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God is not Infinitely Powerful

Ren
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5/29/2012 9:46:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
or all-knowing, according to the Bible.

In fact, God is quite fallible. Just a lot more powerful than us when we don't work together.

If we were to eat from the Tree of Life and become immortal, we'd be God's equal.
SuburbiaSurvivor
Posts: 872
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5/29/2012 10:03:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 9:46:49 PM, Ren wrote:
or all-knowing, according to the Bible.

In fact, God is quite fallible. Just a lot more powerful than us when we don't work together.

If we were to eat from the Tree of Life and become immortal, we'd be God's equal.

lolwut?
"I'm going to tell you something that you're never going to forget, SuburbiaSurvivor. Women... Are just human beings"
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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5/29/2012 10:04:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:03:55 PM, SuburbiaSurvivor wrote:
At 5/29/2012 9:46:49 PM, Ren wrote:
or all-knowing, according to the Bible.

In fact, God is quite fallible. Just a lot more powerful than us when we don't work together.

If we were to eat from the Tree of Life and become immortal, we'd be God's equal.

lolwut?
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Ren
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5/29/2012 10:09:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
No?

Okay.

Genesis 2:22: The LORD GOD said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever--"

And then He drove out man.

Orrrrr...

Genesis 11:5: "And the LORD GOD came down to see the city and the tower, which the sons of men had built. 6. And the LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what hey will do; and nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them."

Orrrr...

Genesis 6:7: "So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created form the face of the ground, man and beast, and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

...I mean... how can you regret if you already knew what was going to happen?

But, that's already besides the point.

In the very first book of the Bible, God says twice that we're just like him, and separate only by our mortality and incapacity to cooperate.
EvanK
Posts: 599
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5/29/2012 10:09:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:04:33 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 5/29/2012 10:03:55 PM, SuburbiaSurvivor wrote:
At 5/29/2012 9:46:49 PM, Ren wrote:
or all-knowing, according to the Bible.

In fact, God is quite fallible. Just a lot more powerful than us when we don't work together.

If we were to eat from the Tree of Life and become immortal, we'd be God's equal.

lolwut?
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
Ren
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5/29/2012 10:17:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Like, what's going on in the 18th chapter of Genesis, when God appears as three men to Abraham?

And Abraham tries to feed him, etc, and God is like, I'm going to give you a kid.

And, Abraham's wife giggles, because she's like, "oh snap, as old as I am, am I gonna get some sex??" (this is literally what it says she thinks). She's like, "shall I have pleasure?" Direct quote.

And, God get's pissed off at her, misunderstanding why she laughed. He questions her, and she lies because she's intimidated.

Lol, and like, God calls her on it? "you did too laugh."

Lol?
EvanK
Posts: 599
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5/29/2012 10:27:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:17:04 PM, Ren wrote:
Like, what's going on in the 18th chapter of Genesis, when God appears as three men to Abraham?

And Abraham tries to feed him, etc, and God is like, I'm going to give you a kid.

And, Abraham's wife giggles, because she's like, "oh snap, as old as I am, am I gonna get some sex??" (this is literally what it says she thinks). She's like, "shall I have pleasure?" Direct quote.

And, God get's pissed off at her, misunderstanding why she laughed. He questions her, and she lies because she's intimidated.

Lol, and like, God calls her on it? "you did too laugh."

Lol?

I don't get how this proves that God isn't infinitely powerful, but I personally don't believe all these stories in the bible to be true, for different reasons. God can do whatever he pleases, at least that's what I believe, but I don't believe he gets involved with our lifes. So God may not appear to be all powerful, but I believe it's because he doesn't get personal with anyone.

As for the Abraham thing you posted, I don't see how this disproves God's power; as a matter of fact, I don't believe that story even happened. Logically, a person at that age can't have children, at least it would be very unlikely. Why would God back then appear to people (especially at that age) and promise them children, but not now?

Please excuse me for not getting your point, but what exactly is your reasoning behind your statement that God isn't infinitely powerful? Also excuse my unorganized post, it's late :P
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/29/2012 10:27:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:17:04 PM, Ren wrote:
Like, what's going on in the 18th chapter of Genesis, when God appears as three men to Abraham?

