Total Posts:49|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Can man creat?

Bible8910
Posts: 17
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 9:32:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

1) The bible is a man-made object.
2) Therefore, God is a man-made object.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 11:14:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

Nonsense. I have created loads of things. In my work, I have created loads of computer programs. On my free time I create music. that is not God, it's me.
So prove me wrong, then.
Floid
Posts: 751
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 11:15:04 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for.

Right, the problem seems to be finding him as there is no evidence that any particular God exists.

The Bible says that,in the beginning God created.

Forgive me if I don't find people 3,000 years ago particular knowledgeable about the origins of the life, the Earth, or the universe. Everything I have seen seems to indicate they knew much less than we do today.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
Lifeisgood
Posts: 295
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 3:11:44 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 11:14:28 AM, regebro wrote:
Nonsense. I have created loads of things. In my work, I have created loads of computer programs. On my free time I create music. that is not God, it's me.

Quick comment.

You're missing the point a bit here. What the OP was saying is that man has never made something out of nothing; that we can only 'make' what has already been made for us. He wasn't saying that man has never altered/made use of his surroundings.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Bible8910
Posts: 17
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 5:34:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 3:11:44 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:14:28 AM, regebro wrote:
Nonsense. I have created loads of things. In my work, I have created loads of computer programs. On my free time I create music. that is not God, it's me.

Quick comment.

You're missing the point a bit here. What the OP was saying is that man has never made something out of nothing; that we can only 'make' what has already been made for us. He wasn't saying that man has never altered/made use of his surroundings.

Thank you. Its sad when a 15yr old is smarter then the older ones.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 8:47:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 3:11:44 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:14:28 AM, regebro wrote:
Nonsense. I have created loads of things. In my work, I have created loads of computer programs. On my free time I create music. that is not God, it's me.

Quick comment.

You're missing the point a bit here. What the OP was saying is that man has never made something out of nothing; that we can only 'make' what has already been made for us. He wasn't saying that man has never altered/made use of his surroundings.

Then I am God, as I have made something out of nothing. I was using the surroundings (computers, musical instruments) when doing so. But what I created was not a modified something. I created something, software, music, out of nothing. Nothing was destroyed for me to create music.
So prove me wrong, then.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 8:49:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 5:34:48 PM, Bible8910 wrote:
Thank you. Its sad when a 15yr old is smarter then the older ones.

Not at all, I think it's great. But maybe that's because I have the base view that people are stupid, and like it when they are not, no matter what age.
So prove me wrong, then.
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 8:50:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"

Too bad science points to a finite universe.
I win ;D
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 8:55:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 8:50:34 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"


Too bad science points to a finite universe.

A finite Universe is impossible. There are no invisible walls. And if there were, something would still have to exist outside those walls.

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 9:05:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 8:55:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:50:34 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"


Too bad science points to a finite universe.

A finite Universe is impossible. There are no invisible walls. And if there were, something would still have to exist outside those walls.

.

Science does in fact point to a finite universe.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov...

What exists outside of the universe? Good question hmmm could it be God? God exists in and outside of the universe.
I win ;D
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 9:16:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:05:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:55:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:50:34 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"


Too bad science points to a finite universe.

A finite Universe is impossible. There are no invisible walls. And if there were, something would still have to exist outside those walls.

.


Science does in fact point to a finite universe.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov...

What exists outside of the universe?

The Multiverse. I actually agree that the Universe is finite, but not in the sense that you used the term. In terms of the Multiverse, our Universe is finite.

Good question hmmm could it be God? God exists in and outside of the universe.

That makes no sense. If God exists outside the Universe, what do you call the environment that God exists in? And how the hell can God exist in and outside the Universe? If God is a finite, humanoid entity, he cannot exist in both the exterior and interior of the Universe. That's absurd.

.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
LB628
Posts: 176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 9:20:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 8:55:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:50:34 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"


Too bad science points to a finite universe.

A finite Universe is impossible. There are no invisible walls. And if there were, something would still have to exist outside those walls.

.

Or it could simply be that the universe has curvature. Very, amazingly, mind-bogglingly long curvature, but curvature nonetheless.
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 9:23:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:16:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:05:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:55:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:50:34 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"


Too bad science points to a finite universe.

A finite Universe is impossible. There are no invisible walls. And if there were, something would still have to exist outside those walls.

.


Science does in fact point to a finite universe.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov...

What exists outside of the universe?

The Multiverse. I actually agree that the Universe is finite, but not in the sense that you used the term. In terms of the Multiverse, our Universe is finite.

A multi-verse implies that there are a infinite amount of universes outside of our universe correct?

Good question hmmm could it be God? God exists in and outside of the universe.

That makes no sense. If God exists outside the Universe, what do you call the environment that God exists in? And how the hell can God exist in and outside the Universe? If God is a finite, humanoid entity, he cannot exist in both the exterior and interior of the Universe. That's absurd.

.

It is only absurd because you refuse to believe that their is a being higher then us. If God created the universe he can obviously exist outside of the universe. Also a all powerful God would have the ability to be inside of the universe at the same time.
I win ;D
LB628
Posts: 176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 9:27:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:23:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:16:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:05:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:55:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:50:34 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"


Too bad science points to a finite universe.

A finite Universe is impossible. There are no invisible walls. And if there were, something would still have to exist outside those walls.

.


Science does in fact point to a finite universe.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov...

What exists outside of the universe?

The Multiverse. I actually agree that the Universe is finite, but not in the sense that you used the term. In terms of the Multiverse, our Universe is finite.

A multi-verse implies that there are a infinite amount of universes outside of our universe correct?

Good question hmmm could it be God? God exists in and outside of the universe.

That makes no sense. If God exists outside the Universe, what do you call the environment that God exists in? And how the hell can God exist in and outside the Universe? If God is a finite, humanoid entity, he cannot exist in both the exterior and interior of the Universe. That's absurd.

.

It is only absurd because you refuse to believe that their is a being higher then us. If God created the universe he can obviously exist outside of the universe. Also a all powerful God would have the ability to be inside of the universe at the same time.

No, it is still absurd. What you are saying is that God can exist both inside and outside of the universe at the same time. I.E God can exist as a logical contradiction. If God has a given identity, that of God, then that identity can be described. One of the ways in which an identity can be described is in terms of spacial location. If something is here, it cannot be there, for then it would not be here. If God exists both inside and outside of the Universe, then he exists neither inside nor outside of the Universe, and therefore does not exist.
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/25/2009 9:34:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:27:01 PM, LB628 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:23:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:16:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:05:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:55:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:50:34 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"


Too bad science points to a finite universe.

A finite Universe is impossible. There are no invisible walls. And if there were, something would still have to exist outside those walls.

.


Science does in fact point to a finite universe.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov...

What exists outside of the universe?

The Multiverse. I actually agree that the Universe is finite, but not in the sense that you used the term. In terms of the Multiverse, our Universe is finite.

A multi-verse implies that there are a infinite amount of universes outside of our universe correct?

Good question hmmm could it be God? God exists in and outside of the universe.

That makes no sense. If God exists outside the Universe, what do you call the environment that God exists in? And how the hell can God exist in and outside the Universe? If God is a finite, humanoid entity, he cannot exist in both the exterior and interior of the Universe. That's absurd.

.

It is only absurd because you refuse to believe that their is a being higher then us. If God created the universe he can obviously exist outside of the universe. Also a all powerful God would have the ability to be inside of the universe at the same time.

No, it is still absurd. What you are saying is that God can exist both inside and outside of the universe at the same time. I.E God can exist as a logical contradiction. If God has a given identity, that of God, then that identity can be described. One of the ways in which an identity can be described is in terms of spacial location. If something is here, it cannot be there, for then it would not be here. If God exists both inside and outside of the Universe, then he exists neither inside nor outside of the Universe, and therefore does not exist.

Again you only find it absurd because you do not want to admit the possibility of God. It is not logically possible to exist everywhere at the same time for me and you and still have a identity. But God on the other hand does have this power.

" If God exists both inside and outside of the Universe, then he exists neither inside nor outside of the Universe, and therefore does not exist."

Please re-read this statement it makes no sense what so ever. You contradicted yourself.
I win ;D
LB628
Posts: 176
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 4:22:22 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:34:04 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:27:01 PM, LB628 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:23:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:16:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:05:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:55:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:50:34 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"


Too bad science points to a finite universe.

A finite Universe is impossible. There are no invisible walls. And if there were, something would still have to exist outside those walls.

.


Science does in fact point to a finite universe.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov...

What exists outside of the universe?

The Multiverse. I actually agree that the Universe is finite, but not in the sense that you used the term. In terms of the Multiverse, our Universe is finite.

A multi-verse implies that there are a infinite amount of universes outside of our universe correct?

Good question hmmm could it be God? God exists in and outside of the universe.

That makes no sense. If God exists outside the Universe, what do you call the environment that God exists in? And how the hell can God exist in and outside the Universe? If God is a finite, humanoid entity, he cannot exist in both the exterior and interior of the Universe. That's absurd.

.

It is only absurd because you refuse to believe that their is a being higher then us. If God created the universe he can obviously exist outside of the universe. Also a all powerful God would have the ability to be inside of the universe at the same time.

No, it is still absurd. What you are saying is that God can exist both inside and outside of the universe at the same time. I.E God can exist as a logical contradiction. If God has a given identity, that of God, then that identity can be described. One of the ways in which an identity can be described is in terms of spacial location. If something is here, it cannot be there, for then it would not be here. If God exists both inside and outside of the Universe, then he exists neither inside nor outside of the Universe, and therefore does not exist.


Again you only find it absurd because you do not want to admit the possibility of God. It is not logically possible to exist everywhere at the same time for me and you and still have a identity. But God on the other hand does have this power.

Why? If he has an identity, if he exists, why must he not follow the laws of logic. If he exists, he must have a place, and if he has a place, he cannot be in another place.

" If God exists both inside and outside of the Universe, then he exists neither inside nor outside of the Universe, and therefore does not exist."

Please re-read this statement it makes no sense what so ever. You contradicted yourself.

Exactly. I was demonstrating the paradox that is God, at least under your definition of God. If he exists in one place, he cannot exist in the other. Ergo, because he exists both here and there, he exists neither here nor there.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 4:27:12 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:05:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
What exists outside of the universe?

There is no outside.

Think of the universe in the way that a computer game world exists in a computer. There is no "outside" that computer world. The characters in that computer world can't go outside. The question is simply meaningless. But there exists something *other*, namely the real world.

There can exist something other than the universe. But it's pointless to talk about "outside" it, because there is no outside. The universe is likely finite, and has no outside.
So prove me wrong, then.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 4:30:24 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 8:47:34 PM, regebro wrote:
At 8/25/2009 3:11:44 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:14:28 AM, regebro wrote:
Nonsense. I have created loads of things. In my work, I have created loads of computer programs. On my free time I create music. that is not God, it's me.

Quick comment.

You're missing the point a bit here. What the OP was saying is that man has never made something out of nothing; that we can only 'make' what has already been made for us. He wasn't saying that man has never altered/made use of his surroundings.

Then I am God, as I have made something out of nothing. I was using the surroundings (computers, musical instruments) when doing so. But what I created was not a modified something. I created something, software, music, out of nothing. Nothing was destroyed for me to create music.

This is why you'll NEVER be a star: The Beatles, The Stones, Micheal Jackson etc etc ALL stole from other artists.. (their 'art' was hiding the theft) Nowadays with the advent of sampling etc it is not even hidden.

There's NOTHING new under the sun: only synthesis of existing forms.
The Cross.. the Cross.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 5:48:55 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/26/2009 4:30:24 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
This is why you'll NEVER be a star: The Beatles, The Stones, Micheal Jackson etc etc ALL stole from other artists..

Quite possible. But it still doesn't change the fact that music is created from nothing.

There's NOTHING new under the sun: only synthesis of existing forms.

So. It is still created from nothing. The old music is not destroyed. If you change a song, then you have two songs. Nothing is destroyed. Hence: Something is created out of nothing.

If you say only God can create something out of nothing, then we all are Gods.
So prove me wrong, then.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 9:02:46 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/26/2009 5:48:55 AM, regebro wrote:
At 8/26/2009 4:30:24 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
This is why you'll NEVER be a star: The Beatles, The Stones, Micheal Jackson etc etc ALL stole from other artists..

Quite possible. But it still doesn't change the fact that music is created from nothing.

It is created using a mind, imagination, hands etc.. ALL from God..
Music uses sound waves, notes, tones etc ALL created by God..

There's NOTHING new under the sun: only synthesis of existing forms.

So. It is still created from nothing. The old music is not destroyed. If you change a song, then you have two songs. Nothing is destroyed. Hence: Something is created out of nothing.

If you say only God can create something out of nothing, then we all are Gods.

No, created out of something.. (old songs) which are STILL created using ALL of Gods gifts..

SO.. you still have all of YOUR work ahead of you.
The Cross.. the Cross.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 12:28:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/26/2009 9:02:46 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
It is created using a mind, imagination, hands etc..

Yes. *USING*. Not *FROM*. The statement was that only God can create something FROM nothing. So can everybody who creates music, poetry, etc.

Music uses sound waves, notes, tones etc ALL created by God..

No, it does not use the, They are not destroyed in the creation. Music is not create *from* these things.

If you say only God can create something out of nothing, then we all are Gods.

No, created out of something.. (old songs) which are STILL created using ALL of Gods gifts..

No, for the third time: they are not created from old songs, because then the old songs would disappear.

I'm sorry but you will simply have to give up this argument. God is NOT the only one who can create something out of nothing.

SO.. you still have all of YOUR work ahead of you.

No, about half of it is behind me by now.
So prove me wrong, then.
ToastOfDestiny
Posts: 990
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 1:06:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The problem with this (I'm surprised nobody's pointed it out) is that it begs the question. You assume God created thing to prove that man can only make from what has already been made. This is obviously true, nothing can be 'made' without 'something' to make it from.

Before someone jumps on this and says," OMG! GOD-PROOF!" , uncertainty can be the 'something' that spawns particles. We see it all the time.

I don't understand what the OP is getting at here.
At 10/11/2009 8:28:18 PM, banker wrote:
Our demise and industrial destruction
At 10/11/2009 10:00:21 PM, regebro wrote:
Only exists in your head, as already shown.

At 10/11/2009 8:28:18 PM, banker wrote:
reveal why you answer with a question mark
At 10/11/2009 10:00:21 PM, regebro wrote:
Because it was a question.

RFDs Pl0x:
http://www.debate.org...
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 1:29:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/26/2009 12:28:39 PM, regebro wrote:
At 8/26/2009 9:02:46 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
It is created using a mind, imagination, hands etc..

Yes. *USING*. Not *FROM*. The statement was that only God can create something FROM nothing. So can everybody who creates music, poetry, etc.

Music uses sound waves, notes, tones etc ALL created by God..

No, it does not use the, They are not destroyed in the creation. Music is not create *from* these things.

If you say only God can create something out of nothing, then we all are Gods.

No, created out of something.. (old songs) which are STILL created using ALL of Gods gifts..

No, for the third time: they are not created from old songs, because then the old songs would disappear.

I'm sorry but you will simply have to give up this argument. God is NOT the only one who can create something out of nothing.

SO.. you still have all of YOUR work ahead of you.

No, about half of it is behind me by now.

So good luck creating something out of nothing WITHOUT a brain/mind/hands/air/sound waves/tones etc etc..
The Cross.. the Cross.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 1:45:36 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/26/2009 1:29:32 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
So good luck creating something out of nothing WITHOUT a brain/mind/hands/air/sound waves/tones etc etc..

Still *with*, but not *from*.

I start with my hands and my brain, and I end with my hands and my brain and a song. I have created something and destroyed nothing. I have hence created something from nothing.

According to you, this means that I am God and you must worship me, or burn in hell. So, get going. Worship on!
So prove me wrong, then.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 2:03:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/26/2009 1:45:36 PM, regebro wrote:
At 8/26/2009 1:29:32 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
So good luck creating something out of nothing WITHOUT a brain/mind/hands/air/sound waves/tones etc etc..

Still *with*, but not *from*.

I start with my hands and my brain, and I end with my hands and my brain and a song. I have created something and destroyed nothing. I have hence created something from nothing.

According to you, this means that I am God and you must worship me, or burn in hell. So, get going. Worship on!

But YOU yourself are created, including your imaginative and creative capabilities so you 'own' NOTHING..
This why Christ says 'whoever wishes to keep his life will lose it but whoever gives it up for my sake will keep it..'
UNLESS you give God the glory it's all a great big fat ZERO..
The Cross.. the Cross.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 2:05:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/26/2009 2:03:12 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
But YOU yourself are created, including your imaginative and creative capabilities so you 'own' NOTHING..
This why Christ says 'whoever wishes to keep his life will lose it but whoever gives it up for my sake will keep it..'
UNLESS you give God the glory it's all a great big fat ZERO..

I AM God. You said so.
So prove me wrong, then.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 2:10:55 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/26/2009 2:05:39 PM, regebro wrote:
At 8/26/2009 2:03:12 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
But YOU yourself are created, including your imaginative and creative capabilities so you 'own' NOTHING..
This why Christ says 'whoever wishes to keep his life will lose it but whoever gives it up for my sake will keep it..'
UNLESS you give God the glory it's all a great big fat ZERO..

I AM God. You said so.

As already stated: putting words into my mouth is about the ONLY way you'll keep up around here!
The Cross.. the Cross.
KeithKroeger91
Posts: 178
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2009 2:40:46 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/26/2009 4:22:22 AM, LB628 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:34:04 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:27:01 PM, LB628 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:23:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:16:11 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:05:02 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:55:39 PM, GeoLaureate8 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 8:50:34 PM, KeithKroeger91 wrote:
At 8/25/2009 11:43:01 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/25/2009 9:26:35 AM, Bible8910 wrote:
One of the things I hear all the time is that God did not creat all things out of nothing. Well let me put it like this,God is the something that they are looking for. The Bible says that,in the beginning God created. Man can only creat something from the things that God had already created because God created all things. Your only question would be how?

The real question, from a theorist's point of view should be: "Did 'God' or some other deity create the 'Big Bang' or is the universe in an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction and religion is merely a tool that humans use to reconcile themselves with an environment they cannot fully comprehend?"


Too bad science points to a finite universe.

A finite Universe is impossible. There are no invisible walls. And if there were, something would still have to exist outside those walls.

.


Science does in fact point to a finite universe.
http://spaceplace.nasa.gov...

What exists outside of the universe?

The Multiverse. I actually agree that the Universe is finite, but not in the sense that you used the term. In terms of the Multiverse, our Universe is finite.

A multi-verse implies that there are a infinite amount of universes outside of our universe correct?

Good question hmmm could it be God? God exists in and outside of the universe.

That makes no sense. If God exists outside the Universe, what do you call the environment that God exists in? And how the hell can God exist in and outside the Universe? If God is a finite, humanoid entity, he cannot exist in both the exterior and interior of the Universe. That's absurd.

.

It is only absurd because you refuse to believe that their is a being higher then us. If God created the universe he can obviously exist outside of the universe. Also a all powerful God would have the ability to be inside of the universe at the same time.

No, it is still absurd. What you are saying is that God can exist both inside and outside of the universe at the same time. I.E God can exist as a logical contradiction. If God has a given identity, that of God, then that identity can be described. One of the ways in which an identity can be described is in terms of spacial location. If something is here, it cannot be there, for then it would not be here. If God exists both inside and outside of the Universe, then he exists neither inside nor outside of the Universe, and therefore does not exist.


Again you only find it absurd because you do not want to admit the possibility of God. It is not logically possible to exist everywhere at the same time for me and you and still have a identity. But God on the other hand does have this power.

Why? If he has an identity, if he exists, why must he not follow the laws of logic. If he exists, he must have a place, and if he has a place, he cannot be in another place.

I don't think you understand. If God created the "laws of logic" then why must he follow the laws? A God wouldn't be all-powerful if he was restricted by what he created.

" If God exists both inside and outside of the Universe, then he exists neither inside nor outside of the Universe, and therefore does not exist."

Please re-read this statement it makes no sense what so ever. You contradicted yourself.

Exactly. I was demonstrating the paradox that is God, at least under your definition of God. If he exists in one place, he cannot exist in the other. Ergo, because he exists both here and there, he exists neither here nor there.

Paradox of God? No.. You said if he exists in both then he exists in neither. MAKES no sense at all. He either exists everywhere or nowhere at all it can't be both.
I win ;D