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Debate Atheists on Exodus and Leviticus

Gileandos
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7/11/2012 10:55:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
A debate I thoroughly enjoyed on the faith and skepticism podcast.
It was an atheist perspective on these OT books with a Christian perspective.

http://www.faithandskepticism.com...

Let me know your thoughts on this debate/discussion.
acvavra
Posts: 318
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7/11/2012 11:34:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Great podcast man! This atheist just doesn't know how to defend his arguments. He keeps telling the Christian, "I agree with that" or "I have no problem with that." Concerning the Burning Bush, his argument was so dumb. His response ,"Maybe he was just hallucinating?" Is this guy insane?
Gileandos
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7/11/2012 11:57:55 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 11:34:35 AM, acvavra wrote:
Great podcast man! This atheist just doesn't know how to defend his arguments. He keeps telling the Christian, "I agree with that" or "I have no problem with that." Concerning the Burning Bush, his argument was so dumb. His response ,"Maybe he was just hallucinating?" Is this guy insane?

Good insight.
He thought there was a good reason for Moses to hallucinate. He thought Moses was wandering around the desert, malnourished, dehydrated, feeling guilty of the murder...

He did not realize it was 40 years later, when he was a shepherd, comfortable, married etc...
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/11/2012 3:43:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 11:34:35 AM, acvavra wrote:
Great podcast man! This atheist just doesn't know how to defend his arguments. He keeps telling the Christian, "I agree with that" or "I have no problem with that." Concerning the Burning Bush, his argument was so dumb. His response ,"Maybe he was just hallucinating?" Is this guy insane?

That's a rational response though. If I saw something wild and extraordinary, the first rational response I would have is, I was hallucinating. For example, if you saw a ghost, you most likely were hallucinating and obviously didn't really encounter a ghost.

Now, back in those days, people didn't know what we know about the brain. So obviously "my brain is just acting up" is not what they would think if they had an experience.

Just think about it, if someone said they saw a burning bush that never stops burning, would you believe them? Of course not, they are either lying, simply misinformed, or misinterpreted their information.

Rational explanations trump fairy tale explanations, every time.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 3:43:38 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 11:34:35 AM, acvavra wrote:
Great podcast man! This atheist just doesn't know how to defend his arguments. He keeps telling the Christian, "I agree with that" or "I have no problem with that." Concerning the Burning Bush, his argument was so dumb. His response ,"Maybe he was just hallucinating?" Is this guy insane?

That's a rational response though. If I saw something wild and extraordinary, the first rational response I would have is, I was hallucinating. For example, if you saw a ghost, you most likely were hallucinating and obviously didn't really encounter a ghost.

Now, back in those days, people didn't know what we know about the brain. So obviously "my brain is just acting up" is not what they would think if they had an experience.

Just think about it, if someone said they saw a burning bush that never stops burning, would you believe them? Of course not, they are either lying, simply misinformed, or misinterpreted their information.

Rational explanations trump fairy tale explanations, every time.

I do love discussing the hallucination line of argumentation from atheists. Some how attributing supernaturalism to hallucinations is 'more reasonable'?

I mean if everyone did a count on one hand, times in which they think they might have hallucinated, it typically comes to zero.

I myself have never hallucinated. It is amazing the number of people who see Jesus by have never hallucinated in any other context.

The second issue is the fact that there continues to be this argument with little scientific support for it, despite many people publishing studies. All of the studies are recognized to be flawed or dubious at best, even from the scientific community. It always amuses me that atheists are the proponents and never the scientific community.

Third, as with the Moses example hallucinations are brought on by certain key circumstances, which can not be attributed to the event of a burning bush.

Fourth, even those circumstances only might mean correlation not causation. It would be fallacious to just 'assume' so.

Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!

Summary:
Even if you could argue for an induced hallucination, that would do nothing to check the extrinsic nature of the hallucinations. We as humans do find a consistent telos theme in the hallucinations.

