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Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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7/11/2012 1:29:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
That is a nonsensical piece of BS. After everyone pointed that out, he disabled the comments.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
AlwaysMoreThanYou
Posts: 2,900
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7/11/2012 1:29:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Can't watch videos on this computer, but the title has caught my interest. Can someone please summarize it?
'When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.' - John 16:13
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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7/11/2012 1:31:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It is hard to summarize because it is spoken word. Which means it is like poetry with a message. So it's hard to summarize because it is in that format.
stubs
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7/11/2012 1:33:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 1:29:36 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
That is a nonsensical piece of BS. After everyone pointed that out, he disabled the comments.

I don't think it is entirely theologically sound. I don't think that was the point. Like when he said something like, "religion saves slave, Jesus says son." Actually the bible says we (Christians) are slaves to righteousness. So while it was not theologically perfect, I do agree with the general idea.
Microsuck
Posts: 1,562
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7/11/2012 1:40:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wall of Fail

Devil worship much? - SD
Newsflash: Atheists do not believe in the Devil! - Me
Newsflash: I doesnt matter if you think you do or not.....You do - SD

"you [imabench] are very naive and so i do not consider your opinions as having any merit. you must still be in highschool" - falconduler
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/11/2012 1:45:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
1. He says that religions are basically fronts and are fundamentaly hipocritical (what they, and their members, practice is contrary to its message)

2. Religion is just following rules.

3. God/Jesus hated religion.

4. Mostly it's a bunch of cliche and trite sayings shoe-horned into a pseudo-rap format. It's fundamentally contradictory (Isn't judging, but calls it fake and a man-made infection to which Jesus is an enemy and a cure). There is also some confusion regarding the use of the word "church." In some contexts it seems that he is using it as a synonym for religion, which he hates and despites. In others, he says that he loves the church. So, I guess whatever he needs to make it rhyme.

5. It also mischaracterizes Jesus for the purposes of his contrived narrative. What mostly comes to mind is the notion that Jesus didn't give out rules, which is completely false. Not to mention that he says that Jesus hated religion and wanted to abolish it, which is funny considering the entire basis of the Catholic church is that it was ordained by Jesus.

6. It also takes the nonsensical stance of Christianity not being a religion.

7. It has a nice beat.
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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7/11/2012 2:09:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.rationalskepticism.org...
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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7/11/2012 2:20:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 1:40:10 PM, Microsuck wrote:


I haven't seen much of "The Atheist Experience" but the pieces that I have seen, I wasn't really impressed. Could someone give me more information on them? Like do a lot of people take them really seriously?
stubs
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7/11/2012 2:24:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 1:45:52 PM, drafterman wrote:

6. It also takes the nonsensical stance of Christianity not being a religion.


Yeah I would not say that Christianity is not a religion, but I think it was showing a compare and contrast among other world religions. I have taken a few living world religions classes and in a lot of them it is always people trying to reach there god or nirvana type place. The bible kind of says like don't even try to get to God because it won't work. God comes to us. So I would say that Christianity is a religion by definition, but I think that he was showing contrasting features among other religions and Christianity.
Dogknox
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7/11/2012 2:32:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Jesus made a CHURCH with his AUTHORITY to TEACH all nations!
Jesus' CHURCH has BISHOPS, it has a VISIBLE hierarchy!!

Philippians 1:1
Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons.

1 Timothy 3:1
This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

Bishops make DOCTRINE!!
Bishops save others by their TEACHING!!
1 Timothy 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Jesus made ONE CHURCH with Gods AUTHORITY!

The Christian CHURCH has BISHOPS!!
Jesus' one >CHURCH< has Bishops!

Ignatius of Antioch is CHRISTIAN!!
Ignatius of Antioch said....
"Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains [i.e., a presbyter]. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church" (Letter to the Smyrneans8:2 A.D. 110).

DO YOU SEE IT!!?
"Just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church"
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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7/11/2012 2:32:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:30:25 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
When done correctly, Christianity should be more of a relationship, a state of mind and a set of values than a true "religion".

I agree 100% I would even take it farther. Instead of "It should be more of a relationship..." I would say it all should be a relationship. I believe that is what Christianity is. Just a relationship with the creator and trusting in Jesus as Savior and Lord.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/11/2012 2:33:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:24:11 PM, stubs wrote:
At 7/11/2012 1:45:52 PM, drafterman wrote:

6. It also takes the nonsensical stance of Christianity not being a religion.


Yeah I would not say that Christianity is not a religion, but I think it was showing a compare and contrast among other world religions. I have taken a few living world religions classes and in a lot of them it is always people trying to reach there god or nirvana type place. The bible kind of says like don't even try to get to God because it won't work. God comes to us. So I would say that Christianity is a religion by definition, but I think that he was showing contrasting features among other religions and Christianity.

That's certainly a very generous interpretation. One that is certainly not supported by the video itself. If you relisten to the description it's clear he is trying to distinguish Christianity from being a religion at all. I mean, technically he's all over the place with church/religion/Christianity to the point that it's little more than a mess.
stubs
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7/11/2012 2:36:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:33:06 PM, drafterman wrote:

That's certainly a very generous interpretation. One that is certainly not supported by the video itself. If you relisten to the description it's clear he is trying to distinguish Christianity from being a religion at all. I mean, technically he's all over the place with church/religion/Christianity to the point that it's little more than a mess.

Yeah, as I said I don't think the point was to be theologically on point as much to send a message.
drafterman
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7/11/2012 2:37:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:36:08 PM, stubs wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:33:06 PM, drafterman wrote:

That's certainly a very generous interpretation. One that is certainly not supported by the video itself. If you relisten to the description it's clear he is trying to distinguish Christianity from being a religion at all. I mean, technically he's all over the place with church/religion/Christianity to the point that it's little more than a mess.

Yeah, as I said I don't think the point was to be theologically on point as much to send a message.

Sorry, but if you strip the theological content and the the contrasting between Jesus/Christianity and Religion, there is nothing left.

What do you imagine the message to be?
acvavra
Posts: 318
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7/11/2012 2:41:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Religion tells you to do good deeds and go to church and help out your fellow man and tithe and obey the golden rule and you MIGHT make it to Heaven. Jesus your vile and wicked and your sins will put you in Hell no matter how many good deeds you do. He says you have to trust Him and Him alone to be saved(John14:6, Ephesians 1:13). Religion will put in bondage, but Jesus will set YOU FREE! AMEN!
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/11/2012 2:43:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:41:10 PM, acvavra wrote:
Religion tells you to do good deeds and go to church and help out your fellow man and tithe and obey the golden rule and you MIGHT make it to Heaven.

Explain. How does religion, an abstract concept, tell you anything?

Jesus your vile and wicked and your sins will put you in Hell no matter how many good deeds you do. He says you have to trust Him and Him alone to be saved(John14:6, Ephesians 1:13). Religion will put in bondage, but Jesus will set YOU FREE! AMEN!
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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7/11/2012 2:47:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:37:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:36:08 PM, stubs wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:33:06 PM, drafterman wrote:

Sorry, but if you strip the theological content and the the contrasting between Jesus/Christianity and Religion, there is nothing left.


I did not say that there was no theological content haha. I said I don't think the main point was to be very theological and have very correct exegesis of scripture.

What do you imagine the message to be?

That Jesus saves and there is nothing we can do besides putting our faith in him to get to heaven or to get God to like us. That Jesus saves us from anything that we have done in our lives and still loves us even though we mess up a lot.
acvavra
Posts: 318
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7/11/2012 2:48:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:43:53 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:41:10 PM, acvavra wrote:
Religion tells you to do good deeds and go to church and help out your fellow man and tithe and obey the golden rule and you MIGHT make it to Heaven.

Explain. How does religion, an abstract concept, tell you anything?
Religion are the rules and duties that men tell you to do in order to get to Heaven. Christianity is following what Jesus said in His Word, not what men tell you to do. If they tell you what the Bible says, GREAT! BUT IF THEY DON'T, then they are not worth one Minute of your time.
Jesus says your vile and wicked and your sins will put you in Hell no matter how many good deeds you do. He says you have to trust Him and Him alone to be saved(John14:6, Ephesians 1:13). Religion will put in bondage, but Jesus will set YOU FREE! AMEN!
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/11/2012 2:52:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:47:53 PM, stubs wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:37:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:36:08 PM, stubs wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:33:06 PM, drafterman wrote:

Sorry, but if you strip the theological content and the the contrasting between Jesus/Christianity and Religion, there is nothing left.


I did not say that there was no theological content haha. I said I don't think the main point was to be very theological and have very correct exegesis of scripture.

What do you imagine the message to be?

That Jesus saves and there is nothing we can do besides putting our faith in him to get to heaven or to get God to like us. That Jesus saves us from anything that we have done in our lives and still loves us even though we mess up a lot.

Then why not say that? If that's the case. If you are right. Then he basically obfuscated that message with all of this insistance on explicitly and directly contrasting Jesus and his message with that of "religion."

Given that the entire video revolves around this concept, I would say that your interpretation is almost certainly not the intended message. Or at least not the complete message.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/11/2012 2:53:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:48:28 PM, acvavra wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:43:53 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:41:10 PM, acvavra wrote:
Religion tells you to do good deeds and go to church and help out your fellow man and tithe and obey the golden rule and you MIGHT make it to Heaven.

Explain. How does religion, an abstract concept, tell you anything?
Religion are the rules and duties that men tell you to do in order to get to Heaven.

I've never seen that definition, anywhere. Can you provide a reference?

Christianity is following what Jesus said in His Word, not what men tell you to do. If they tell you what the Bible says, GREAT! BUT IF THEY DON'T, then they are not worth one Minute of your time.

Jesus says your vile and wicked and your sins will put you in Hell no matter how many good deeds you do. He says you have to trust Him and Him alone to be saved(John14:6, Ephesians 1:13). Religion will put in bondage, but Jesus will set YOU FREE! AMEN!
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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7/11/2012 2:59:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:52:26 PM, drafterman wrote:

Then why not say that? If that's the case. If you are right.

Because it was "Spoken Word" and he just rhymed and use rhetoric as is that style. Again, I think he was a lot more interested in the general message and how it sounded than the theological on pointess (yeah that deff is not a word haha)

Then he basically obfuscated that message with all of this insistance on explicitly and directly contrasting Jesus and his message with that of "religion."


I think he was contrasting what Jesus said and what a lot of the catholic church says. And I'm not like hating on the catholic church, but just things like paying for remission of sins for the dead and things like that, I don't believe is taught by scripture.

Given that the entire video revolves around this concept, I would say that your interpretation is almost certainly not the intended message. Or at least not the complete message.

I don't think I am in a good position to say I can interpret the complete message because I did not make the video haha
acvavra
Posts: 318
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7/11/2012 3:05:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 2:53:29 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:48:28 PM, acvavra wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:43:53 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:41:10 PM, acvavra wrote:
Religion tells you to do good deeds and go to church and help out your fellow man and tithe and obey the golden rule and you MIGHT make it to Heaven.

Explain. How does religion, an abstract concept, tell you anything?
Religion are the rules and duties that men tell you to do in order to get to Heaven.

I've never seen that definition, anywhere. Can you provide a reference?

