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Why would a God want to...

Xer
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8/29/2009 9:11:43 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Why would a omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God want to create a universe or anything for that matter? What's the point?
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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8/29/2009 9:42:05 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:11:43 AM, Nags wrote:
Why would a omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God want to create a universe or anything for that matter? What's the point?

Boredom?
So prove me wrong, then.
I-am-a-panda
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8/29/2009 9:45:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
YES!!!!! Possible answers:

- God is all loving: How could God be programmed to love which does not yet exist? And don't give the omniscience rebuttal. The only explanation is that he requires a creator, and ad infinitum.

- God got bored - How would he know how to make such a complex system with no knowledge of it?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/29/2009 9:46:20 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:11:43 AM, Nags wrote:
Why would a omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God want to create a universe or anything for that matter? What's the point?

1: Because God had to due to cosmological laws beyond your ken.
2: Because the previous one smelt funny and in any case he had been meaning to redecorate for some time.
3: Maybe he is the universe?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
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8/29/2009 9:47:48 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:46:20 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
3: Maybe he is the universe?

Still begs the question of it's creation, being God doesn't just happen.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:45:19 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
- God got bored - How would he know how to make such a complex system with no knowledge of it?

Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/29/2009 9:50:05 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
Why the fùck does God need offerings? He created EVERYTHING. What can you possibly offer him? He can only be giving, there's nothing you can give him in return, okay? If he wants anything he can have it. You giving him a lamb doesn't fùcking mean anything, it's his lamb to begin with if he supposedly exists, what's the fùcking point? Why would he make us go through the trouble? (It's because HE'S A DÌCK.) - TheAmazingAtheist
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/29/2009 9:50:31 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.

God can't be "learning". If God is omniscient, he already knows everything.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/29/2009 9:51:05 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:50:05 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
Why the fùck does God need offerings? He created EVERYTHING. What can you possibly offer him? He can only be giving, there's nothing you can give him in return, okay? If he wants anything he can have it. You giving him a lamb doesn't fùcking mean anything, it's his lamb to begin with if he supposedly exists, what's the fùcking point? Why would he make us go through the trouble? (It's because HE'S A DÌCK.) - TheAmazingAtheist

Everyone needs a little appreciation from time to time!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Xer
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8/29/2009 9:51:08 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:50:05 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
Why the fùck does God need offerings? He created EVERYTHING. What can you possibly offer him? He can only be giving, there's nothing you can give him in return, okay? If he wants anything he can have it. You giving him a lamb doesn't fùcking mean anything, it's his lamb to begin with if he supposedly exists, what's the fùcking point? Why would he make us go through the trouble? (It's because HE'S A DÌCK.) - TheAmazingAtheist

Lol.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/29/2009 9:52:09 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:50:31 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.

God can't be "learning". If God is omniscient, he already knows everything.

Erm well... you see... OMG look behind you!

Phew got out of that one!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
regebro
Posts: 1,152
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8/29/2009 9:53:10 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:45:19 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
- God got bored - How would he know how to make such a complex system with no knowledge of it?

He doesn't need to have the knowledge before he does it. There is also nothing to say that this is the first try. :)
So prove me wrong, then.
I-am-a-panda
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8/29/2009 9:53:49 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:50:31 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.

God can't be "learning". If God is omniscient, he already knows everything.

How does he know what doesn't exist? He certainly can't see into the future.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/29/2009 9:54:43 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:53:49 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:50:31 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.

God can't be "learning". If God is omniscient, he already knows everything.

How does he know what doesn't exist? He certainly can't see into the future.

Oho, but if he's omniscient, then he can...
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/29/2009 9:57:30 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:54:43 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:53:49 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:50:31 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.

God can't be "learning". If God is omniscient, he already knows everything.

How does he know what doesn't exist? He certainly can't see into the future.

Oho, but if he's omniscient, then he can...

Paradox. He knows something before he does. Where this though originate from though?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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8/29/2009 9:59:45 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:54:43 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:53:49 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:50:31 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.

God can't be "learning". If God is omniscient, he already knows everything.

How does he know what doesn't exist? He certainly can't see into the future.

Oho, but if he's omniscient, then he can...

People like to define omniscient as knowing all past, present, and future; but, truthfully, I can accept God knowing the entire past, and knowing everything of the present that is occurring, giving him all of the possible knowledge; however, does he necessarily have to know the entire future, forever and ever? I was just curious about that whole bit.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/29/2009 10:01:47 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:59:45 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:54:43 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:53:49 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:50:31 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.

God can't be "learning". If God is omniscient, he already knows everything.

How does he know what doesn't exist? He certainly can't see into the future.

Oho, but if he's omniscient, then he can...

People like to define omniscient as knowing all past, present, and future; but, truthfully, I can accept God knowing the entire past, and knowing everything of the present that is occurring, giving him all of the possible knowledge; however, does he necessarily have to know the entire future, forever and ever? I was just curious about that whole bit.

If you truly knew the entire past and present, wouldn't you also know the future by extrapolation?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/29/2009 10:01:57 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:59:45 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:54:43 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:53:49 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:50:31 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.

God can't be "learning". If God is omniscient, he already knows everything.

How does he know what doesn't exist? He certainly can't see into the future.

Oho, but if he's omniscient, then he can...

People like to define omniscient as knowing all past, present, and future; but, truthfully, I can accept God knowing the entire past, and knowing everything of the present that is occurring, giving him all of the possible knowledge; however, does he necessarily have to know the entire future, forever and ever? I was just curious about that whole bit.

Yes. An omniscient God knows when people are born, when people will die, and the end of time; thus, he knows the future.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/29/2009 10:02:19 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:59:45 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:54:43 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:53:49 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:50:31 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.

God can't be "learning". If God is omniscient, he already knows everything.

How does he know what doesn't exist? He certainly can't see into the future.

Oho, but if he's omniscient, then he can...

People like to define omniscient as knowing all past, present, and future; but, truthfully, I can accept God knowing the entire past, and knowing everything of the present that is occurring, giving him all of the possible knowledge; however, does he necessarily have to know the entire future, forever and ever? I was just curious about that whole bit.

Omni- All. Not all some, or some some. Just all. :)
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/29/2009 10:02:44 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:59:45 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:54:43 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:53:49 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:50:31 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:48:28 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Black holes, cancer, the appendix, belgium, God was clearly learning how to create as he went along as evidenced by the numerous flaws in his creation.

God can't be "learning". If God is omniscient, he already knows everything.

How does he know what doesn't exist? He certainly can't see into the future.

Oho, but if he's omniscient, then he can...

People like to define omniscient as knowing all past, present, and future; but, truthfully, I can accept God knowing the entire past, and knowing everything of the present that is occurring, giving him all of the possible knowledge; however, does he necessarily have to know the entire future, forever and ever? I was just curious about that whole bit.

Even a supreme entity such as the Christian God can't know the future, at least not ad infinitum.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/29/2009 10:10:31 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 10:02:44 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Even a supreme entity such as the Christian God can't know the future, at least not ad infinitum.

And why not? xDDDDDD

Paradox. He knows something before he does. Where this though originate from though?

And that's why the Christian God no existy. Game over!
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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8/29/2009 10:13:11 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 10:10:31 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/29/2009 10:02:44 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Even a supreme entity such as the Christian God can't know the future, at least not ad infinitum.

And why not? xDDDDDD

Paradox. He knows something before he does. Where this though originate from though?

And that's why the Christian God no existy. Game over!

YEAAAAAY!!!!!
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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8/29/2009 10:16:46 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 10:15:26 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I realize that omni- is all, but 'all' implies more 'all possible' than 'all that one can think of', as far as I'm aware.

Wouldn't be much of a God if it didn't know the future, eh?
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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8/29/2009 10:22:40 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 10:16:46 AM, Nags wrote:
At 8/29/2009 10:15:26 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I realize that omni- is all, but 'all' implies more 'all possible' than 'all that one can think of', as far as I'm aware.

Wouldn't be much of a God if it didn't know the future, eh?

Well, assuming that this God does exist, wouldn't really matter what standards we tried to judge him by; what we think he is, or what we want him to be =/= what he is, necessarily.
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/29/2009 11:17:13 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 9:11:43 AM, Nags wrote:
Why would a omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God want to create a universe or anything for that matter? What's the point?

To express Himself:

God shows His nature in that He has given all things and all glory to His Son:
All things were made through Jesus Christ.
Adam disobeyed God and creation 'fell' into enemy hands.

The Son shows His nature in that He sacrifices Himself for the Father and for us:
Jesus Christ personally enters human history to put things right.
By His Spirit we (Christians) are now the Light and Salt of the earth.

This is unbearable for the enemy and his people and so this planet moves inexorably towards a crisis of belief that culminates in humanity trying to destroy itself rather than submit to Jesus Christ.
(as an aside; have you noticed HOW many movies have the world being destroyed lately? it's like the person planning to commit suicide.. endlessly replaying it in their mind..)
The Cross.. the Cross.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/29/2009 11:40:55 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 11:17:13 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:11:43 AM, Nags wrote:
Why would a omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God want to create a universe or anything for that matter? What's the point?

To express Himself:

God shows His nature in that He has given all things and all glory to His Son:
A father glorifying his son and giving him everything. Daddy's boy, much?
All things were made through Jesus Christ.
Wait a minute, so Jesus was a tool? So God used his son to make everything, and then gave all those things to his son. Hmmm.... something is not right about that.
Adam disobeyed God and creation 'fell' into enemy hands.

The Son shows His nature in that He sacrifices Himself for the Father and for us:
He went to heaven. When a man gains more out of something than he loses, it's not called a sacrifice. It's called a smart guy who bets everything he has because he knows he'll win. Unless of course, you're going to argue that Jesus went to hell.
Jesus Christ personally enters human history to put things right.
What exactly did he make right?
By His Spirit we (Christians) are now the Light and Salt of the earth.
Well, stop being the salt of the earth, because it'd be really nice if you all killed yourselves and the ocean turned into one big pool of fresh water. The light is fine. We need the light part.

This is unbearable for the enemy and his people and so this planet moves inexorably towards a crisis of belief that culminates in humanity trying to destroy itself rather than submit to Jesus Christ.
Either you have a pretty wide definition of Jesus, a pretty wide definition of self-destruction, or you're just linking two entirely unrelated things. I think it's the last one.
(as an aside; have you noticed HOW many movies have the world being destroyed lately? it's like the person planning to commit suicide.. endlessly replaying it in their mind..)
I'm sorry, how do you destroy a movie? You mean, break a DVD? Or running a magnet through a VHS? I do not understand what you are saying.
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?
DATCMOTO
Posts: 6,160
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8/29/2009 12:01:05 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 11:40:55 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/29/2009 11:17:13 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:11:43 AM, Nags wrote:
Why would a omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God want to create a universe or anything for that matter? What's the point?

To express Himself:

God shows His nature in that He has given all things and all glory to His Son:
A father glorifying his son and giving him everything. Daddy's boy, much?
All things were made through Jesus Christ.
Wait a minute, so Jesus was a tool? So God used his son to make everything, and then gave all those things to his son. Hmmm.... something is not right about that.
Adam disobeyed God and creation 'fell' into enemy hands.

The Son shows His nature in that He sacrifices Himself for the Father and for us:
He went to heaven. When a man gains more out of something than he loses, it's not called a sacrifice. It's called a smart guy who bets everything he has because he knows he'll win. Unless of course, you're going to argue that Jesus went to hell.
Jesus Christ personally enters human history to put things right.
What exactly did he make right?
By His Spirit we (Christians) are now the Light and Salt of the earth.
Well, stop being the salt of the earth, because it'd be really nice if you all killed yourselves and the ocean turned into one big pool of fresh water. The light is fine. We need the light part.

This is unbearable for the enemy and his people and so this planet moves inexorably towards a crisis of belief that culminates in humanity trying to destroy itself rather than submit to Jesus Christ.
Either you have a pretty wide definition of Jesus, a pretty wide definition of self-destruction, or you're just linking two entirely unrelated things. I think it's the last one.
(as an aside; have you noticed HOW many movies have the world being destroyed lately? it's like the person planning to commit suicide.. endlessly replaying it in their mind..)
I'm sorry, how do you destroy a movie? You mean, break a DVD? Or running a magnet through a VHS? I do not understand what you are saying.

Willfully misunderstanding every point: sure beats adressing them..
The Cross.. the Cross.
Rezzealaux
Posts: 2,251
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8/29/2009 12:16:30 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 8/29/2009 12:01:05 PM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 8/29/2009 11:40:55 AM, Rezzealaux wrote:
At 8/29/2009 11:17:13 AM, DATCMOTO wrote:
At 8/29/2009 9:11:43 AM, Nags wrote:
Why would a omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God want to create a universe or anything for that matter? What's the point?

To express Himself:

God shows His nature in that He has given all things and all glory to His Son:
A father glorifying his son and giving him everything. Daddy's boy, much?
All things were made through Jesus Christ.
Wait a minute, so Jesus was a tool? So God used his son to make everything, and then gave all those things to his son. Hmmm.... something is not right about that.
Adam disobeyed God and creation 'fell' into enemy hands.

The Son shows His nature in that He sacrifices Himself for the Father and for us:
He went to heaven. When a man gains more out of something than he loses, it's not called a sacrifice. It's called a smart guy who bets everything he has because he knows he'll win. Unless of course, you're going to argue that Jesus went to hell.
Jesus Christ personally enters human history to put things right.
What exactly did he make right?
By His Spirit we (Christians) are now the Light and Salt of the earth.
Well, stop being the salt of the earth, because it'd be really nice if you all killed yourselves and the ocean turned into one big pool of fresh water. The light is fine. We need the light part.

This is unbearable for the enemy and his people and so this planet moves inexorably towards a crisis of belief that culminates in humanity trying to destroy itself rather than submit to Jesus Christ.
Either you have a pretty wide definition of Jesus, a pretty wide definition of self-destruction, or you're just linking two entirely unrelated things. I think it's the last one.
(as an aside; have you noticed HOW many movies have the world being destroyed lately? it's like the person planning to commit suicide.. endlessly replaying it in their mind..)
I'm sorry, how do you destroy a movie? You mean, break a DVD? Or running a magnet through a VHS? I do not understand what you are saying.

Willfully misunderstanding every point: sure beats adressing them..

Willfully ignoring every point: sure beats addressing them...
: If you weren't new here, you'd know not to feed me such attention. This is like an orgasm in my brain right now. *hehe, my name is in a title, hehe* (http://www.debate.org...)

Just in case I get into some BS with FREEDO again about how he's NOT a narcissist.

"The law is there to destroy evil under the constitutional government."
So... what's there to destroy evil inside of and above the constitutional government?