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Biblical contradictions

ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/9/2012 6:49:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why can't (some) Christians recognize Biblical contradictions concerning the nature of God?
and
How does Biblical contradictions affect the content of the Bible?
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
Maikuru
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7/9/2012 7:01:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The first thing you should do is present some of these contradictions.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/9/2012 7:21:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 7:01:24 PM, Maikuru wrote:
The first thing you should do is present some of these contradictions.

Sure.
1. God good to all, or just a few?


PSA 145:9: The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14: And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

2. War or Peace?
EXO 15:3: The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33: Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

3. God change?
MALACHI 3:6: Surely I, the Lord do not change. . .

JAMES 1:17: Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

GENESIS 6:6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

4. God be seen?

EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9

God CAN be seen:
EXO 33:23: "And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts."

EXO 33:11:"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend."

GEN 32:30: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

5. God CANNOT be seen:
JOH 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time."

EXO 33:20: "And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live."

1TIM 6:16: "Whom no man hath seen nor can see."

6. CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:

"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (JER 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."

"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (JAS 5:11)

"For his mercy endureth forever." (1CH 16:34)

"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (PSA 145:9)

"God is love." (1JO 4:16)

7. Tempts?

"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)

"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
SuburbiaSurvivor
Posts: 872
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7/9/2012 8:15:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 7:21:34 PM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/9/2012 7:01:24 PM, Maikuru wrote:
The first thing you should do is present some of these contradictions.

Sure.
1. God good to all, or just a few?


PSA 145:9: The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14: And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

2. War or Peace?
EXO 15:3: The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33: Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

3. God change?
MALACHI 3:6: Surely I, the Lord do not change. . .

JAMES 1:17: Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

GENESIS 6:6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

4. God be seen?


EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9

God CAN be seen:
EXO 33:23: "And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts."

EXO 33:11:"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend."

GEN 32:30: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."



5. God CANNOT be seen:
JOH 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time."

EXO 33:20: "And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live."

1TIM 6:16: "Whom no man hath seen nor can see."

6. CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:

"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (JER 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."



"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (JAS 5:11)

"For his mercy endureth forever." (1CH 16:34)

"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (PSA 145:9)

"God is love." (1JO 4:16)

7. Tempts?


"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)



"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)

I don't have time to respond to all of this. But there's a huge difference between being "good" and being "nice". Good refers to being kind and compassionate but also just.
"I'm going to tell you something that you're never going to forget, SuburbiaSurvivor. Women... Are just human beings"
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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7/9/2012 11:55:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 6:49:20 PM, ATHOS wrote:
Why can't (some) Christians recognize Biblical contradictions concerning the nature of God?
and
How does Biblical contradictions affect the content of the Bible?

More than four decades ago my best friend died courageously in Vietnam and around ten years ago I was invited to attend a reunion of his unit. I knew that he died heroically but I didn't know much about what really happened until the night of the reunion. That night four men told me the story, they spoke emotionally and in reverential tones about honor and courage, and they told me that he sacrificed his life so that they would live. I suspect the stories were somewhat exaggerated, which is not to say that anyone was lying, it is only to say that I know an event as intense and emotional as this is experienced in an exaggerated manner.

I heard the story four times and so I heard four different versions of what happened in that battle. Although there were some minor contradictions in these four stories, I had no agenda other than understanding and I am certainly no literalist, so I did not argue the contradictions, or come to some conclusion that this battle must have never really happened, or think there might be some kind of conspiracy going on, I just know that four aspects of an intense and emotional experience that occurred decades ago was told from the four different points of view of four different men. It is not in spite of these four different points of view, but because of them, that I am certain that I now have a fuller and more complete understanding of what happened the night my brother died.

That evening served to reinforce my conviction that the truth is the whole and you miss the truth if you concern yourself with fragments or focus on the apparent contradictions that different points of view will inevitably present.

Many people with an agenda enjoy pointing out contradictions in the Bible in what quite often appears to be a obvious attempt to obscure any hope of understanding or seeing truth by deliberately focusing on fragments.

My point is that there is another way to consider the apparent contradictions in the Bible and perhaps that way is the way to understanding and truth.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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7/10/2012 12:16:12 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Many Christians who believe in inerrancy will admit there are contradictions in the current translations of the Bible, but will mantain that in the original Greek and Hebrew forms, there are no contradictions. Just something to think about.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
baggins
Posts: 855
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7/10/2012 12:45:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 6:49:20 PM, ATHOS wrote:
Why can't (some) Christians recognize Biblical contradictions concerning the nature of God?
and
How does Biblical contradictions affect the content of the Bible?

If The Holy Bible is studied with the help of The Holy Quran; there are no contradictions in it.
The Holy Quran 29:19-20

See they not how Allah originates creation, then repeats it: truly that is easy for Allah.

Say: "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation; so will Allah produce a later creation: for Allah has power over all things.
ATHOS
Posts: 123
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7/10/2012 12:55:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 11:55:27 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 7/9/2012 6:49:20 PM, ATHOS wrote:
Why can't (some) Christians recognize Biblical contradictions concerning the nature of God?
and
How does Biblical contradictions affect the content of the Bible?

More than four decades ago my best friend died courageously in Vietnam and around ten years ago I was invited to attend a reunion of his unit. I knew that he died heroically but I didn't know much about what really happened until the night of the reunion. That night four men told me the story, they spoke emotionally and in reverential tones about honor and courage, and they told me that he sacrificed his life so that they would live. I suspect the stories were somewhat exaggerated, which is not to say that anyone was lying, it is only to say that I know an event as intense and emotional as this is experienced in an exaggerated manner.

I heard the story four times and so I heard four different versions of what happened in that battle. Although there were some minor contradictions in these four stories, I had no agenda other than understanding and I am certainly no literalist, so I did not argue the contradictions, or come to some conclusion that this battle must have never really happened, or think there might be some kind of conspiracy going on, I just know that four aspects of an intense and emotional experience that occurred decades ago was told from the four different points of view of four different men. It is not in spite of these four different points of view, but because of them, that I am certain that I now have a fuller and more complete understanding of what happened the night my brother died.

That evening served to reinforce my conviction that the truth is the whole and you miss the truth if you concern yourself with fragments or focus on the apparent contradictions that different points of view will inevitably present.

Many people with an agenda enjoy pointing out contradictions in the Bible in what quite often appears to be a obvious attempt to obscure any hope of understanding or seeing truth by deliberately focusing on fragments.

My point is that there is another way to consider the apparent contradictions in the Bible and perhaps that way is the way to understanding and truth.

Sorry about your brother/best friend, Sidewalker.

I understand why there are contradictions in the Bible, because it's the work of man.
But, many Christians consider it to be the infallible word of God.
What can be expected from insane premises except an insane conclusion? The way to undo an insane conclusion is to consider the sanity of the premises on which it rests.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How long will contradiction stand when its impossible nature is clearly revealed?
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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7/10/2012 1:20:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/10/2012 12:55:18 AM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/9/2012 11:55:27 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 7/9/2012 6:49:20 PM, ATHOS wrote:
Why can't (some) Christians recognize Biblical contradictions concerning the nature of God?
and
How does Biblical contradictions affect the content of the Bible?

More than four decades ago my best friend died courageously in Vietnam and around ten years ago I was invited to attend a reunion of his unit. I knew that he died heroically but I didn't know much about what really happened until the night of the reunion. That night four men told me the story, they spoke emotionally and in reverential tones about honor and courage, and they told me that he sacrificed his life so that they would live. I suspect the stories were somewhat exaggerated, which is not to say that anyone was lying, it is only to say that I know an event as intense and emotional as this is experienced in an exaggerated manner.

I heard the story four times and so I heard four different versions of what happened in that battle. Although there were some minor contradictions in these four stories, I had no agenda other than understanding and I am certainly no literalist, so I did not argue the contradictions, or come to some conclusion that this battle must have never really happened, or think there might be some kind of conspiracy going on, I just know that four aspects of an intense and emotional experience that occurred decades ago was told from the four different points of view of four different men. It is not in spite of these four different points of view, but because of them, that I am certain that I now have a fuller and more complete understanding of what happened the night my brother died.

That evening served to reinforce my conviction that the truth is the whole and you miss the truth if you concern yourself with fragments or focus on the apparent contradictions that different points of view will inevitably present.

Many people with an agenda enjoy pointing out contradictions in the Bible in what quite often appears to be a obvious attempt to obscure any hope of understanding or seeing truth by deliberately focusing on fragments.

My point is that there is another way to consider the apparent contradictions in the Bible and perhaps that way is the way to understanding and truth.

Sorry about your brother/best friend, Sidewalker.

I understand why there are contradictions in the Bible, because it's the work of man.
But, many Christians consider it to be the infallible word of God.

Which is a pretty strong argument against the literalism those same people tend to insist on. If they consider it the infallible word of God, then they should be able to recognize that it explicitly warns against such literalism, "as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" (2 Cor 3:6).

I try to avoid dueling Spripture because it never accompkishes anything, but there does happen to be about 50 other passages that make the same point.

.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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7/10/2012 5:06:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 6:49:20 PM, ATHOS wrote:
Why can't (some) Christians recognize Biblical contradictions concerning the nature of God?
and
How does Biblical contradictions affect the content of the Bible?

There are no contradictions. Atheists believe they know of some, but the reality is that atheists just don't know how to interpret the Bible. There are rules to be followed for proper interpretation.

First and foremost, like with any other work (or words of a person), DO NOT TAKE THEM OUT OF CONTEXT. Quoting one sentence can be used to prove anything from the Bible, even something it specifically doesn't teach. You can show that the Bible says "there is no God," but you are deliberately taking it out of context, which is "the fool has said in his heart 'there is no God.'" This is simply a reasonable interpretation technique, but one atheists refuse to consider.

Second, you must interpret the Scriptures in their historical context.

Thirdly, you must compare Scripture with Scripture. If there are hard verses that seem to contradict more easily understood verses, it is possible your interpretation of the hard verses is simply incorrect.

There are others, but these are three of the more important rules.

However, I don't think I'll respond to your verses because I'm pretty sure, like most atheists who argue from Biblical contradiction, that you won't accept any reasonable answer to why they are not contradictions, and these contradictions are not a roadblock to faith in God (in other words, I'm sure that resolving these contradictions for you won't cause you to take faith in God more seriously).
Tnkissfan
Posts: 199
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7/10/2012 8:52:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 11:55:27 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 7/9/2012 6:49:20 PM, ATHOS wrote:
Why can't (some) Christians recognize Biblical contradictions concerning the nature of God?
and
How does Biblical contradictions affect the content of the Bible?

More than four decades ago my best friend died courageously in Vietnam and around ten years ago I was invited to attend a reunion of his unit. I knew that he died heroically but I didn't know much about what really happened until the night of the reunion. That night four men told me the story, they spoke emotionally and in reverential tones about honor and courage, and they told me that he sacrificed his life so that they would live. I suspect the stories were somewhat exaggerated, which is not to say that anyone was lying, it is only to say that I know an event as intense and emotional as this is experienced in an exaggerated manner.

I heard the story four times and so I heard four different versions of what happened in that battle. Although there were some minor contradictions in these four stories, I had no agenda other than understanding and I am certainly no literalist, so I did not argue the contradictions, or come to some conclusion that this battle must have never really happened, or think there might be some kind of conspiracy going on, I just know that four aspects of an intense and emotional experience that occurred decades ago was told from the four different points of view of four different men. It is not in spite of these four different points of view, but because of them, that I am certain that I now have a fuller and more complete understanding of what happened the night my brother died.

That evening served to reinforce my conviction that the truth is the whole and you miss the truth if you concern yourself with fragments or focus on the apparent contradictions that different points of view will inevitably present.

Many people with an agenda enjoy pointing out contradictions in the Bible in what quite often appears to be a obvious attempt to obscure any hope of understanding or seeing truth by deliberately focusing on fragments.

My point is that there is another way to consider the apparent contradictions in the Bible and perhaps that way is the way to understanding and truth.

Well said.
acvavra
Posts: 318
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7/11/2012 8:41:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 7:21:34 PM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/9/2012 7:01:24 PM, Maikuru wrote:
The first thing you should do is present some of these contradictions.

Sure.
1. God good to all, or just a few?


PSA 145:9: The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14: And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
The ANSWER: God is merciful and just to all for a long time. But when they keep sinning and rebelling against God, God sends judgement.
2. War or Peace?
EXO 15:3: The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33: Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.
Again, God does show peace to the wicked, which is why murderers still have air in their lungs after they kill. But God will judge YOU FOR YOUR SINS EVENTUALLY. He is LONGsuffering as the Bible says.
3. God change?
MALACHI 3:6: Surely I, the Lord do not change. . .

JAMES 1:17: Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

GENESIS 6:6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.
Did it say, "God never changes about ANYTHING." He changed biologically, from a baby to a man. He changes the physical laws of nature and science to perform a miracle by intervening. Genesis 6:6 is saying He changed his emotions. Humans change their emotions all the time.
4. God be seen?


EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9

God CAN be seen:
EXO 33:23: "And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts."
Jesus Christ in His preincarnate state
EXO 33:11:"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend."
Jesus Christ as a theophany
GEN 32:30: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."

Jesus Christ as a theophany. "The Angel of the Lord."

5. God CANNOT be seen:
JOH 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time."
God the Father
EXO 33:20: "And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live."
God the Father
1TIM 6:16: "Whom no man hath seen nor can see."
God the Father(He is described as a Flaming fire(Hebrews 12:29) which is why you cant see him and live.
6. CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:

"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (JER 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."



"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (JAS 5:11)

"For his mercy endureth forever." (1CH 16:34)

"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (PSA 145:9)

"God is love." (1JO 4:16)
Again, God is LONGsuffering and merciful to the wicked, and God is love to the Christians, but judgement falls on the wicked EVENTUALLY.
7. Tempts?


"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)



"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)

God tempted Abraham in the since of a trial(Hebrews 11:17). James 1:13 is saying cannot tempt man with EVIL since its against God's nature.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 11:38:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 6:49:20 PM, ATHOS wrote:
Why can't (some) Christians recognize Biblical contradictions concerning the nature of God?
and
How does Biblical contradictions affect the content of the Bible?

After a decade of Biblical studies and a degree in Theology, I have not found any contradictions concerning the nature of the God within the Bible.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 11:47:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/9/2012 7:21:34 PM, ATHOS wrote:
At 7/9/2012 7:01:24 PM, Maikuru wrote:
The first thing you should do is present some of these contradictions.

Sure.
1. God good to all, or just a few?


PSA 145:9: The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

JER 13:14: And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.

So you are saying you would have rewarded the Nazi's for cooking Jew children in ovens?


2. War or Peace?
EXO 15:3: The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33: Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

War and Peace are not opposites or contradictory. If God was called a pacifist, then a warrior you might have a contradiction.


3. God change?
MALACHI 3:6: Surely I, the Lord do not change. . .

JAMES 1:17: Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.

GENESIS 6:6 The LORD regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.

God's essence being unchanging is NOT the same as God changing his actions in relation to humans, a perpetually changing being.


4. God be seen?


EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9

God CAN be seen:
EXO 33:23: "And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts."

EXO 33:11:"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend."

GEN 32:30: "For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."



5. God CANNOT be seen:
JOH 1:18: "No man hath seen God at any time."

EXO 33:20: "And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live."

1TIM 6:16: "Whom no man hath seen nor can see."

God the father who is completely unseen is one aspect of His Triune nature. Jesus is the physical aspect, or in the OT the theophany.

I could also state you are unseen and seen and not be contradictory when I am referencing different aspects of what makes up 'you'. I.e. your hair vs. your soul.


6. CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:

"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (JER 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."



"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (JAS 5:11)

"For his mercy endureth forever." (1CH 16:34)

"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (PSA 145:9)

"God is love." (1JO 4:16)

Again referencing two different people groups.


7. Tempts?


"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)



"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)

Two different concepts in the Bible. Tempt and testing. Original languages and use of context make it pretty clear.

As stated a thousand times here in these forums, you have literally hundreds of millions of theological scholars who claim there are no contradictions. Yet still, people post this stuff