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God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

GreatestIam
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5/29/2012 3:18:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

Omnipotent is defined in part as having power or authority without limits IOW, almighty.

Seems to me that God has a few limits.

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.
He could not create a heaven without Satan.
He could not create Eden without evil in it.
He cannot control wayward demons or devils.
He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.
He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.
He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.
Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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5/29/2012 3:22:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:18:28 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

Omnipotent is defined in part as having power or authority without limits IOW, almighty.

Seems to me that God has a few limits.

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.
He could not create a heaven without Satan.
He could not create Eden without evil in it.
He cannot control wayward demons or devils.
He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.
He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.
He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.
Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL

Who says an omnipotent God could not do any of those things?
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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5/29/2012 3:29:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Also, I think God has extremely poor communication skills. The Judea-Christian God's message has been interpreted to mean many many things and their are many many different churches worshiping this God with different beliefs. In fact, almost everyone has a different view of this God even if the differences are subtle. God did a very very poor job explaining his message. Add "communicate effectively to that list. God cannot communicate effectively.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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5/29/2012 3:45:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:18:28 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

Omnipotent is defined in part as having power or authority without limits IOW, almighty.

Seems to me that God has a few limits.

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.
He could not create a heaven without Satan.
He could not create Eden without evil in it.
He cannot control wayward demons or devils.
He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.
He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.
He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.
Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL

This is misinterpretation by YOU! Not God's problem or christians. Why do not you listen to someone who knows the Bible, instead of thinking YOU do. You rely on a person who sticks by the Bible with faith regardless any claims by anyone or anything. The Bible says this is required to be a true follower. You must have faith and belief first then proof will be shown. All the things you posted is not true so therefore it is unworthy of answering fully intel you understand the Bible better or take the interpretation from someone who follows God.

He cannot reproduce true.
Obv. He created all things. Therefore he reproduced.

He cannot enjoy sex.
Why should He?

He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He created all species, so this statement makes no sense.

He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.
So Jesus was a mutant?

He could not create a heaven without Satan.
Why is this so?

He could not create Eden without evil in it.
Again nosense made.

He cannot control wayward demons or devils.
Again stupidity

He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.
Where?

He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.
He most certainly does and can. Where is the proof of this?

He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.
So no one went to heaven or was righteous before Jesus?

He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.
Again untrue. Jesus is God. The same OT God. God chose to be manifest in the flesh to be sacrificed to cleanse all of sin. This stops men from sacrificing. Thereofre all you need is faith, belief, and repentance.
Study better!
TheAsylum
twocupcakes
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5/29/2012 3:53:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ohh, you can also add "perform miracles since modern recording equipment/technology was developed". It seems that God was very active in performing miracles a long time ago. However, since modern cameras/science were invented to test these miracles, God stopped performing them. It seems that God cannot perform miracles if humans have the ability to validate them. You can add "perform miracles that can be validated by science or cameras" to the list also!
Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/29/2012 5:32:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:53:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Ohh, you can also add "perform miracles since modern recording equipment/technology was developed". It seems that God was very active in performing miracles a long time ago. However, since modern cameras/science were invented to test these miracles, God stopped performing them. It seems that God cannot perform miracles if humans have the ability to validate them. You can add "perform miracles that can be validated by science or cameras" to the list also!

Nonperformance does not necessarily mean inability.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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5/29/2012 6:28:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 5:32:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/29/2012 3:53:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:


Nonperformance does not necessarily mean inability.

True. But generally in my experience does. Often people have claimed to be able to do amazing things, and I ask them to show me and they either don't attempt it, or can't do it. I wonder, does God just crack under the pressure of cameras? Not able to do it? Or, chooses not to? From my experience, it seems to be one of the first two options.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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5/29/2012 6:55:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:18:28 PM, GreatestIam wrote:

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.

Actually he can. Jesus is God and man and thus had biological functions. If he wished to engage in these actions, he could have.

He could not create a heaven without Satan.

Heaven existed before the fall of the devils

He could not create Eden without evil in it.

What do you mean by this? God did not create evil. The basic theological definition of evil is the absence of God.

He cannot control wayward demons or devils.

He promised that he would not infringe on the free will of his creation. God, being all good, does not lie.

He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.

Where? Substantiate your claims if you want to be taken seriously.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.

He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.

Your statement ignores free will of humanity. Heaven and hell are states of being that arise as the results of the choices in your life. God, having promised that he will not infringe on free will.

He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.

Who is to say that he couldn't? He simply chose this method.

Who is to say that couldn't. Choosing one method does not mean he couldn't have chosen others. It simply means he used one method.

Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL

Many of the limits you perceive has to do with choices and actions that God took. But just because he undertaken one action does not mean that the other were not available to him.

in general, your arguments strawman the Christian concept of omnipotence. Omnipotence is not the power to do all things. Omnipotence is the power to do all things not intrisnically impossible. This means that God cannot create contradicitions. God cannot do the ungodly, because it is contradictory.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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5/29/2012 7:01:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 6:28:19 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 5/29/2012 5:32:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/29/2012 3:53:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:


Nonperformance does not necessarily mean inability.

True. But generally in my experience does. Often people have claimed to be able to do amazing things, and I ask them to show me and they either don't attempt it, or can't do it. I wonder, does God just crack under the pressure of cameras? Not able to do it? Or, chooses not to? From my experience, it seems to be one of the first two options.

No! He only does what full his will. When you pray or do for God, you are doing it for God not yourself. Like I, I have recieved forgiveness and eternal life. This does not mean I do not recieve them same wrath as my generation in this life. I am a American. I will recieve them same wrath as America will recieve. But in the next life I am forgiven and will reign with Christ or YHWH, they are one and the same.
TheAsylum
Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/29/2012 7:06:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 6:28:19 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 5/29/2012 5:32:15 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:
At 5/29/2012 3:53:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:


Nonperformance does not necessarily mean inability.

True. But generally in my experience does. Often people have claimed to be able to do amazing things, and I ask them to show me and they either don't attempt it, or can't do it. I wonder, does God just crack under the pressure of cameras? Not able to do it? Or, chooses not to? From my experience, it seems to be one of the first two options.

You are anthropomorphizing an omnipotent deity, resulting in a misleading conclusion. Omnipotence is structured with "omni-" (all) and "-potence" (potency -> power), meaning "all power," and its adjective form, "omnipotent" means "all powerful."

Since we are analyzing a deity predetermined to be omnipotent, at least for this discussion, it is misleading to use evidence that shows he did not perform something, when the characteristic of omnipotence clearly gives him the ability to perform, regardless of the absence of performance.

If we were discussing whether or not a human could perform miracles, of course evidence of his performance would be relevant. However, if we were discussing whether or not an omnipotent human could perform miracles, and for the discussion the human was predetermined to be omnipotent, then the evidence would be unnecessary and irrelevant as the characteristic of omnipotence automatically gives him the ability.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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5/29/2012 7:23:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:29:47 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Also, I think God has extremely poor communication skills. The Judea-Christian God's message has been interpreted to mean many many things and their are many many different churches worshiping this God with different beliefs. In fact, almost everyone has a different view of this God even if the differences are subtle. God did a very very poor job explaining his message. Add "communicate effectively to that list. God cannot communicate effectively.

Maybe you have understanding skills.
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
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5/29/2012 7:24:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 7:23:21 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 5/29/2012 3:29:47 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Also, I think God has extremely poor communication skills. The Judea-Christian God's message has been interpreted to mean many many things and their are many many different churches worshiping this God with different beliefs. In fact, almost everyone has a different view of this God even if the differences are subtle. God did a very very poor job explaining his message. Add "communicate effectively to that list. God cannot communicate effectively.

Maybe you have understanding skills.
Maybe you have poor understanding skills.
TheAsylum
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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5/29/2012 8:17:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 7:24:33 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 5/29/2012 7:23:21 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 5/29/2012 3:29:47 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Also, I think God has extremely poor communication skills. The Judea-Christian God's message has been interpreted to mean many many things and their are many many different churches worshiping this God with different beliefs. In fact, almost everyone has a different view of this God even if the differences are subtle. God did a very very poor job explaining his message. Add "communicate effectively to that list. God cannot communicate effectively.

Maybe you have understanding skills.
Maybe you have poor understanding skills

Maybe God is bad is creating people with good "understanding skills"? We can add "creating people with good understanding skills" to the list.

Every religious person believes they "have it right". Everyone believes their God is the right one. Everyone claims that they "understand" their God. It is impossible to tell which God has it right. If someone does have it right, it is by random chance. Also, every single religious person has a different interpretation of God(even if it is a subtle difference). So, out of all the billions of people in the world you believe you have it right, and everyone else is wrong? You are the only person in the world with "understanding skills"?
Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/29/2012 8:29:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 8:17:43 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 5/29/2012 7:24:33 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 5/29/2012 7:23:21 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 5/29/2012 3:29:47 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Also, I think God has extremely poor communication skills. The Judea-Christian God's message has been interpreted to mean many many things and their are many many different churches worshiping this God with different beliefs. In fact, almost everyone has a different view of this God even if the differences are subtle. God did a very very poor job explaining his message. Add "communicate effectively to that list. God cannot communicate effectively.

Maybe you have understanding skills.
Maybe you have poor understanding skills

Maybe God is bad is creating people with good "understanding skills"? We can add "creating people with good understanding skills" to the list.

Every religious person believes they "have it right". Everyone believes their God is the right one. Everyone claims that they "understand" their God. It is impossible to tell which God has it right. If someone does have it right, it is by random chance. Also, every single religious person has a different interpretation of God(even if it is a subtle difference). So, out of all the billions of people in the world you believe you have it right, and everyone else is wrong? You are the only person in the world with "understanding skills"?

You obviously can't make the distinction between ability and performance.

If God has not performed the creation of "people with good understanding skills," this does not mean God has not the ability to perform the creation of "people with good understanding skills."

Once again, omnipotence refers to the ability to do all things, not the performance of all things.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,750
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5/29/2012 9:41:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago

You obviously can't make the distinction between ability and performance.

If God has not performed the creation of "people with good understanding skills," this does not mean God has not the ability to perform the creation of "people with good understanding skills."

Once again, omnipotence refers to the ability to do all things, not the performance of all things.

God wants people to know about him, his rules, ect.? God and his rules are very unclear. To correct this, God can either communicate better, or create people that "understand" better. So, God either cannot perform these actions, or does not want people to know about him. If God wants people to know about him( I am assuming you think he does), then we can add those actions to the list.
WeAreButler
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5/30/2012 1:17:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 8:17:43 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
At 5/29/2012 7:24:33 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 5/29/2012 7:23:21 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 5/29/2012 3:29:47 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Also, I think God has extremely poor communication skills. The Judea-Christian God's message has been interpreted to mean many many things and their are many many different churches worshiping this God with different beliefs. In fact, almost everyone has a different view of this God even if the differences are subtle. God did a very very poor job explaining his message. Add "communicate effectively to that list. God cannot communicate effectively.

Maybe you have understanding skills.
Maybe you have poor understanding skills

Maybe God is bad is creating people with good "understanding skills"? We can add "creating people with good understanding skills" to the list.

Every religious person believes they "have it right". Everyone believes their God is the right one. Everyone claims that they "understand" their God. It is impossible to tell which God has it right. If someone does have it right, it is by random chance. Also, every single religious person has a different interpretation of God(even if it is a subtle difference). So, out of all the billions of people in the world you believe you have it right, and everyone else is wrong? You are the only person in the world with "understanding skills"?

Correct. On every religious path, there are people telling you are doing the right thing. You are correct in everything you said so far, I applaud you.
Relativity is beautiful, isn't it?

I believe I have it right, though I also understand my truth, is only truth to me -- my variables -- my information/experiences. As logic is a constant, yet information is not.

In the context of Christianity, I will say that God articulates perfectly. I am a Christian. I will forewarn -- not by logical deduction, but by faith -- by interpretation -- by choice -- by God's grace.
God is perfect.
You are worthless, I am worthless. We have sinned.
God is not obligated to perform miracles to entertain you, and get your attention.
You have failed. We all have failed. That is the end of the story. We are undeserving.
We do not deserve miracles. We do not deserve life. We deserve Hell.

God needs not prove Himself, as you have already chosen. I know this sounds like rubbish, and perhaps it is -- yet it is logically sound -- though almost every theory can be logically sound, and I UNDERSTAND this.
I am just here to tell you, that Christianity makes sense. Everything makes sense, and can be validated through definitions in whatever way you wish.
Truth is circular, and this disturbs many people -- yet it's true :).

Best Wishes. Based on your posts, I believe you have already found "your truth". Nonetheless, have a great day.
We Are Butler
Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/30/2012 4:47:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 9:41:31 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

You obviously can't make the distinction between ability and performance.

If God has not performed the creation of "people with good understanding skills," this does not mean God has not the ability to perform the creation of "people with good understanding skills."

Once again, omnipotence refers to the ability to do all things, not the performance of all things.

God wants people to know about him, his rules, ect.? God and his rules are very unclear. To correct this, God can either communicate better, or create people that "understand" better. So, God either cannot perform these actions, or does not want people to know about him. If God wants people to know about him( I am assuming you think he does), then we can add those actions to the list.

Alright, I'll say this one more time: performance is not equivalent to ability, so nonperformance is not equivalent to inability.

This is so obvious in everyday life. I take it that you are not planning to change your profile picture to a giraffe in the near future. You will not perform this picture change. However, this nonperformance of a picture change does not mean you never or do not have the ability to change your picture.

Because omnipotence establishes that the deity in question has the ability to do all, any evidence that the deity has not performed these abilities is irrelevant, because once again ability does not necessarily require performance to prove ability.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Nur-Ab-Sal
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5/30/2012 4:48:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 9:41:31 PM, twocupcakes wrote:

You obviously can't make the distinction between ability and performance.

If God has not performed the creation of "people with good understanding skills," this does not mean God has not the ability to perform the creation of "people with good understanding skills."

Once again, omnipotence refers to the ability to do all things, not the performance of all things.

God wants people to know about him, his rules, ect.? God and his rules are very unclear. To correct this, God can either communicate better, or create people that "understand" better. So, God either cannot perform these actions, or does not want people to know about him. If God wants people to know about him( I am assuming you think he does), then we can add those actions to the list.

Challenge me to a debate if you wish to discuss it further.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
Clash
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5/30/2012 6:22:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:18:28 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

Omnipotent is defined in part as having power or authority without limits IOW, almighty.

Seems to me that God has a few limits.

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.
He could not create a heaven without Satan.
He could not create Eden without evil in it.
He cannot control wayward demons or devils.
He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.
He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice
He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.
Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL

You have certainly misunderstood what it really means to be omnipotent. omnipotence implies the ability to actualise every affair, so God being able to do some (I'm saying some because not everything in that list is something which God cannot do) of the things which you have listed actually describes an affair that is impossible and meaningless. You must also understand that failure and absurdity is not an aspect of omnipotence. Thus, saying that God has limits and cannot do everything, is illogical and nothing more than a failure.

Moreover, if the bible for example really says that God could not create Eden without evil in it, or cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice, then that only means that the bible and it's understanding of God is absurd, nothing more.
GreatestIam
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5/30/2012 6:59:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:22:09 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:


Who says an omnipotent God could not do any of those things?

An omnipotent God could.

The Christian God cannot.
Proof is in the doing. If God does not, then he does not deserve the label.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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5/30/2012 7:00:29 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:29:47 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Also, I think God has extremely poor communication skills. The Judea-Christian God's message has been interpreted to mean many many things and their are many many different churches worshiping this God with different beliefs. In fact, almost everyone has a different view of this God even if the differences are subtle. God did a very very poor job explaining his message. Add "communicate effectively to that list. God cannot communicate effectively.

Good point for sure.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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5/30/2012 7:31:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:45:37 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:


This is misinterpretation by YOU! Not God's problem or christians. Why do not you listen to someone who knows the Bible,

Which of the many sects has the right interpretation?

instead of thinking YOU do. You rely on a person who sticks by the Bible

All who stick to their Godinabook are idol worshipers like you.

with faith regardless any claims by anyone or anything. The Bible says this is required to be a true follower. You must have faith and belief first then proof will be shown. All the things you posted is not true so therefore it is unworthy of answering fully intel you understand the Bible better or take the interpretation from someone who follows God.

He cannot reproduce true.
Obv. He created all things. Therefore he reproduced.


Creating is not reproducing.


Who are his children then who are not contaminated by human DNA?

He cannot enjoy sex.
Why should He?


I do not care why. I just show a limit to what is supposed to be a limitless God.

He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He created all species, so this statement makes no sense.

Again. Creating is not reproducing.

He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.
So Jesus was a mutant?

No. A half breed chimera.

He could not create a heaven without Satan.
Why is this so?

Again, I do not care why. One must assume that if he knew what he was doing, then he wanted a Satan around. You tell me why?

He could not create Eden without evil in it.
Again nosense made.

Was Satan or an evil talking snake not in Eden?

He cannot control wayward demons or devils.
Again stupidity

Then why does he let these supernatural entities plague some of us?
Natural entities like us have no power over the supernatural.


He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.
Where?

A quick question first.
If I put a lie in someone and they pass it on, am I culpable and a liar?
If God does the same, is he a liar?
Answer this first and I will get the quotes.

Also, if God can cure just as easily as kill, and he chooses to kill, does that make him a murderer as he is taking the moral low ground?

If you can either kill or cure and you decide to kill, does that make you a murderer?


He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.
He most certainly does and can. Where is the proof of this?


Will he accept you in heaven if you do not love and obey him?

He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.
So no one went to heaven or was righteous before Jesus?


If so then a blood and Jesus sacrifice was not required as God had another way to forgive sin already in place. That would make him insane for having his son needlessly murdered.

He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.
Again untrue. Jesus is God. The same OT God. God chose to be manifest in the flesh to be sacrificed to cleanse all of sin. This stops men from sacrificing. Thereofre all you need is faith, belief, and repentance.
Study better!

I will if you start to think better.

If Jesus is God, who did he sacrifice himself to? Himself?
If so there is no loss or gain and therefore no sacrifice.

Your reply shows you to not be much of an apologist. Get better or do not expect much from me.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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5/30/2012 7:32:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:53:48 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Ohh, you can also add "perform miracles since modern recording equipment/technology was developed". It seems that God was very active in performing miracles a long time ago. However, since modern cameras/science were invented to test these miracles, God stopped performing them. It seems that God cannot perform miracles if humans have the ability to validate them. You can add "perform miracles that can be validated by science or cameras" to the list also!

For sure. Thanks.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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5/30/2012 7:48:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 6:55:47 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 5/29/2012 3:18:28 PM, GreatestIam wrote:

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.

Actually he can. Jesus is God and man and thus had biological functions. If he wished to engage in these actions, he could have.

He could not create a heaven without Satan.

Heaven existed before the fall of the devils

He could not create Eden without evil in it.

What do you mean by this? God did not create evil. The basic theological definition of evil is the absence of God.

He cannot control wayward demons or devils.

He promised that he would not infringe on the free will of his creation. God, being all good, does not lie.

He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.

Where? Substantiate your claims if you want to be taken seriously.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.


He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.

Your statement ignores free will of humanity. Heaven and hell are states of being that arise as the results of the choices in your life. God, having promised that he will not infringe on free will.

He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.

Who is to say that he couldn't? He simply chose this method.

Who is to say that couldn't. Choosing one method does not mean he couldn't have chosen others. It simply means he used one method.

Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL

Many of the limits you perceive has to do with choices and actions that God took. But just because he undertaken one action does not mean that the other were not available to him.

in general, your arguments strawman the Christian concept of omnipotence. Omnipotence is not the power to do all things. Omnipotence is the power to do all things not intrisnically impossible. This means that God cannot create contradicitions. God cannot do the ungodly, because it is contradictory.

I spoke just above on God and lies.
Answer the question posed there and I will be happy to oblige.

Most of your other issues center on God not touching man's free will yet scriptures show clearly God ignoring our free will to live every time he kills any of us.

That is ignoring our free will. Right?

As to his having Jesus killed. You say he had other options.
If so, would he not use one?
Would you have your son killed if you had other options?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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5/30/2012 7:57:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 8:29:01 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:


Once again, omnipotence refers to the ability to do all things, not the performance of all things.

How is that ability shown if not by performing the task?
And if un-shown, why put that ability and label on some entity?

Proof is in the doing or it is just bragging about an ability that one does not have.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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5/30/2012 8:05:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 6:22:59 AM, Clash wrote:


You have certainly misunderstood what it really means to be omnipotent. omnipotence implies the ability to actualise every affair, so God being able to do some (I'm saying some because not everything in that list is something which God cannot do) of the things which you have listed actually describes an affair that is impossible and meaningless. You must also understand that failure and absurdity is not an aspect of omnipotence. Thus, saying that God has limits and cannot do everything, is illogical and nothing more than a failure.

Moreover, if the bible for example really says that God could not create Eden without evil in it, or cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice, then that only means that the bible and it's understanding of God is absurd, nothing more.

I agree that the bible is absurd if read literally.

As to omnipotence, I am using the usual definition.

Regards
DL
s-anthony
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5/30/2012 10:42:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
He could not save millions, if not billions, of people who were born and raised outside of Judeo-Christian traditions through no fault of their own.
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/30/2012 1:44:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 3:18:28 PM, GreatestIam wrote:
God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

Omnipotent is defined in part as having power or authority without limits IOW, almighty.

Seems to me that God has a few limits.

Let's look at some of these.

He cannot reproduce true.

He produced the Universe, didn't he?

He cannot enjoy sex.

To enjoy something is a chemical imbalance in the human brain. God created enjoyment.

He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.

He produced a huge Universe. That not enough for you?

He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.

He produces whatever is in his plan to produce.

He could not create a heaven without Satan.

Why not?

He could not create Eden without evil in it.

He created Adam and Eve and gave them free will. Evil is a creation of man to turn away from God. God simply gave mankind the capability to do so.

He cannot control wayward demons or devils.

Who says he can't?

He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.

If you read the Old Testament, which is a questionable set of works that probably doesn't usually reflect what God was actually doing.

He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.

Who says?

He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.

Who says he can't? He simply tells it like it is that sin will not enter.

He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.

Mixing up "could not" and "would not" is logical fallacy.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

He has no limits. What he does have is a perfect plan. To say his plan is imperfect is to know how it ends. Since you do not have this knowledge, you speak from a position of ignorance.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
Nur-Ab-Sal
Posts: 1,637
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5/30/2012 2:32:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 6:59:22 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 5/29/2012 3:22:09 PM, Nur-Ab-Sal wrote:


Who says an omnipotent God could not do any of those things?

An omnipotent God could.

The Christian God cannot.
Proof is in the doing. If God does not, then he does not deserve the label.

Regards
DL

See my conversation with twocupcakes. Performance is not equivalent to ability.
Genesis I. And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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5/30/2012 7:21:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 7:48:45 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
At 5/29/2012 6:55:47 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 5/29/2012 3:18:28 PM, GreatestIam wrote:

He cannot reproduce true.
He cannot enjoy sex.
He cannot reproduce without bestiality or cross species breeding.
He can only reproduce half breed chimeras like Jesus.

Actually he can. Jesus is God and man and thus had biological functions. If he wished to engage in these actions, he could have.

He could not create a heaven without Satan.

Heaven existed before the fall of the devils

He could not create Eden without evil in it.

What do you mean by this? God did not create evil. The basic theological definition of evil is the absence of God.

He cannot control wayward demons or devils.

He promised that he would not infringe on the free will of his creation. God, being all good, does not lie.

He cannot sin, although scripture says he does.

Where? Substantiate your claims if you want to be taken seriously.
He cannot live without needs like adoration, honour, obedience, love.


He cannot accept a soul into heaven without us accepting Jesus and human sacrifice.

Your statement ignores free will of humanity. Heaven and hell are states of being that arise as the results of the choices in your life. God, having promised that he will not infringe on free will.

He could not forgive sin without having Jesus sacrificed.

Who is to say that he couldn't? He simply chose this method.

Who is to say that couldn't. Choosing one method does not mean he couldn't have chosen others. It simply means he used one method.

Feel free to add to this list.

How then can Christians say that God omnipotent, all-powerful and without limits when he clearly has many?

Regards
DL

Many of the limits you perceive has to do with choices and actions that God took. But just because he undertaken one action does not mean that the other were not available to him.

in general, your arguments strawman the Christian concept of omnipotence. Omnipotence is not the power to do all things. Omnipotence is the power to do all things not intrisnically impossible. This means that God cannot create contradicitions. God cannot do the ungodly, because it is contradictory.

I spoke just above on God and lies.
Answer the question posed there and I will be happy to oblige.

You created percieved limits and I proved to you that they are not. Ignore or attempt to refute. I do not care.

Most of your other issues center on God not touching man's free will yet scriptures show clearly God ignoring our free will to live every time he kills any of us.

That is ignoring our free will. Right?

No. Free will is the ability to make decisions and choose an outcome. It is not the right to choose an ends for ourselves

As to his having Jesus killed. You say he had other options.
If so, would he not use one?
Would you have your son killed if you had other options?

Okay I just read several articles about the subject and I think I can adequately respond to your assertions.

God is a perfect moral agent who created law and order. Every wrong doing must be met with punishment, because law has no meaning if there is no punishment. Thus we are completely separated from God and his grace as a result of our sins.

Jesus had to die for our sins because God must respond to and punish every evil. Jesus, came down from heaven as God and man. Humans, being stained by Original Sin, cannot undo offenses against God. However God can. Jesus, being God, came to fulfill the law and thus offer us the opprotunity for salvation.

Here is a link that provides the complete case and Biblical evidence for my statements.

Regards
DL
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.