You would have to defeat the concept that such events do not merely drop the barriers rather than cause a mass confusion of the human race.

You would also have to validate that such entities and beings can not exist when scientifically we know for certain such entities plausibly exist.
Gileandos
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7/11/2012 4:07:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.

Would not believe what? Like spirits or Ghosts? Jinn? OF course we recognize there are theological explanations that warrant further critique of events not that the events could be chalked up to spicy salsa night at the sheep farm.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/11/2012 4:10:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.


Not true..

i think all the God(s) people refer to are real to an extent, and some of the stories of encoutners and such are based in truth, from a real power.. demonic power.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 4:11:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:10:39 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.


Not true..

i think all the God(s) people refer to are real to an extent, and some of the stories of encoutners and such are based in truth, from a real power.. demonic power.

Spot on.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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7/11/2012 4:14:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:10:39 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.


Not true..

i think all the God(s) people refer to are real to an extent, and some of the stories of encoutners and such are based in truth, from a real power.. demonic power.

Aren't their existence foretold in the bible?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/11/2012 4:17:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:14:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:10:39 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.


Not true..

i think all the God(s) people refer to are real to an extent, and some of the stories of encoutners and such are based in truth, from a real power.. demonic power.

Aren't their existence foretold in the bible?


lol true..
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 4:19:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:14:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:10:39 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.


Not true..

i think all the God(s) people refer to are real to an extent, and some of the stories of encoutners and such are based in truth, from a real power.. demonic power.

Aren't their existence foretold in the bible?

Take aliens for instance. No such entities are discussed, but if we met an alien race, we are not going to point and state you do not exist!!

Even magical powers we believe exist that are not mentioned in the Bible, but as the early church fathers stated, we can know their source due to the fact the powers would not work on or for Christians. This means that Christianity was protected from those powers. We can then deduce those unspoken of powers were demonic in origin rather than some alternate source. (Huge theological discussion surrounding that)
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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7/11/2012 4:23:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:19:51 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:14:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:10:39 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.


Not true..

i think all the God(s) people refer to are real to an extent, and some of the stories of encoutners and such are based in truth, from a real power.. demonic power.

Aren't their existence foretold in the bible?

Take aliens for instance. No such entities are discussed, but if we met an alien race, we are not going to point and state you do not exist!!

Even magical powers we believe exist that are not mentioned in the Bible, but as the early church fathers stated, we can know their source due to the fact the powers would not work on or for Christians. This means that Christianity was protected from those powers. We can then deduce those unspoken of powers were demonic in origin rather than some alternate source. (Huge theological discussion surrounding that)

To what magical powers are you referring?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/11/2012 4:25:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:19:51 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:14:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:10:39 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.


Not true..

i think all the God(s) people refer to are real to an extent, and some of the stories of encoutners and such are based in truth, from a real power.. demonic power.

Aren't their existence foretold in the bible?

Take aliens for instance. No such entities are discussed, but if we met an alien race, we are not going to point and state you do not exist!!

Even magical powers we believe exist that are not mentioned in the Bible, but as the early church fathers stated, we can know their source due to the fact the powers would not work on or for Christians. This means that Christianity was protected from those powers. We can then deduce those unspoken of powers were demonic in origin rather than some alternate source. (Huge theological discussion surrounding that)


Would you also agree that Christians are not susceptible to possesion?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 4:29:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:25:21 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:19:51 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:14:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:10:39 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.


Not true..

i think all the God(s) people refer to are real to an extent, and some of the stories of encoutners and such are based in truth, from a real power.. demonic power.

Aren't their existence foretold in the bible?

Take aliens for instance. No such entities are discussed, but if we met an alien race, we are not going to point and state you do not exist!!

Even magical powers we believe exist that are not mentioned in the Bible, but as the early church fathers stated, we can know their source due to the fact the powers would not work on or for Christians. This means that Christianity was protected from those powers. We can then deduce those unspoken of powers were demonic in origin rather than some alternate source. (Huge theological discussion surrounding that)


Would you also agree that Christians are not susceptible to possesion?

I would affirm protection from certain demonic activity, not that demons will not be have you as a target so to speak.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 4:29:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:23:51 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:19:51 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:14:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:10:39 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.


Not true..

i think all the God(s) people refer to are real to an extent, and some of the stories of encoutners and such are based in truth, from a real power.. demonic power.

Aren't their existence foretold in the bible?

Take aliens for instance. No such entities are discussed, but if we met an alien race, we are not going to point and state you do not exist!!

Even magical powers we believe exist that are not mentioned in the Bible, but as the early church fathers stated, we can know their source due to the fact the powers would not work on or for Christians. This means that Christianity was protected from those powers. We can then deduce those unspoken of powers were demonic in origin rather than some alternate source. (Huge theological discussion surrounding that)

To what magical powers are you referring?

Wicca for example.
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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7/11/2012 4:34:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.

Once I dreamt I was dead and in Heaven, next to Jesus. He told me he can return me to Earth, but then the chances I'm going to hell will get bigger. Weird, heaven had green plates and looked like my bathroom. I saw some people running around being happy. I felt sorta neutral, not happy or sad. I guess I chose life!

.
.
.

Was this real?
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/11/2012 4:36:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Lol yeah i'm reformed. I believe his work is active, still, however I do not believe he does thing in that way anymore..

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

I believe there are many different things we can encounter, and many different forces that wish us to follow false doctrine. Now, if i met Jesus, i'm pretty sure i would know it was him.. however, the word is what i'd have to use as my guide..

If this, being, that appeared in front of me, contradicted the word, or placed empasis on anything but God's Grace and Mercy-- i would pray like crazy for it to leave me a lone..lol

What did Jesus tell you?

Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.


It's not that i don't think it's possible (I have family that has said similar things), i just don't feel it's supported with scripture for God to use that method.. i believe the word is what he uses to draw he's sheep near; not personal visits, or role call...lol
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/11/2012 4:37:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:29:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:25:21 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:19:51 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:14:10 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:10:39 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 3:56:58 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
If it wasn't in the bible, you wouldn't believe it. Simple as that.


Not true..

i think all the God(s) people refer to are real to an extent, and some of the stories of encoutners and such are based in truth, from a real power.. demonic power.

Aren't their existence foretold in the bible?

Take aliens for instance. No such entities are discussed, but if we met an alien race, we are not going to point and state you do not exist!!

Even magical powers we believe exist that are not mentioned in the Bible, but as the early church fathers stated, we can know their source due to the fact the powers would not work on or for Christians. This means that Christianity was protected from those powers. We can then deduce those unspoken of powers were demonic in origin rather than some alternate source. (Huge theological discussion surrounding that)


Would you also agree that Christians are not susceptible to possesion?

I would affirm protection from certain demonic activity, not that demons will not be have you as a target so to speak.


I agree.. I've been victim to some attacks, you could say, but calling on God always made it go away pretty quickly.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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7/11/2012 4:43:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:34:32 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.

Once I dreamt I was dead and in Heaven, next to Jesus. He told me he can return me to Earth, but then the chances I'm going to hell will get bigger. Weird, heaven had green plates and looked like my bathroom. I saw some people running around being happy. I felt sorta neutral, not happy or sad. I guess I chose life!

.
.
.

Was this real?

I was serious while saying this, btw.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/11/2012 4:50:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:34:32 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.

Once I dreamt I was dead and in Heaven, next to Jesus. He told me he can return me to Earth, but then the chances I'm going to hell will get bigger. Weird, heaven had green plates and looked like my bathroom. I saw some people running around being happy. I felt sorta neutral, not happy or sad. I guess I chose life!

.
.
.

Was this real?


It's on par with our nature.. we'd all choose earth.

A great description of Heaven and truth, that i've heard was something like this:

The truth/word of God, is like a giant feast on a vast table, where seated, are only corpses. Only a person with life can realize and enjoy the feast.

So unless a person has been brought to life, the pleasures and benefits of God's word and his gifts, will not be recognized or desireable.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 4:52:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:36:42 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Lol yeah i'm reformed. I believe his work is active, still, however I do not believe he does thing in that way anymore..

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

I believe there are many different things we can encounter, and many different forces that wish us to follow false doctrine. Now, if i met Jesus, i'm pretty sure i would know it was him.. however, the word is what i'd have to use as my guide..

If this, being, that appeared in front of me, contradicted the word, or placed empasis on anything but God's Grace and Mercy-- i would pray like crazy for it to leave me a lone..lol

What did Jesus tell you?

Funny you should state that and then ask the question. It would explain why you have not had a similiar experience. If Jesus did come to you to teach you, and it conflicts with your interpretation, you will not listen to Him again.

When you state contradict the 'word' what you mean is if God came to you and contradicted your interpretation or your theological leanings.

I was saved into a reformed Church. It is God's personal ministry to me that led me into learning, teaching and fully experiencing him. The first visitation from Jesus was in a vision where he was the teacher of a college classroom and I was absolutely thrilled. I was handing out papers on basic theology and doctrines and most of the students were not paying attention to Jesus, his personal instruction and the information I was giving out to them.

This defined for me the reformed church I was in. It was in Jesus' class, but would not listen to him or his messengers.


Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.


It's not that i don't think it's possible (I have family that has said similar things), i just don't feel it's supported with scripture for God to use that method.. i believe the word is what he uses to draw he's sheep near; not personal visits, or role call...lol

I again point out that most Christians do not feel it conflicts with scripture, so in reality you are saying such things conflict with your theology or interpretation of scripture.
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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7/11/2012 4:54:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:50:03 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:34:32 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.

Once I dreamt I was dead and in Heaven, next to Jesus. He told me he can return me to Earth, but then the chances I'm going to hell will get bigger. Weird, heaven had green plates and looked like my bathroom. I saw some people running around being happy. I felt sorta neutral, not happy or sad. I guess I chose life!

.
.
.

Was this real?


It's on par with our nature.. we'd all choose earth.

A great description of Heaven and truth, that i've heard was something like this:

The truth/word of God, is like a giant feast on a vast table, where seated, are only corpses. Only a person with life can realize and enjoy the feast.

So unless a person has been brought to life, the pleasures and benefits of God's word and his gifts, will not be recognized or desireable.

But was it real?
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 4:55:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:43:14 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:34:32 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.

Once I dreamt I was dead and in Heaven, next to Jesus. He told me he can return me to Earth, but then the chances I'm going to hell will get bigger. Weird, heaven had green plates and looked like my bathroom. I saw some people running around being happy. I felt sorta neutral, not happy or sad. I guess I chose life!

.
.
.

Was this real?

I was serious while saying this, btw.

Given your namesake and your atheistic viewpoint, hopefully it does not offend you that it would be presumed you are being sarcastic.

I would ask if the vision was before you became an atheist or some other chronological significance. It if was, I find it oddly amusing that the dream was also correct.

Given that you have had direct divine communication, have you attempted to pursue Him or further the discussion?
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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7/11/2012 5:03:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:55:26 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:43:14 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:34:32 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.

Once I dreamt I was dead and in Heaven, next to Jesus. He told me he can return me to Earth, but then the chances I'm going to hell will get bigger. Weird, heaven had green plates and looked like my bathroom. I saw some people running around being happy. I felt sorta neutral, not happy or sad. I guess I chose life!

.
.
.

Was this real?

I was serious while saying this, btw.

Given your namesake and your atheistic viewpoint, hopefully it does not offend you that it would be presumed you are being sarcastic.

I would ask if the vision was before you became an atheist or some other chronological significance. It if was, I find it oddly amusing that the dream was also correct.

Given that you have had direct divine communication, have you attempted to pursue Him or further the discussion?

Yeah, I see how you would consider it sarcastic, lol.

I don't really remember what I was at the point, but I think I was an atheist back then, or at least, at the verge of becoming an atheist.

And the dream was not really vivid, it was all blurry, like all others. I haven't really felt divine presence near me, it was quite weird. I did not try to continue talking, I think. I may jave asked a few questions, but I got no answer.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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7/11/2012 5:07:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://m.youtube.com...

*blocked on mobile so I can't get the timestamp; just find the bit about psychosis and hallucinations*
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/11/2012 5:17:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:03:23 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:55:26 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:43:14 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:34:32 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.

Once I dreamt I was dead and in Heaven, next to Jesus. He told me he can return me to Earth, but then the chances I'm going to hell will get bigger. Weird, heaven had green plates and looked like my bathroom. I saw some people running around being happy. I felt sorta neutral, not happy or sad. I guess I chose life!

.
.
.

Was this real?

I was serious while saying this, btw.

Given your namesake and your atheistic viewpoint, hopefully it does not offend you that it would be presumed you are being sarcastic.

I would ask if the vision was before you became an atheist or some other chronological significance. It if was, I find it oddly amusing that the dream was also correct.

Given that you have had direct divine communication, have you attempted to pursue Him or further the discussion?

Yeah, I see how you would consider it sarcastic, lol.

I don't really remember what I was at the point, but I think I was an atheist back then, or at least, at the verge of becoming an atheist.

And the dream was not really vivid, it was all blurry, like all others. I haven't really felt divine presence near me, it was quite weird. I did not try to continue talking, I think. I may jave asked a few questions, but I got no answer.

Most visions within the context are beyond vivid. Vivid cannot even explain them. So as to your dream, it would be merely speculation on my part.
SarcasticIndeed
Posts: 2,215
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7/11/2012 5:18:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 5:17:39 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 5:03:23 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:55:26 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:43:14 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:34:32 PM, SarcasticIndeed wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:27:48 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:16:12 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/11/2012 4:06:09 PM, Gileandos wrote:
Fifth, I myself met Jesus. The only attributable reason is... what? Spicy salsa night caused me to see Jesus!


Gil, seriously dude?

I'm don't want to sound to bold, but the last time anyone saw Christ was for the 40 days he walked the earth after his resurrection.

I believe there is reason to doubt what you saw, as Christ, and actually a deception, if you feel this meeting was indeed real.

Typically that is a viewpoint from the reformed tradition, if you are not reformed let me know as I have not heard any other viewpoint state that. The vast majority of Christians validate Jesus is alive and active within the Church.

Additionally, would you doubt meeting Jesus? What would the reason be? I accidently chewed on an hallucinogenic drug that happened to be at just the right time in my life, for Jesus to tell me exactly what I needed to hear to fundamentally change me?

Again, as with anyone that opposes the reality of such an event, has to deal with the telos of the event.

Once I dreamt I was dead and in Heaven, next to Jesus. He told me he can return me to Earth, but then the chances I'm going to hell will get bigger. Weird, heaven had green plates and looked like my bathroom. I saw some people running around being happy. I felt sorta neutral, not happy or sad. I guess I chose life!

.
.
.

Was this real?

I was serious while saying this, btw.

Given your namesake and your atheistic viewpoint, hopefully it does not offend you that it would be presumed you are being sarcastic.

I would ask if the vision was before you became an atheist or some other chronological significance. It if was, I find it oddly amusing that the dream was also correct.

Given that you have had direct divine communication, have you attempted to pursue Him or further the discussion?

Yeah, I see how you would consider it sarcastic, lol.

I don't really remember what I was at the point, but I think I was an atheist back then, or at least, at the verge of becoming an atheist.

And the dream was not really vivid, it was all blurry, like all others. I haven't really felt divine presence near me, it was quite weird. I did not try to continue talking, I think. I may jave asked a few questions, but I got no answer.

Most visions within the context are beyond vivid. Vivid cannot even explain them. So as to your dream, it would be merely speculation on my part.

Yeah, guessed so.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac