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Is God Self-Evident or a Matter of Faith?

s-anthony
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6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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6/27/2012 11:37:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

I honestly believe He's self evident. Thats part of the reason why he sent Jesus. God gave us intelligence and free will and He wants us to use them. It takes a lot of digging around and soul searching but tye evidence is there.

I think theres a big difference between faith and blind faith. Jesus wanted us to have faith in Him based off of who He was and what He did. I dont think He wants us to have blind faith.

I would be more specific and throw in some Bible verses but im typing this on my kindle so im too lazy haha
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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6/27/2012 11:59:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 11:37:57 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
I honestly believe He's self evident. Thats part of the reason why he sent Jesus. God gave us intelligence and free will and He wants us to use them. It takes a lot of digging around and soul searching but tye evidence is there.

So, seeing God as self-evident, why does it take a lot of digging around and soul- searching?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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6/28/2012 12:16:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

How do you associate that which is unknown with that which is known? It is either unknown or it's not. In saying you trust God, or anyone, for that matter, to continue doing that which you deem best is having faith in something unseen, in other words, blind faith.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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6/28/2012 12:25:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:16:54 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

How do you associate that which is unknown with that which is known? It is either unknown or it's not. In saying you trust God, or anyone, for that matter, to continue doing that which you deem best is having faith in something unseen, in other words, blind faith.

Let me use an example.
You know your mother is not going to kill you the next time you see her. In fact, you would say your dead certain she will not. How can you possibly be certain of this?

Because of the past experiences with her. You Trust her. You know her. Your knowledge and Trust in here is based on evidence of past interaction.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2012 12:29:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.

Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true. I've been in your frame of mind before - claiming to be communicating with God through prayer. What could be more sincere than a 5 year old's blind trust of a deity? But it's such a fantastic lie!

This is why christians have a hard time converting atheists. You garner justification for your beliefs, not from logic, but from an emotive-assumptive basis that you invented for yourselves. If God is real, he made it such that logic is the objective test of truth to humans.

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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6/28/2012 12:41:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:29:28 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.

Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true. I've been in your frame of mind before - claiming to be communicating with God through prayer. What could be more sincere than a 5 year old's blind trust of a deity? But it's such a fantastic lie!

Wow. You convinced me.


This is why christians have a hard time converting atheists. You garner justification for your beliefs, not from logic, but from an emotive-assumptive basis that you invented for yourselves. If God is real, he made it such that logic is the objective test of truth to humans.

Logic is paramount to the Christian. Natural Philosophy is a part of Theology.


If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.

God is mandated via logic.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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6/28/2012 12:41:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

s-anthony: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God,"

The Fool: That is because back then they actually thougt The mind was in the heart. Literally, That is where the metaphore comes from. God, was not that Good at biology, back then. Maybe he learned better now.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

The Fool: But you would have to know before using the bible. Because if the 'idea' was learned from reading the Bible it acts as a Confounding variable.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/28/2012 12:46:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:29:28 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.

Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true. I've been in your frame of mind before - claiming to be communicating with God through prayer. What could be more sincere than a 5 year old's blind trust of a deity? But it's such a fantastic lie!

This is why christians have a hard time converting atheists. You garner justification for your beliefs, not from logic, but from an emotive-assumptive basis that you invented for yourselves. If God is real, he made it such that logic is the objective test of truth to humans.

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.

People have experiences with God all the time. True experiences.

If religion was all false wouldn't it be gone by now? Wouldn't we realize that it's all in our heads?

It's still around for a reason. Judaism and Christianity are some of the longest lasting religions in history because they're based in truth and their followers know this.
Jessalyn
Posts: 125
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6/28/2012 12:46:20 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 11:37:57 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

I honestly believe He's self evident. Thats part of the reason why he sent Jesus. God gave us intelligence and free will and He wants us to use them. It takes a lot of digging around and soul searching but tye evidence is there.

I think theres a big difference between faith and blind faith. Jesus wanted us to have faith in Him based off of who He was and what He did. I dont think He wants us to have blind faith.

I would be more specific and throw in some Bible verses but im typing this on my kindle so im too lazy haha

There is no un-blind faith. If it's faith, it's blind. You have no evidence to support it, no real reason to possess it, therefore it is blind.
WARNING: Hitchslaps may become inflamed when accompanied by unceasing stupidity.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/28/2012 12:49:09 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:46:20 AM, Jessalyn wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:37:57 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

I honestly believe He's self evident. Thats part of the reason why he sent Jesus. God gave us intelligence and free will and He wants us to use them. It takes a lot of digging around and soul searching but tye evidence is there.

I think theres a big difference between faith and blind faith. Jesus wanted us to have faith in Him based off of who He was and what He did. I dont think He wants us to have blind faith.

I would be more specific and throw in some Bible verses but im typing this on my kindle so im too lazy haha

There is no un-blind faith. If it's faith, it's blind. You have no evidence to support it, no real reason to possess it, therefore it is blind.

False. When you stand on a balcony you have faith that it's not going to collapse beneath you and kill you. If you didn't then you wouldn't stand on it.

Is your faith in the balcony completely blind? No. But you trust that the people who built it, people you've never seen before, have built it so that it doesn't fall.

You have faith in the balcony based on things you've never seen and things you don't understand but it's based off of known things, past experiences and assumptions. It's in no way blind.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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6/28/2012 12:49:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:46:20 AM, Jessalyn wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:37:57 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

I honestly believe He's self evident. Thats part of the reason why he sent Jesus. God gave us intelligence and free will and He wants us to use them. It takes a lot of digging around and soul searching but tye evidence is there.

I think theres a big difference between faith and blind faith. Jesus wanted us to have faith in Him based off of who He was and what He did. I dont think He wants us to have blind faith.

I would be more specific and throw in some Bible verses but im typing this on my kindle so im too lazy haha

There is no un-blind faith. If it's faith, it's blind. You have no evidence to support it, no real reason to possess it, therefore it is blind.

That is not a proper theological definition. Faith is Trust in future promises based on past fulfilled promises.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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6/28/2012 1:00:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:41:07 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:29:28 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

The Fool: Faith is Simply EXPECTATION.

As in (I have faith that the bus is coming soon.)=(I expect that the bus is coming soon.)

The Fool: I can literally see your 'ideas' through your words. Be carefall what you Write.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.

The Fool: You don't know Gods promises. You are just trusting other people who trust other people who trust other people, who trust Mythology.. There is no demarcation in the definition of God to even know if you experience God or not.
Holy(just means special) Ghost in the Bible just means (violent air) And spirit comes from (breath air) It was put together by the Greek speaking Byzantium Empire. Those are the original meanings. Because that is what they meant at that time. You can't after just alter what every you want after to make it fit with modern times. No Body has authority to modify Gods word.


Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true. I've been in your frame of mind before - claiming to be communicating with God through prayer. What could be more sincere than a 5 year old's blind trust of a deity? But it's such a fantastic lie!

Wow. You convinced me.


This is why christians have a hard time converting atheists. You garner justification for your beliefs, not from logic, but from an emotive-assumptive basis that you invented for yourselves. If God is real, he made it such that logic is the objective test of truth to humans.

Logic is paramount to the Christian. Natural Philosophy is a part of Theology.

The Fool: !!!!??????? Maybe in some possible worlds..<(XD) not this one. But first you have to proof that there is other worlds first.

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.

God is mandated via logic.

The Fool: oh God that is so wrong in so many ways. PROOF= LOGIC you are asking a circular question. You can't help use logic whether you want to or not, I can expose the logic in every sentence in this page, You don't even need to know what logic is to be very logical.

The Fool: are you able to refute any of my argument. or all they ALL FATAL blows!.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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6/28/2012 1:10:06 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:46:07 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:29:28 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.

Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true. I've been in your frame of mind before - claiming to be communicating with God through prayer. What could be more sincere than a 5 year old's blind trust of a deity? But it's such a fantastic lie!

This is why christians have a hard time converting atheists. You garner justification for your beliefs, not from logic, but from an emotive-assumptive basis that you invented for yourselves. If God is real, he made it such that logic is the objective test of truth to humans.

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.

People have experiences with God all the time. True experiences.

The Fool: You can't even know if what they experience was God. First 'God' is a word, which refers to an "idea", we all have an idea of 'God' the problem is showing that God doesn not just exist in you mind. How do you know that God is something which exist external to your mind.

If religion was all false wouldn't it be gone by now? Wouldn't we realize that it's all in our heads?

The Fool: no because people keep teaching it to there Children (mind slavery) and they are brain washed, so early on they don't have a change. Even people who are born again tend to do it because they did something really bad, or all ready not right in the head. It Give people fast and easy answers to there question, are false.

It's still around for a reason. Judaism and Christianity are some of the longest lasting religions in history because they're based in truth and their followers know this.

The Fool: no they are not, back then people would believe anything. There was not police system, nore education so it was common to make myths to get the people to word together. By telling them power God said so. It is common through history.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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6/28/2012 1:11:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 1:10:06 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:46:07 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:29:28 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.

Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true. I've been in your frame of mind before - claiming to be communicating with God through prayer. What could be more sincere than a 5 year old's blind trust of a deity? But it's such a fantastic lie!

This is why christians have a hard time converting atheists. You garner justification for your beliefs, not from logic, but from an emotive-assumptive basis that you invented for yourselves. If God is real, he made it such that logic is the objective test of truth to humans.

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.

People have experiences with God all the time. True experiences.

The Fool: You can't even know if what they experience was God. First 'God' is a word, which refers to an "idea", we all have an idea of 'God' the problem is showing that God doesn not just exist in you mind. How do you know that God is something which exist external to your mind.

If religion was all false wouldn't it be gone by now? Wouldn't we realize that it's all in our heads?

The Fool: no because people keep teaching it to there Children (mind slavery) and they are brain washed, so early on they don't have a change. Even people who are born again tend to do it because they did something really bad, or all ready not right in the head. It Give people fast and easy answers to there question, are false.


It's still around for a reason. Judaism and Christianity are some of the longest lasting religions in history because they're based in truth and their followers know this.

The Fool: no they are not, back then people would believe anything. There was not police system, nore education so it was common to make myths to get the people to word together. By telling them power God said so. It is common through history.

So why aren't the Greek gods still living? If what you've said is all true then they should be alive and well.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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6/28/2012 4:31:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 1:11:32 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/28/2012 1:10:06 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:46:07 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:29:28 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.

Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true. I've been in your frame of mind before - claiming to be communicating with God through prayer. What could be more sincere than a 5 year old's blind trust of a deity? But it's such a fantastic lie!

This is why christians have a hard time converting atheists. You garner justification for your beliefs, not from logic, but from an emotive-assumptive basis that you invented for yourselves. If God is real, he made it such that logic is the objective test of truth to humans.

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.

People have experiences with God all the time. True experiences.

The Fool: You can't even know if what they experience was God. First 'God' is a word, which refers to an "idea", we all have an idea of 'God' the problem is showing that God doesn not just exist in you mind. How do you know that God is something which exist external to your mind.

If religion was all false wouldn't it be gone by now? Wouldn't we realize that it's all in our heads?

The Fool: no because people keep teaching it to there Children (mind slavery) and they are brain washed, so early on they don't have a change. Even people who are born again tend to do it because they did something really bad, or all ready not right in the head. It Give people fast and easy answers to there question, are false.


It's still around for a reason. Judaism and Christianity are some of the longest lasting religions in history because they're based in truth and their followers know this.

The Fool: no they are not, back then people would believe anything. There was not police system, nore education so it was common to make myths to get the people to word together. By telling them power God said so. It is common through history.

So why aren't the Greek gods still living? If what you've said is all true then they should be alive and well.

The Fool: they were never living, it was just another mythology, in the end, Only zeus was worshiped and it is argued that he the modal for the one God of Christianty.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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6/28/2012 9:39:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:29:28 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.

Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true. I've been in your frame of mind before - claiming to be communicating with God through prayer. What could be more sincere than a 5 year old's blind trust of a deity? But it's such a fantastic lie!

This is why christians have a hard time converting atheists. You garner justification for your beliefs, not from logic, but from an emotive-assumptive basis that you invented for yourselves. If God is real, he made it such that logic is the objective test of truth to humans.

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.

Your a idiot.
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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6/28/2012 9:41:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:46:20 AM, Jessalyn wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:37:57 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

I honestly believe He's self evident. Thats part of the reason why he sent Jesus. God gave us intelligence and free will and He wants us to use them. It takes a lot of digging around and soul searching but tye evidence is there.

I think theres a big difference between faith and blind faith. Jesus wanted us to have faith in Him based off of who He was and what He did. I dont think He wants us to have blind faith.

I would be more specific and throw in some Bible verses but im typing this on my kindle so im too lazy haha

There is no un-blind faith. If it's faith, it's blind. You have no evidence to support it, no real reason to possess it, therefore it is blind.

Say's who? You! HAHA
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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6/28/2012 9:43:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.

God is mandated via logic.

The Fool: oh God that is so wrong in so many ways. PROOF= LOGIC you are asking a circular question. You can't help use logic whether you want to or not, I can expose the logic in every sentence in this page, You don't even need to know what logic is to be very logical.

The Fool: are you able to refute any of my argument. or all they ALL FATAL blows!.

So I guess that when God moves in me and speaks to me. Im just crazy and imagining it?
TheAsylum
Tnkissfan
Posts: 199
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6/28/2012 10:45:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 1:10:06 AM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:46:07 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:29:28 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."
U
So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.

Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true. I've been in your frame of mind before - claiming to be communicating with God through prayer. What could be more sincere than a 5 year old's blind trust of a deity? But it's such a fantastic lie!

This is why christians have a hard time converting atheists. You garner justification for your beliefs, not from logic, but from an emotive-assumptive basis that you invented for yourselves. If God is real, he made it such that logic is the objective test of truth to humans.

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.
K
People have experiences with God all the time. True experiences.

The Fool: You can't even know if what they experience was God. First 'God' is a word, which refers to an "idea", we all have an idea of 'God' the problem is showing that God doesn not just exist in you mind. How do you know that God is something which exist external to your mind.

If religion was all false wouldn't it be gone by now? Wouldn't we realize that it's all in our heads?

The Fool: no because people keep teaching it to there Children (mind slavery) and they are brain washed, so early on they don't have a change. Even people who are born again tend to do it because they did something really bad, or all ready not right in the head. It Give people fast and easy answers to there question, are false.


It's still around for a reason. Judaism and Christianity are some of the longest lasting religions in history because they're based in truth and their followers know this.

The Fool: no they are not, back then people would believe anything. There was not police system, nore education so it was common to make myths to get the people to word together. By telling them power God said so. It is common through history.

The Fool: no because people keep teaching it to there Children (mind slavery) and they are brain washed, so early on they don't have a change. Even people who are born again tend to do it because they did something really bad, or all ready not right in the head. It Give people fast and easy answers to there question, are false

WHAT??? quit drinking before you try to construct sentences !!

The Fool: no they are not, back then people would believe anything. There was not police system, nore education so it was common to make myths to get the people to word together. By telling them power God said so. It is common through history.

People still believe it today. There must be something to it because so many still believe in God in this day and age. God may choose to reveal Himself in different ways to different people.Btw,it's rude to tell a group of people they" or all ready not right in the head" which I presume in the non-hammered fools world you meant "we are not right in the head". I don't see anyone claiming atheists are dead from the neck up!
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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6/28/2012 11:26:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 9:43:35 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.

God is mandated via logic.

The Fool: oh God that is so wrong in so many ways. PROOF= LOGIC you are asking a circular question. You can't help use logic whether you want to or not, I can expose the logic in every sentence in this page, You don't even need to know what logic is to be very logical.

The Fool: are you able to refute any of my argument. or all they ALL FATAL blows!.

So I guess that when God moves in me and speaks to me. Im just crazy and imagining it?


That's just it Scotty; they think we're crazy..

This is why, almost everything an atheist implies, is insulting! One way or another, it comes down to either: we're lying, we're brain washed, we're stupid, or we're mentally unstable.

To all of that, I respond: Go f^ck yourselves.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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6/28/2012 11:54:22 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:25:19 AM, Gileandos wrote:
Let me use an example.
You know your mother is not going to kill you the next time you see her. In fact, you would say your dead certain she will not. How can you possibly be certain of this?

Because of the past experiences with her. You Trust her. You know her. Your knowledge and Trust in here is based on evidence of past interaction.

My trust is not in that which has already happened; that's an oxymoron. That's like saying, I trust I will win the lottery, once I have, already, spent the money.

So, trust is not in something that is presently occurring. For example, I'm sitting at my computer. I'm not trusting in the fact my desk chair is holding me or has held me but, that, it will continue holding me. I can say it's very likely it will continue to support my weight, but the fact of the matter is I can't guarantee that will be the case. Why? Because, I can't see into the future; and, since I can't know that which will happen a second from now, my faith in the chair's continued support is, by definition, blind.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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6/28/2012 12:12:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 11:54:22 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:25:19 AM, Gileandos wrote:
Let me use an example.
You know your mother is not going to kill you the next time you see her. In fact, you would say your dead certain she will not. How can you possibly be certain of this?

Because of the past experiences with her. You Trust her. You know her. Your knowledge and Trust in here is based on evidence of past interaction.

My trust is not in that which has already happened; that's an oxymoron. That's like saying, I trust I will win the lottery, once I have, already, spent the money.

So, trust is not in something that is presently occurring. For example, I'm sitting at my computer. I'm not trusting in the fact my desk chair is holding me or has held me but, that, it will continue holding me. I can say it's very likely it will continue to support my weight, but the fact of the matter is I can't guarantee that will be the case. Why? Because, I can't see into the future; and, since I can't know that which will happen a second from now, my faith in the chair's continued support is, by definition, blind.


So you understand the concept, rely on its use everyday, and do so, knowingly, blind.

What about our faith are you having trouble understanding..??
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Charles0103
Posts: 523
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6/28/2012 1:11:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/27/2012 11:59:27 PM, s-anthony wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:37:57 PM, Charles0103 wrote:
I honestly believe He's self evident. Thats part of the reason why he sent Jesus. God gave us intelligence and free will and He wants us to use them. It takes a lot of digging around and soul searching but tye evidence is there.

So, seeing God as self-evident, why does it take a lot of digging around and soul- searching?

He's self evident if you look. He gives us the free will to do that. If God just popped out of nowhere and appeared to everybody and forced us to worship Him, that wouldn't be true love because we wouldn't have a choice, really. Love is a two way street.
"And so I tell you, keep on asking, and you will receive what you ask for. Keep on seeking, and you will find. Keep on knocking, and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives. Everyone who seeks, finds. And to everyone who knocks, the door will be opened." Jesus in Luke 11:9-10
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/28/2012 1:47:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:29:28 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:01:18 AM, Gileandos wrote:
At 6/27/2012 11:17:00 PM, s-anthony wrote:
Growing up I heard Christians often quote, "The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork" and "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God," as though evidence for the existence of God was self-evident; and, you would have to be a fool not to see it all around you.

I, also, heard, ad nauseam, that, "The just shall live by faith."

So, this brings me to the question: if the evidence for God is so obvious, you would have to be a fool, to miss it, then, what need is there of faith?

As so many times here, faith does not mean blind belief. Faith is trusting in something unknown and unseen based upon the known, seen and experienced evidence.

For example, I Trust God's promises about my future from all of my past interaction within Him. This is a reasoned faith based upon evidence.

Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true. I've been in your frame of mind before - claiming to be communicating with God through prayer. What could be more sincere than a 5 year old's blind trust of a deity? But it's such a fantastic lie!

This is why christians have a hard time converting atheists. You garner justification for your beliefs, not from logic, but from an emotive-assumptive basis that you invented for yourselves. If God is real, he made it such that logic is the objective test of truth to humans.

If you can't prove God using logic, then you can't actually argue for God.

"Stop lying! You've never had an experience with God, you've imagined things and assumed things all to convince yourself that whatever you would "like" to be true, "is" true."

Bingo.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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6/28/2012 1:50:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Most of us have been in the Christians shoes at one point, so we know exactly what the Christian means when they say they experienced God. This is why we know it's not true....It's all psychological.
caveat
Posts: 2,137
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6/28/2012 2:02:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 12:12:01 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/28/2012 11:54:22 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:25:19 AM, Gileandos wrote:
Let me use an example.
You know your mother is not going to kill you the next time you see her. In fact, you would say your dead certain she will not. How can you possibly be certain of this?

Because of the past experiences with her. You Trust her. You know her. Your knowledge and Trust in here is based on evidence of past interaction.

My trust is not in that which has already happened; that's an oxymoron. That's like saying, I trust I will win the lottery, once I have, already, spent the money.

So, trust is not in something that is presently occurring. For example, I'm sitting at my computer. I'm not trusting in the fact my desk chair is holding me or has held me but, that, it will continue holding me. I can say it's very likely it will continue to support my weight, but the fact of the matter is I can't guarantee that will be the case. Why? Because, I can't see into the future; and, since I can't know that which will happen a second from now, my faith in the chair's continued support is, by definition, blind.


So you understand the concept, rely on its use everyday, and do so, knowingly, blind.

What about our faith are you having trouble understanding..??

There is no trouble. You are all simply misrepresenting faith. Faith by definition is belief that is not based on proof.

The example of sitting on a chair is inaccurate because it presupposes the fact that the chair even exists in the first place. I don't need faith to trust this chair will hold me up because I know there is a chair. This chair has proved time and time again that it will exist and hold me up.

When your god shows himself to me, I will no longer need faith because I will have proof. Right now, I have not observed any evidence whatsoever, so in order to subscribe to your religion, I will need faith. End of story.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. " Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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6/28/2012 2:26:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 2:02:13 PM, caveat wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:12:01 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/28/2012 11:54:22 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:25:19 AM, Gileandos wrote:
Let me use an example.
You know your mother is not going to kill you the next time you see her. In fact, you would say your dead certain she will not. How can you possibly be certain of this?

Because of the past experiences with her. You Trust her. You know her. Your knowledge and Trust in here is based on evidence of past interaction.

My trust is not in that which has already happened; that's an oxymoron. That's like saying, I trust I will win the lottery, once I have, already, spent the money.

So, trust is not in something that is presently occurring. For example, I'm sitting at my computer. I'm not trusting in the fact my desk chair is holding me or has held me but, that, it will continue holding me. I can say it's very likely it will continue to support my weight, but the fact of the matter is I can't guarantee that will be the case. Why? Because, I can't see into the future; and, since I can't know that which will happen a second from now, my faith in the chair's continued support is, by definition, blind.


So you understand the concept, rely on its use everyday, and do so, knowingly, blind.

What about our faith are you having trouble understanding..??

There is no trouble. You are all simply misrepresenting faith. Faith by definition is belief that is not based on proof.

The example of sitting on a chair is inaccurate because it presupposes the fact that the chair even exists in the first place. I don't need faith to trust this chair will hold me up because I know there is a chair. This chair has proved time and time again that it will exist and hold me up.

When your god shows himself to me, I will no longer need faith because I will have proof. Right now, I have not observed any evidence whatsoever, so in order to subscribe to your religion, I will need faith. End of story.


I do not have faith in God's existance; i have faith in Christ, and God's promise to deliver sinner's through him.

I do not have blind faith in God, because all of creation screams his name to me (and many others).. So what if i can't physically see him; my standards of proof have been met 10 fold, i do require something as lame as a visual to believe in God.

Either way, it doesn't really matter to me whether you find proof or not.. God chooses who will recieve the spirit, based on his purpose. If you live your whole life and never come to this realization-- there was nothing that could have changed it.

It's pretty sad to hear all the smart - dumb ppl on here, split hairs and fling out non-sense to avoid a most certain truth.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
caveat
Posts: 2,137
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6/28/2012 2:32:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 6/28/2012 2:26:57 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/28/2012 2:02:13 PM, caveat wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:12:01 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 6/28/2012 11:54:22 AM, s-anthony wrote:
At 6/28/2012 12:25:19 AM, Gileandos wrote:
Let me use an example.
You know your mother is not going to kill you the next time you see her. In fact, you would say your dead certain she will not. How can you possibly be certain of this?

Because of the past experiences with her. You Trust her. You know her. Your knowledge and Trust in here is based on evidence of past interaction.

My trust is not in that which has already happened; that's an oxymoron. That's like saying, I trust I will win the lottery, once I have, already, spent the money.

So, trust is not in something that is presently occurring. For example, I'm sitting at my computer. I'm not trusting in the fact my desk chair is holding me or has held me but, that, it will continue holding me. I can say it's very likely it will continue to support my weight, but the fact of the matter is I can't guarantee that will be the case. Why? Because, I can't see into the future; and, since I can't know that which will happen a second from now, my faith in the chair's continued support is, by definition, blind.


So you understand the concept, rely on its use everyday, and do so, knowingly, blind.

What about our faith are you having trouble understanding..??

There is no trouble. You are all simply misrepresenting faith. Faith by definition is belief that is not based on proof.

The example of sitting on a chair is inaccurate because it presupposes the fact that the chair even exists in the first place. I don't need faith to trust this chair will hold me up because I know there is a chair. This chair has proved time and time again that it will exist and hold me up.

When your god shows himself to me, I will no longer need faith because I will have proof. Right now, I have not observed any evidence whatsoever, so in order to subscribe to your religion, I will need faith. End of story.


I do not have faith in God's existance; i have faith in Christ, and God's promise to deliver sinner's through him.

I do not have blind faith in God, because all of creation screams his name to me (and many others).. So what if i can't physically see him; my standards of proof have been met 10 fold, i do require something as lame as a visual to believe in God.

Either way, it doesn't really matter to me whether you find proof or not.. God chooses who will recieve the spirit, based on his purpose. If you live your whole life and never come to this realization-- there was nothing that could have changed it.

It's pretty sad to hear all the smart - dumb ppl on here, split hairs and fling out non-sense to avoid a most certain truth.

Okay. Nothing you say there contradicts what I said.

I haven't perceived this "spirit" with any of my five senses (or otherwise), so I don't believe. How hard is that to understand? Perhaps you are lucky enough to have done otherwise, good for you.

It's pretty sad when the holier-than-thou assume others are denouncing their beliefs and don't actually read what they post.
There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss. " Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.