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Contradictions in Christianity

ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Perfection and mistakes are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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7/2/2012 1:58:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM, ATHOS wrote:
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Perfection and mistakes are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

You ignore the importance and love of freewill. You ignore your decision and God's knowing to let that choice be yours.
TheAsylum
ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/2/2012 1:58:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
There is no god, at least not the biblical one. The bible is proof of that. A god whose nature is a self contradiction simply cannot exist.
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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7/2/2012 2:03:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 1:58:44 AM, ATHOS wrote:
There is no god, at least not the biblical one. The bible is proof of that. A god whose nature is a self contradiction simply cannot exist.

You have yet to show any contradiction.
TheAsylum
ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/2/2012 2:12:14 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 2:03:32 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:58:44 AM, ATHOS wrote:
There is no god, at least not the biblical one. The bible is proof of that. A god whose nature is a self contradiction simply cannot exist.

You have yet to show any contradiction.

My opening topic clearly shows contradictions.
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/2/2012 2:16:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 1:58:24 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM, ATHOS wrote:
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Perfection and mistakes are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

You ignore the importance and love of freewill. You ignore your decision and God's knowing to let that choice be yours.

I ignore my decision? According to you and your religion, your god created me knowing that I would not believe in him. So, in effect, your god created me to be punished. Doesn't sound very loving.
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/2/2012 2:18:17 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 2:03:32 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:58:44 AM, ATHOS wrote:
There is no god, at least not the biblical one. The bible is proof of that. A god whose nature is a self contradiction simply cannot exist.

You have yet to show any contradiction.

My opening topic clearly shows contradictions.
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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7/2/2012 6:13:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM, ATHOS wrote:
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Why should the sake of those who would freely choose to come into a saving relationship with God be squelched because of the sake of others who don't freely choose Him?

It seems to me that God would have morally sufficient reasons for permitting such a world in which creatures a significantly free to choose a relationship with God.

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Here you're presupposing a literal interpretation of the flood, but how would this objection fair with a person who has a metaphorical interpretation of the flood narative? Suppose such a flood was local as opposed to global, as geological evidence indicates. Wouldn't an all loving God know what free creatures would choose given certain circumstances?

There's nothing imperfect about a God who knows the depravity of man, and so chooses not to sustain their lives (God is under no such obligation) for the sake of those who freely honor him and live a holy life, one that doesn't deprave others.

So it wasn't God who made any mistakes, it was us.

Your objections are unfounded and based on archaic arguments.
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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7/2/2012 6:15:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 2:16:50 AM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:58:24 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM, ATHOS wrote:
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Perfection and mistakes are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

You ignore the importance and love of freewill. You ignore your decision and God's knowing to let that choice be yours.

I ignore my decision? According to you and your religion, your god created me knowing that I would not believe in him. So, in effect, your god created me to be punished. Doesn't sound very loving.

You would have a point were you the only person to exist... but you're not. There are others, many others who freely choose a relationship with God in place of you. Why should they not exist just becuase of a choice you make in this life?
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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7/2/2012 6:20:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 6:15:45 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 2:16:50 AM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:58:24 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM, ATHOS wrote:
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Perfection and mistakes are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

You ignore the importance and love of freewill. You ignore your decision and God's knowing to let that choice be yours.

I ignore my decision? According to you and your religion, your god created me knowing that I would not believe in him. So, in effect, your god created me to be punished. Doesn't sound very loving.

Further still, suppose God in his knowledge created you in the best possible world & time in which you WOULD have the highest probability of choosing him... but still don't- should God still refrain from creating you? Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell, where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness), it's greater to exist than oblivion.
ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/2/2012 8:14:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 6:20:19 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 6:15:45 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 2:16:50 AM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:58:24 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM, ATHOS wrote:
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Perfection and mistakes are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

You ignore the importance and love of freewill. You ignore your decision and God's knowing to let that choice be yours.

I ignore my decision? According to you and your religion, your god created me knowing that I would not believe in him. So, in effect, your god created me to be punished. Doesn't sound very loving.

Further still, suppose God in his knowledge created you in the best possible world & time in which you WOULD have the highest probability of choosing him... but still don't- should God still refrain from creating you? Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell, where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness), it's greater to exist than oblivion.

'Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell, where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness), it's greater to exist than oblivion.'

If a thing doesn't exist, there is no experience--nothing. If I had a choice to go to hell or non-existance, I'de choose the latter. Are you saying you'de choose hell?
Please............. Stop trolling
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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7/2/2012 10:25:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 8:14:12 AM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 6:20:19 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 6:15:45 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 2:16:50 AM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:58:24 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM, ATHOS wrote:
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Perfection and mistakes are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

You ignore the importance and love of freewill. You ignore your decision and God's knowing to let that choice be yours.

I ignore my decision? According to you and your religion, your god created me knowing that I would not believe in him. So, in effect, your god created me to be punished. Doesn't sound very loving.

Further still, suppose God in his knowledge created you in the best possible world & time in which you WOULD have the highest probability of choosing him... but still don't- should God still refrain from creating you? Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell, where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness), it's greater to exist than oblivion.

'Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell, where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness), it's greater to exist than oblivion.'

If a thing doesn't exist, there is no experience--nothing. If I had a choice to go to hell or non-existance, I'de choose the latter. Are you saying you'de choose hell?

I honestly don't think you understand the Christian concept of what hell is. That's one. Two is the fact that something, whatever it is, is ontologically greater than nothing. Yours or my epistemology on the matter is irrelevant.

Please............. Stop trolling

Try this as an idea. I'm not trolling.

Now answer my response to your objections with something better than "nothing is better than something" before I start thinking YOU'RE trolling.
ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/2/2012 6:13:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 10:25:42 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 8:14:12 AM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 6:20:19 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 6:15:45 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 2:16:50 AM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:58:24 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM, ATHOS wrote:
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Perfection and mistakes are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

You ignore the importance and love of freewill. You ignore your decision and God's knowing to let that choice be yours.

I ignore my decision? According to you and your religion, your god created me knowing that I would not believe in him. So, in effect, your god created me to be punished. Doesn't sound very loving.

Further still, suppose God in his knowledge created you in the best possible world & time in which you WOULD have the highest probability of choosing him... but still don't- should God still refrain from creating you? Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell, where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness), it's greater to exist than oblivion.

'Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell, where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness), it's greater to exist than oblivion.'

If a thing doesn't exist, there is no experience--nothing. If I had a choice to go to hell or non-existance, I'de choose the latter. Are you saying you'de choose hell?

I honestly don't think you understand the Christian concept of what hell is. That's one. Two is the fact that something, whatever it is, is ontologically greater than nothing. Yours or my epistemology on the matter is irrelevant.

Please............. Stop trolling

Try this as an idea. I'm not trolling.

Now answer my response to your objections with something better than "nothing is better than something" before I start thinking YOU'RE trolling.

The reason why I thought you were trolling was because of this comment:

'...Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell,' where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness),...'

And later on you comment with:

'I honestly don't think you understand the Christian concept of what hell is...'

Are you saying that Christian concept of hell is a place 'where happiness abounds'?
(albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness),...'

Define " imperfect happiness' and 'satisfaction-based happiness'

You say:

'I honestly don't think you understand the Christian concept of what hell is...'

With so many versions and interpretations of 'hell" hoe do you know YOU have it right?
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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7/2/2012 6:47:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 6:13:00 PM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 10:25:42 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 8:14:12 AM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 6:20:19 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 6:15:45 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 2:16:50 AM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:58:24 AM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM, ATHOS wrote:
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Perfection and mistakes are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

You ignore the importance and love of freewill. You ignore your decision and God's knowing to let that choice be yours.

I ignore my decision? According to you and your religion, your god created me knowing that I would not believe in him. So, in effect, your god created me to be punished. Doesn't sound very loving.

Further still, suppose God in his knowledge created you in the best possible world & time in which you WOULD have the highest probability of choosing him... but still don't- should God still refrain from creating you? Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell, where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness), it's greater to exist than oblivion.

'Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell, where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness), it's greater to exist than oblivion.'

If a thing doesn't exist, there is no experience--nothing. If I had a choice to go to hell or non-existance, I'de choose the latter. Are you saying you'de choose hell?

I honestly don't think you understand the Christian concept of what hell is. That's one. Two is the fact that something, whatever it is, is ontologically greater than nothing. Yours or my epistemology on the matter is irrelevant.

Please............. Stop trolling

Try this as an idea. I'm not trolling.

Now answer my response to your objections with something better than "nothing is better than something" before I start thinking YOU'RE trolling.

The reason why I thought you were trolling was because of this comment:

'...Isn't it greater to exist than not to exist at least? Even in hell,' where happiness abounds (albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness),...'

And later on you comment with:

'I honestly don't think you understand the Christian concept of what hell is...'

Are you saying that Christian concept of hell is a place 'where happiness abounds'?
(albeit imperfect happiness- a satisfaction-based happiness),...'

Define " imperfect happiness' and 'satisfaction-based happiness'

You say:

'I honestly don't think you understand the Christian concept of what hell is...'

With so many versions and interpretations of 'hell" hoe do you know YOU have it right?

Ever read doctrine regarding hell? You'll note that the Church has defined nothing specific.

Ever read the bible regarding hell? Ever done an exegesis? It's more obvious than not that it's an eternal absence of God.

I think we live in a certain present purgatory, who knows? It seems that it could go one way or another God's presence in our lives. But if heaven is defined by God's increasing presence, and hell just the opposite-- man left to their own vices, then I see no reason whatever that there couldn't be happiness apart from God.

This type of happiness, though, let's call imperfect or self-seeking happiness, whereas the type found in heaven is commitment or other-seeking happiness- or the happiness for others is sought over the happiness of yourself. Such a way of seeking happiness is absurd to hellions but to heavenians just the opposite is true.

It's clear in the Bible, if it's truly God's word, that God prefers the type of altruistic love. And indeed just IS that type of altruistic love.

This is a common theodicy. See Goetz, Argument from Evil, Chalmers, Fischer, et al... the point isn't if this is the actual understanding of hell, but insofar as such a theodicy is even possible, it follows that your objection of the problem of evil (extended to hell) is false.
Reason_Alliance
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7/2/2012 8:42:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 6:13:00 PM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/2/2012 10:25:42 AM, Reason_Alliance wrote:
At 7/2/2012 8:14:12 AM, ATHOS wrote:

With so many versions and interpretations of 'hell" hoe do you know YOU have it right?

Also, hell is the "state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God & the blessed" (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1995, sec. 1033).
Reason_Alliance
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7/2/2012 8:48:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lewis writes,

"Either the day must come when joy prevails and all the makers of misery are no longer able to infect it:
or else forever and ever the makers of misery can destroy in others the happiness they reject for themselves."

"[T]he damned are, in one sense, successful, rebels to the end; that the doors of hell are locked on the inside … In the long run the answer to all those who object to the doctrine of hell, is itself a question:

‘What are you asking God to do?'

To wipe out their past sins and, at all costs, to given them a fresh start, smoothing every difficulty and offering every miraculous help? But He has done so, on Calvary.

To forgive them? They will not be forgiven.

To leave them alone? Alas, I am afraid that is what He does."
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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7/2/2012 9:42:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Seriously, why are you feeding the troll? It's obvious Athos is not interested in having a discussion with Christians, merely attacking Christianity.
ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/2/2012 10:38:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 9:42:14 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
Seriously, why are you feeding the troll? It's obvious Athos is not interested in having a discussion with Christians, merely attacking Christianity.

All I'm doing is asking questions regarding obvious contradictions.
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
Reason_Alliance
Posts: 1,283
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7/3/2012 5:57:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 9:42:14 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
Seriously, why are you feeding the troll? It's obvious Athos is not interested in having a discussion with Christians, merely attacking Christianity.

I obviously don't know yet if he is a troll or just ignorant on the issues.
Knologist_Prime
Posts: 36
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7/4/2012 9:23:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/2/2012 1:56:17 AM, ATHOS wrote:
The 'omniscience' aspect of god conflicts and contradicts with other aspects.
How so?

1. Another aspect of god is 'loving". Yet this omniscient god creates beings knowing full well that they'll screw up and end up getting punished by him. Is this loving or vindictive?

Love and vindictiveness are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

2. Another aspect of god is 'perfect'. When god created Adam and Eve he already knew he would destroy the world with a flood. How does the flood story and the preceding events that lead up to it reflective of a perfect god?

Perfection and mistakes are mutually exclusive, thus contradictory.

When God created Adam, did he know that Adam would sin?

Here is what God set before Adam and Eve: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth." "And Jehovah God also laid this command upon the man: ‘From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.'" (Gen. 1:28; 2:16, 17)

Would you encourage your children to undertake a project with a marvelous future, knowing from the start that it was doomed to failure?

Would you warn them of harm, while knowing that you had planned everything so that they were sure to come to grief?

Is it reasonable, then, to attribute such to God?

Matt. 7:11: "If you, although being wicked [or, "bad as you are," NE], know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so will your Father who is in the heavens give good things to those asking him?"

If God foreordained and foreknew Adam's sin and all that would result from this, it would mean that by creating Adam, God deliberately set in motion all the wickedness committed in human history.

He would be the Source of all the wars, the crime, the immorality, the oppression, the lying, the hypocrisy, the disease.

But the Bible clearly says:

"You are not a God taking delight in wickedness." (Ps. 5:4)
"Anyone loving violence His soul certainly hates." (Ps. 11:5)
"God . . . cannot lie." (Titus 1:2)
"From oppression and from violence he [the One designated by God as Messianic King] will redeem their soul, and their blood will be precious in his eyes." (Ps. 72:14)
"God is love." (1 John 4:8)
"He is a lover of righteousness and justice."—Ps. 33:5.

[rs p. 142 Fate]
Truth, is bias." - Knologist-Prime
"Words, means, things." - Knologist-Prime
"The Rules of Grammar in any Language, MUST be obeyed." - Knologist-Prime
"Artifacts are FACTS." - Knologist-Prime