YES I CAN, DRAFTSMAN, CONSIDER THIS:
JESUS told a story one time that went like this(PARAPHRASED) in LUKE 18:9-14: A publican(tax collector) and a Pharisee(RELIGIOUS leader) went to the temple to pray. The Pharisee said, "God I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, EXTORTIONERS, UNJUST, ADULTERERS, OR EVEN AS THIS PUBLICAN. I fast twice in the week and I give tithes of all that I possess. (This guy DID A BUNCH OF GOOD DEEDS basically). He trusted in his religion basically. The publican was more humble and ASKED GOD TO SAVE HIM, "GOD BE MERCIFUL TO ME A SINNER." Jesus said the publican was justified before God unlike the Pharisee(Verse 14).
Additionally, Jesus criticized only the religious leaders(Matthew 23). He did not criticize the sinners(John 4).

Christianity is following what Jesus said in His Word, not what men tell you to do. If they tell you what the Bible says, GREAT! BUT IF THEY DON'T, then they are not worth one Minute of your time.



Jesus says your vile and wicked and your sins will put you in Hell no matter how many good deeds you do. He says you have to trust Him and Him alone to be saved(John14:6, Ephesians 1:13). Religion will put in bondage, but Jesus will set YOU FREE! AMEN!
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/11/2012 3:21:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 1:25:20 PM, stubs wrote:


I know this is old and probably most have seen it before, but I wanted to post it on here for those that have not.


I posted this video a couple months ago..

I think it's awesome. Great message. Sound theology. love how many haters he got.

Makes sense, people who follow sound doctrine are usually shunned or hated by the majority.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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7/11/2012 3:35:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why I hate basketball, but love Michael Jordan's slam dunk...lol Anyway, the title is incoherent , so I do not feel compelled to watch.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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7/11/2012 4:10:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 3:05:36 PM, acvavra wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:53:29 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:48:28 PM, acvavra wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:43:53 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/11/2012 2:41:10 PM, acvavra wrote:
Religion tells you to do good deeds and go to church and help out your fellow man and tithe and obey the golden rule and you MIGHT make it to Heaven.

Explain. How does religion, an abstract concept, tell you anything?
Religion are the rules and duties that men tell you to do in order to get to Heaven.

I've never seen that definition, anywhere. Can you provide a reference?

YES I CAN, DRAFTSMAN, CONSIDER THIS:
JESUS told a story one time that went like this(PARAPHRASED) in LUKE 18:9-14: A publican(tax collector) and a Pharisee(RELIGIOUS leader) went to the temple to pray. The Pharisee said, "God I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, EXTORTIONERS, UNJUST, ADULTERERS, OR EVEN AS THIS PUBLICAN. I fast twice in the week and I give tithes of all that I possess. (This guy DID A BUNCH OF GOOD DEEDS basically). He trusted in his religion basically. The publican was more humble and ASKED GOD TO SAVE HIM, "GOD BE MERCIFUL TO ME A SINNER." Jesus said the publican was justified before God unlike the Pharisee(Verse 14).
Additionally, Jesus criticized only the religious leaders(Matthew 23). He did not criticize the sinners(John 4).



Christianity is following what Jesus said in His Word, not what men tell you to do. If they tell you what the Bible says, GREAT! BUT IF THEY DON'T, then they are not worth one Minute of your time.


At no point in this mess did you provide a definition for religion. Try again.


Jesus says your vile and wicked and your sins will put you in Hell no matter how many good deeds you do. He says you have to trust Him and Him alone to be saved(John14:6, Ephesians 1:13). Religion will put in bondage, but Jesus will set YOU FREE! AMEN!
Paradox_7
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7/11/2012 4:23:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 4:10:49 PM, drafterman wrote:
At no point in this mess did you provide a definition for religion. Try again.


Religion - A collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values.

The dominant theme in this definition is "systems".

The reason I am such a fan of this video, is because it emphasizes a hope, and a trust in another VS a system or set of moral values.

Like he said, religion says "do", but Jesus says "done".
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
stubs
Posts: 1,887
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7/11/2012 5:33:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/11/2012 3:35:09 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
Why I hate basketball, but love Michael Jordan's slam dunk...lol Anyway, the title is incoherent , so I do not feel compelled to watch.

You can love watching Michael Jordan dunk, but hate the game of basketball hahahah