follows: The creation story wasn't literal. The six days weren't literal 6 days. Instead a day was some vast, huge amount of time, and so evolution, which also takes place over a huge amount of time, is still compatible with the Bible.

There are many proofs that this reasoning is incorrect and that the bible was referring to six literal days.

For starters, the word that is used for "day", the Hebrew word "yom", is the same word used later in the bible - even later in the book of Genesis - to describe 24 hour days. ("And the flood was forty days upon the earth" - Genesis 7:17). Yom is used consistently throughout the Bible to refer to 24 hour days. Referring to the creation story itself, in Exodus 20:9-11 God says that the Israelites should work for 6 days and rest on the 7th "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth... and rested the seventh day."

Furthermore, Genesis 1:16 states that "God made two great lights: The greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night." Genesis 1:5 says "and the evening and the morning were the first day." Clearly these too verses are referring to time as we know it, with 24 hour days.

Here, I think, is the kicker - the absolutely undeniable proof that the biblical account of creation is incompatible with evolution. Adam was made on the sixth day which was supposedly really a huge, vast amount of time. This was followed by the 7th day which was also a huge, vast amount of time. Following the 7th day, Adam fell into sin and was expelled from the Garden. This would mean Adam lived a huge, vast amount of time, but Genesis 5:5 says he died at the age of 930. While there are no documented cases of humans living so long, and while there is documented proof that before the advent of modern medicine and science the average human life span was somewhere at most around 25-30 years), 930 years is not enough to qualify as the vast amount of time that theists claim each day really was. Even if you allowed for a day to be as long as Adam's life, it would still by no means be enough time to allow for the theory of evolution.

It's clear that whoever wrote the creation story in the Bible was referring to literal, 24 hour days; after 6 of these God was finished with all his creation. This is not compatible with the theory of evolution which explains much of our origins and development. Since the theory of evolution is observable, testable, and can be demonstrated through various different sciences - in fact the only reason why anyone ever seems to doubt evolution is because of a single ancient book with no corroborating sources that they accept as true most likely because they were raised to believe so - the bible's creation story is therefore demonstrably false.

Note: I got almost all of this info from the following website: http://www.evilbible.com...
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/26/2012 7:30:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
haven't I seen this before..?
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
AARON84
Posts: 1
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5/26/2012 8:21:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/26/2012 6:44:39 PM, jat93 wrote:
At first glance, the Biblical account of creation seems to contradict the theory of evolution outright. For one, all of God's creation is made in six days. (I'm going to assume that the reader has at least a very basic understanding of the theory of evolution and why a six-day creation of everything by God would be incompatible with it.) We know now and have known for over a hundred years of the truth of evolution, as confirmed by various sciences including: anthropology, biology, microbiology, genetics, biochemistry, paleontology, archeology, entomology, geology, plate tectonics, astronomy, and cosmology.

So if the Bible's creation story contradicts evolution, it's most likely wrong. After all, religion has its own agenda to pursue, but the plethora of various different sciences that have independently confirmed the theory of evolution are as unbiased and concerned about the truth as any study can be. The Bible on the other hand is just one book, and it also happens to be thousands of years old, written in societies where most people were illiterate, nobody had any of inkling of what the scientific method was, much of nature was thought to be miraculous and horrifying, and of course there was a lot of iron age barbarism. (Slavery, women as property, death penalty for imaginary/victimless crimes like witchcraft and picking up sticks on the sabbath, etc.)

Now onto the crux of my argument: the incompatibility of the theory of evolution with the biblical account of creation.

I think most religious people today are resigned to the truth of evolution. Most of the religious people who deny evolution are fundamentalist extremists, though unfortunately there are a whole lot of them. However, most religious people defend their belief in the bible and acceptance of evolution as follows: The creation story wasn't literal. The six days weren't literal 6 days. Instead a day was some vast, huge amount of time, and so evolution, which also takes place over a huge amount of time, is still compatible with the Bible.

There are many proofs that this reasoning is incorrect and that the bible was referring to six literal days.

For starters, the word that is used for "day", the Hebrew word "yom", is the same word used later in the bible - even later in the book of Genesis - to describe 24 hour days. ("And the flood was forty days upon the earth" - Genesis 7:17). Yom is used consistently throughout the Bible to refer to 24 hour days. Referring to the creation story itself, in Exodus 20:9-11 God says that the Israelites should work for 6 days and rest on the 7th "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth... and rested the seventh day."

