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Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in c

GreatestIam
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6/11/2012 11:01:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

This quote indicates that the creation of evil is an ongoing process by God and that he creates evil for his pleasure. This makes sense in that God would not create something that he did not want in the world or that would displease him.

As a Gnostic Christian, I recognize that the concept of God is all myth.

Literal and historic belief did not generally come about till about the years 80. 50 years after the death of Jesus. In fact, Jesus was not declared divine till the Trinity concept was accepted, by the force of Constantine in 380.

Having said this, I recognize why the ancient thinkers would say that God is pleased when he creates evil in the world.

Do you understand how and why God gains pleasure from creating evil and sin?

If not, why do you think God would create evil and sin for his displeasure?

If God does not do or create evil as some think, then who else has the power to create evil?

Regards
DL
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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6/11/2012 3:51:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 11:01:28 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

This quote indicates that the creation of evil is an ongoing process by God and that he creates evil for his pleasure. This makes sense in that God would not create something that he did not want in the world or that would displease him.

God created human free will. Free will is beautiful, and evil is part of free will. What makes good good is the capability of doing evil but the desire not to because of God.

To me, that's beautiful.

As a Gnostic Christian, I recognize that the concept of God is all myth.

Literal and historic belief did not generally come about till about the years 80. 50 years after the death of Jesus. In fact, Jesus was not declared divine till the Trinity concept was accepted, by the force of Constantine in 380.

"historic" and "actual" are two different things. Very soon after the death of Jesus, the rogue sect which had no real name (except for Nazerines to outsiders) were officially outlawed. Communication of Jesus was merely local, and much more was said than written, as writing was dangerous in such a time.

This is why the letters which were written years ago dd not surface for a long, long time.

Do you understand how and why God gains pleasure from creating evil and sin?

If not, why do you think God would create evil and sin for his displeasure?

If God does not do or create evil as some think, then who else has the power to create evil?

Mankind chooses evil because God gave us the ability to do so. We are not robots or mindless drones.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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6/11/2012 6:31:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

God mite as well hold your hand. Man up for your actions. Stop blaming God cause you are wicked.
TheAsylum
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/11/2012 8:07:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

: Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

Those things aren't evil. That's natural.

Death isn't evil.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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6/11/2012 8:22:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 6:31:05 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

God mite as well hold your hand. Man up for your actions. Stop blaming God cause you are wicked.

I wonder if you would tell a starving African child the same thing.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Calvincambridge
Posts: 1,141
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6/11/2012 9:46:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yes. just like the rest of the alphabet.
Trying to figure out women is like trying to solve a Rubik's cube with missing pieces. While blind. And on fire. And being shot.-Agent_Orange
Dude. Shades
That is all.- Thaddeus Rivers
One thing that isn't a joke though is the fact that woman are computers.Some buttons you can press and it'l work fine, but if you push the wrong one you'll get the blue screen of death.
silly, thett. girls are only good for sex. being friends with a female is of no value.-darkkermit
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/11/2012 11:14:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 6:31:05 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

God mite as well hold your hand. Man up for your actions. Stop blaming God cause you are wicked.

I am wicked, thank you lol Also, I cannot blame a being that does not exist.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/11/2012 11:16:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 8:07:03 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

: Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

Those things aren't evil. That's natural.

Death isn't evil.

You are right, these natural events are not evil. I'm saying that if a being put them there, this being would be evil because they cause pointless suffering that is not due to any human free will. If God existed, all suffering would be due to human free will, but it's not.
cbrhawk1
Posts: 588
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6/11/2012 11:30:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

Death is part of the balance of the Universe in which God created. It's foolish to worry about death. Suffering is a human invention. When you suffer, you revert back to being animals like we were before God made us human. Suffering exists only in the mind of the person who suffers. When in pain, the faithful push to live until God wants you here no more will negate any suffering you feel.

It is only upon submission to the Earth that suffering takes place within a person's mind.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

"The lord works in mysterious ways" is another, more polite way of saying "don't front, because you don't know crap about God's plan." We should not interpret what God does as morally right or wrong, because his plan is beyd comprehension. We should recognize him as our creator and not act like we are better than him.
"All science is 'wrong.'" ~ drafterman
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/12/2012 12:33:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 11:16:00 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 8:07:03 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

: Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

Those things aren't evil. That's natural.

Death isn't evil.

You are right, these natural events are not evil. I'm saying that if a being put them there, this being would be evil because they cause pointless suffering that is not due to any human free will. If God existed, all suffering would be due to human free will, but it's not.

I don't think that's true.

God never says that he's going to create a perfect world with no suffering.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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6/12/2012 3:12:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 8:22:36 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 6/11/2012 6:31:05 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

God mite as well hold your hand. Man up for your actions. Stop blaming God cause you are wicked.

I wonder if you would tell a starving African child the same thing.

Depends on the situation. Kids starving sounds like a humane problem.
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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6/12/2012 3:14:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 11:16:00 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 8:07:03 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

: Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

Those things aren't evil. That's natural.

Death isn't evil.

You are right, these natural events are not evil. I'm saying that if a being put them there, this being would be evil because they cause pointless suffering that is not due to any human free will. If God existed, all suffering would be due to human free will, but it's not.

explain how suffering is not freewill and/or by choice? *Hence it does not have to be the victims choice mind you.
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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6/12/2012 3:15:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/12/2012 12:33:55 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/11/2012 11:16:00 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 8:07:03 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

: Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

Those things aren't evil. That's natural.

Death isn't evil.

You are right, these natural events are not evil. I'm saying that if a being put them there, this being would be evil because they cause pointless suffering that is not due to any human free will. If God existed, all suffering would be due to human free will, but it's not.

I don't think that's true.

God never says that he's going to create a perfect world with no suffering.

He most certainly does!
TheAsylum
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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6/12/2012 3:26:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 9:46:20 PM, Calvincambridge wrote:
Yes. just like the rest of the alphabet.

+1
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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6/12/2012 3:54:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 11:01:28 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

This quote indicates that the creation of evil is an ongoing process by God and that he creates evil for his pleasure. This makes sense in that God would not create something that he did not want in the world or that would displease him.

As a Gnostic Christian, I recognize that the concept of God is all myth.

Literal and historic belief did not generally come about till about the years 80. 50 years after the death of Jesus. In fact, Jesus was not declared divine till the Trinity concept was accepted, by the force of Constantine in 380.

Having said this, I recognize why the ancient thinkers would say that God is pleased when he creates evil in the world.

Do you understand how and why God gains pleasure from creating evil and sin?

If not, why do you think God would create evil and sin for his displeasure?

If God does not do or create evil as some think, then who else has the power to create evil?

Regards
DL

This is a gross over simplification of what has been created and for what reason. I don't share the conventional understanding of "God", but I am able to look at scripture and understand it minus context. I've been called a Gnostic in how I think of a supreme being, but understand that there needs to be some basic foundations used to formulate my understanding of a higher power, and scripture has been able to provide that basic foundation, is necessary. Again, one must spend as much effort in removing the context as finding the message.

If you have a fundamental premise that in all things there is purpose, and the purpose in all things is growth, you can easily accommodate and understand the role of evil and how necessary it is to our purpose.
seeu46
Posts: 578
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6/13/2012 1:53:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 11:16:00 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 8:07:03 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/11/2012 6:00:29 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

: Free will doesn't doesn't explain hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, disease, volcanoes, Earthquakes, lightning, climate shifts, killer asteroids ect.

This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

The "the lord words in mysterious ways" line is obviously not to be taken seriously. If I rape your mother, is this ok because it could have been for some higher good? Pointless suffering is clearly better explained by Atheism than Theism.

Those things aren't evil. That's natural.

Death isn't evil.

You are right, these natural events are not evil. I'm saying that if a being put them there, this being would be evil because they cause pointless suffering that is not due to any human free will. If God existed, all suffering would be due to human free will, but it's not.

Curios. By your logic, if a computer controlled plane created by engineers at an air show lands on a group of people due to malfunction or error and kills them, would you call the creators of the plane evil?

I imagine your next answer is the creators of the plane are not all powerful and if they were then they would not have let anyone crash or die.

They would do acts of making everyone immortal....or superhuman....or change the events that the plane did not crash. Happily ever after.

But with most beliefs in God it is believed they are not dead but that is were God decides what to do with them next.

As this is were we would depart I imagine, just like you don't believe the creators of the plane are evil.....I don't believe God is evil.
GreatestIam
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6/13/2012 3:57:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 3:51:25 PM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 11:01:28 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

This quote indicates that the creation of evil is an ongoing process by God and that he creates evil for his pleasure. This makes sense in that God would not create something that he did not want in the world or that would displease him.

God created human free will. Free will is beautiful, and evil is part of free will. What makes good good is the capability of doing evil but the desire not to because of God.

To me, that's beautiful.

As a Gnostic Christian, I recognize that the concept of God is all myth.

Literal and historic belief did not generally come about till about the years 80. 50 years after the death of Jesus. In fact, Jesus was not declared divine till the Trinity concept was accepted, by the force of Constantine in 380.

"historic" and "actual" are two different things. Very soon after the death of Jesus, the rogue sect which had no real name (except for Nazerines to outsiders) were officially outlawed. Communication of Jesus was merely local, and much more was said than written, as writing was dangerous in such a time.

This is why the letters which were written years ago dd not surface for a long, long time.

Do you understand how and why God gains pleasure from creating evil and sin?

If not, why do you think God would create evil and sin for his displeasure?

If God does not do or create evil as some think, then who else has the power to create evil?

Mankind chooses evil because God gave us the ability to do so. We are not robots or mindless drones.

So evil is then good because without it we would not have free will. Right?

Do we really have a God given free will though?
God seems to have thrown a fit against A & E the first time they did their will and not God's.
If he gave free will, he sure did not give it for us to use. What's up with that?

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/13/2012 5:07:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 5:47:49 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Notice that when God first created everything he examined it and saw that it was good.

God did not create evil and take pleasure in it but rather created a world in which evil is allowed to exist out of freewill.

Lucifer started out good but became evil.

God did not create him as evil.

Satan already existed when God said things were good and an omnipotent God would have known that he would become evil.

He also gave Satan the power to deceive the whole world and put him in the garden to access A & E who could not resist such powers.
Sounds like an insane God.

It was God's plan from the beginning to have Adam and Eve eat the forbidden fruit. This can be demonstrated by the fact that the bible says that Jesus "was crucified from the foundations of the Earth," that is to say, God planned to crucify Jesus as atonement for sin before he even created human beings or God damned sin.

If God had not intended humans to sin from the beginning, why did he build into the Creation this "solution" for sin? Why create a solution for a problem you do not anticipate?

God knew that the moment he said "don't eat from that tree," the die was cast. The eating was inevitable. Eve was merely following the plan.

This then begs the question.

What kind of God would plan and execute the murder of his own son when there was absolutely no need to?

Only an insane God. That's who.

The cornerstone of Christianity is human sacrifice, thus showing it‘s immorality.

One of Christianity's highest form of immorality is what they have done to women.
They have denied them equality and subjugated them to men.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/13/2012 5:12:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 9:46:20 PM, Calvincambridge wrote:
Yes. just like the rest of the alphabet.

Say it 9.5 million times each year.

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/13/2012 5:18:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 11:30:29 PM, cbrhawk1 wrote:
This place is a booby trap, people get killed all the time for no reason. Random people that have done nothing wrong, and people who have, just die for nothing. There are many people who choke each year needlessly because we breath through the same hole we put food in (even Dolphins have this ability). Basically, if God exists he would have created a world where all suffering was due to human free will.This is the argument from pointless suffering, if a loving God exists, there would only be suffering due to human free will, not pointless suffering.

Death is part of the balance of the Universe in which God created. It's foolish to worry about death. Suffering is a human invention.

Your bible says different.

Genesis 3
15 And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel."

16 To the woman He said:
"I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception;
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you."
GreatestIam
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6/13/2012 5:20:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/12/2012 12:33:55 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/11/2012 11:16:00 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:


I don't think that's true.

God never says that he's going to create a perfect world with no suffering.

Not what your bible says.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect:

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/13/2012 5:31:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/12/2012 3:54:52 AM, innomen wrote:
At 6/11/2012 11:01:28 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

This quote indicates that the creation of evil is an ongoing process by God and that he creates evil for his pleasure. This makes sense in that God would not create something that he did not want in the world or that would displease him.

As a Gnostic Christian, I recognize that the concept of God is all myth.

Literal and historic belief did not generally come about till about the years 80. 50 years after the death of Jesus. In fact, Jesus was not declared divine till the Trinity concept was accepted, by the force of Constantine in 380.

Having said this, I recognize why the ancient thinkers would say that God is pleased when he creates evil in the world.

Do you understand how and why God gains pleasure from creating evil and sin?

If not, why do you think God would create evil and sin for his displeasure?

If God does not do or create evil as some think, then who else has the power to create evil?

Regards
DL

This is a gross over simplification of what has been created and for what reason. I don't share the conventional understanding of "God", but I am able to look at scripture and understand it minus context. I've been called a Gnostic in how I think of a supreme being, but understand that there needs to be some basic foundations used to formulate my understanding of a higher power, and scripture has been able to provide that basic foundation, is necessary. Again, one must spend as much effort in removing the context as finding the message.

If you have a fundamental premise that in all things there is purpose, and the purpose in all things is growth, you can easily accommodate and understand the role of evil and how necessary it is to our purpose.

My fellow Gnostic. I am a Gnostic Christian and you are 100% correct.

I have done just as you hint can be done and have accommodated it. I do not want to throw it out just yet but invite you to show how you have accommodated it both from a religious POV and an evolutionary POV.

I will reciprocate and we can compare notes.

Pleased to meet another seeker and wonder if you have seen this new group.
I just signed up but have yet to really see just what will come of it.

http://gnosticschristians.com...

Regards
DL
GreatestIam
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6/13/2012 5:37:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/13/2012 1:53:38 PM, seeu46 wrote:
At 6/11/2012 11:16:00 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:


As this is were we would depart I imagine, just like you don't believe the creators of the plane are evil.....I don't believe God is evil.

Was the destruction of Sodom evil?

Was God having his son murdered needlessly evil?

Was the genocide of Noah's day evil to the innocent children and babies?

God had many moral options for all of those.

Do you find him guilty like these good people do?

Regards
DL
DATCMOTO
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6/14/2012 4:12:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/11/2012 11:01:28 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?

Revelation 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

This quote indicates that the creation of evil is an ongoing process by God and that he creates evil for his pleasure. This makes sense in that God would not create something that he did not want in the world or that would displease him.

As a Gnostic Christian, I recognize that the concept of God is all myth.

Literal and historic belief did not generally come about till about the years 80. 50 years after the death of Jesus. In fact, Jesus was not declared divine till the Trinity concept was accepted, by the force of Constantine in 380.

Having said this, I recognize why the ancient thinkers would say that God is pleased when he creates evil in the world.

Do you understand how and why God gains pleasure from creating evil and sin?

If not, why do you think God would create evil and sin for his displeasure?

If God does not do or create evil as some think, then who else has the power to create evil?

Regards
DL

Jesus Christ is the visible Image of the invisible Father:

God put Himself at OUR mercy when He gave us the choice to reject Him (Jesus going to the cross) God chooses to suffer with our sin (Jesus on the cross) God blesses us from this postion (Jesus putting His mother and John together) God thirsts for us to love and obey Him by loving one another (Jesus: "I thirst!") instead God drinks our iniquity (Jesus is given vinegar, wine gone bad, to drink) our 'worship' is a mockery.. (crown of thorns etc)

So, far from enjoying evil, God sent His only begotten Son to show us how much He suffers with it for OUR sake.
The Cross.. the Cross.
DATCMOTO
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6/18/2012 11:30:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/18/2012 11:19:23 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Thanks for the preaching.

Regards
DL

No, I'm simply stating a position that may be examined, attacked or exposed as false; in short, DEBATED..
The Cross.. the Cross.
GreatestIam
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6/21/2012 11:38:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/18/2012 11:30:14 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 6/18/2012 11:19:23 AM, GreatestIam wrote:
Thanks for the preaching.

Regards
DL

No, I'm simply stating a position that may be examined, attacked or exposed as false; in short, DEBATED..

Easy to debate when all you spout is garbage about human sacrifice and God accepting bribes being moral.

You go ahead and profit from murder. I will not.

Regards
DL