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Code of Hammurabi

EvanK
Posts: 599
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6/24/2012 8:39:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Someone I know (not on DDO) believes that in order to be good moral people, religion (in his case, Christianity) is needed. He claims without Christianity, there would be no morality, no laws, no guidance towards "truth" (in his context, the fact that things like stealing and murder are wrong). And I'm sure there are people who may believe this here on DDO.

But something that comes to mind when thinking about ancient laws and such is the Code of Hammurabi. It was basically an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth set of laws, for those not familiar, and while I agree that form of government isn't the best, it shows that even back around 1700 BC, people new these things were wrong. So it shows that Christianity, even theism, isn't necessary to know right from wrong.

Any thoughts?

BTW, for your convenience, http://en.wikipedia.org...
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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6/24/2012 10:32:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/24/2012 8:39:19 PM, EvanK wrote:
Someone I know (not on DDO) believes that in order to be good moral people, religion (in his case, Christianity) is needed. He claims without Christianity, there would be no morality, no laws, no guidance towards "truth" (in his context, the fact that things like stealing and murder are wrong). And I'm sure there are people who may believe this here on DDO.

But something that comes to mind when thinking about ancient laws and such is the Code of Hammurabi. It was basically an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth set of laws, for those not familiar, and while I agree that form of government isn't the best, it shows that even back around 1700 BC, people new these things were wrong. So it shows that Christianity, even theism, isn't necessary to know right from wrong.

Any thoughts?

BTW, for your convenience, http://en.wikipedia.org...

Apparently, the Code of Hammurabi had one of the first versions of the Golden Rule.

Also, Christopher Hitchens makes the point that if morality is derived from the Ten Commandments, then prior to that, the people following Moses would have thought that murder, theft, rape, etc. were all fine, only to be told when they reach the foot of Mount Sinai that it's not Kosher after all. He then points out that the Israelites wouldn't have gotten that far without an innate sense of right and wrong.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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6/25/2012 9:15:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/24/2012 10:32:04 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 6/24/2012 8:39:19 PM, EvanK wrote:
Someone I know (not on DDO) believes that in order to be good moral people, religion (in his case, Christianity) is needed. He claims without Christianity, there would be no morality, no laws, no guidance towards "truth" (in his context, the fact that things like stealing and murder are wrong). And I'm sure there are people who may believe this here on DDO.

But something that comes to mind when thinking about ancient laws and such is the Code of Hammurabi. It was basically an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth set of laws, for those not familiar, and while I agree that form of government isn't the best, it shows that even back around 1700 BC, people new these things were wrong. So it shows that Christianity, even theism, isn't necessary to know right from wrong.

Any thoughts?

BTW, for your convenience, http://en.wikipedia.org...

Apparently, the Code of Hammurabi had one of the first versions of the Golden Rule.

Also, Christopher Hitchens makes the point that if morality is derived from the Ten Commandments, then prior to that, the people following Moses would have thought that murder, theft, rape, etc. were all fine, only to be told when they reach the foot of Mount Sinai that it's not Kosher after all. He then points out that the Israelites wouldn't have gotten that far without an innate sense of right and wrong.

Actually, it wasn't the idea of 'right and wrong' that God gave in the ten commandments (even Adam and Eve supposedly had a conception of morality), just the laws. Having law helps quite a bit. Imagine if we legalized murder and theft, but let the communities sort them out by themselves. The ten commandments served to unite the Jews under God.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
TheOrator
Posts: 172
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6/25/2012 9:30:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
My simple thought is that the absence of religion -Christianity or otherwise- does not gaurantee immorality any more than the inclusion of religion gaurantees morality. Athiests and Christians alike can be immoral at their own discretion.
My legend begins in the 12th century
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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6/25/2012 9:39:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/25/2012 9:30:31 AM, TheOrator wrote:
My simple thought is that the absence of religion -Christianity or otherwise- does not gaurantee immorality any more than the inclusion of religion gaurantees morality. Athiests and Christians alike can be immoral at their own discretion.

/endthread
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
EvanK
Posts: 599
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6/25/2012 4:47:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/24/2012 10:32:04 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 6/24/2012 8:39:19 PM, EvanK wrote:
Someone I know (not on DDO) believes that in order to be good moral people, religion (in his case, Christianity) is needed. He claims without Christianity, there would be no morality, no laws, no guidance towards "truth" (in his context, the fact that things like stealing and murder are wrong). And I'm sure there are people who may believe this here on DDO.

But something that comes to mind when thinking about ancient laws and such is the Code of Hammurabi. It was basically an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth set of laws, for those not familiar, and while I agree that form of government isn't the best, it shows that even back around 1700 BC, people new these things were wrong. So it shows that Christianity, even theism, isn't necessary to know right from wrong.

Any thoughts?

BTW, for your convenience, http://en.wikipedia.org...

Apparently, the Code of Hammurabi had one of the first versions of the Golden Rule.

Also, Christopher Hitchens makes the point that if morality is derived from the Ten Commandments, then prior to that, the people following Moses would have thought that murder, theft, rape, etc. were all fine, only to be told when they reach the foot of Mount Sinai that it's not Kosher after all. He then points out that the Israelites wouldn't have gotten that far without an innate sense of right and wrong.

Good point made by Hitchens.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
EvanK
Posts: 599
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6/25/2012 4:48:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/25/2012 9:30:31 AM, TheOrator wrote:
My simple thought is that the absence of religion -Christianity or otherwise- does not gaurantee immorality any more than the inclusion of religion gaurantees morality. Athiests and Christians alike can be immoral at their own discretion.

I agree, I just get annoyed of the people who believe religion is necessary for morality to exist.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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6/25/2012 9:42:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/25/2012 9:30:31 AM, TheOrator wrote:
My simple thought is that the absence of religion -Christianity or otherwise- does not gaurantee immorality any more than the inclusion of religion gaurantees morality. Athiests and Christians alike can be immoral at their own discretion.

It turns out that atheists, on average, are more moral human beings.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
EvanK
Posts: 599
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6/25/2012 9:54:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/25/2012 9:30:31 AM, TheOrator wrote:
My simple thought is that the absence of religion -Christianity or otherwise- does not guarantee immorality any more than the inclusion of religion guarantees morality. Atheists and Christians alike can be immoral at their own discretion.

The presence of religion doesn't guarantee morality either...
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain