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To those thinking all relig. peop. are stupid

1dustpelt
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5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
1dustpelt
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5/27/2012 9:39:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
bumpy
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
LibertyCampbell
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5/27/2012 9:41:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

William of Ockham was religious. And I think most atheists on this site think WLC is stupid, just a good speaker.

I'm sure if Stephen_Hawking were on he'd be all over this.
"[Society] has no vested interest in continuing to exist." -RP
THEBOMB
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5/27/2012 10:10:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 9:41:56 PM, LibertyCampbell wrote:
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

William of Ockham was religious. And I think most atheists on this site think WLC is stupid, just a good speaker.

I'm sure if Stephen_Hawking were on he'd be all over this.

So Stephen_Hawking would claim Isaac Newton was not intelligent...?
thett3
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5/27/2012 10:11:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Pretty sure no one thinks that everyone religious is stupid.
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Illegalcombatant
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5/27/2012 11:26:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

Sure "religious people" covers such a diversity of people that anything you say about them generally will be wrong. This would be like saying "sporting people" are stupid.

I don't think its intelligence that's the main problem here, it's the way religion immune its self to critical thinking pressure. Religion can make all sort of claims based with no evidence, and even when evidence goes against those religious claims all sorts of rationalizations are made to reconcile the religious claim with the evidence.

There are two types of people (possible fallacy here) when it comes to examining one's own religious beliefs......

1) You question the claims, assumptions, rationalizations etc with the same vigor and skepticism you would of competing religious/pseudo scientific claims.

2) You want to believe your religiousness/pseudo scientific claims are true, and are only looking to how you can justify them in the face of opposition.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
bossyburrito
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5/27/2012 11:31:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No. We think that the beliefs are stupid, not every quality of the person.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
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5/27/2012 11:31:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 9:41:56 PM, LibertyCampbell wrote:
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

William of Ockham was religious. And I think most atheists on this site think WLC is stupid, just a good speaker.

I'm sure if Stephen_Hawking were on he'd be all over this.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
vbaculum
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5/28/2012 12:04:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

I'm surprised you left out Francis Collins.

There are correlations between intelligence/education and atheism. However, the reason intelligent people are able to believe in religious claims is simply because they really, really, really want a small subset of those claims to be true - usually the ones that provide consolation or comfort of some sort. No religious person could honestly say they've adopted a religion out of a dispassionate inquiry into nature. (Then again, most religious people can't say they've adopted a religion in the first place because most people are born into a religion and never consciously decide to adopt the truth claims of their religion as their own. Those truth claims simply form the framework of their childhood programming.)
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
Meatros
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5/28/2012 12:12:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

I think that some religious people are very smart. I'd even go so far as saying that I think some could reason me into the ground. I do not think they are *correct* with regards to God, but they can be smart.

Also, while I think WLC is a very good philosopher/debater/scholar, I don't think he belongs in that list, to be honest. Maybe in a list with notable philosophers or something, but the people on your list are mainly scientists who made revolutionary discoveries - with the other exception being Pascal, who I think (but am not sure) contributed greatly to the field of mathematics. I'm not trying to take anything away from Craig, as I said, he's a very intelligent philosopher and I respect his arguments a great deal, but he doesn't belong on that list IMO.
Apollo.11
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5/28/2012 12:16:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would like to know Galileo's opinion of the Christian Church. I have a feeling he wouldn't be as religious as you think he was...
Sapere Aude!
Agent_Orange
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5/28/2012 12:20:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 12:16:01 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
I would like to know Galileo's opinion of the Christian Church. I have a feeling he wouldn't be as religious as you think he was...

No Galileo would know that his whole banning thing was more political and not religious. Look up the story sir.
#BlackLivesMatter
bossyburrito
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5/28/2012 12:22:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 12:16:01 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
I would like to know Galileo's opinion of the Christian Church. I have a feeling he wouldn't be as religious as you think he was...

Didn't the church try to VTL Galileo?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
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5/28/2012 12:22:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 12:22:10 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 5/28/2012 12:16:01 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
I would like to know Galileo's opinion of the Christian Church. I have a feeling he wouldn't be as religious as you think he was...

