Total Posts:15|Showing Posts:1-15
Jump to topic:

Question for all the thiest to answer

Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 10:22:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Atheist, I am very serious, please do not spam this thread with your opinions on this topic from your "there is no god" perspective. I'm sure there great and I would even like to read how you all split on the issue in another thread, but for thread if you absolutely have to post keep it to the logical consequences of my question on theist and even more helpfully christian beliefs.

you see I have to write a sermon by the 10th and need some help, I need to know what the average take is on Alien Life among the other theist and most specifically the christians on this site.

Its been about a year now or two right since the pope said that its the churches offical position that aliens could exist and there be no problems with that in the bible.

whenever I get asked by someone interested in aliens, and alien gurus can get really into there favorite topic....if I believe in UFO's or Aliens I haven't been able to give a solid yes or no. I think the roswell incident has an uber suspicious history, the history of tech that was developed shortly after the crash of the "weather balloon" there is interesting and the numerous sightings of things that are not just a visual sight but a logistical impact on WW2 (foo fighters) makes one wonder.

about any pastor I have spoken too says its entirely possible god created life on other planets.

but they dont speak on it much or go into some serious theological questions I want some oppinions on

So to all the christians paticularly and thiest in general, if intellegent life was created on other planets and there are aliens out there who even visit our earth (hypothetically), what is it that you beleve ABOUT these Aliens.

by ABOUT I mean do you think being from another planet that would still be affected by the sin of adam, or do you think they could in virture still be like the angles having never fallen? would it be a nessisary default just by being part of creation like the deer and the rocks and the trees and the racoons that they fell with along with all creation during the fall of Adam?

if they are fallen, did they get redeemed by jesus sacrifice on the cross? just by defult as much as the deer and the racoons and the trees a the rocks were redeemed or do they need to know in the same sense we need to know about jesus because they are intellegent? would they need him to die on a cross on there own planet or was the one sacifice enough on ours? could we need to go there planet to preach the word or sense there so far away has god made legit contact with them and given them there own bible like we have?

or are the angles litarlly angles or demigods like you know Thor on the Avengers or even more specifically like the angle/aliens on the nicolous cage movie Knowing? is that why a lot of people seem to think theres evedence to theorize aliens are benovelent coming to earth to try and help our lost species, cause they are basically the angles spoken of in the bible, or would you say its safe to say that the angles and the intellegent extraterrestial life are not the same beings?

is it your view that if they exist that they along with deer and raccoons are unsavable and cannot be trusted, they are evil?

what would your theological take on Aliens and UFO existing and even visiting earth be if they actual are out there? or in your mind is it just flat out incompatible and the discover of such life would destroy your faith?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 10:54:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wow. I am very interested in this topic.

Some of your questions are simply unable to be explained. To be honest, I just don't know, and no one can really know. However, we can look at clues, and we can think about what has been put out there.

I mean, sure, there is a plethora of evidence, although most of that evidence is circumstantial. Here are a few points to support alien existence in our history:

- The ancients actually believed that their rulers were otherworldly beings. Yes, the rulers that interacted with them on a day to day basis. The babylonians, sumerians, Mesopotamian, etc. They all believed that creatures from the sky came to earth, mated with the women, and became their rulers. It's all over their records and it is an interesting point when you consider that they knew more about outer space than we did 50 years ago. The sumerians even have a tablet that gives tips about how to find earth from outer space.
- The epic of gilgamesh and other ancient tales from all over the world described atomic wars among the aliens. There has been evidence of areas where there seems to be radiation that destroyed ancient cites.
- Whole mountains have been cut in half near the nasca lines (and the tops are nowhere to be found.) Some of the bricks in zigurats and the pyrimad of giza are tens of thousands of tons. We simply did not have the technology at the time to move these structures, as evident of the other clues about technology that we've found in the past, and the claim that people did it with slave force is almost preposterous when you take into account where they would have gotten the stones for some of these sites.
- The disclosure has hundreds of military officials come out and say that they saw extra-terrestrials deactivating their nuclear weapons.

So... some seem to think that extra terrestrials are other dimensional beings. Could Aliens and Demons be one in the same? Some also seem to believe that Aliens are the cause for our fall. They tampered with our DNA so that only our 5 senses could be used to perceive the world around us. They wanted to use us as slaves and they feed off of our negative energy. (I mean, this is what ancient alien researchers believe, and it sounds like the devil, right?) Supposedly, after the deluge, they stopped ruling over us, and have been using us in more subtle and hidden ways.

I could talk about this for hours and it would be just the tip of the iceburg. What do I believe about it? I'm not sure yet, to be honest. I'm still researching.

I hope this answered some of your questions, in part.

Making a sermon about it? Phew, good luck with that!! There was a Preacher I found on youtube that talked about these topics. I'll try finding it for you.

Of course, the simple approach is to say that what isn't said in the bible is just as telling as what is said in the bible. Though my personal opinion is that a book can only tell part of the truth.
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 11:10:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think it also helps to put things in perspective that from before our time, "heaven" and "sky" were synonymous.

So the nephilim, or the watchers, or fallen angels, could be what we call aliens?
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 11:19:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
my personal take is that there are aliens out there right now, but I dont know for sure what I want to think about them. I like your theory that they and fallen angles are one in the same. the numerous tales about sky people coming down and mating with wemon from non-biblical tales matches perfectly with the story of the world before the flood. I agree that in the older text when the term "hevens" was used it could mean the stars just as much as it could the clouds and the relm of God.

I was reading a website were a guy was ranting how we should not trust aliens and how they cant be saved, that jesus only died for his human kisnman. but I've heard it put that his sacrifice was so huge that it redeemed all creation. it completely countered the fall caused by adam. So if one is to take the position that Aliens cannot be saved then they also have to take the position that they dont need saved because they did not fall with adam. but if they did than because of the extent of gods power the only sacrifice needed for them would be the one Jesus already made for all. thats the key note im going to preach.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 11:23:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
i also think whats not said in the bible is just as important too. thats why we methodist draw from 4 sources, the bible, tradition, reasoning, and experince.

so you got Scripture saying....
from the hevens angles slept with wemon on earth
and you got traditions.....
other cultures telling very similar storyies
and you got reasoning....
structures like the prymids and objects like the crystal skulls that could not have been made by man at the time
and you got experince....
hundreds of peopel seeing "lights" in phenix that resemble the Foo fighter in WW2, aka UFO's
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Lickdafoot
Posts: 5,599
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 11:28:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I had to go waaaay back in my youtube history to find this :P

He's a rabbi, not a preacher, but most of what we might relate to alien talk in the bible is found in genesis.

It's long, and he's not the most charismatic speaker, but it's interesting nonetheless, and might give you some tips for your sermon.
WAKE UP AND READ THIS: http://www.debate.org...
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 11:29:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Its tempting to think that when you start talking like this about angles and aliens being the synonomous that you could be doing what some athiest kind of do with "ancient astronaut theory" to argue away God. where basically any miracle that cant be explained by regular natural causes that we attribute to God doing they say "well those were aliens that were behind that" even to the point of aliens being behind the clear evidence for design within our genetics and other biological wonders that show irreducible complexity. even Ben Stien could get Richard Dawins to agree to saying I.D. theory was a perfectly possible alternative to darwinism if it was aliens that did it and not God.

but its a different perspective with how we are making the connection, rather than saying the supernatural are actually just alien life, were saying the alien life is actually part of the literally supernatural.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 11:30:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 11:28:11 AM, Lickdafoot wrote:
I had to go waaaay back in my youtube history to find this :P

He's a rabbi, not a preacher, but most of what we might relate to alien talk in the bible is found in genesis.

It's long, and he's not the most charismatic speaker, but it's interesting nonetheless, and might give you some tips for your sermon.



Thank you :) I'm defentily going to make time to watch this before I write my sermon
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 12:08:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
My philosophy on alien life is actually rather simple. I am skeptical that alien life created outside of this Earth exists. I don't eliminate the possibility, but I doubt it because of the near impossibility of life arising by random chance.

I don't think that believing in aliens is outside of the Bible though, and there are strong questions about human ability to advance through Egyptian times and others.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 12:18:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 12:08:52 PM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
My philosophy on alien life is actually rather simple. I am skeptical that alien life created outside of this Earth exists. I don't eliminate the possibility, but I doubt it because of the near impossibility of life arising by random chance.

I don't think that believing in aliens is outside of the Bible though, and there are strong questions about human ability to advance through Egyptian times and others.

okay, so you dont believe they probably exist but dont rule it out.

but what would you think about aliens relationship to man if they did exist? are they affected by the fall of adam? are saved by the cross? or are what we would call aliens actually fallen angles or non-fallen angles from heaven?
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 12:46:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 12:18:58 PM, Marauder wrote:
At 5/28/2012 12:08:52 PM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
My philosophy on alien life is actually rather simple. I am skeptical that alien life created outside of this Earth exists. I don't eliminate the possibility, but I doubt it because of the near impossibility of life arising by random chance.

I don't think that believing in aliens is outside of the Bible though, and there are strong questions about human ability to advance through Egyptian times and others.

okay, so you dont believe they probably exist but dont rule it out.

but what would you think about aliens relationship to man if they did exist? are they affected by the fall of adam? are saved by the cross? or are what we would call aliens actually fallen angles or non-fallen angles from heaven?

I've considered this question heavily, and, I think that God could have even come to multiple people i this world in different ways, giving different methods to acquire that holy spirit that we are familiar with. I think that same logic can extend to alien life. Perhaps God approached many types of life in many different ways, giving them the same opportunities.

I'm genuinely curious, just like you, of how God related to other people such as East Asians. But, we both know the steps we took when we were saved, how to maintain our relationship with God, and the knowledge of that rationship, but it's not to say that others took the same steps as us.

I'm not really sure how my viewpoint would help you in your sermon since it's probably a pretty different thought than a lot of people give, but that's my best guess at things based on years of thinking about it.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 1:00:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Incredibly interesting question. Quite, quite interesting.
I'm not incredibly sure about my stance on this, so all my answers are tentative.

I assume aliens would be affected by the sin, and that they would be saved, and because I get the impression God prefers humans I think the one sacrifice was enough. If they were intelligent, I suppose God would have contacted them.

I am nearly certain extraterrestrial life and angels are separate but unequal. I do not believe in aliens.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
stubs
Posts: 1,887
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 1:09:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I would say that I don't believe in alien life simply because I don't see the evidence for it convincing in the least to be quite honest.

Biblical answer:
Genesis account seems to be describing our earth, and I don't see any real biblical text that points to any sort of other life than ours. I have never heard a sermon done on the topic so good luck with it.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 1:40:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 1:09:04 PM, stubs wrote:
I would say that I don't believe in alien life simply because I don't see the evidence for it convincing in the least to be quite honest.

Biblical answer:
Genesis account seems to be describing our earth, and I don't see any real biblical text that points to any sort of other life than ours. I have never heard a sermon done on the topic so good luck with it.

Sons of God. Genesis chapter 6. The entire promised land beofre the Israelites took it.
TheAsylum
stubs
Posts: 1,887
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
5/28/2012 1:50:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/28/2012 1:40:52 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:

Sons of God. Genesis chapter 6. The entire promised land beofre the Israelites took it.

Yeah I meant like aliens from other planets. While that is one interpretation of Gen 6 I don't think I hold to it.