Furthermore, Genesis 1:16 states that "God made two great lights: The greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night." Genesis 1:5 says "and the evening and the morning were the first day." Clearly these too verses are referring to time as we know it, with 24 hour days.

Here, I think, is the kicker - the absolutely undeniable proof that the biblical account of creation is incompatible with evolution. Adam was made on the sixth day which was supposedly really a huge, vast amount of time. This was followed by the 7th day which was also a huge, vast amount of time. Following the 7th day, Adam fell into sin and was expelled from the Garden. This would mean Adam lived a huge, vast amount of time, but Genesis 5:5 says he died at the age of 930. While there are no documented cases of humans living so long, and while there is documented proof that before the advent of modern medicine and science the average human life span was somewhere at most around 25-30 years), 930 years is not enough to qualify as the vast amount of time that theists claim each day really was. Even if you allowed for a day to be as long as Adam's life, it would still by no means be enough time to allow for the theory of evolution.

It's clear that whoever wrote the creation story in the Bible was referring to literal, 24 hour days; after 6 of these God was finished with all his creation. This is not compatible with the theory of evolution which explains much of our origins and development. Since the theory of evolution is observable, testable, and can be demonstrated through various different sciences - in fact the only reason why anyone ever seems to doubt evolution is because of a single ancient book with no corroborating sources that they accept as true most likely because they were raised to believe so - the bible's creation story is therefore demonstrably false.

Note: I got almost all of this info from the following website: http://www.evilbible.com...

The origin of life has nothing to do with the theory of evolution the theory of evolution by natural selection only applies once life has arisen
CrazyPerson
Posts: 1,114
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5/26/2012 8:22:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/26/2012 6:44:39 PM, jat93 wrote:
At first glance, the Biblical account of creation seems to contradict the theory of evolution outright. For one, all of God's creation is made in six days. (I'm going to assume that the reader has at least a very basic understanding of the theory of evolution and why a six-day creation of everything by God would be incompatible with it.) We know now and have known for over a hundred years of the truth of evolution, as confirmed by various sciences including: anthropology, biology, microbiology, genetics, biochemistry, paleontology, archeology, entomology, geology, plate tectonics, astronomy, and cosmology.

So if the Bible's creation story contradicts evolution, it's most likely wrong. After all, religion has its own agenda to pursue, but the plethora of various different sciences that have independently confirmed the theory of evolution are as unbiased and concerned about the truth as any study can be. The Bible on the other hand is just one book, and it also happens to be thousands of years old, written in societies where most people were illiterate, nobody had any of inkling of what the scientific method was, much of nature was thought to be miraculous and horrifying, and of course there was a lot of iron age barbarism. (Slavery, women as property, death penalty for imaginary/victimless crimes like witchcraft and picking up sticks on the sabbath, etc.)

Now onto the crux of my argument: the incompatibility of the theory of evolution with the biblical account of creation.

I think most religious people today are resigned to the truth of evolution. Most of the religious people who deny evolution are fundamentalist extremists, though unfortunately there are a whole lot of them. However, most religious people defend their belief in the bible and acceptance of evolution as follows: The creation story wasn't literal. The six days weren't literal 6 days. Instead a day was some vast, huge amount of time, and so evolution, which also takes place over a huge amount of time, is still compatible with the Bible.

There are many proofs that this reasoning is incorrect and that the bible was referring to six literal days.

For starters, the word that is used for "day", the Hebrew word "yom", is the same word used later in the bible - even later in the book of Genesis - to describe 24 hour days. ("And the flood was forty days upon the earth" - Genesis 7:17). Yom is used consistently throughout the Bible to refer to 24 hour days. Referring to the creation story itself, in Exodus 20:9-11 God says that the Israelites should work for 6 days and rest on the 7th "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth... and rested the seventh day."

Furthermore, Genesis 1:16 states that "God made two great lights: The greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night." Genesis 1:5 says "and the evening and the morning were the first day." Clearly these too verses are referring to time as we know it, with 24 hour days.