Didn't the church try to VTL Galileo?

Or VThousearest. Same thing.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
ScottyDouglas
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5/28/2012 12:36:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Anyone with any sense knows thier are genius's in any field. Religion is a field. Faith though is not. religion can be religious and have nothing to do with the teachings it was founded on, this is the problems of the church today.
TheAsylum
Agent_Orange
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5/28/2012 12:46:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 12:22:10 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 5/28/2012 12:16:01 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
I would like to know Galileo's opinion of the Christian Church. I have a feeling he wouldn't be as religious as you think he was...

Didn't the church try to VTL Galileo?

Galileo's championing of heliocentrism was controversial within his lifetime, when most subscribed to either geocentrism or the Tychonic system. He met with opposition from astronomers,who doubted heliocentrism due to the absence of an observed stellar parallax. The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, and they concluded that it could only be supported as a possibility, not as an established fact.Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated him and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point. He was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest.

All politics.
#BlackLivesMatter
Kinesis
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5/28/2012 1:43:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

lol, WLC does not belong in that list.
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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5/28/2012 1:58:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

The only people who think that William Lane Craig is stupid are those who don't understand his arguments.

It's ironic that New Atheists think that religious people are stupid, yet the hallmark of New Atheism is shifting the burden of proof and coming up with arguments that wouldn't cut it in the academic world of philosophy.
popculturepooka
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5/28/2012 2:12:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 12:04:29 AM, vbaculum wrote:


However, the reason intelligent people are able to believe in religious claims is simply because they really, really, really want a small subset of those claims to be true - usually the ones that provide consolation or comfort of some sort. No religious person could honestly say they've adopted a religion out of a dispassionate inquiry into nature.

Despite the numerous dubious claims (like the alleged possibility of "dispassionate" inquiry and the absurd reduction of the reasoning process involved) in this post as is; can I ask you something? How you would feel if I made the same claims about atheists? Would you take those claims seriously?
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
popculturepooka
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5/28/2012 2:13:43 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 12:16:01 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
I would like to know Galileo's opinion of the Christian Church. I have a feeling he wouldn't be as religious as you think he was...

He was devoutly Catholic, brah.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Clash
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5/28/2012 6:24:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

Indeed, to say that all religious people are stupid, is really...stupid. Moreover, you must not forget these great religious people too:

Averroes
Avicenna
Ibn al-Haitham
al-Zahrawi
Al-Razi

To mention just a few.
1dustpelt
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5/28/2012 10:23:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 12:16:01 AM, Apollo.11 wrote:
I would like to know Galileo's opinion of the Christian Church. I have a feeling he wouldn't be as religious as you think he was...

He was religious. He just did not agree with the corruption in the Catholic Church.
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
vbaculum
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5/28/2012 12:45:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 2:12:16 AM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 5/28/2012 12:04:29 AM, vbaculum wrote:


However, the reason intelligent people are able to believe in religious claims is simply because they really, really, really want a small subset of those claims to be true - usually the ones that provide consolation or comfort of some sort. No religious person could honestly say they've adopted a religion out of a dispassionate inquiry into nature.

Despite the numerous dubious claims (like the alleged possibility of "dispassionate" inquiry and the absurd reduction of the reasoning process involved) in this post as is; can I ask you something? How you would feel if I made the same claims about atheists? Would you take those claims seriously?

The claim "atheists are motivated by a wishful thinking bias to believe no gods exists" could be made with the same force to anybody; atheist or theist. This is because both atheists and theist don't believe in the existence of the thousands of gods that human cultures have created over the past several thousands of years (monotheist just happen to make an exception for one). So asserting that atheist have a wishful thinking bias because they don't believe in an ancient Semitic war god is the same as asserting that theists have a wishful thinking bias in not believing in the existence of a ancient Roman war god. Christians aren't motivated by wishful thinking in thinking that Mars was merely mythological. By the same token, atheists aren't motivated by wishful thinking in believing that Yahweh is mythological. What is clear is that religions provide comfort and certainty (and other psychological factors) and that both of these are powerful incentives which cause people to believe things which are so unbelievable that one needs faith to believe them.

I do think it is possible to look to religion claims as a way of dispassionately inquiring into nature. However, in modern times it practically never happens. Though I think it's understandable that some people believe that the universe must have been designed, one rarely encounters a deist in modern times who says, "there must have been designer though nothing can be known about this designer". However, a lot of people believe in a designer but the attributes they needlessly assign to the designer (such as "He watches over me", "He has a plan for me", etc.) clearly show a wishful thinking bias.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
000ike
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5/28/2012 12:51:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 10:11:21 PM, thett3 wrote:
Pretty sure no one thinks that everyone religious is stupid.

I'm pretty sure you've accused me of that before........
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
cbrhawk1
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5/28/2012 12:52:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

You forgot Charles Darwin.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
Oryus
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5/28/2012 12:53:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
So.... who exactly thinks all religious people are stupid? Because if so, they are stupid.

It's one small step away from just thinking all people are stupid. Might as well just go with that one.
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vbaculum
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5/28/2012 1:43:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 12:52:48 PM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

You forgot Charles Darwin.

That's a touch dubious.

From http://en.wikipedia.org...:

Darwin remained close friends with the vicar of Downe, John Innes, and continued to play a leading part in the parish work of the church,[159] but from around 1849 would go for a walk on Sundays while his family attended church.[154] He considered it "absurd to doubt that a man might be an ardent theist and an evolutionist"[160][161] and, though reticent about his religious views, in 1879 he wrote that "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally ... an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."[84][160]

The "Lady Hope Story", published in 1915, claimed that Darwin had reverted back to Christianity on his sickbed. The claims were repudiated by Darwin's children and have been dismissed as false by historians.[162]
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
stubs
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5/28/2012 2:06:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 1:43:13 PM, vbaculum wrote:

That's a touch dubious.

From http://en.wikipedia.org...:

Darwin remained close friends with the vicar of Downe, John Innes, and continued to play a leading part in the parish work of the church,[159] but from around 1849 would go for a walk on Sundays while his family attended church.[154] He considered it "absurd to doubt that a man might be an ardent theist and an evolutionist"[160][161] and, though reticent about his religious views, in 1879 he wrote that "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally ... an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."[84][160]

The "Lady Hope Story", published in 1915, claimed that Darwin had reverted back to Christianity on his sickbed. The claims were repudiated by Darwin's children and have been dismissed as false by historians.[162]


A lot of that was due to the death of his daughter, not the actual supposed friction between biological evolution and theism. Of course that's just what I've seen in some that I've studied but obv I wasn't there to ask him so I can't know for sure.
cbrhawk1
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5/28/2012 2:13:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 1:43:13 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 5/28/2012 12:52:48 PM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
At 5/27/2012 9:28:55 PM, 1dustpelt wrote:
Sorry about the title, could not fit it all.

Issac Newton
Galileo
William Lane Craig
Copernicus
Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Pascal

Just to name a few

You forgot Charles Darwin.

That's a touch dubious.

From http://en.wikipedia.org...:

Darwin remained close friends with the vicar of Downe, John Innes, and continued to play a leading part in the parish work of the church,[159] but from around 1849 would go for a walk on Sundays while his family attended church.[154] He considered it "absurd to doubt that a man might be an ardent theist and an evolutionist"[160][161] and, though reticent about his religious views, in 1879 he wrote that "I have never been an atheist in the sense of denying the existence of a God. – I think that generally ... an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."[84][160]

The "Lady Hope Story", published in 1915, claimed that Darwin had reverted back to Christianity on his sickbed. The claims were repudiated by Darwin's children and have been dismissed as false by historians.[162]


But, when he first did work on evolution, those weren't his thoughts

On the Origin of Species reflects theological views. Though he thought of religion as a tribal survival strategy, Darwin still believed that God was the ultimate lawgiver,[10][11] and later recollected that at the time he was convinced of the existence of God as a First Cause and deserved to be called a theist.

Darwin publicly had to be non-religious, but his education, upbringing, and work was mostly with churches. So, that lads me to go with the saying "actions speak louder than words."
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman