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Evidence is not important!

drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/29/2012 12:43:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Do you have any thoughts on the matter? I'm not on a debate site to argue with videos which cannot respond themselves.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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5/29/2012 12:48:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1st video: 2,005 likes, 20,288 dislikes
2nd video: 162 likes, 1,679 dislikes
3rd video: 219 likes, 1,315 dislikes

I watched the videos, and the like and dislikes make sense.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Meatros
Posts: 1,075
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5/29/2012 12:54:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
First Vid:
His question isn't really all that difficult: There is no evidence in favor of God's existence. Further, why assume that the Christian God is the 'default' God?

Second Vid:
The evidence is attainable and evidence does matter. Further, he simply presupposes the Gospels are accurate with regard to the Roman guards. I think he's just making up stuff. As to his hypothetical - it would show that Jesus was, perhaps, Supernatural.

In any event, he must not believe in people like CS Lewis.

Third Vid:
His attack on hard atheists - hard atheists make absolute claim, but there cannot be 'absolute statements', therefore there can't be hard atheists. This, of course, is nonsense. He ignores the semantic apologetics entirely, showing that he's unfamiliar with actual atheistic arguments. His view of atheists is that there are only 'scientific' atheists, not philosophical atheists. He also ignores platonic atheists and objective atheists.

In short, his spiel of absolutes is simply an assertion.

His view of soft atheists: He confuses agnosticism for atheism.

Conclusion:

I'm very unimpressed with this guy.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/29/2012 1:03:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 12:50:54 PM, tkubok wrote:
Only an intellectually vapid retard would like these videos.

It really shows our intellectual abilities when we resort to name calling.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/29/2012 1:06:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:03:59 PM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/29/2012 12:50:54 PM, tkubok wrote:
Only an intellectually vapid retard would like these videos.

It really shows our intellectual abilities when we resort to name calling.

Really? Why?
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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5/29/2012 1:07:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:06:14 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/29/2012 1:03:59 PM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/29/2012 12:50:54 PM, tkubok wrote:
Only an intellectually vapid retard would like these videos.

It really shows our intellectual abilities when we resort to name calling.

After his videos have been debunked by hundreds of people?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
caveat
Posts: 2,137
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5/29/2012 1:10:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:03:59 PM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/29/2012 12:50:54 PM, tkubok wrote:
Only an intellectually vapid retard would like these videos.

It really shows our intellectual abilities when we resort to name calling.

I've always been irked the term name-calling. It's either truth or falsehood.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. " Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
Clash
Posts: 220
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5/29/2012 1:19:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
+1 to the first video. Completely agree with him there. Indeed, if you claim that God does not exist (which is what Atheists basically do), then you have to give evidences to back that claim up. I don't see why people can disagree with this clear fact of reason.
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/29/2012 1:19:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:03:59 PM, tyler90az wrote:
At 5/29/2012 12:50:54 PM, tkubok wrote:
Only an intellectually vapid retard would like these videos.

It really shows our intellectual abilities when we resort to name calling.

The arguments presented on these videos have been disproved. Countless times. Quick 3 second google search is all it takes.

If you did not know of the existance of the counter arguments, then you are intellectually vapid. The cornerstone of an intellectually sharp person is to find out arguments and counter arguments.

If you did not, or do not google this after you saw it, to find out the counter arguments, then you are a retard. You specifically prevented yourself from progressing your intelligence further. You have delayed the progression of your mind. The very definition of being retarded.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/29/2012 1:30:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It really shows our intellectual abilities when we resort to name calling.

Really? Why?

In this situation, it is showing a lack of ability to understand different perspectives. When you give an opinion of a video it is subjective. Therefore, there is no such thing as a right or wrong, true or false opinion. It is just that an opinion. That is why to attack somebody personally, name calling, over an opinion shows a lack of intellectual ability. In addition, it shows a lack of ability to present a logical argument.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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5/29/2012 1:32:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 12:41:03 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
I watched a minute of the first video. He clearly does not understand the difference between positive and negative claims.
I find nothing wrong with the first video. If you are referring to "lack of belief in God" vs "belief that God doesn't exist," then you couldn't be more helplessly wrong.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
bossyburrito
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5/29/2012 1:32:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:30:15 PM, tyler90az wrote:
It really shows our intellectual abilities when we resort to name calling.

Really? Why?

In this situation, it is showing a lack of ability to understand different perspectives. When you give an opinion of a video it is subjective. Therefore, there is no such thing as a right or wrong, true or false opinion. It is just that an opinion. That is why to attack somebody personally, name calling, over an opinion shows a lack of intellectual ability. In addition, it shows a lack of ability to present a logical argument.



1+1=2 You are a bitch. Is that statement any less valid?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
tkubok
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5/29/2012 1:33:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:19:09 PM, Clash wrote:
+1 to the first video. Completely agree with him there. Indeed, if you claim that God does not exist (which is what Atheists basically do), then you have to give evidences to back that claim up. I don't see why people can disagree with this clear fact of reason.

There are several objections to the first video.

First off, no. When atheists ask for evidence of God, they are asking whether evidence exists that would be sufficient for THEM to believe, not just the theist. Personal evidence is as useless as someone who believes in faeries and says "I know faeries exist because a faerie princess came and told me".

Secondly, no. Atheism isnt a faith based position, because Atheism isnt a belief. Someone should tell this guy the difference between a belief and a disbelief.

Thirdly, no. You do not need evidence to claim that something does not exist. We do this all the time. You do not believe in faeries, bigfoot, the lockness monster, all of which you have no evidence for their non-existance, because you dont need evidence. The default position is that something does not exist, or is not true, until it has been demonstrated to exist. This is to prevent us from accepting or believing contradictory things.

This is why the first video fails.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/29/2012 1:36:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:30:15 PM, tyler90az wrote:
It really shows our intellectual abilities when we resort to name calling.

Really? Why?

In this situation, it is showing a lack of ability to understand different perspectives. When you give an opinion of a video it is subjective. Therefore, there is no such thing as a right or wrong, true or false opinion. It is just that an opinion. That is why to attack somebody personally, name calling, over an opinion shows a lack of intellectual ability. In addition, it shows a lack of ability to present a logical argument.

Sorry, I don't understand the connection. How do you get from "Called someone a name" to "cannot present a logical argument"?
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/29/2012 1:37:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1+1=2 You are a bitch. Is that statement any less valid?

case in point
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tkubok
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5/29/2012 1:38:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:30:15 PM, tyler90az wrote:
It really shows our intellectual abilities when we resort to name calling.

Really? Why?

In this situation, it is showing a lack of ability to understand different perspectives. When you give an opinion of a video it is subjective. Therefore, there is no such thing as a right or wrong, true or false opinion. It is just that an opinion. That is why to attack somebody personally, name calling, over an opinion shows a lack of intellectual ability. In addition, it shows a lack of ability to present a logical argument.

Well, no. If it is clearly demonstrable, then it is false. If i claim that in my opinion, he is a black african american, it is easily demonstrable that he is not.

Secondly, the video isnt simply an opinion peice. It is presenting arguments. Arguments are not opinions. Arguments are clearly right or wrong based on the counter arguments and fallacies presented within them. Im talking about the people who liked this video because they thought the arguments were valid. The arguments, are not valid, and this is easily demonstrable via a 3 second google search. Thats what were talking about, and thats all that matters.
drafterman
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5/29/2012 1:41:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:37:02 PM, tyler90az wrote:
1+1=2 You are a bitch. Is that statement any less valid?

case in point

You realize he's refuting your point, right?
tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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5/29/2012 1:45:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:33:13 PM, tkubok wrote:
First off, no. When atheists ask for evidence of God, they are asking whether evidence exists that would be sufficient for THEM to believe, not just the theist. Personal evidence is as useless as someone who believes in faeries and says "I know faeries exist because a faerie princess came and told me".
I agree that "personal" evidence isn't enough.

Secondly, no. Atheism isnt a faith based position, because Atheism isnt a belief. Someone should tell this guy the difference between a belief and a disbelief.
Completely and utterly false. Atheism is a declaration of belief: the belief that God does not exist. A "disbelief" is believing in the opposite of something.

Thirdly, no. You do not need evidence to claim that something does not exist. We do this all the time. You do not believe in faeries, bigfoot, the lockness monster, all of which you have no evidence for their non-existance, because you dont need evidence. The default position is that something does not exist, or is not true, until it has been demonstrated to exist. This is to prevent us from accepting or believing contradictory things.
Agreed.

This is why the first video fails.

**********************

At 5/29/2012 1:32:36 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
1+1=2 You are a bitch. Is that statement any less valid?

That's 2 statements, btw.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/29/2012 1:47:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
In this situation, it is showing a lack of ability to understand different perspectives. When you give an opinion of a video it is subjective. Therefore, there is no such thing as a right or wrong, true or false opinion. It is just that an opinion. That is why to attack somebody personally, name calling, over an opinion shows a lack of intellectual ability. In addition, it shows a lack of ability to present a logical argument.

Sorry, I don't understand the connection. How do you get from "Called someone a name" to "cannot present a logical argument"?

You are only rebutting the second half of my statement. That leads me to believe you have no objection to the first.

2nd half:
Why would you use such easy words if you have a more logical argument? The simple fact, from true observation, is that a person usually doesn't have a good argument. That in tun means you can't present a logical argument.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tyler90az
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5/29/2012 1:49:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:41:14 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/29/2012 1:37:02 PM, tyler90az wrote:
1+1=2 You are a bitch. Is that statement any less valid?

case in point

You realize he's refuting your point, right?

You are completely missing my point. If you think about it for a minute you might get it.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
royalpaladin
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5/29/2012 1:54:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:32:03 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 5/29/2012 12:41:03 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
I watched a minute of the first video. He clearly does not understand the difference between positive and negative claims.
I find nothing wrong with the first video. If you are referring to "lack of belief in God" vs "belief that God doesn't exist," then you couldn't be more helplessly wrong.

His first video is nonsensical. The burden of proof is on those who make positive claims. It is impossible to prove that something does not exist. Don't believe me? Prove that fairies do not exist.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/29/2012 1:54:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:47:26 PM, tyler90az wrote:
In this situation, it is showing a lack of ability to understand different perspectives. When you give an opinion of a video it is subjective. Therefore, there is no such thing as a right or wrong, true or false opinion. It is just that an opinion. That is why to attack somebody personally, name calling, over an opinion shows a lack of intellectual ability. In addition, it shows a lack of ability to present a logical argument.

Sorry, I don't understand the connection. How do you get from "Called someone a name" to "cannot present a logical argument"?

You are only rebutting the second half of my statement. That leads me to believe you have no objection to the first.

I do, but I am trying to keep things simple here.


2nd half:
Why would you use such easy words if you have a more logical argument?

Maybe the person feels the logical argument would be wasted given the available audience. Maybe they have an argument, but find argumentation boring and insulting people enjoyable. This doesn't mean they are unable to present an argument, just unwilling. Since there are reasons why a person would willingly choose insults over arguments, you cannot conclude that, if they choose to insult, therefore they have no argument.

The simple fact, from true observation, is that a person usually doesn't have a good argument. That in tun means you can't present a logical argument.

At this point you've already concedede. Your statement wasn't one of statistics, but of absolutes. There is really no point in debating what you claim are your observations, as you can claim them to be whatever you need them to be to support a conclusion, so this is merely a black hole.

If you wish to stand by your original statement, then let's talk.
Rusty
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5/29/2012 1:57:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:54:04 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 5/29/2012 1:32:03 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 5/29/2012 12:41:03 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
I watched a minute of the first video. He clearly does not understand the difference between positive and negative claims.
I find nothing wrong with the first video. If you are referring to "lack of belief in God" vs "belief that God doesn't exist," then you couldn't be more helplessly wrong.

His first video is nonsensical. The burden of proof is on those who make positive claims. It is impossible to prove that something does not exist. Don't believe me? Prove that fairies do not exist.

I've wondered this for a while: can't almost any statement be worded as a positive or a negative claim?
bossyburrito
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5/29/2012 1:58:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:47:26 PM, tyler90az wrote:
In this situation, it is showing a lack of ability to understand different perspectives. When you give an opinion of a video it is subjective. Therefore, there is no such thing as a right or wrong, true or false opinion. It is just that an opinion. That is why to attack somebody personally, name calling, over an opinion shows a lack of intellectual ability. In addition, it shows a lack of ability to present a logical argument.

Sorry, I don't understand the connection. How do you get from "Called someone a name" to "cannot present a logical argument"?

You are only rebutting the second half of my statement. That leads me to believe you have no objection to the first.

2nd half:
Why would you use such easy words if you have a more logical argument? The simple fact, from true observation, is that a person usually doesn't have a good argument. That in tun means you can't present a logical argument.

The videos have already been debunked THOUSANDS OF TIMES. I breath air, Bitch.

(BTW i am only using ad homs to prove a point.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/29/2012 2:01:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 1:38:27 PM, tkubok wrote:
At 5/29/2012 1:30:15 PM, tyler90az wrote:
It really shows our intellectual abilities when we resort to name calling.

Really? Why?

In this situation, it is showing a lack of ability to understand different perspectives. When you give an opinion of a video it is subjective. Therefore, there is no such thing as a right or wrong, true or false opinion. It is just that an opinion. That is why to attack somebody personally, name calling, over an opinion shows a lack of intellectual ability. In addition, it shows a lack of ability to present a logical argument.

Well, no. If it is clearly demonstrable, then it is false. If i claim that in my opinion, he is a black african american, it is easily demonstrable that he is not.

An opinion, by definition, is something that is not demonstrable. What you are referring to is a fact. To say that a persons view of a video is fact, is false. Which is what you did when you attacked people who liked the video by saying they are retarded. You did not attack a fact, you attacked an opinion.

Secondly, the video isnt simply an opinion peice. It is presenting arguments. Arguments are not opinions. Arguments are clearly right or wrong based on the counter arguments and fallacies presented within them. Im talking about the people who liked this video because they thought the arguments were valid. The arguments, are not valid, and this is easily demonstrable via a 3 second google search. Thats what were talking about, and thats all that matters.

I did not watch the videos, so honestly I don't know if they are fact or not. Nonetheless, it doesn't look to great when you start personally attacking someone. Also maybe, if you don't have the willpower to resist name calling, be clear on who you are talking about. You simply said who ever liked the video is retarded... Which is attacking an opinion...
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
tyler90az
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5/29/2012 2:05:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If you wish to stand by your original statement, then let's talk.

My original statement was the first half of the post we are discussing. The one you have decided to dance around. The second part of my post was something I decided to add in. The statement would actually go towards you... Ask yourself, am I ready to talk?
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
drafterman
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5/29/2012 2:06:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 2:05:07 PM, tyler90az wrote:
If you wish to stand by your original statement, then let's talk.

My original statement was the first half of the post we are discussing. The one you have decided to dance around. The second part of my post was something I decided to add in. The statement would actually go towards you... Ask yourself, am I ready to talk?

Demonstrate that name-claling is indicative of a lack of intellectual ability.