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Prayer in public school.

Maikuru
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6/4/2012 1:58:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why would someone want to pray in school? Don't they realize they could be learning about math?
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tBoonePickens
Posts: 3,266
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6/4/2012 2:00:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 1:58:50 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Why would someone want to pray in school? Don't they realize they could be learning about math?
You mean they can't do both? What kind of schooling system is this anyways!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/4/2012 2:20:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not really sure what the con's are. If it interferes with learning than that would be a con. I went to a public high school and I prayed all the time. No one ever said anything to me about it.
tBoonePickens
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6/4/2012 2:22:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 2:20:04 PM, stubs wrote:
I'm not really sure what the con's are. If it interferes with learning than that would be a con. I went to a public high school and I prayed all the time. No one ever said anything to me about it.

Lucky you. That's not the case in most public schools.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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6/4/2012 2:22:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 1:43:59 PM, Pink1234 wrote:
What are the pros and cons of prayer in public schools?

The Fool: Its called people have difference beliefs. In Canada there is a much larger plethora of Religions. It wierd to here people constantly presuming Christianity.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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6/4/2012 2:29:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 1:58:50 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Why would someone want to pray in school? Don't they realize they could be learning about math?

Why would someone want to learn about math?

I kid, I kid.

There are no cons to praying in public school, unless you mean publically. I wouldn't want to be (or my kids to be) forced to endure an Islamic prayer, so I don't think other kids should be forced to endure a Christian prayer. I think a teacher should be able to lead a prayer, for example, in a Christian club at school. But not in a class session or during an assembly, unless, obviously, it's at a Christian school.
Maikuru
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6/4/2012 2:37:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 2:20:04 PM, stubs wrote:
I'm not really sure what the con's are. If it interferes with learning than that would be a con. I went to a public high school and I prayed all the time. No one ever said anything to me about it.

I assume he's referring to organized prayer. Most of us prayed before eating lunch.
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Paradox_7
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6/4/2012 2:42:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 1:43:59 PM, Pink1234 wrote:
What are the pros and cons of prayer in public schools?


Do you mean prayer as a part of the publics schools requirements??

That, I know, won't fly.

If you mean, should people be allowed to pray at school, then YES, of course..
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
tBoonePickens
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6/4/2012 2:44:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 2:22:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 6/4/2012 1:43:59 PM, Pink1234 wrote:
What are the pros and cons of prayer in public schools?

The Fool: Its called people have difference beliefs.
Who said any different?

In Canada there is a much larger plethora of Religions.
Lol! You don't seem to know much about what's going on in Canada, never mind USA.

It wierd to here people constantly presuming Christianity.
USA is about 77% Christian and so is Canada! If a population is OVER 3/4 Christian, why WOULDN'T one presume Christian?!

There's nothing wrong with allotting time for prayer in school. It needn't be denominational or religion-specific.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Maikuru
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6/4/2012 2:47:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 2:44:22 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:

There's nothing wrong with allotting time for prayer in school. It needn't be denominational or religion-specific.

Should the school day be extended or should time be siphoned from other courses? Would this time be optional?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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Kinesis
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6/4/2012 2:51:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 2:44:22 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
There's nothing wrong with allotting time for prayer in school. It needn't be denominational or religion-specific.

The mere exercise of prayer excludes a great deal of religions.
Kinesis
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6/4/2012 2:54:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 1:58:50 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Why would someone want to pray in school? Don't they realize they could be learning about math?

Hey, I used prayer time productively. There's no better time to fantasise about your hot English teacher than when she leads everyone in closing their eyes and mindlessly reciting the Lord's Prayer.
tBoonePickens
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6/4/2012 2:57:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 2:47:53 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Should the school day be extended or should time be siphoned from other courses? Would this time be optional?
Answers: extended, not optional.

Next...

*************************************

At 6/4/2012 2:51:07 PM, Kinesis wrote:
At 6/4/2012 2:44:22 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
There's nothing wrong with allotting time for prayer in school. It needn't be denominational or religion-specific.
The mere exercise of prayer excludes a great deal of religions.
That's ridiculous! Can you site a religion that is opposed to "the witnessing the exercise of prayer"?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Maikuru
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6/4/2012 3:08:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 2:57:41 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 6/4/2012 2:47:53 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Should the school day be extended or should time be siphoned from other courses? Would this time be optional?
Answers: extended, not optional.

Isn't that what church, temple, etc. is for?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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AlwaysMoreThanYou
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6/4/2012 3:20:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 2:57:41 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Answers: extended, not optional.

Trololol. Right?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
tBoonePickens
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6/4/2012 3:26:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 3:20:11 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
At 6/4/2012 2:57:41 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
Answers: extended, not optional.

Trololol. Right?
Humor, right?
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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6/4/2012 3:26:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Pro: solidarity of religion consolidated

Con: Merges religion with state.
Removes Freedom of religion, when imposed (and when not imposed, it might as well be removed entirely for all its benefits)
Standard of deciding some religions are better over others.

Best solution: if you need to pray at certain times as part of your religion, tell your school, and they can accommodate you. If not, then get on with it: it's not a religious necessity for that moment in time. It's like making all meat in a school kosher rather than serving a single kosher meal for the single jewish kid.
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tBoonePickens
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6/4/2012 3:27:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 3:08:32 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 6/4/2012 2:57:41 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 6/4/2012 2:47:53 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Should the school day be extended or should time be siphoned from other courses? Would this time be optional?
Answers: extended, not optional.

Isn't that what church, temple, etc. is for?
Last I checked, prayer isn't exclusive to church/temple.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
AlwaysMoreThanYou
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6/4/2012 3:40:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The school day should not include time for prayer unless necessary to accomodate a religion. Prayer has nothing to do with public education.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
innomen
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6/4/2012 3:47:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 2:22:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 6/4/2012 1:43:59 PM, Pink1234 wrote:
What are the pros and cons of prayer in public schools?

The Fool: Its called people have difference beliefs. In Canada there is a much larger plethora of Religions. It wierd to here people constantly presuming Christianity.

huh? Who said anything to imply a presumption of Christianity other than you?
bossyburrito
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6/4/2012 3:47:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
You go to school to learn, NOT pray.
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tBoonePickens
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6/4/2012 3:59:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 3:26:40 PM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
Pro: solidarity of religion consolidated

Con: Merges religion with state.
What do you mean by this?

Removes Freedom of religion, when imposed (and when not imposed, it might as well be removed entirely for all its benefits)
How is the free exercise of religion, removing religious freedom?

Standard of deciding some religions are better over others.
Who said anything about that?

Best solution: if you need to pray at certain times as part of your religion, tell your school, and they can accommodate you.
Why alienate the majority?

If not, then get on with it: it's not a religious necessity for that moment in time. It's like making all meat in a school kosher rather than serving a single kosher meal for the single jewish kid.
Terrible attempt at an analogy that does not fit here.

**************************

At 6/4/2012 3:40:59 PM, AlwaysMoreThanYou wrote:
The school day should not include time for prayer unless necessary to accomodate a religion.
Well, yeah that's the point.

Prayer has nothing to do with public education.
1) How so?
2) Neither does the proper role of government have anything to do with education, but we do it anyways.

********************************

At 6/4/2012 3:47:39 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
You go to school to learn, NOT pray.
A) That's your opinion.
B) You go to school to do MANY things: eat, exercise, socialize, etc.
C) See 2 above.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
WriterDave
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6/4/2012 4:08:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 2:22:10 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 6/4/2012 2:20:04 PM, stubs wrote:
I'm not really sure what the con's are. If it interferes with learning than that would be a con. I went to a public high school and I prayed all the time. No one ever said anything to me about it.

Lucky you. That's not the case in most public schools.

Once in the twelfth grade, I saw an acquaintance sitting at his desk at the end of a period, head bowed, hands clasped. After he was done, we had the following exchange:

Me: Were you praying just now?
Him: Yeah.
Me: Oh.

By your logic, that counts as religious oppression.
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tBoonePickens
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6/4/2012 4:14:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 4:08:32 PM, WriterDave wrote:
At 6/4/2012 2:22:10 PM, tBoonePickens wrote:
At 6/4/2012 2:20:04 PM, stubs wrote:
I'm not really sure what the con's are. If it interferes with learning than that would be a con. I went to a public high school and I prayed all the time. No one ever said anything to me about it.

Lucky you. That's not the case in most public schools.

Once in the twelfth grade, I saw an acquaintance sitting at his desk at the end of a period, head bowed, hands clasped. After he was done, we had the following exchange:

Me: Were you praying just now?
Him: Yeah.
Me: Oh.

By your logic, that counts as religious oppression.
If there is an organized effort by the school to deny that then yes; otherwise, no.
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
mattrodstrom
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6/4/2012 4:43:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Having attended Public schools from kindergarten through College I can not recall ever having heard of someone who was given a hard time by any administration for praying.. and can't think that that happens very much, unless the person's praying with the purpose of disrupting the school day or drawing attention to themselves from other students.
(granted I can't really recall seeing anyone ever pray in school either though..)

At most perhaps students should have 10-15 minutes of Free Personal Time to quietly (like not being too loud) do as they will.
I would be against the teachers actively encouraging something like praying.. and so would definitely be against it being called 'prayer time' by administrators/teachers and wouldn't want them to introduce the idea of praying to students.

Perhaps they should just say: "this is time to do something You find Meaningful.. or something that you would care about." (write in journal, write letters to mom/dad/granparents, work on some kind of artsey type project.. or read or Relax or whatever you might Personally care to do that you can do without disrupting/distracting the others.. Perhaps even encourage them to discuss what they'd care to do in this free time with their parents if they wish.. and leave it at that.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
tBoonePickens
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6/4/2012 4:54:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 4:43:19 PM, mattrodstrom wrote:
Having attended Public schools from kindergarten through College I can not recall ever having heard of someone who was given a hard time by any administration for praying.. and can't think that that happens very much, unless the person's praying with the purpose of disrupting the school day or drawing attention to themselves from other students.
(granted I can't really recall seeing anyone ever pray in school either though..)
ROTFL! It would also explain why you never saw anyone given a hard time! Nonetheless, I don't think that anyone has out and out said that this happens, so you are addressing a moot point with a moot observation!

At most perhaps students should have 10-15 minutes of Free Personal Time to quietly (like not being too loud) do as they will.
Don't have a problem with that; it's rather reasonable.

I would be against the teachers actively encouraging something like praying.. and so would definitely be against it being called 'prayer time' by administrators/teachers and wouldn't want them to introduce the idea of praying to students.
They (teachers/administrators) can call it prayer/personal time and I don't have a problem with that.

Perhaps they should just say: "this is time to do something You find Meaningful.. or something that you would care about." (write in journal, write letters to mom/dad/granparents, work on some kind of artsey type project.. or read or Relax or whatever you might Personally care to do that you can do without disrupting/distracting the others.. Perhaps even encourage them to discuss what they'd care to do in this free time with their parents if they wish.. and leave it at that.
But God forbid they use the dirty word "prayer"!
WOS
: At 10/3/2012 4:28:52 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
: Without nothing existing, you couldn't have something.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
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6/4/2012 5:17:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/4/2012 3:47:10 PM, innomen wrote:
At 6/4/2012 2:22:52 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 6/4/2012 1:43:59 PM, Pink1234 wrote:
What are the pros and cons of prayer in public schools?

The Fool: Its called people have difference beliefs. In Canada there is a much larger plethora of Religions. It wierd to here people constantly presuming Christianity.

huh? Who said anything to imply a presumption of Christianity other than you?

The Fool: Because people have different practices as different times of day. They are aloud to pray personally in public schools already, the rule is in consideration of Mass prayer.

I will leave the math to you.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL