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Faith rattled

Rational_Thinker9119
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6/27/2012 3:28:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm just curious, what has, or could, test your faith? Maybe having your children die at birth or something of the sorts? I talked to a priest not too long ago and he told me he questions his faith every day...I'm just wondering how many Christians feel the same to a certain extent, and what would cause this.
popculturepooka
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6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Rational_Thinker9119
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6/27/2012 3:41:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.

Interesting. My question though for Christians is, personally, what would cause this for you? What type of situation?
Paradox_7
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6/27/2012 3:52:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 3:41:23 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.

Interesting. My question though for Christians is, personally, what would cause this for you? What type of situation?


I believe, it's me, that causes doubt; my desires and frustrations.

I couldn't describe, in advance, what would rattle my faith, as it usually takes place when my emotions get the best of me. But, i am surely convicted upon having such thoughts.. so they vanish as quickly as they arise.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
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6/27/2012 3:54:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What would cause you to have faith? (if, there was somthing outside of the Holy Spirit, that could do such a thing)
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/27/2012 3:54:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 3:52:09 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:41:23 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.

Interesting. My question though for Christians is, personally, what would cause this for you? What type of situation?


I believe, it's me, that causes doubt; my desires and frustrations.

I couldn't describe, in advance, what would rattle my faith, as it usually takes place when my emotions get the best of me. But, i am surely convicted upon having such thoughts.. so they vanish as quickly as they arise.

That's not what I was asking lol Oh well...
Paradox_7
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6/27/2012 3:56:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 3:54:18 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:52:09 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:41:23 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.

Interesting. My question though for Christians is, personally, what would cause this for you? What type of situation?


I believe, it's me, that causes doubt; my desires and frustrations.

I couldn't describe, in advance, what would rattle my faith, as it usually takes place when my emotions get the best of me. But, i am surely convicted upon having such thoughts.. so they vanish as quickly as they arise.

That's not what I was asking lol Oh well...

Like i said.. i couldn't tell yah, and i don't think anyone else could either..
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/27/2012 4:01:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 3:56:13 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:54:18 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:52:09 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:41:23 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.

Interesting. My question though for Christians is, personally, what would cause this for you? What type of situation?


I believe, it's me, that causes doubt; my desires and frustrations.

I couldn't describe, in advance, what would rattle my faith, as it usually takes place when my emotions get the best of me. But, i am surely convicted upon having such thoughts.. so they vanish as quickly as they arise.

That's not what I was asking lol Oh well...

Like i said.. i couldn't tell yah, and i don't think anyone else could either..

No, a few Christians I have talked to had no problem answering my question. I talked to a priest not too long ago who said his faith in God was rattled when his babies died at birth and he questions his faith all the time. All I'm asking is what situation would cause this to happen to you, or what situation has happened which caused this to happen to you? Of course, I'm not implying your reason would provide a basis as an argument against God (Not that it would be a very strong one anyway), I'm just genuinely curious...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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6/27/2012 4:04:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
When I converted, it was over the issue of science and the bible. I don't think it now but back then if there was something inaccurate in the bible then the whole thing must be wrong. I converted to Deism.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Rational_Thinker9119
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6/27/2012 4:06:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 3:58:47 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
I actually completely lost all faith in a benevolent god. Wasn't even a rattling....

Oddly enough, not all Christians believe in an omnibenevolent God. One dude at my work said "God isn't all loving, he can be vengeful as well, but he still loves us..".
THEBOMB
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6/27/2012 4:08:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A couple summers ago, I traveled through organizations to Uganda, the Dominican Republic, and Haiti. The problem of evil really means much more when you're actually experiencing and seeing the evil present. I've never really ascribed to one religious view or philosophy, but I just can't reconcile a benevolent god and evil, tried to, but just can't...
THEBOMB
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6/27/2012 4:10:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 4:06:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:58:47 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
I actually completely lost all faith in a benevolent god. Wasn't even a rattling....

Oddly enough, not all Christians believe in an omnibenevolent God. One dude at my work said "God isn't all loving, he can be vengeful as well, but he still loves us..".

