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If you had been born in Saudi Arabia

Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/14/2012 1:27:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lets say that you were born in Saudi Arabia and your family was strongly Muslim. You were raised a Muslim and as a child you believed. You were taught to have faith. What do you do?

Now lets say that you are born in Alabama. Your family is Baptist and as a child you believed, and told to have faith. What do you do then?

If there is a difference between your actions in these two scenarios, how would you know to take them?
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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7/14/2012 1:30:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 1:27:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Lets say that you were born in Saudi Arabia and your family was strongly Muslim. You were raised a Muslim and as a child you believed. You were taught to have faith. What do you do?

Now lets say that you are born in Alabama. Your family is Baptist and as a child you believed, and told to have faith. What do you do then?

If there is a difference between your actions in these two scenarios, how would you know to take them?

There's no real difference between the actions. But it would be wrong to think that people only believe a certain way because of how they were raised. People convert to other religions as teenagers and adults.
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/14/2012 1:31:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What about the scenarios where you are born into a Hindu household, a Greek polytheist household in ancient Greece, a Mormon household, or an atheist household?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/14/2012 1:38:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 1:31:13 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
What about the scenarios where you are born into a Hindu household, a Greek polytheist household in ancient Greece, a Mormon household, or an atheist household?

Or an atheist Chinese household?

The veracity of an ideology or philosophy is not dictated by whether or not you were taught it.

All ideologies are taught and all ideologies are from cognition.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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7/14/2012 1:44:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 1:27:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Lets say that you were born in Saudi Arabia and your family was strongly Muslim. You were raised a Muslim and as a child you believed. You were taught to have faith. What do you do?

Now lets say that you are born in Alabama. Your family is Baptist and as a child you believed, and told to have faith. What do you do then?

If there is a difference between your actions in these two scenarios, how would you know to take them?

yes.

Becoming an apostate in saudi arabia can lead to your being charged with Apostasy... and Being Legally Murdered by the government.
(granted they've not executed people recently for it)

Also.. it's absolute social suicide to turn from Islam in saudi arabia..
In alabama it's probably slightly less-so.. and you could always move to another state of the country ;)
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/14/2012 1:57:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 1:30:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 7/14/2012 1:27:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Lets say that you were born in Saudi Arabia and your family was strongly Muslim. You were raised a Muslim and as a child you believed. You were taught to have faith. What do you do?

Now lets say that you are born in Alabama. Your family is Baptist and as a child you believed, and told to have faith. What do you do then?

If there is a difference between your actions in these two scenarios, how would you know to take them?

There's no real difference between the actions. But it would be wrong to think that people only believe a certain way because of how they were raised. People convert to other religions as teenagers and adults.

I never said that people only believe the way they do only because they were raised.

In fact 44% of Americans are in a different faith they were born with, while 56% are in the same. 47% have never ever changed their faith. However this does not take into account the people who changed to religions that are only slightly different.
http://www.pewforum.org...

Many people switched from one Christian religion to another, and other switched to being non-religious.

So what would you do if born Muslim?
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/14/2012 1:58:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 1:38:16 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/14/2012 1:31:13 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
What about the scenarios where you are born into a Hindu household, a Greek polytheist household in ancient Greece, a Mormon household, or an atheist household?

Or an atheist Chinese household?

The veracity of an ideology or philosophy is not dictated by whether or not you were taught it.

All ideologies are taught and all ideologies are from cognition.

You never answered the question. What would you do?
Gileandos
Posts: 2,394
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7/14/2012 2:19:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 1:58:33 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/14/2012 1:38:16 PM, Gileandos wrote:
At 7/14/2012 1:31:13 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
What about the scenarios where you are born into a Hindu household, a Greek polytheist household in ancient Greece, a Mormon household, or an atheist household?

Or an atheist Chinese household?

The veracity of an ideology or philosophy is not dictated by whether or not you were taught it.

All ideologies are taught and all ideologies are from cognition.

You never answered the question. What would you do?

I believe nurture is fundamental to our being. I believe I would do just as each of them do now. Without God reaching out to me first here, despite a church on every street corner, I would still have ignored him, like the rest of my generation and culture.

I would do exactly as they do now.

But even saying that, it does not indicate the veracity of a viewpoint vs. another. I happen to be fortunate to have surrounded myself in a culture of education and discerned the process to determine the veracity of an ideology on top of having God directly nurture me.
Tnkissfan
Posts: 199
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7/14/2012 2:32:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Its nonsensical to ask because one does not know what they *would* have done. I've speculated on what I would do in many situations and I've found that sometimes I do what I would not ordinarily have done.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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7/14/2012 7:42:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 1:57:42 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/14/2012 1:30:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 7/14/2012 1:27:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Lets say that you were born in Saudi Arabia and your family was strongly Muslim. You were raised a Muslim and as a child you believed. You were taught to have faith. What do you do?

Now lets say that you are born in Alabama. Your family is Baptist and as a child you believed, and told to have faith. What do you do then?

If there is a difference between your actions in these two scenarios, how would you know to take them?

There's no real difference between the actions. But it would be wrong to think that people only believe a certain way because of how they were raised. People convert to other religions as teenagers and adults.

I never said that people only believe the way they do only because they were raised.

In fact 44% of Americans are in a different faith they were born with, while 56% are in the same. 47% have never ever changed their faith. However this does not take into account the people who changed to religions that are only slightly different.
http://www.pewforum.org...

Many people switched from one Christian religion to another, and other switched to being non-religious.

So what would you do if born Muslim?

Be Muslim.
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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7/14/2012 7:46:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 1:57:42 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
At 7/14/2012 1:30:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 7/14/2012 1:27:22 PM, Dan4reason wrote:
Lets say that you were born in Saudi Arabia and your family was strongly Muslim. You were raised a Muslim and as a child you believed. You were taught to have faith. What do you do?

Now lets say that you are born in Alabama. Your family is Baptist and as a child you believed, and told to have faith. What do you do then?

If there is a difference between your actions in these two scenarios, how would you know to take them?

There's no real difference between the actions. But it would be wrong to think that people only believe a certain way because of how they were raised. People convert to other religions as teenagers and adults.

I never said that people only believe the way they do only because they were raised.

In fact 44% of Americans are in a different faith they were born with, while 56% are in the same. 47% have never ever changed their faith. However this does not take into account the people who changed to religions that are only slightly different.
http://www.pewforum.org...

Many people switched from one Christian religion to another, and other switched to being non-religious.

So what would you do if born Muslim?

I'd eventually write, "Why I Renounced Islam by Wallstreetatheist"
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TanusBarbarus
Posts: 124
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7/16/2012 7:57:47 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
IMO, the OP brings up what is troubling to myself, and others whom I have met.
Namely, if one accepts that God is just, and that all of the worlds religions cannot be 'the True Religion of God' by their own definitions, and that it is an overwhelming truth that your religion is greatly determined by the place and circumstances of your birth, then it must be accepted that many will be condemned to an afterlife of torment simply for being born in a certain place.
As a former Christian, I know the answer that I used to give - that God is merciful, but also just, and since the gospel of JC has been revealed to all, it is a choice that each person must be judged for.
Each faith must believe that their God and fellow believers have done what is required in bringing the 'truth' to those of other faiths, and if those non-believers cannot see what is so evident to those who have been 'saved' or 'chosen', then they will be judged fairly by God.
It is discomforting for a believer to know that half or more of the people in the world are destined for hellfire, but that discomfort is tempered by the joy of having picked the right horse in the race.
But what if the others are right, and you are wrong?
Personally, I think they are all wrong.
I have heard many debates on this subject, but I have seen no conclusive proof that would contradict the assumption that if you are born in a predominantly Muslim society, or a Christian society, the odds are greatly in favor of you staying in that faith. Obviously, there is movement within sects, or denominations, and there are those who change from one faith to a different one entirely, or as in my case, leave theism entirely, but I believe those are the exception to the rule.
So, uncomfortable as it may make believers, it is overwhelmingly true that if you think Christianity is the true religion, there are thousands and thousands of Muslims born in Middle Eastern countries every day, who are statistically doomed to eternal torment because of where they were born. And from their point of view, you are equally lost.
Believers will always try to frame this as a matter of free will, but any reasonable look at the numbers proves otherwise.
As others have stated above, however, at least in many Christian environs, one can leave the faith without suffering anything more than social and familial repercussions - threat to life and limb is not a factor. The same cannot be said for many Islamic countries, and Islam in general, where it is an accepted fact that the punishment for apostasy is death.
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