Here, I think, is the kicker - the absolutely undeniable proof that the biblical account of creation is incompatible with evolution. Adam was made on the sixth day which was supposedly really a huge, vast amount of time. This was followed by the 7th day which was also a huge, vast amount of time. Following the 7th day, Adam fell into sin and was expelled from the Garden. This would mean Adam lived a huge, vast amount of time, but Genesis 5:5 says he died at the age of 930. While there are no documented cases of humans living so long, and while there is documented proof that before the advent of modern medicine and science the average human life span was somewhere at most around 25-30 years), 930 years is not enough to qualify as the vast amount of time that theists claim each day really was. Even if you allowed for a day to be as long as Adam's life, it would still by no means be enough time to allow for the theory of evolution.

It's clear that whoever wrote the creation story in the Bible was referring to literal, 24 hour days; after 6 of these God was finished with all his creation. This is not compatible with the theory of evolution which explains much of our origins and development. Since the theory of evolution is observable, testable, and can be demonstrated through various different sciences - in fact the only reason why anyone ever seems to doubt evolution is because of a single ancient book with no corroborating sources that they accept as true most likely because they were raised to believe so - the bible's creation story is therefore demonstrably false.

Note: I got almost all of this info from the following website: http://www.evilbible.com...

Evolution is compatible with everything. It's just change/time and claims no creative device.
But we try to pretend, you see, that the external world exists altogether independently of us.
- - - Watts
The moralist is the person who tells people that they ought to be unselfish, when they still feel like egos, and his efforts are always and invariably futile.
- - - Watts
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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5/26/2012 8:27:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The only part of the Genesis Account and Evolution that would conflict might be phylatic gradualism over millenia.

The other forms of evolution do not contradict.

Additionally, given that PG evolution is largely interpretation from fossil records, I am not that concerned. It is even less concerning to realize that PG requires 100's of trillions of years to be plausible and that is not the case. If PG can be shrunk by significant percentages in the next couple of years to 'fit' into what we know about the age of the earth, such percentages can shrink it further to 'fit' into the Biblical account.

I still remain agnostic about it, but either way it does not contradict the account.

This says nothing about the source of the information within DNA... and PE, super evolution and epigenetics actually give support for the Noahide Account that followed.

All in all the OP does nothing to address the actuality of evolution or the actuality of the Biblical account.

Perhaps an amendment to the OP would be due?
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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5/26/2012 9:41:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/26/2012 7:50:51 PM, Rusty wrote:
Well, I guess that settles it...

Pretty much.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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5/26/2012 9:50:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/26/2012 6:44:39 PM, jat93 wrote:
At first glance, the Biblical account of creation seems to contradict the theory of evolution outright. For one, all of God's creation is made in six days. (I'm going to assume that the reader has at least a very basic understanding of the theory of evolution and why a six-day creation of everything by God would be incompatible with it.) We know now and have known for over a hundred years of the truth of evolution, as confirmed by various sciences including: anthropology, biology, microbiology, genetics, biochemistry, paleontology, archeology, entomology, geology, plate tectonics, astronomy, and cosmology.

So if the Bible's creation story contradicts evolution, it's most likely wrong. After all, religion has its own agenda to pursue, but the plethora of various different sciences that have independently confirmed the theory of evolution are as unbiased and concerned about the truth as any study can be. The Bible on the other hand is just one book, and it also happens to be thousands of years old, written in societies where most people were illiterate, nobody had any of inkling of what the scientific method was, much of nature was thought to be miraculous and horrifying, and of course there was a lot of iron age barbarism. (Slavery, women as property, death penalty for imaginary/victimless crimes like witchcraft and picking up sticks on the sabbath, etc.)

Now onto the crux of my argument: the incompatibility of the theory of evolution with the biblical account of creation.

I think most religious people today are resigned to the truth of evolution. Most of the religious people who deny evolution are fundamentalist extremists, though unfortunately there are a whole lot of them. However, most religious people defend their belief in the bible and acceptance of evolution as follows: The creation story wasn't literal. The six days weren't literal 6 days. Instead a day was some vast, huge amount of time, and so evolution, which also takes place over a huge amount of time, is still compatible with the Bible.

There are many proofs that this reasoning is incorrect and that the bible was referring to six literal days.

For starters, the word that is used for "day", the Hebrew word "yom", is the same word used later in the bible - even later in the book of Genesis - to describe 24 hour days. ("And the flood was forty days upon the earth" - Genesis 7:17). Yom is used consistently throughout the Bible to refer to 24 hour days. Referring to the creation story itself, in Exodus 20:9-11 God says that the Israelites should work for 6 days and rest on the 7th "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth... and rested the seventh day."

Furthermore, Genesis 1:16 states that "God made two great lights: The greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night." Genesis 1:5 says "and the evening and the morning were the first day." Clearly these too verses are referring to time as we know it, with 24 hour days.

Here, I think, is the kicker - the absolutely undeniable proof that the biblical account of creation is incompatible with evolution. Adam was made on the sixth day which was supposedly really a huge, vast amount of time. This was followed by the 7th day which was also a huge, vast amount of time. Following the 7th day, Adam fell into sin and was expelled from the Garden. This would mean Adam lived a huge, vast amount of time, but Genesis 5:5 says he died at the age of 930. While there are no documented cases of humans living so long, and while there is documented proof that before the advent of modern medicine and science the average human life span was somewhere at most around 25-30 years), 930 years is not enough to qualify as the vast amount of time that theists claim each day really was. Even if you allowed for a day to be as long as Adam's life, it would still by no means be enough time to allow for the theory of evolution.

It's clear that whoever wrote the creation story in the Bible was referring to literal, 24 hour days; after 6 of these God was finished with all his creation. This is not compatible with the theory of evolution which explains much of our origins and development. Since the theory of evolution is observable, testable, and can be demonstrated through various different sciences - in fact the only reason why anyone ever seems to doubt evolution is because of a single ancient book with no corroborating sources that they accept as true most likely because they were raised to believe so - the bible's creation story is therefore demonstrably false.

Note: I got almost all of this info from the following website: http://www.evilbible.com...

That is just flat out nonsense.
TheAsylum
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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5/27/2012 3:43:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/26/2012 6:44:39 PM, jat93 wrote:

For starters, the word that is used for "day", the Hebrew word "yom", is the same word used later in the bible - even later in the book of Genesis - to describe 24 hour days. ("And the flood was forty days upon the earth" - Genesis 7:17). Yom is used consistently throughout the Bible to refer to 24 hour days. Referring to the creation story itself, in Exodus 20:9-11 God says that the Israelites should work for 6 days and rest on the 7th "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth... and rested the seventh day."

http://www.biblestudytools.com...

Yowm - afternoon* 1, age 8, age* 1, all 1, always* 14, amount* 2, battle 1, birthday* 1, Chronicles* 38, completely* 1, continually* 14, course* 1, daily 22, daily the days 1, day 1115, day of the days 1, day that the period 1, day's 6, day's every day 1, daylight* 1, days 635, days on the day 1, days to day 1, days you shall daily 1, days ago 1, days' 11, each 1, each day 4, entire 2, eternity 1, evening* 1, ever in your life* 1, every day 2, fate 1, first 5, forever* 11, forevermore* 1, full 5, full year 1, future* 1, holiday* 3, later* 2, length 1, life 12, life* 1, lifetime 2, lifetime* 1, live 1, long 2, long as i live 1, long* 11, midday* 1, now 5, older* 1, once 2, period 3, perpetually* 2, present 1, recently 1, reigns 1, ripe* 1, short-lived* 1, so long* 1, some time 1, survived* 2, time 45, time* 1, times* 2, today 172, today* 1, usual 1, very old* 1, when 10, when the days 1, whenever 1, while 3, whole 2, year 10, yearly 5, years 13, yesterday* 1

Note: I got almost all of this info from the following website: http://www.evilbible.com...

Sorry... evilbible.com? I'm going to have to look into that, sounds like fun.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/27/2012 5:38:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
We know now and have known for over a hundred years of the truth of evolution

Actually, we don't know the truth of evolution. The ONLY thing we have is that evolution is very, very sound. We have no direct evidence for evolution beyond a handful of complete skeletons, which don't tell as much as you think they do.

Since logic and science are, by definition, incompatible, we can say that evolution is not scientific. It is based on a massive supermajority combined with logical deductions based on a few bits of evidence.

So if the Bible's creation story contradicts evolution, it's most likely wrong.

This is where your argument diverges from science. Science doesn't state things as black and white as you say. The reality is that it's way more complex than the Bible simply being "right" or "wrong."

...the plethora of various different sciences that have independently confirmed the theory of evolution are as unbiased and concerned about the truth as any study can be.

This is wrong on so many accounts.

Firstly, the Theory of Evolution is NOT a confirmed theory. There are MULTIPLE theories about the origin of species, and about the processes of evolution. To say that the standard theory has been "confirmed" is silly.

Note: evolution and the Theory of Evolution are two different things.

Secondly there is nothing to even suggest that scientists have no personal biases. If scientists didn't have biases,then there would simply be no need for the Scientific Method. This method protects scientists against their own biases.

Oh, and with the personal biases comes publication and funding bias, two things that are not strongly present in religions.

The Bible on the other hand is just one book

You'd like that to be true.

It's a compilation, not a single book. It's based on many writings from many points all throughout history.

nobody had any of inkling of what the scientific method was

That's because it wasn't invented. So? Scientific method is a human invention. It isn't a part of nature.

much of nature was thought to be miraculous and horrifying

Things are different today how exactly? When we hear of a tornado racing through, we're pretty scared.

They were scared in the same way, but that's not t say they were terrified every time they saw clouds in the sky. People knew the everyday aspects of nature as much as us. It's silly to say otherwise.

There are many proofs that this reasoning is incorrect and that the bible was referring to six literal days.

For starters, the word that is used for "day", the Hebrew word "yom", is the same word used later in the bible - even later in the book of Genesis - to describe 24 hour days. ("And the flood was forty days upon the earth" - Genesis 7:17). Yom is used consistently throughout the Bible to refer to 24 hour days. Referring to the creation story itself, in Exodus 20:9-11 God says that the Israelites should work for 6 days and rest on the 7th "for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth... and rested the seventh day."

Thing you aren't getting is that Genesis wasn't written about one single time. Genesis spans a few thousand years. The creation story can easily be expressed in days. Also, even if the creation story refers to the 24 hour day, they were likely relaying a message in a way people could understand it.

There are lots of other reasons, but the critical back breaker of your argument is that you can find no contradictions within the creation story itself of he use of "day." You have to look at a different story that took place thousands of years later to find it. This presents no argument against the creation story.

Furthermore, Genesis 1:16 states that "God made two great lights: The greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night." Genesis 1:5 says "and the evening and the morning were the first day." Clearly these too verses are referring to time as we know it, with 24 hour days.

It's two different meanings of the word "day." Day as in daytime, and day as in a 24 hour span. Those two meanings are not interchangeable. This is not an argument as much as it is semantic wordplay

Here, I think, is the kicker - the absolutely undeniable proof that the biblical account of creation is incompatible with evolution. Adam was made on the sixth day which was supposedly really a huge, vast amount of time. This was followed by the 7th day which was also a huge, vast amount of time.

You're making an incredible leap by saying that the 7th is a huge, vast amount of time. God rested on the 7th day. If you use the non literal nterpretation, days can mean phases or lots of things. Not every day has to be of equal length.

Following the 7th day, Adam fell into sin and was expelled from the Garden. This would mean Adam lived a huge, vast amount of time

Explain this leap in logic, please. What evidence is there in the creation story that, between the time Adam was created and God took his break is a huge amount of time?

It's clear that whoever wrote the creation story in the Bible was referring to literal, 24 hour days; after 6 of these God was finished with all his creation. This is not compatible with the theory of evolution which explains much of our origins and development.

Because this conclusion assumes that a day interpreted in non-literal sense must always be the same length, something that is n true if "day" is symbolic for something that is not fixed in length (such as "phase"), the conclusion of this is clearly and obviously false.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
boss1592
Posts: 80
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5/27/2012 8:30:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If you still don't believe in evolution or perhaps aren't convinced, that isn't what the thread's about, it's about whether or not it's compatable with the creation described in genesis. Let's leave debating evolution (can't quite believe we're STILL doing that) for threads that are actually devoted to it
Jon1
Posts: 314
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5/27/2012 12:08:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 8:30:08 AM, boss1592 wrote:
If you still don't believe in evolution or perhaps aren't convinced, that isn't what the thread's about, it's about whether or not it's compatable with the creation described in genesis. Let's leave debating evolution (can't quite believe we're STILL doing that) for threads that are actually devoted to it

As long as dull people exist - I wager they always will - disbelief in things like evolution, the holocaust and round earth will exist as well.