And Abraham tries to feed him, etc, and God is like, I'm going to give you a kid.

And, Abraham's wife giggles, because she's like, "oh snap, as old as I am, am I gonna get some sex??" (this is literally what it says she thinks). She's like, "shall I have pleasure?" Direct quote.

And, God get's pissed off at her, misunderstanding why she laughed. He questions her, and she lies because she's intimidated.

Lol, and like, God calls her on it? "you did too laugh."

Lol?

I am sure glad that changed, it sounds about as spiritual as cat in the hat.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
LibertyCampbell
Posts: 288
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5/29/2012 10:29:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:17:04 PM, Ren wrote:
Like, what's going on in the 18th chapter of Genesis, when God appears as three men to Abraham?

And Abraham tries to feed him, etc, and God is like, I'm going to give you a kid.

And, Abraham's wife giggles, because she's like, "oh snap, as old as I am, am I gonna get some sex??" (this is literally what it says she thinks). She's like, "shall I have pleasure?" Direct quote.

And, God get's pissed off at her, misunderstanding why she laughed. He questions her, and she lies because she's intimidated.

Lol, and like, God calls her on it? "you did too laugh."

Lol?

Hahahaha. I don't know why this is so funny to me.
"[Society] has no vested interest in continuing to exist." -RP
EvanK
Posts: 599
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5/29/2012 10:31:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:29:49 PM, LibertyCampbell wrote:
At 5/29/2012 10:17:04 PM, Ren wrote:
Like, what's going on in the 18th chapter of Genesis, when God appears as three men to Abraham?

And Abraham tries to feed him, etc, and God is like, I'm going to give you a kid.

And, Abraham's wife giggles, because she's like, "oh snap, as old as I am, am I gonna get some sex??" (this is literally what it says she thinks). She's like, "shall I have pleasure?" Direct quote.

And, God get's pissed off at her, misunderstanding why she laughed. He questions her, and she lies because she's intimidated.

Lol, and like, God calls her on it? "you did too laugh."

Lol?

Hahahaha. I don't know why this is so funny to me.

You and me both :P
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
jat93
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5/29/2012 10:40:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:13:38 PM, Ren wrote:
Sorry, but the Church has completely bastardized the Bible, and falsified its contents.

You are by far one of the most intellectually honest theists I've ever encountered. You and popculturepooka. I agree that given the Bible God is not omnipotent nor omniscient. Prophets argue with him many times, and sometimes they win and change his mind. God changes his mind on his own accord sometimes.

I think there are also a lot of logical problems with saying God is infinitely powerful and all knowing.

Problem with saying he is all knowing:

For the standards and quality we should reasonably expect from such a product of such an author, I must quote the great atheist neuroscientist Sam Harris:

"Take a moment to imagine how good a book could be if it were written by the Creator of the universe. Such a book could contain a chapter on mathematics that, after two thousand years of continuous use, would still be the richest source of mathematical insight the earth has ever seen…

Why doesn't the Bible say anything about electricity, about DNA, or about the actual age and size of the universe? What about a cure for cancer? Millions of people are dying horribly from cancer at this very moment, many of them children. When we fully understand the biology of cancer, this understanding will surely be reducible to a few pages of text. Why aren't these pages, or anything remotely like them, found in the Bible? The Bible is a very big book. There was room for God to instruct us on how to keep slaves and sacrifice a wide variety of animals… It is genuinely amazing how ordinary a book can be and still be thought the product of omniscience." If the Bible were indeed a work of omniscience, as Harris also astutely points out, it could make specific, falsifiable predictions about human events.

But it doesn't, and in fact it seems that most Biblical ideas couldn't have been written by anyone other than someone living in the first century. I am not saying that this poses a problem to God's existence or even the bible necessarily, just that it makes the possibility of his omniscience quite dubious.