If the Christian god is defined as a standard of goodness.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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6/27/2012 4:10:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 4:06:55 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:58:47 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
I actually completely lost all faith in a benevolent god. Wasn't even a rattling....

Oddly enough, not all Christians believe in an omnibenevolent God. One dude at my work said "God isn't all loving, he can be vengeful as well, but he still loves us..".

There are many Christians who believe God isn't all-loving. Don't think it's odd.

Anyways, what first rattled my faith was gaining an open-mind. Though it was a long time after that before I became a Deist.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Rational_Thinker9119
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6/27/2012 4:13:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 4:08:50 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
A couple summers ago, I traveled through organizations to Uganda, the Dominican Republic, and Haiti. The problem of evil really means much more when you're actually experiencing and seeing the evil present. I've never really ascribed to one religious view or philosophy, but I just can't reconcile a benevolent god and evil, tried to, but just can't...

The funny thing is, many Christians will tell me that the quantum vacuum is a necessary cause because without it the quantum events in question wouldn't exist, even if there are no sufficient cause for a certain quantum event, it would still be caused by the necessary cause regardless. However, using this logic, God is the necessary cause of evil, and God caused evil.
Paradox_7
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6/27/2012 4:57:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 4:01:27 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:56:13 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:54:18 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:52:09 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:41:23 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.

Interesting. My question though for Christians is, personally, what would cause this for you? What type of situation?


I believe, it's me, that causes doubt; my desires and frustrations.

I couldn't describe, in advance, what would rattle my faith, as it usually takes place when my emotions get the best of me. But, i am surely convicted upon having such thoughts.. so they vanish as quickly as they arise.

That's not what I was asking lol Oh well...

Like i said.. i couldn't tell yah, and i don't think anyone else could either..

No, a few Christians I have talked to had no problem answering my question. I talked to a priest not too long ago who said his faith in God was rattled when his babies died at birth and he questions his faith all the time. All I'm asking is what situation would cause this to happen to you, or what situation has happened which caused this to happen to you? Of course, I'm not implying your reason would provide a basis as an argument against God (Not that it would be a very strong one anyway), I'm just genuinely curious...


Look, i'm sure this won't mean much to you, but when you understand Law and Gospel, there isn't anything i can think of, that would make me blame God, or lose my faith in him.

Granted-- i've never lost a child, and i'm sure i'd be destroyed if ay of my children were to die. However, i have lost friends & family. Relatives have lost children, at birth, and in their teens, none ever lost faith.

I understand your question is genuine, i don't think you are prying for a reason to argue. I was answering honestly, within my experience and understanding.

Something insightful, in regards to rattled faith, if you want to know why i feel so confident in my position.. is the book of Job.

Homie lost all of his kids, his land, property, health.. even his wife and friends were telling him to curse God, and put an end to all his suffering. Point is: none of us are responsible for our faith, so none of us can deny it.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/27/2012 5:20:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 4:57:06 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 4:01:27 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:56:13 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:54:18 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:52:09 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:41:23 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.

Interesting. My question though for Christians is, personally, what would cause this for you? What type of situation?


I believe, it's me, that causes doubt; my desires and frustrations.

I couldn't describe, in advance, what would rattle my faith, as it usually takes place when my emotions get the best of me. But, i am surely convicted upon having such thoughts.. so they vanish as quickly as they arise.

That's not what I was asking lol Oh well...

Like i said.. i couldn't tell yah, and i don't think anyone else could either..

No, a few Christians I have talked to had no problem answering my question. I talked to a priest not too long ago who said his faith in God was rattled when his babies died at birth and he questions his faith all the time. All I'm asking is what situation would cause this to happen to you, or what situation has happened which caused this to happen to you? Of course, I'm not implying your reason would provide a basis as an argument against God (Not that it would be a very strong one anyway), I'm just genuinely curious...


Look, i'm sure this won't mean much to you, but when you understand Law and Gospel, there isn't anything i can think of, that would make me blame God, or lose my faith in him.

Granted-- i've never lost a child, and i'm sure i'd be destroyed if ay of my children were to die. However, i have lost friends & family. Relatives have lost children, at birth, and in their teens, none ever lost faith.

I understand your question is genuine, i don't think you are prying for a reason to argue. I was answering honestly, within my experience and understanding.

Something insightful, in regards to rattled faith, if you want to know why i feel so confident in my position.. is the book of Job.

Homie lost all of his kids, his land, property, health.. even his wife and friends were telling him to curse God, and put an end to all his suffering. Point is: none of us are responsible for our faith, so none of us can deny it.

Considering most Atheists were former Christians with faith, there is no basis for claiming that nobody with faith, couldn't eventually have their faith rattled by a situation that happened to them, or deny their faith outright due to many situations that happened to them. Also I have spoken to many Christians who have told me that situation "x" rattled their faith, and they question their faith all the time, but still obviously genuinely believe in God regardless. These situations would just be little hurdles....However, if no situation you have been in shook your faith in God at all, then this thread is not directed at you unfortunately (maybe I should have been more clear in the OP).
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
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6/27/2012 5:21:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.8

Good answer
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/27/2012 5:22:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 5:21:24 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.8

Good answer

It was a good comment, but it was not a good answer to the specific question I was asking.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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6/27/2012 5:34:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 5:20:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 4:57:06 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 4:01:27 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:56:13 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:54:18 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:52:09 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:41:23 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.

Interesting. My question though for Christians is, personally, what would cause this for you? What type of situation?


I believe, it's me, that causes doubt; my desires and frustrations.

I couldn't describe, in advance, what would rattle my faith, as it usually takes place when my emotions get the best of me. But, i am surely convicted upon having such thoughts.. so they vanish as quickly as they arise.

That's not what I was asking lol Oh well...

Like i said.. i couldn't tell yah, and i don't think anyone else could either..

No, a few Christians I have talked to had no problem answering my question. I talked to a priest not too long ago who said his faith in God was rattled when his babies died at birth and he questions his faith all the time. All I'm asking is what situation would cause this to happen to you, or what situation has happened which caused this to happen to you? Of course, I'm not implying your reason would provide a basis as an argument against God (Not that it would be a very strong one anyway), I'm just genuinely curious...


Look, i'm sure this won't mean much to you, but when you understand Law and Gospel, there isn't anything i can think of, that would make me blame God, or lose my faith in him.

Granted-- i've never lost a child, and i'm sure i'd be destroyed if ay of my children were to die. However, i have lost friends & family. Relatives have lost children, at birth, and in their teens, none ever lost faith.

I understand your question is genuine, i don't think you are prying for a reason to argue. I was answering honestly, within my experience and understanding.

Something insightful, in regards to rattled faith, if you want to know why i feel so confident in my position.. is the book of Job.

Homie lost all of his kids, his land, property, health.. even his wife and friends were telling him to curse God, and put an end to all his suffering. Point is: none of us are responsible for our faith, so none of us can deny it.

Considering most Atheists were former Christians with faith, there is no basis for claiming that nobody with faith, couldn't eventually have their faith rattled by a situation that happened to them, or deny their faith outright due to many situations that happened to them.

Like i've said before, i deny someone being a true believer or having "actual" faith, and leaving.. it's very clear in my source of proof (bible) that people who leave, were never a part of it to begin with. I deny that one can reject their faith, if they truly have it.

I didn't say it was impossible to be rattled; i said i couldn't think of a situation where that would happen-- based on my knowledge of what faith is.

Also I have spoken to many Christians who have told me that situation "x" rattled their faith, and they question their faith all the time, but still obviously genuinely believe in God regardless. These situations would just be little hurdles....However, if no situation you have been in shook your faith in God at all, then this thread is not directed at you unfortunately (maybe I should have been more clear in the OP).


I understand that, and i'm sure you will encounter many, who can name and predict their own blasphemy (i'm sure that says a lot about their beliefs); I have input, and i wished to express it on your post.. i believe i am able to do that, since my post and your topic ARE related.. even if you didn't get the exact answer you were looking for.

It seems everyone is responding similarly. >_<
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/27/2012 5:52:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 5:34:04 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 5:20:22 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 4:57:06 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 4:01:27 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:56:13 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:54:18 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:52:09 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:41:23 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.

Interesting. My question though for Christians is, personally, what would cause this for you? What type of situation?


I believe, it's me, that causes doubt; my desires and frustrations.

I couldn't describe, in advance, what would rattle my faith, as it usually takes place when my emotions get the best of me. But, i am surely convicted upon having such thoughts.. so they vanish as quickly as they arise.

That's not what I was asking lol Oh well...

Like i said.. i couldn't tell yah, and i don't think anyone else could either..

No, a few Christians I have talked to had no problem answering my question. I talked to a priest not too long ago who said his faith in God was rattled when his babies died at birth and he questions his faith all the time. All I'm asking is what situation would cause this to happen to you, or what situation has happened which caused this to happen to you? Of course, I'm not implying your reason would provide a basis as an argument against God (Not that it would be a very strong one anyway), I'm just genuinely curious...


Look, i'm sure this won't mean much to you, but when you understand Law and Gospel, there isn't anything i can think of, that would make me blame God, or lose my faith in him.

Granted-- i've never lost a child, and i'm sure i'd be destroyed if ay of my children were to die. However, i have lost friends & family. Relatives have lost children, at birth, and in their teens, none ever lost faith.

I understand your question is genuine, i don't think you are prying for a reason to argue. I was answering honestly, within my experience and understanding.

Something insightful, in regards to rattled faith, if you want to know why i feel so confident in my position.. is the book of Job.

Homie lost all of his kids, his land, property, health.. even his wife and friends were telling him to curse God, and put an end to all his suffering. Point is: none of us are responsible for our faith, so none of us can deny it.

Considering most Atheists were former Christians with faith, there is no basis for claiming that nobody with faith, couldn't eventually have their faith rattled by a situation that happened to them, or deny their faith outright due to many situations that happened to them.

Like i've said before, i deny someone being a true believer or having "actual" faith, and leaving.. it's very clear in my source of proof (bible) that people who leave, were never a part of it to begin with. I deny that one can reject their faith, if they truly have it.

This is a pretty absurd opinion to hold. This is like saying if you break up with your girlfriend, you never really loved her. However, anyone who has ever been in a relationship can tell you that you will have genuine feelings for a person at a certain time, then things can change. This doesn't mean the feelings were never genuine, this is a fallacy. So in the same sense, someone can have genuine faith in God like any other Christian, and have different situations happen to them at a different time and use a different line of thinking and not have that faith anymore.


I didn't say it was impossible to be rattled; i said i couldn't think of a situation where that would happen-- based on my knowledge of what faith is.

Also I have spoken to many Christians who have told me that situation "x" rattled their faith, and they question their faith all the time, but still obviously genuinely believe in God regardless. These situations would just be little hurdles....However, if no situation you have been in shook your faith in God at all, then this thread is not directed at you unfortunately (maybe I should have been more clear in the OP).


I understand that, and i'm sure you will encounter many, who can name and predict their own blasphemy (i'm sure that says a lot about their beliefs); I have input, and i wished to express it on your post.. i believe i am able to do that, since my post and your topic ARE related.. even if you didn't get the exact answer you were looking for.

It seems everyone is responding similarly. >_<
popculturepooka
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6/27/2012 6:24:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 3:41:23 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 3:38:43 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
The name "israel" means "to struggle with God". Christianity is ostensibly a historical religion coming from judaism . I think if a christian hasn't had their faith rattled their probably doing it wrong.

Interesting. My question though for Christians is, personally, what would cause this for you? What type of situation?

Some situations that have caused this for me in the past (although, I suspect 1 will plague me for the rest of my life) were:

1) Considering the sheer amount of horrendous evils* in the world. Everything ranging from children starving to natural disasters to mass genocide to oppression to etc. I've never found the typical answers in any way compelling and they've often seemed to me transparently trite and weak. What's even worse to me is those who dismiss the problem as a "pseudo" problem.

2) Considering the thought that an all-loving, perfectly good, and all-powerful God could either: a) condemn a person to hell forever or b) let someone condemn themselves to hell forever.

3) Getting into biblical studies - into REAL biblical studies - and finding out that doctrines like inerrancy are REALLY hard to defend.

Different Christians find different things challenging to their faith.

* I mean horrendous evil in a very specific sense: "A further category of evil that has recently played an important role in discussions on the problem of evil is horrendous evil. This may be defined, following Marilyn Adams (1999: 26), as evil "the participation in which (that is, the doing or suffering of which) constitutes prima facie reason to doubt whether the participant's life could (given their inclusion in it) be a great good to him/her on the whole." As examples of such evil, Adams lists "the rape of a woman and axing off of her arms, psycho-physical torture whose ultimate goal is the disintegration of personality, betrayal of one's deepest loyalties, child abuse of the sort described by Ivan Karamazov, child pornography, parental incest, slow death by starvation, the explosion of nuclear bombs over populated areas" (p.26)."

http://www.iep.utm.edu...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Tnkissfan
Posts: 199
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6/27/2012 6:42:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 3:28:06 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
I'm just curious, what has, or could, test your faith? Maybe having your children die at birth or something of the sorts? I talked to a priest not too long ago and he told me he questions his faith every day...I'm just wondering how many Christians feel the same to a certain extent, and what would cause this.

I suppose something I truly cherish being taken away,such as my eyesight or hearing. That would cause me to question my faith. I guess in a sense we do question our faith more than we realize but its probably not a big thing for the average person but to a priest, that has to hear peoples confessions and see much more unfortunate conditions heaped upon those that are at the edge already, I imagine its a much more difficult road. Sort of like dancing on the backs of the bruised (thanks Trent). Men in the position of a priest or minister see much more heartache than the average individual yet the bulk of them remain in the position chosen by them. Theres not a rash of men of faith becoming atheists though I know there are SOME,but thank God its a small percentage.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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6/27/2012 7:44:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 5:52:46 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
This is a pretty absurd opinion to hold. This is like saying if you break up with your girlfriend, you never really loved her. However, anyone who has ever been in a relationship can tell you that you will have genuine feelings for a person at a certain time, then things can change. This doesn't mean the feelings were never genuine, this is a fallacy. So in the same sense, someone can have genuine faith in God like any other Christian, and have different situations happen to them at a different time and use a different line of thinking and not have that faith anymore.


Lol, whats absurd, is that you condemn personal experience as an invalid source of proof, then appeal to a persons experience, by stating a person can have true love, and lose it eventually..It absolutely, implies that the vanquished love between that couple, wasn't that of a couple who's been together til death (old age).

Very poor example.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
InquireTruth
Posts: 723
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6/27/2012 7:57:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1) Considering the sheer amount of horrendous evils* in the world. Everything ranging from children starving to natural disasters to mass genocide to oppression to etc. I've never found the typical answers in any way compelling and they've often seemed to me transparently trite and weak. What's even worse to me is those who dismiss the problem as a "pseudo" problem.

I maintain that it's not a problem--as off-putting as it is--and would probably aptly describe it as "pseudo." You should consider debating me on the matter. Though I would call it a fundamentally real pastoralproblem, wherein the problem is not a sincere theological one, but rather a deeply entrenched emotional problem.
Rational_Thinker9119
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6/27/2012 8:15:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 7:44:13 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 5:52:46 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
This is a pretty absurd opinion to hold. This is like saying if you break up with your girlfriend, you never really loved her. However, anyone who has ever been in a relationship can tell you that you will have genuine feelings for a person at a certain time, then things can change. This doesn't mean the feelings were never genuine, this is a fallacy. So in the same sense, someone can have genuine faith in God like any other Christian, and have different situations happen to them at a different time and use a different line of thinking and not have that faith anymore.


Lol, whats absurd, is that you condemn personal experience as an invalid source of proof, then appeal to a persons experience, by stating a person can have true love, and lose it eventually..It absolutely, implies that the vanquished love between that couple, wasn't that of a couple who's been together til death (old age).

Very poor example.

"Lol, whats absurd, is that you condemn personal experience as an invalid source of proof, then appeal to a persons experience"

I think you are equivocating, what do you mean by "experience"?

"It absolutely, implies that the vanquished love between that couple, wasn't that of a couple who's been together til death (old age)"

Just because the love lasts longer and they stay so long with each other that they get attached to the max doesn't mean that if the relationship broke off sooner, the same feelings of love wouldn't have been genuine. I just don't buy that for a second.
Paradox_7
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6/27/2012 8:33:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 8:15:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 7:44:13 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 5:52:46 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
This is a pretty absurd opinion to hold. This is like saying if you break up with your girlfriend, you never really loved her. However, anyone who has ever been in a relationship can tell you that you will have genuine feelings for a person at a certain time, then things can change. This doesn't mean the feelings were never genuine, this is a fallacy. So in the same sense, someone can have genuine faith in God like any other Christian, and have different situations happen to them at a different time and use a different line of thinking and not have that faith anymore.


Lol, whats absurd, is that you condemn personal experience as an invalid source of proof, then appeal to a persons experience, by stating a person can have true love, and lose it eventually..It absolutely, implies that the vanquished love between that couple, wasn't that of a couple who's been together til death (old age).

Very poor example.

"Lol, whats absurd, is that you condemn personal experience as an invalid source of proof, then appeal to a persons experience"

I think you are equivocating, what do you mean by "experience"?

"It absolutely, implies that the vanquished love between that couple, wasn't that of a couple who's been together til death (old age)"

Just because the love lasts longer and they stay so long with each other that they get attached to the max doesn't mean that if the relationship broke off sooner, the same feelings of love wouldn't have been genuine. I just don't buy that for a second.


Look, I can concede that a person can fall out of love, and that they genuinely loved at some point in time.. however that is not the same as the long term couple; moreover, this analogy isn't the same as Faith.

You can disagree all you want, but people who leave their faiths, never we comfortable there. You even said youself that your mom used to "force" you to go..

Am i supposed to buy that you had complete faith in God at one point, even though you were made to go, unwillingly; then you had some sort of ground breaking (all to familiar) epiphany-- that persuaded you from your reluctant faith?

Gimme a break.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/27/2012 8:36:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 8:15:11 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 7:44:13 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 5:52:46 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
This is a pretty absurd opinion to hold. This is like saying if you break up with your girlfriend, you never really loved her. However, anyone who has ever been in a relationship can tell you that you will have genuine feelings for a person at a certain time, then things can change. This doesn't mean the feelings were never genuine, this is a fallacy. So in the same sense, someone can have genuine faith in God like any other Christian, and have different situations happen to them at a different time and use a different line of thinking and not have that faith anymore.


Lol, whats absurd, is that you condemn personal experience as an invalid source of proof, then appeal to a persons experience, by stating a person can have true love, and lose it eventually..It absolutely, implies that the vanquished love between that couple, wasn't that of a couple who's been together til death (old age).

Very poor example.

"Lol, whats absurd, is that you condemn personal experience as an invalid source of proof, then appeal to a persons experience"

I think you are equivocating, what do you mean by "experience"?

"It absolutely, implies that the vanquished love between that couple, wasn't that of a couple who's been together til death (old age)"

Just because the love lasts longer and they stay so long with each other that they get attached to the max doesn't mean that if the relationship broke off sooner, the same feelings of love wouldn't have been genuine. I just don't buy that for a second.

"Am i supposed to buy that you had complete faith in God at one point, even though you were made to go, unwillingly; then you had some sort of ground breaking (all to familiar) epiphany-- that persuaded you from your reluctant faith?

Gimme a break."

I was forced to go to church, not believe in God. You give me a break lol
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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6/28/2012 1:16:15 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 4:08:50 PM, THEBOMB wrote:
A couple summers ago, I traveled through organizations to Uganda, the Dominican Republic, and Haiti. The problem of evil really means much more when you're actually experiencing and seeing the evil present. I've never really ascribed to one religious view or philosophy, but I just can't reconcile a benevolent god and evil, tried to, but just can't...

The logical problem of evil or probabilistic problem of evil?