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The Curse of Eternal Life

Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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6/5/2012 10:57:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
GenesisCreation stated in a RFD:

The resolution is quite simple for Pro. He should have cited 2 Peter 3:15 - but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, An atheist cannot support atheism with hope. The only absolute for an Atheist is the eventual black void of decomposition. The Gospel is sufficient to provide hope. Should have been an easy win. Lean on your faith.


Basically, the Christian argues that atheism has no hope whereas Christianity does. I'd like to reflect on this a little. If Christianity was true and I went to heaven, I honestly would not want to live an eternal life. I believe that eternal life would be truly a curse rather than a blessing.

Religion offers two choices:
1. Believe in their God and go to heaven; or
2. Don't believe in their god and go to hell.

Neither one of these choices look very good. The mentality that I received when growing up as a fundamentalist Christian was one that was in constant fear of hell and fear of death. The truth is, I did not want to live that way.

Reflecting on it now, Christianity (and Islam)'s god is portrayed to be mentally ill that revels in the death and suffering of others. Hell is infinite punishment for finite sins and heaven is infinite reward for finite good.

So, according to Christian theology, I can be the best moral person on earth and go to hell where as Hitler goes to heaven if he was a Christian (and yes, he was indeed a Christian).

What gratifications can I really have in an eternal life? Thunderf00t really nails it in his video "Eternal Life would be No Gift!"

I am interested in the Christian response. Point blank, if Christianity or any form of theism was true, I don't really want to believe it. I really don't want any "eternal life." My mortality is what drives me to be moral and drives me to find hope and pace because I realize that my life is very short and I want to make the most out of it.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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6/5/2012 11:10:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 10:57:45 AM, Microsuck wrote:
GenesisCreation stated in a RFD:

The resolution is quite simple for Pro. He should have cited 2 Peter 3:15 - but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, An atheist cannot support atheism with hope. The only absolute for an Atheist is the eventual black void of decomposition. The Gospel is sufficient to provide hope. Should have been an easy win. Lean on your faith.


Basically, the Christian argues that atheism has no hope whereas Christianity does. I'd like to reflect on this a little. If Christianity was true and I went to heaven, I honestly would not want to live an eternal life. I believe that eternal life would be truly a curse rather than a blessing.

Religion offers two choices:
1. Believe in their God and go to heaven; or
2. Don't believe in their god and go to hell.

Neither one of these choices look very good. The mentality that I received when growing up as a fundamentalist Christian was one that was in constant fear of hell and fear of death. The truth is, I did not want to live that way.

Reflecting on it now, Christianity (and Islam)'s god is portrayed to be mentally ill that revels in the death and suffering of others. Hell is infinite punishment for finite sins and heaven is infinite reward for finite good.

So, according to Christian theology, I can be the best moral person on earth and go to hell where as Hitler goes to heaven if he was a Christian (and yes, he was indeed a Christian).

What gratifications can I really have in an eternal life? Thunderf00t really nails it in his video "Eternal Life would be No Gift!"

I am interested in the Christian response. Point blank, if Christianity or any form of theism was true, I don't really want to believe it. I really don't want any "eternal life." My mortality is what drives me to be moral and drives me to find hope and pace because I realize that my life is very short and I want to make the most out of it.

Things are true regardless if we like it or not. If Christianity is true, it's true whether or not you would want an eternal life. And frankly, eternal life in Heaven is much better than the alternative.

Also, Thunderf00t doesn't nail anything. His arguments are consistently bad, as are 99% of YouTube atheists' arguments.

People don't go to Heaven or Hell because they believe or don't believe in God. People go to Hell because of their sins, which are heinous to God. If someone goes to Hell, they have only themselves to blame. People who go to Heaven do so because of God's mercy, that He has offered the way out. He offers forgiveness of sin and grants us the ability to live in Heaven.

Finally, no, Hiter was not a Christian. Hitler is not in Heaven. That's an atheist myth and just reinforces the fact that YouTube atheists' arguments are bad and their knowledge is weak. Hitler may have abused Christianity to get people to follow him, but his beliefs did not line up with Christianity.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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6/5/2012 11:12:56 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 11:10:02 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/5/2012 10:57:45 AM, Microsuck wrote:
GenesisCreation stated in a RFD:

The resolution is quite simple for Pro. He should have cited 2 Peter 3:15 - but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, An atheist cannot support atheism with hope. The only absolute for an Atheist is the eventual black void of decomposition. The Gospel is sufficient to provide hope. Should have been an easy win. Lean on your faith.


Basically, the Christian argues that atheism has no hope whereas Christianity does. I'd like to reflect on this a little. If Christianity was true and I went to heaven, I honestly would not want to live an eternal life. I believe that eternal life would be truly a curse rather than a blessing.

Religion offers two choices:
1. Believe in their God and go to heaven; or
2. Don't believe in their god and go to hell.

Neither one of these choices look very good. The mentality that I received when growing up as a fundamentalist Christian was one that was in constant fear of hell and fear of death. The truth is, I did not want to live that way.

Reflecting on it now, Christianity (and Islam)'s god is portrayed to be mentally ill that revels in the death and suffering of others. Hell is infinite punishment for finite sins and heaven is infinite reward for finite good.

So, according to Christian theology, I can be the best moral person on earth and go to hell where as Hitler goes to heaven if he was a Christian (and yes, he was indeed a Christian).

What gratifications can I really have in an eternal life? Thunderf00t really nails it in his video "Eternal Life would be No Gift!"

I am interested in the Christian response. Point blank, if Christianity or any form of theism was true, I don't really want to believe it. I really don't want any "eternal life." My mortality is what drives me to be moral and drives me to find hope and pace because I realize that my life is very short and I want to make the most out of it.

Things are true regardless if we like it or not. If Christianity is true, it's true whether or not you would want an eternal life. And frankly, eternal life in Heaven is much better than the alternative.

I am well aware of it, but it misses the point. Christians tell me that there is no hope in atheism and that Christianity will grant eternal life. When they ask why I reject such a thing, that is my answer.


Finally, no, Hiter was not a Christian. Hitler is not in Heaven. That's an atheist myth and just reinforces the fact that YouTube atheists' arguments are bad and their knowledge is weak. Hitler may have abused Christianity to get people to follow him, but his beliefs did not line up with Christianity.

http://www.examinethetruth.com...

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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6/5/2012 11:20:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 11:12:56 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:10:02 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/5/2012 10:57:45 AM, Microsuck wrote:
GenesisCreation stated in a RFD:

The resolution is quite simple for Pro. He should have cited 2 Peter 3:15 - but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, An atheist cannot support atheism with hope. The only absolute for an Atheist is the eventual black void of decomposition. The Gospel is sufficient to provide hope. Should have been an easy win. Lean on your faith.


Basically, the Christian argues that atheism has no hope whereas Christianity does. I'd like to reflect on this a little. If Christianity was true and I went to heaven, I honestly would not want to live an eternal life. I believe that eternal life would be truly a curse rather than a blessing.

Religion offers two choices:
1. Believe in their God and go to heaven; or
2. Don't believe in their god and go to hell.

Neither one of these choices look very good. The mentality that I received when growing up as a fundamentalist Christian was one that was in constant fear of hell and fear of death. The truth is, I did not want to live that way.

Reflecting on it now, Christianity (and Islam)'s god is portrayed to be mentally ill that revels in the death and suffering of others. Hell is infinite punishment for finite sins and heaven is infinite reward for finite good.

So, according to Christian theology, I can be the best moral person on earth and go to hell where as Hitler goes to heaven if he was a Christian (and yes, he was indeed a Christian).

What gratifications can I really have in an eternal life? Thunderf00t really nails it in his video "Eternal Life would be No Gift!"

I am interested in the Christian response. Point blank, if Christianity or any form of theism was true, I don't really want to believe it. I really don't want any "eternal life." My mortality is what drives me to be moral and drives me to find hope and pace because I realize that my life is very short and I want to make the most out of it.

Things are true regardless if we like it or not. If Christianity is true, it's true whether or not you would want an eternal life. And frankly, eternal life in Heaven is much better than the alternative.

I am well aware of it, but it misses the point. Christians tell me that there is no hope in atheism and that Christianity will grant eternal life. When they ask why I reject such a thing, that is my answer.



Finally, no, Hiter was not a Christian. Hitler is not in Heaven. That's an atheist myth and just reinforces the fact that YouTube atheists' arguments are bad and their knowledge is weak. Hitler may have abused Christianity to get people to follow him, but his beliefs did not line up with Christianity.

http://www.examinethetruth.com...


Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

Hitler's Table Talk is a compilation of sayings by Hitler in private conversations that were recorded by other Nazis. It is a good source for what Hitler really thought.

"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 145

"Pure Christianity—the Christianity of the catacombs—is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 146

"But Christianity is an invention of sick brains : one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A negro with his tabus is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 144

I could go on and on.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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6/5/2012 11:27:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hitler also built roads. Are roads evil now?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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6/5/2012 11:27:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 11:20:13 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:12:56 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:10:02 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/5/2012 10:57:45 AM, Microsuck wrote:
GenesisCreation stated in a RFD:

The resolution is quite simple for Pro. He should have cited 2 Peter 3:15 - but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, An atheist cannot support atheism with hope. The only absolute for an Atheist is the eventual black void of decomposition. The Gospel is sufficient to provide hope. Should have been an easy win. Lean on your faith.


Basically, the Christian argues that atheism has no hope whereas Christianity does. I'd like to reflect on this a little. If Christianity was true and I went to heaven, I honestly would not want to live an eternal life. I believe that eternal life would be truly a curse rather than a blessing.

Religion offers two choices:
1. Believe in their God and go to heaven; or
2. Don't believe in their god and go to hell.

Neither one of these choices look very good. The mentality that I received when growing up as a fundamentalist Christian was one that was in constant fear of hell and fear of death. The truth is, I did not want to live that way.

Reflecting on it now, Christianity (and Islam)'s god is portrayed to be mentally ill that revels in the death and suffering of others. Hell is infinite punishment for finite sins and heaven is infinite reward for finite good.

So, according to Christian theology, I can be the best moral person on earth and go to hell where as Hitler goes to heaven if he was a Christian (and yes, he was indeed a Christian).

What gratifications can I really have in an eternal life? Thunderf00t really nails it in his video "Eternal Life would be No Gift!"

I am interested in the Christian response. Point blank, if Christianity or any form of theism was true, I don't really want to believe it. I really don't want any "eternal life." My mortality is what drives me to be moral and drives me to find hope and pace because I realize that my life is very short and I want to make the most out of it.

Things are true regardless if we like it or not. If Christianity is true, it's true whether or not you would want an eternal life. And frankly, eternal life in Heaven is much better than the alternative.

I am well aware of it, but it misses the point. Christians tell me that there is no hope in atheism and that Christianity will grant eternal life. When they ask why I reject such a thing, that is my answer.



Finally, no, Hiter was not a Christian. Hitler is not in Heaven. That's an atheist myth and just reinforces the fact that YouTube atheists' arguments are bad and their knowledge is weak. Hitler may have abused Christianity to get people to follow him, but his beliefs did not line up with Christianity.

http://www.examinethetruth.com...


Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

Hitler's Table Talk is a compilation of sayings by Hitler in private conversations that were recorded by other Nazis. It is a good source for what Hitler really thought.

"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 145

"Pure Christianity—the Christianity of the catacombs—is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 146

"But Christianity is an invention of sick brains : one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A negro with his tabus is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 144

I could go on and on.

Whether or not Hitler was a Christian or not, the point remains that Hitler could have went to heaven if he converted at the last second before his death whereas I go to hell for not believing.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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6/5/2012 11:35:00 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 11:27:59 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:20:13 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:12:56 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:10:02 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/5/2012 10:57:45 AM, Microsuck wrote:
GenesisCreation stated in a RFD:

The resolution is quite simple for Pro. He should have cited 2 Peter 3:15 - but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, An atheist cannot support atheism with hope. The only absolute for an Atheist is the eventual black void of decomposition. The Gospel is sufficient to provide hope. Should have been an easy win. Lean on your faith.


Basically, the Christian argues that atheism has no hope whereas Christianity does. I'd like to reflect on this a little. If Christianity was true and I went to heaven, I honestly would not want to live an eternal life. I believe that eternal life would be truly a curse rather than a blessing.

Religion offers two choices:
1. Believe in their God and go to heaven; or
2. Don't believe in their god and go to hell.

Neither one of these choices look very good. The mentality that I received when growing up as a fundamentalist Christian was one that was in constant fear of hell and fear of death. The truth is, I did not want to live that way.

Reflecting on it now, Christianity (and Islam)'s god is portrayed to be mentally ill that revels in the death and suffering of others. Hell is infinite punishment for finite sins and heaven is infinite reward for finite good.

So, according to Christian theology, I can be the best moral person on earth and go to hell where as Hitler goes to heaven if he was a Christian (and yes, he was indeed a Christian).

What gratifications can I really have in an eternal life? Thunderf00t really nails it in his video "Eternal Life would be No Gift!"

I am interested in the Christian response. Point blank, if Christianity or any form of theism was true, I don't really want to believe it. I really don't want any "eternal life." My mortality is what drives me to be moral and drives me to find hope and pace because I realize that my life is very short and I want to make the most out of it.

Things are true regardless if we like it or not. If Christianity is true, it's true whether or not you would want an eternal life. And frankly, eternal life in Heaven is much better than the alternative.

I am well aware of it, but it misses the point. Christians tell me that there is no hope in atheism and that Christianity will grant eternal life. When they ask why I reject such a thing, that is my answer.



Finally, no, Hiter was not a Christian. Hitler is not in Heaven. That's an atheist myth and just reinforces the fact that YouTube atheists' arguments are bad and their knowledge is weak. Hitler may have abused Christianity to get people to follow him, but his beliefs did not line up with Christianity.

http://www.examinethetruth.com...


Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

Hitler's Table Talk is a compilation of sayings by Hitler in private conversations that were recorded by other Nazis. It is a good source for what Hitler really thought.

"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 145

"Pure Christianity—the Christianity of the catacombs—is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 146

"But Christianity is an invention of sick brains : one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A negro with his tabus is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 144

I could go on and on.

Whether or not Hitler was a Christian or not, the point remains that Hitler could have went to heaven if he converted at the last second before his death whereas I go to hell for not believing.

If it was a genuine conversion, then yes. If it was a conversion because he was "hedging his bets," then no. Someone who could do such a horrible atrocity as the Holocaust, though, I don't think would ever have wanted to accept Christ's forgiveness. The mark of a Christian is to love our neighbors and enemies, something I'm not sure Hitler was capable of.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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6/5/2012 11:38:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 11:35:00 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:27:59 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:20:13 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:12:56 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:10:02 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/5/2012 10:57:45 AM, Microsuck wrote:
GenesisCreation stated in a RFD:

The resolution is quite simple for Pro. He should have cited 2 Peter 3:15 - but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, An atheist cannot support atheism with hope. The only absolute for an Atheist is the eventual black void of decomposition. The Gospel is sufficient to provide hope. Should have been an easy win. Lean on your faith.


Basically, the Christian argues that atheism has no hope whereas Christianity does. I'd like to reflect on this a little. If Christianity was true and I went to heaven, I honestly would not want to live an eternal life. I believe that eternal life would be truly a curse rather than a blessing.

Religion offers two choices:
1. Believe in their God and go to heaven; or
2. Don't believe in their god and go to hell.

Neither one of these choices look very good. The mentality that I received when growing up as a fundamentalist Christian was one that was in constant fear of hell and fear of death. The truth is, I did not want to live that way.

Reflecting on it now, Christianity (and Islam)'s god is portrayed to be mentally ill that revels in the death and suffering of others. Hell is infinite punishment for finite sins and heaven is infinite reward for finite good.

So, according to Christian theology, I can be the best moral person on earth and go to hell where as Hitler goes to heaven if he was a Christian (and yes, he was indeed a Christian).

What gratifications can I really have in an eternal life? Thunderf00t really nails it in his video "Eternal Life would be No Gift!"

I am interested in the Christian response. Point blank, if Christianity or any form of theism was true, I don't really want to believe it. I really don't want any "eternal life." My mortality is what drives me to be moral and drives me to find hope and pace because I realize that my life is very short and I want to make the most out of it.

Things are true regardless if we like it or not. If Christianity is true, it's true whether or not you would want an eternal life. And frankly, eternal life in Heaven is much better than the alternative.

I am well aware of it, but it misses the point. Christians tell me that there is no hope in atheism and that Christianity will grant eternal life. When they ask why I reject such a thing, that is my answer.



Finally, no, Hiter was not a Christian. Hitler is not in Heaven. That's an atheist myth and just reinforces the fact that YouTube atheists' arguments are bad and their knowledge is weak. Hitler may have abused Christianity to get people to follow him, but his beliefs did not line up with Christianity.

http://www.examinethetruth.com...


Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

Hitler's Table Talk is a compilation of sayings by Hitler in private conversations that were recorded by other Nazis. It is a good source for what Hitler really thought.

"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 145

"Pure Christianity—the Christianity of the catacombs—is concerned with translating the Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 146

"But Christianity is an invention of sick brains : one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery. A negro with his tabus is crushingly superior to the human being who seriously believes in Transubstantiation." -Hitler's Table Talk, pg 144

I could go on and on.

Whether or not Hitler was a Christian or not, the point remains that Hitler could have went to heaven if he converted at the last second before his death whereas I go to hell for not believing.

If it was a genuine conversion, then yes. If it was a conversion because he was "hedging his bets," then no. Someone who could do such a horrible atrocity as the Holocaust, though, I don't think would ever have wanted to accept Christ's forgiveness. The mark of a Christian is to love our neighbors and enemies, something I'm not sure Hitler was capable of.

Well, the one of the two criminals on the cross next to Jesus certainly did so I suppose that means Hitler could have as well.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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6/5/2012 11:46:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
For life to be perfectly happy, meaningful, purposful & valuable 2 things are required.

1) Immortality, but not just immortality otherwise it would be a curse; but also,
2) God, a qualitativaly infinite reality. Thus the potentially infinite discovery of God is what makes immortality desirable.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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6/5/2012 11:50:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 11:46:38 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
For life to be perfectly happy, meaningful, purposful & valuable 2 things are required.

1) Immortality, but not just immortality otherwise it would be a curse; but also,
2) God, a qualitativaly infinite reality. Thus the potentially infinite discovery of God is what makes immortality desirable.

Wrong on both accounts.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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6/5/2012 12:06:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 11:50:26 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:46:38 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
For life to be perfectly happy, meaningful, purposful & valuable 2 things are required.

1) Immortality, but not just immortality otherwise it would be a curse; but also,
2) God, a qualitativaly infinite reality. Thus the potentially infinite discovery of God is what makes immortality desirable.

Wrong on both accounts.

Oh do tell :-)
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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6/5/2012 12:10:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 12:06:12 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:50:26 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:46:38 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
For life to be perfectly happy, meaningful, purposful & valuable 2 things are required.

1) Immortality, but not just immortality otherwise it would be a curse; but also,
2) God, a qualitativaly infinite reality. Thus the potentially infinite discovery of God is what makes immortality desirable.

Wrong on both accounts.

Oh do tell :-)

On count 1, I already explained in the original post on why I think immortality would be a curse.

God is not required to be happy because emotions cannot be effected by anything in the supernatural realm. It begs the question why is it your God that makes people happy over all other gods?
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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6/5/2012 12:50:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 12:10:25 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:06:12 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:50:26 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:46:38 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
For life to be perfectly happy, meaningful, purposful & valuable 2 things are required.

1) Immortality, but not just immortality otherwise it would be a curse; but also,
2) God, a qualitativaly infinite reality. Thus the potentially infinite discovery of God is what makes immortality desirable.

Wrong on both accounts.

Oh do tell :-)

On count 1, I already explained in the original post on why I think immortality would be a curse.

& that's irrelevent since I said it's taken as coexistent with #2.

God is not required to be happy because emotions cannot be effected by anything in the supernatural realm. It begs the question why is it your God that makes people happy over all other gods?

I said perfect happiness. If we are fundementally minds, then we still experience happiness a qualia, just like we experience now as qualia even though there are physical causes brought on as well. The mind, if it exists, effects the body like a pianist effect the piano.

Perfect happiness is a byproduct of experiencing a qualitatively infinite reality (God), or an all Good. A perfect good- or complete good.

It's the apprehension of the good in this life that makes us happy, either by just or unjust means.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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6/5/2012 12:52:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 12:50:55 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:10:25 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:06:12 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:50:26 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:46:38 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
For life to be perfectly happy, meaningful, purposful & valuable 2 things are required.

1) Immortality, but not just immortality otherwise it would be a curse; but also,
2) God, a qualitativaly infinite reality. Thus the potentially infinite discovery of God is what makes immortality desirable.

Wrong on both accounts.

Oh do tell :-)

On count 1, I already explained in the original post on why I think immortality would be a curse.

& that's irrelevent since I said it's taken as coexistent with #2.

God is not required to be happy because emotions cannot be effected by anything in the supernatural realm. It begs the question why is it your God that makes people happy over all other gods?

I said perfect happiness. If we are fundementally minds, then we still experience happiness a qualia, just like we experience now as qualia even though there are physical causes brought on as well. The mind, if it exists, effects the body like a pianist effect the piano.

Perfect happiness is a byproduct of experiencing a qualitatively infinite reality (God), or an all Good. A perfect good- or complete good.

It's the apprehension of the good in this life that makes us happy, either by just or unjust means.

It begs the question, what is <i>perfect</i> happiness? What makes someone happy is subjective and relative to the person. This post is a good post concerning happiness and atheism: http://commonsenseatheism.com...
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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6/5/2012 12:54:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 12:52:59 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:50:55 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:10:25 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:06:12 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:50:26 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:46:38 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
For life to be perfectly happy, meaningful, purposful & valuable 2 things are required.

1) Immortality, but not just immortality otherwise it would be a curse; but also,
2) God, a qualitativaly infinite reality. Thus the potentially infinite discovery of God is what makes immortality desirable.

Wrong on both accounts.

Oh do tell :-)

On count 1, I already explained in the original post on why I think immortality would be a curse.

& that's irrelevent since I said it's taken as coexistent with #2.

God is not required to be happy because emotions cannot be effected by anything in the supernatural realm. It begs the question why is it your God that makes people happy over all other gods?

I said perfect happiness. If we are fundementally minds, then we still experience happiness a qualia, just like we experience now as qualia even though there are physical causes brought on as well. The mind, if it exists, effects the body like a pianist effect the piano.

Perfect happiness is a byproduct of experiencing a qualitatively infinite reality (God), or an all Good. A perfect good- or complete good.

It's the apprehension of the good in this life that makes us happy, either by just or unjust means.

It begs the question, what is <i>perfect</i> happiness? What makes someone happy is subjective and relative to the person. This post is a good post concerning happiness and atheism: http://commonsenseatheism.com...

As Karl Marx (note, I'm not a communist) said:

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The fact that a person is happy as a Theist; therefore, Christianity is true is akin to saying that a drunk man is happier than a sober man; therefore, drinking is good.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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6/5/2012 1:02:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 1:02:21 PM, stubs wrote:
Living forever in heaven seems better to me than not existing, but that's just my opinion haha

Haha. Well, you first need to prove heaven exists! The existence of God is not likely.
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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6/5/2012 1:22:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 12:52:59 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:50:55 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:10:25 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:06:12 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:50:26 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:46:38 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
For life to be perfectly happy, meaningful, purposful & valuable 2 things are required.

1) Immortality, but not just immortality otherwise it would be a curse; but also,
2) God, a qualitativaly infinite reality. Thus the potentially infinite discovery of God is what makes immortality desirable.

Wrong on both accounts.

Oh do tell :-)

On count 1, I already explained in the original post on why I think immortality would be a curse.

& that's irrelevent since I said it's taken as coexistent with #2.

God is not required to be happy because emotions cannot be effected by anything in the supernatural realm. It begs the question why is it your God that makes people happy over all other gods?

I said perfect happiness. If we are fundementally minds, then we still experience happiness a qualia, just like we experience now as qualia even though there are physical causes brought on as well. The mind, if it exists, effects the body like a pianist effect the piano.

Perfect happiness is a byproduct of experiencing a qualitatively infinite reality (God), or an all Good. A perfect good- or complete good.

It's the apprehension of the good in this life that makes us happy, either by just or unjust means.

It begs the question, what is <i>perfect</i> happiness? What makes someone happy is subjective and relative to the person. This post is a good post concerning happiness and atheism: http://commonsenseatheism.com...


You're right, it's subjective to the Chosen. ;)

You sounds like a starving person, staring at a feast, knowing you can't have it, blurting out: "i wouldn't wanna eat it anyway!"..

When I listen to most atheists talk about heaven or God; you all sound the same.

We are the ones who are blinded by our faith, and slaves to our fake God; But you are the one who can only imagine the things you've seen. Your concepts of God and his righteousness always relate to something you've seen here, on earth.

God is more like Galactus then an Almighty being. It's like you really think that you could resist him, even if he was real(lol).

If you think you can equate God's glory, to something you can understand fully, then you will be left with every man-made God... Zues, Odin, Ra..etc.

If you haven't noticed.. every God but the Judeo Christians God get married and has kids.. the only God that pisses everyone off, and is beyond relation. alien to us.

But I would rather trust in the hope of his perfect knowledge, then of my own.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/5/2012 1:38:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 1:02:51 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 1:02:21 PM, stubs wrote:

Haha. Well, you first need to prove heaven exists! The existence of God is not likely.

The OP said that eternal life would be more of a curse. In my opinion it would be better than not existing. I don't need to prove heaven exists to say whether or not eternal life would be a curse or not. Based on the debates you have done the existence of God is likely (;
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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6/5/2012 2:05:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 1:22:21 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
You're right, it's subjective to the Chosen. ;)

You sounds like a starving person, staring at a feast, knowing you can't have it, blurting out: "i wouldn't wanna eat it anyway!"..

When I listen to most atheists talk about heaven or God; you all sound the same.

We are the ones who are blinded by our faith, and slaves to our fake God; But you are the one who can only imagine the things you've seen. Your concepts of God and his righteousness always relate to something you've seen here, on earth.

God is more like Galactus then an Almighty being. It's like you really think that you could resist him, even if he was real(lol).

If you think you can equate God's glory, to something you can understand fully, then you will be left with every man-made God... Zues, Odin, Ra..etc.

If you haven't noticed.. every God but the Judeo Christians God get married and has kids.. the only God that pisses everyone off, and is beyond relation. alien to us.


But I would rather trust in the hope of his perfect knowledge, then of my own.

Sigged.
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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6/5/2012 3:48:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 12:52:59 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:50:55 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:10:25 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:06:12 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:50:26 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:46:38 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
For life to be perfectly happy, meaningful, purposful & valuable 2 things are required.

1) Immortality, but not just immortality otherwise it would be a curse; but also,
2) God, a qualitativaly infinite reality. Thus the potentially infinite discovery of God is what makes immortality desirable.

Wrong on both accounts.

Oh do tell :-)

On count 1, I already explained in the original post on why I think immortality would be a curse.

& that's irrelevent since I said it's taken as coexistent with #2.

God is not required to be happy because emotions cannot be effected by anything in the supernatural realm. It begs the question why is it your God that makes people happy over all other gods?

I said perfect happiness. If we are fundementally minds, then we still experience happiness a qualia, just like we experience now as qualia even though there are physical causes brought on as well. The mind, if it exists, effects the body like a pianist effect the piano.

Perfect happiness is a byproduct of experiencing a qualitatively infinite reality (God), or an all Good. A perfect good- or complete good.

It's the apprehension of the good in this life that makes us happy, either by just or unjust means.

It begs the question, what is <i>perfect</i> happiness? What makes someone happy is subjective and relative to the person. This post is a good post concerning happiness and atheism: http://commonsenseatheism.com...

& that whole post is begging the question. It ends with "atheism is certainly true" ... OK? Haha.. plus not to mention in the background, Dawkins with a babe and a bus behind him that reads: probably no God, so enjoy your life :-D

Meanwhile the crippled kid who holds on with a hope & prayer shrinks inside (who learned more about God through suffering than I ever could).. how pathetic. But hey, gotta sell those books! ... And it's me who's 'deluded.'

You ask what perfect happiness is but it should be quite intuitive. You experience happiness now- insight tells me that that experience through a variegated texture of reality coupled with ultimate meaning, purpose found in God, gives credence to a self-forming Good. A complete happiness, lacking no fulfillment.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/5/2012 3:50:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 11:10:02 AM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 6/5/2012 10:57:45 AM, Microsuck wrote:
GenesisCreation stated in a RFD:

The resolution is quite simple for Pro. He should have cited 2 Peter 3:15 - but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, An atheist cannot support atheism with hope. The only absolute for an Atheist is the eventual black void of decomposition. The Gospel is sufficient to provide hope. Should have been an easy win. Lean on your faith.


Basically, the Christian argues that atheism has no hope whereas Christianity does. I'd like to reflect on this a little. If Christianity was true and I went to heaven, I honestly would not want to live an eternal life. I believe that eternal life would be truly a curse rather than a blessing.

Religion offers two choices:
1. Believe in their God and go to heaven; or
2. Don't believe in their god and go to hell.

Neither one of these choices look very good. The mentality that I received when growing up as a fundamentalist Christian was one that was in constant fear of hell and fear of death. The truth is, I did not want to live that way.

Reflecting on it now, Christianity (and Islam)'s god is portrayed to be mentally ill that revels in the death and suffering of others. Hell is infinite punishment for finite sins and heaven is infinite reward for finite good.

So, according to Christian theology, I can be the best moral person on earth and go to hell where as Hitler goes to heaven if he was a Christian (and yes, he was indeed a Christian).

What gratifications can I really have in an eternal life? Thunderf00t really nails it in his video "Eternal Life would be No Gift!"

I am interested in the Christian response. Point blank, if Christianity or any form of theism was true, I don't really want to believe it. I really don't want any "eternal life." My mortality is what drives me to be moral and drives me to find hope and pace because I realize that my life is very short and I want to make the most out of it.

Things are true regardless if we like it or not. If Christianity is true, it's true whether or not you would want an eternal life. And frankly, eternal life in Heaven is much better than the alternative.

Also, Thunderf00t doesn't nail anything. His arguments are consistently bad, as are 99% of YouTube atheists' arguments.

People don't go to Heaven or Hell because they believe or don't believe in God. People go to Hell because of their sins, which are heinous to God. If someone goes to Hell, they have only themselves to blame. People who go to Heaven do so because of God's mercy, that He has offered the way out. He offers forgiveness of sin and grants us the ability to live in Heaven.

Finally, no, Hiter was not a Christian. Hitler is not in Heaven. That's an atheist myth and just reinforces the fact that YouTube atheists' arguments are bad and their knowledge is weak. Hitler may have abused Christianity to get people to follow him, but his beliefs did not line up with Christianity.

You are seriously delusional...
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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6/5/2012 3:54:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 12:54:47 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:52:59 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:50:55 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:10:25 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 12:06:12 PM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:50:26 AM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 11:46:38 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
For life to be perfectly happy, meaningful, purposful & valuable 2 things are required.

1) Immortality, but not just immortality otherwise it would be a curse; but also,
2) God, a qualitativaly infinite reality. Thus the potentially infinite discovery of God is what makes immortality desirable.

Wrong on both accounts.

Oh do tell :-)

On count 1, I already explained in the original post on why I think immortality would be a curse.

& that's irrelevent since I said it's taken as coexistent with #2.

God is not required to be happy because emotions cannot be effected by anything in the supernatural realm. It begs the question why is it your God that makes people happy over all other gods?

I said perfect happiness. If we are fundementally minds, then we still experience happiness a qualia, just like we experience now as qualia even though there are physical causes brought on as well. The mind, if it exists, effects the body like a pianist effect the piano.

Perfect happiness is a byproduct of experiencing a qualitatively infinite reality (God), or an all Good. A perfect good- or complete good.

It's the apprehension of the good in this life that makes us happy, either by just or unjust means.

It begs the question, what is <i>perfect</i> happiness? What makes someone happy is subjective and relative to the person. This post is a good post concerning happiness and atheism: http://commonsenseatheism.com...

As Karl Marx (note, I'm not a communist) said:

Religious suffering is, at one and the same time, the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The fact that a person is happy as a Theist; therefore, Christianity is true is akin to saying that a drunk man is happier than a sober man; therefore, drinking is good.

That's cute Micro. You think I'm using happiness to argue for the existence of God. I'm sure you get this all the time from pop-culture barbie girls that go to church every now and again.

Plainly put, your argument was that immortality is torturous. I submit that it is too but not when coexistent with God.

Your reply? "Happiness is an emotion"

No undercut there friend.
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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6/5/2012 3:58:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 1:02:51 PM, Microsuck wrote:
At 6/5/2012 1:02:21 PM, stubs wrote:
Living forever in heaven seems better to me than not existing, but that's just my opinion haha

Haha. Well, you first need to prove heaven exists! The existence of God is not likely.

Proving heaven is not a prerequisite for entering. Try again.
Reason_Alliance
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6/5/2012 4:00:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/5/2012 3:51:36 PM, FREEDO wrote:
You were never alive in the first place.

Finally, all my 99 problems solved! ... Now about that ... GirlFriend.