Problems with omnipotence:

a) It might sound silly, but some of God's actions seem downright inefficient given his supposed omnipotence. Consider the story of Noah's ark. The whole story is based on the idea that nearly everyone was sinful and so God had to start anew with everything. But if he had to do this, why not just make all the evil people disappear or something? Instead he makes Noah go through the whole crazy process of building a huge ark, the whole deal with the animals, and creates a flood for 40 days killing almost everyone alive. This includes doubtlessly innocent children and animals. Why go through all this crazy, intricate, inefficient stuff when he could have just snapped his godly metaphorical fingers and made all the supposedly evil people disappear.

b) Another problem with assigning these perfect characteristics, I think, is that a perfect being would have no need or wants for anything:

If this deity is as wholly perfect as theists claim – containing the aforementioned "omnis" – it is ridiculous and contradictory to suggest that such a deity also created the world. A perfect being by definition must have no need or wants for anything, or else such a being is lacking in something and thus imperfect. Creation of the universe and mankind – and certainly having a "chosen people" and commanding them to obey your every word and bring you presents in the form of animal sacrifices – entails an effort to fulfill a need or want.

God makes it quite clear that he is emotionally dependent on his chosen people. His "nostrils flare" when they sin, which usually results in some kind of mass plague through which God vents his anger (as in Numbers 11:1, where God consumes a bunch of Israelites with fire for complaining too much). Surely this sort of "emotional dependence" upon the Israelities keeping God's word as law – and the creation of those Israelites in the first place – contradicts both his omnipotence and total perfection.

So I totally agree with you that given these parts of the Bible, it is in many ways contradictory to suggest that God is infinitely powerful and all knowing.

And yet... This would seem to reject the theistic God from the POV of most theists. Simply put, to the vast majority of theists, a deity who is not omnipotent and omniscient is not God. I find it genuinely interesting that you consider yourself a Christian, and you clearly know your stuff, yet you hold that God needn't necessarily have these attributes. Very cool.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/29/2012 10:41:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:09:48 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 5/29/2012 10:04:33 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 5/29/2012 10:03:55 PM, SuburbiaSurvivor wrote:
At 5/29/2012 9:46:49 PM, Ren wrote:
or all-knowing, according to the Bible.

In fact, God is quite fallible. Just a lot more powerful than us when we don't work together.

If we were to eat from the Tree of Life and become immortal, we'd be God's equal.

lolwut?
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ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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5/29/2012 10:47:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
We as people sure like to think we know everything and will one day discover everything, lol, physically. We wont, ever. No man is or ever has been all powerful or all knowing. So how do we know what it is to be all powerful and all knowing? We can speculate but never know. Maybe the things that happen on this earth, happen first because men do these things not God, second because God set a order that He will not upset until the time He appointed for himself. This outside the understanding and thought of a human being unless you have the Holy Ghost.
TheAsylum
jat93
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5/29/2012 10:56:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:47:19 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
We as people sure like to think we know everything and will one day discover everything, lol, physically. We wont, ever. No man is or ever has been all powerful or all knowing. So how do we know what it is to be all powerful and all knowing? We can speculate but never know. Maybe the things that happen on this earth, happen first because men do these things not God, second because God set a order that He will not upset until the time He appointed for himself. This outside the understanding and thought of a human being unless you have the Holy Ghost.

It seems to me that it is the atheists/skeptics/free-thinkers/scientists/rationalists who agree that we may not know everything, and who are the first to admit that there are certain important things about the universe which we simply don't know now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the theists who claim that God revealed basically all the important stuff to them, and they believe that they have the ultimate answer to everything, because it all ultimately traces back to their God.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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5/29/2012 11:02:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:56:55 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 5/29/2012 10:47:19 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
We as people sure like to think we know everything and will one day discover everything, lol, physically. We wont, ever. No man is or ever has been all powerful or all knowing. So how do we know what it is to be all powerful and all knowing? We can speculate but never know. Maybe the things that happen on this earth, happen first because men do these things not God, second because God set a order that He will not upset until the time He appointed for himself. This outside the understanding and thought of a human being unless you have the Holy Ghost.

It seems to me that it is the atheists/skeptics/free-thinkers/scientists/rationalists who agree that we may not know everything, and who are the first to admit that there are certain important things about the universe which we simply don't know now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the theists who claim that God revealed basically all the important stuff to them, and they believe that they have the ultimate answer to everything, because it all ultimately traces back to their God.

No anyone trying to say they know everything or God showed them everything then they are liars. Even the prophets did not see and write everything in our history. They saw particular things for a certain period. They had thier own visions and inspirations. So I do not were you are coming from, I do not think anyone with a right mind can claim knowing everything. I think I is quite remarkable you mention that because science seems to claim to billions of years in the past and can look at bones and tell we have been going billions of years. This is foreshadowing exzactly what science does. Atleast we have a legit reason which is we do not know God knows and we follow him. You think man can gain Godhood, just without saying it.
TheAsylum
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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5/30/2012 2:22:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 11:02:27 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 5/29/2012 10:56:55 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 5/29/2012 10:47:19 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
We as people sure like to think we know everything and will one day discover everything, lol, physically. We wont, ever. No man is or ever has been all powerful or all knowing. So how do we know what it is to be all powerful and all knowing? We can speculate but never know. Maybe the things that happen on this earth, happen first because men do these things not God, second because God set a order that He will not upset until the time He appointed for himself. This outside the understanding and thought of a human being unless you have the Holy Ghost.

It seems to me that it is the atheists/skeptics/free-thinkers/scientists/rationalists who agree that we may not know everything, and who are the first to admit that there are certain important things about the universe which we simply don't know now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the theists who claim that God revealed basically all the important stuff to them, and they believe that they have the ultimate answer to everything, because it all ultimately traces back to their God.

No anyone trying to say they know everything or God showed them everything then they are liars. Even the prophets did not see and write everything in our history. They saw particular things for a certain period. They had thier own visions and inspirations. So I do not were you are coming from, I do not think anyone with a right mind can claim knowing everything. I think I is quite remarkable you mention that because science seems to claim to billions of years in the past and can look at bones and tell we have been going billions of years. This is foreshadowing exzactly what science does. Atleast we have a legit reason which is we do not know God knows and we follow him. You think man can gain Godhood, just without saying it.

You're asserting a Godlike capacity to be some attainment of power, when instead, it would be perfect cooperation and harmony.

At least, that's the way I see it as it's presented in the Bible.

In any case, this is less a case for the capacity of man, and more a dissolution of the church-borne conception of God, which is clearly inaccurate, according to the doctrine.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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5/30/2012 2:26:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 2:22:08 AM, Ren wrote:
At 5/29/2012 11:02:27 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 5/29/2012 10:56:55 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 5/29/2012 10:47:19 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
We as people sure like to think we know everything and will one day discover everything, lol, physically. We wont, ever. No man is or ever has been all powerful or all knowing. So how do we know what it is to be all powerful and all knowing? We can speculate but never know. Maybe the things that happen on this earth, happen first because men do these things not God, second because God set a order that He will not upset until the time He appointed for himself. This outside the understanding and thought of a human being unless you have the Holy Ghost.

It seems to me that it is the atheists/skeptics/free-thinkers/scientists/rationalists who agree that we may not know everything, and who are the first to admit that there are certain important things about the universe which we simply don't know now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the theists who claim that God revealed basically all the important stuff to them, and they believe that they have the ultimate answer to everything, because it all ultimately traces back to their God.

No anyone trying to say they know everything or God showed them everything then they are liars. Even the prophets did not see and write everything in our history. They saw particular things for a certain period. They had thier own visions and inspirations. So I do not were you are coming from, I do not think anyone with a right mind can claim knowing everything. I think I is quite remarkable you mention that because science seems to claim to billions of years in the past and can look at bones and tell we have been going billions of years. This is foreshadowing exzactly what science does. Atleast we have a legit reason which is we do not know God knows and we follow him. You think man can gain Godhood, just without saying it.

You're asserting a Godlike capacity to be some attainment of power, when instead, it would be perfect cooperation and harmony.

At least, that's the way I see it as it's presented in the Bible.

In any case, this is less a case for the capacity of man, and more a dissolution of the church-borne conception of God, which is clearly inaccurate, according to the doctrine.

Ren. Ask yourself do you really know the doctrine? Or do you know the brainwashed information feed to society?
TheAsylum
Ren
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5/30/2012 2:27:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 2:26:12 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:

Ren. Ask yourself do you really know the doctrine? Or do you know the brainwashed information feed to society?

This thread was inspired by my musings while reading the Revised Standard Version Holy Bible.
Ren
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5/30/2012 2:29:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 2:27:19 AM, Ren wrote:
At 5/30/2012 2:26:12 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:

Ren. Ask yourself do you really know the doctrine? Or do you know the brainwashed information feed to society?

This thread was inspired by my musings while reading the Revised Standard Version Holy Bible.

...in print form, leather-bound.
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/30/2012 1:48:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 10:09:35 PM, Ren wrote:
No?

Okay.

Genesis 2:22: The LORD GOD said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever--"

And then He drove out man.

Orrrrr...

Genesis 11:5: "And the LORD GOD came down to see the city and the tower, which the sons of men had built. 6. And the LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what hey will do; and nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them."

Orrrr...

Genesis 6:7: "So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created form the face of the ground, man and beast, and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

...I mean... how can you regret if you already knew what was going to happen?

But, that's already besides the point.

In the very first book of the Bible, God says twice that we're just like him, and separate only by our mortality and incapacity to cooperate.

Atheists love the Old Testament far more than Christians do. All of these things they quote from are from old scrolls that Jesus abolished thousands of years ago.

Ya'll are 2000 or so years late. Catch up.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/30/2012 2:02:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I fully believe people are capable of becoming God-like. It clearly says in the New Testament that we are to be joint heirs with Jesus Christ. Romans 8:17, " And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." Not just in the snap of our hand though, it takes work in this life and the next. In this life we are not anywhere near being a God.

The fact that we can become God-like does not negate the fact that God is all powerful. We will never supersede God in anything; if we become a God it only adds honor unto him. To say that God is not all-powerful or all-knowing shows a weakness in God. If God has weaknesses does he even classify as a God? If he does, is that a God I want to follow? That is not a God at all...
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
SuburbiaSurvivor
Posts: 872
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5/30/2012 2:19:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/29/2012 9:46:49 PM, Ren wrote:
or all-knowing, according to the Bible.

In fact, God is quite fallible. Just a lot more powerful than us when we don't work together.

If we were to eat from the Tree of Life and become immortal, we'd be God's equal.

Like God=/=Equal to God.
"I'm going to tell you something that you're never going to forget, SuburbiaSurvivor. Women... Are just human beings"
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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5/30/2012 2:21:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 2:19:59 PM, SuburbiaSurvivor wrote:
At 5/29/2012 9:46:49 PM, Ren wrote:
or all-knowing, according to the Bible.

In fact, God is quite fallible. Just a lot more powerful than us when we don't work together.

If we were to eat from the Tree of Life and become immortal, we'd be God's equal.

Like God=/=Equal to God.

Yes. And the distinction made was the Tree of Life.

Which means that we would be God's equal, cumulatively, if we were to each from the Tree of Life.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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5/30/2012 2:23:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 1:48:44 PM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
At 5/29/2012 10:09:35 PM, Ren wrote:
No?

Okay.

Genesis 2:22: The LORD GOD said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever--"

And then He drove out man.

Orrrrr...

Genesis 11:5: "And the LORD GOD came down to see the city and the tower, which the sons of men had built. 6. And the LORD said, "Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is only the beginning of what hey will do; and nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them."

Orrrr...

Genesis 6:7: "So the LORD said, "I will blot out man whom I have created form the face of the ground, man and beast, and creeping things and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them."

...I mean... how can you regret if you already knew what was going to happen?

But, that's already besides the point.

In the very first book of the Bible, God says twice that we're just like him, and separate only by our mortality and incapacity to cooperate.

Atheists love the Old Testament far more than Christians do. All of these things they quote from are from old scrolls that Jesus abolished thousands of years ago.

Ya'll are 2000 or so years late. Catch up.

First of all, I'm not an atheist.

Secondly, the Old Testament is relevant, as it sets the premise for everything in the New Testament. Without the Torah, the Christian Bible is meaningless.
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/30/2012 2:29:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Secondly, the Old Testament is relevant, as it sets the premise for everything in the New Testament. Without the Torah, the Christian Bible is meaningless.

The Law of Moses(most of Torah) was swallowed up when Jesus Christ came. Nevertheless, the Old Testament is still scripture and very valuable.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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5/30/2012 2:30:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Secondly, the Old Testament is relevant, as it sets the premise for everything in the New Testament. Without the Torah, the Christian Bible is meaningless.

Most knowledge of God comes from word of mouth. Don't forget that nearly everyone was illiterate and couldn't read. Because of this, almost everyone used verbal exchanges. This is why there are no original accounts left. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls were accounts a few generations after they happened most likely.

When God first revealed himself, people didn't even have sophisticated written languages, and little of what God said was written down until generations later.

The Old Testament is not relevant to today at all. It is an account of history which has some realities but too many exaggerations and inconsistencies to be used as even a simple guideline. It's just a great bunch of stories that can teach you a thing or two, but nothing to be taken literally.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
tyler90az
Posts: 971
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5/30/2012 2:35:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 2:30:48 PM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
Secondly, the Old Testament is relevant, as it sets the premise for everything in the New Testament. Without the Torah, the Christian Bible is meaningless.

Most knowledge of God comes from word of mouth. Don't forget that nearly everyone was illiterate and couldn't read. Because of this, almost everyone used verbal exchanges. This is why there are no original accounts left. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls were accounts a few generations after they happened most likely.

When God first revealed himself, people didn't even have sophisticated written languages, and little of what God said was written down until generations later.

Like!

The Old Testament is not relevant to today at all. It is an account of history which has some realities but too many exaggerations and inconsistencies to be used as even a simple guideline. It's just a great bunch of stories that can teach you a thing or two, but nothing to be taken literally.

The lessons of the Bible transcend any time period.
Today we begin in earnest the work of making sure that the world we leave our children is just a little bit better than the one we inhabit today. - President Obama
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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5/30/2012 2:36:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 2:29:51 PM, tyler90az wrote:
Secondly, the Old Testament is relevant, as it sets the premise for everything in the New Testament. Without the Torah, the Christian Bible is meaningless.

The Law of Moses(most of Torah) was swallowed up when Jesus Christ came. Nevertheless, the Old Testament is still scripture and very valuable.

I always found it strange that many Christians seem to select some OT verses to consider relevant and binding - like the verse in Leviticus that calls gay sex an abomination - yet they discard verses that say those who do any kind of work on the sabbath must be killed, or verses that say the sabbath is on saturday not sunday, or verses that say you can't trim the hair around your temples, or verses that say touching the skin of a dead pig makes you unclean, or verses that forbid you to come into contact with a woman who is menstruating, or verses that forbid you to wear any garment with two different kinds of thread....

The OT's laws are either binding or they're not. Jesus incidentally said that every jot and tittle, every iota of the law must be followed, and nobody can not do so and enter the kingdom of heaven. And if it's so common for Christians to justify their hatred of homosexuality with verses from the bible, I don't understand how they so easily write off all or most of the prohibitions I listed above...
SuburbiaSurvivor
Posts: 872
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5/30/2012 3:23:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/30/2012 2:21:52 PM, Ren wrote:
At 5/30/2012 2:19:59 PM, SuburbiaSurvivor wrote:
At 5/29/2012 9:46:49 PM, Ren wrote:
or all-knowing, according to the Bible.

In fact, God is quite fallible. Just a lot more powerful than us when we don't work together.

If we were to eat from the Tree of Life and become immortal, we'd be God's equal.

Like God=/=Equal to God.

Yes. And the distinction made was the Tree of Life.

Which means that we would be God's equal, cumulatively, if we were to each from the Tree of Life.

What biblical evidence do you have that supports the idea that if we ate of the tree of life we'd literally be equal to God in omniscience, omnipotence, and omnipresence? Being immortal does not automatically grant you these qualities.
"I'm going to tell you something that you're never going to forget, SuburbiaSurvivor. Women... Are just human beings"