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The unexplainable

ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
THE SHROUD OF TURIN!

Explain its creation scientifically?

The Shroud is in 3D unlike any cloth, painting, picture, or man made canvas ever viewed. How?

How does Carbon dating say it was created in 1200-1300AD but there are records of the Shroud long before 1200AD. Even though the Shroud's creation still today is unexplainable they scientists suggest it was made in 1200-1300AD before photographs and the ability of our technology. Why can't it be reproduced if it was made by human hands?

If the Shroud was the burial cloth of Jesus it verifies alot about the story of Jesus.

I would like thoughts?
TheAsylum
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/14/2012 5:46:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THE SHROUD OF TURIN!

Explain its creation scientifically?

The Shroud is in 3D unlike any cloth, painting, picture, or man made canvas ever viewed. How?

How does Carbon dating say it was created in 1200-1300AD but there are records of the Shroud long before 1200AD. Even though the Shroud's creation still today is unexplainable they scientists suggest it was made in 1200-1300AD before photographs and the ability of our technology. Why can't it be reproduced if it was made by human hands?

If the Shroud was the burial cloth of Jesus it verifies alot about the story of Jesus.

I would like thoughts?

The Fool: Come on man. Do you really need somebody to explain this to you.
Just try it. Even you can figure it out. I am being honest. Just try it!
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
Dan4reason
Posts: 1,168
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7/14/2012 5:49:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THE SHROUD OF TURIN!

Explain its creation scientifically?

The Shroud is in 3D unlike any cloth, painting, picture, or man made canvas ever viewed. How?

How does Carbon dating say it was created in 1200-1300AD but there are records of the Shroud long before 1200AD. Even though the Shroud's creation still today is unexplainable they scientists suggest it was made in 1200-1300AD before photographs and the ability of our technology. Why can't it be reproduced if it was made by human hands?

If the Shroud was the burial cloth of Jesus it verifies alot about the story of Jesus.

I would like thoughts?

Just because we cannot explain something now or reverse engineer it does ot make it supernatural.
Even if the shroud was around before 1200, that does not mean it was around at 33.
The unexplained is not necessarily unexplainable.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/14/2012 6:42:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 5:58:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:


I would like thoughts?

I bet you would.

The Fool:LOL!
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
EvanK
Posts: 599
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7/14/2012 7:19:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THE SHROUD OF TURIN!

Explain its creation scientifically?

The Shroud is in 3D unlike any cloth, painting, picture, or man made canvas ever viewed. How?

How does Carbon dating say it was created in 1200-1300AD but there are records of the Shroud long before 1200AD. Even though the Shroud's creation still today is unexplainable they scientists suggest it was made in 1200-1300AD before photographs and the ability of our technology. Why can't it be reproduced if it was made by human hands?

If the Shroud was the burial cloth of Jesus it verifies alot about the story of Jesus.

I would like thoughts?

Prove it was the burial cloth of Jesus.

Obviously, it would be hard to prove one way or another, but it's one of many "mysteries" of Christianity that we are just supposed to believe. Carbon dating is pretty darn accurate if you ask me, and I find it hard to believe in it's authenticity with the large gap of 1300 years. Had it been carbon dated within 100 years give or take, of Jesus' death, then I may give it more weight, but that's too much of a gap for me.

While there are records of this Shroud before 1200-1300 AD, it's hard to argue the carbon dating. Perhaps the original Shroud was ruined, and this is it's replacement? Obviously it is impossible to know, but I'm very skeptical of it's authenticity.

Personally, I didn't give it much weight when deciding my faith. Compared to everything else going on in the world, and everything else that Christians are supposed to believe in order to be Christians, the Shroud is rather unimportant in my opinion.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,764
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7/14/2012 7:28:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Even the Catholic Church refuses to take a position on whether it is real or not. Carbon dating shows that it is not authentic. From a Scientific perspective, all evidence shows that it is not authentic.
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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7/14/2012 7:30:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 7:19:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THE SHROUD OF TURIN!

Explain its creation scientifically?

The Shroud is in 3D unlike any cloth, painting, picture, or man made canvas ever viewed. How?

How does Carbon dating say it was created in 1200-1300AD but there are records of the Shroud long before 1200AD. Even though the Shroud's creation still today is unexplainable they scientists suggest it was made in 1200-1300AD before photographs and the ability of our technology. Why can't it be reproduced if it was made by human hands?

If the Shroud was the burial cloth of Jesus it verifies alot about the story of Jesus.

I would like thoughts?

Prove it was the burial cloth of Jesus.

Obviously, it would be hard to prove one way or another, but it's one of many "mysteries" of Christianity that we are just supposed to believe. Carbon dating is pretty darn accurate if you ask me, and I find it hard to believe in it's authenticity with the large gap of 1300 years. Had it been carbon dated within 100 years give or take, of Jesus' death, then I may give it more weight, but that's too much of a gap for me.

While there are records of this Shroud before 1200-1300 AD, it's hard to argue the carbon dating. Perhaps the original Shroud was ruined, and this is it's replacement? Obviously it is impossible to know, but I'm very skeptical of it's authenticity.

Personally, I didn't give it much weight when deciding my faith. Compared to everything else going on in the world, and everything else that Christians are supposed to believe in order to be Christians, the Shroud is rather unimportant in my opinion.

Elaborate
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
EvanK
Posts: 599
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7/14/2012 7:36:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 7:30:35 PM, phantom wrote:
At 7/14/2012 7:19:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THE SHROUD OF TURIN!

Explain its creation scientifically?

The Shroud is in 3D unlike any cloth, painting, picture, or man made canvas ever viewed. How?

How does Carbon dating say it was created in 1200-1300AD but there are records of the Shroud long before 1200AD. Even though the Shroud's creation still today is unexplainable they scientists suggest it was made in 1200-1300AD before photographs and the ability of our technology. Why can't it be reproduced if it was made by human hands?

If the Shroud was the burial cloth of Jesus it verifies alot about the story of Jesus.

I would like thoughts?

Prove it was the burial cloth of Jesus.

Obviously, it would be hard to prove one way or another, but it's one of many "mysteries" of Christianity that we are just supposed to believe. Carbon dating is pretty darn accurate if you ask me, and I find it hard to believe in it's authenticity with the large gap of 1300 years. Had it been carbon dated within 100 years give or take, of Jesus' death, then I may give it more weight, but that's too much of a gap for me.

While there are records of this Shroud before 1200-1300 AD, it's hard to argue the carbon dating. Perhaps the original Shroud was ruined, and this is it's replacement? Obviously it is impossible to know, but I'm very skeptical of it's authenticity.

Personally, I didn't give it much weight when deciding my faith. Compared to everything else going on in the world, and everything else that Christians are supposed to believe in order to be Christians, the Shroud is rather unimportant in my opinion.

Elaborate

They need to believe in Prayer, in the divinity of Christ, in all of the miracles in the bible. They need to believe that there is a God that loves us all, and that he intercedes on our behalf if we pray enough, while people who pray are starving in the streets (of most every country in the world), are oppressed by those of different religions (specifically Muslims in the Middle East). Where children are abused by those supposedly chosen by God to serve in his church and spread his Word.

All in all, I believe all these and more, matter much more in my faith than whether or not the Shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Christ.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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7/14/2012 7:57:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 7:36:05 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 7/14/2012 7:30:35 PM, phantom wrote:
At 7/14/2012 7:19:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THE SHROUD OF TURIN!

Explain its creation scientifically?

The Shroud is in 3D unlike any cloth, painting, picture, or man made canvas ever viewed. How?

How does Carbon dating say it was created in 1200-1300AD but there are records of the Shroud long before 1200AD. Even though the Shroud's creation still today is unexplainable they scientists suggest it was made in 1200-1300AD before photographs and the ability of our technology. Why can't it be reproduced if it was made by human hands?

If the Shroud was the burial cloth of Jesus it verifies alot about the story of Jesus.

I would like thoughts?

Prove it was the burial cloth of Jesus.

Obviously, it would be hard to prove one way or another, but it's one of many "mysteries" of Christianity that we are just supposed to believe. Carbon dating is pretty darn accurate if you ask me, and I find it hard to believe in it's authenticity with the large gap of 1300 years. Had it been carbon dated within 100 years give or take, of Jesus' death, then I may give it more weight, but that's too much of a gap for me.

While there are records of this Shroud before 1200-1300 AD, it's hard to argue the carbon dating. Perhaps the original Shroud was ruined, and this is it's replacement? Obviously it is impossible to know, but I'm very skeptical of it's authenticity.

Personally, I didn't give it much weight when deciding my faith. Compared to everything else going on in the world, and everything else that Christians are supposed to believe in order to be Christians, the Shroud is rather unimportant in my opinion.

Elaborate

They need to believe in Prayer, in the divinity of Christ, in all of the miracles in the bible. They need to believe that there is a God that loves us all, and that he intercedes on our behalf if we pray enough, while people who pray are starving in the streets (of most every country in the world), are oppressed by those of different religions (specifically Muslims in the Middle East). Where children are abused by those supposedly chosen by God to serve in his church and spread his Word.

All in all, I believe all these and more, matter much more in my faith than whether or not the Shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Christ.

Thanks.

In my opinion, when scientific evidence(the cloth) for a belief is weighed against emotional (evil & suffering), or doubtful (miracles and prayer) arguments, the scientific evidence transcends those outweighing factors. Though I am not convinced by the cloth, I do disagree that the other arguments you mentioned are more important in establishing belief. (Not to say they aren't important, just that they don't bare as much weight, though of course in poportion to how validified they have been)
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
EvanK
Posts: 599
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7/14/2012 8:21:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 7:57:08 PM, phantom wrote:
At 7/14/2012 7:36:05 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 7/14/2012 7:30:35 PM, phantom wrote:
At 7/14/2012 7:19:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THE SHROUD OF TURIN!

Explain its creation scientifically?

The Shroud is in 3D unlike any cloth, painting, picture, or man made canvas ever viewed. How?

How does Carbon dating say it was created in 1200-1300AD but there are records of the Shroud long before 1200AD. Even though the Shroud's creation still today is unexplainable they scientists suggest it was made in 1200-1300AD before photographs and the ability of our technology. Why can't it be reproduced if it was made by human hands?

If the Shroud was the burial cloth of Jesus it verifies alot about the story of Jesus.

I would like thoughts?

Prove it was the burial cloth of Jesus.

Obviously, it would be hard to prove one way or another, but it's one of many "mysteries" of Christianity that we are just supposed to believe. Carbon dating is pretty darn accurate if you ask me, and I find it hard to believe in it's authenticity with the large gap of 1300 years. Had it been carbon dated within 100 years give or take, of Jesus' death, then I may give it more weight, but that's too much of a gap for me.

While there are records of this Shroud before 1200-1300 AD, it's hard to argue the carbon dating. Perhaps the original Shroud was ruined, and this is it's replacement? Obviously it is impossible to know, but I'm very skeptical of it's authenticity.

Personally, I didn't give it much weight when deciding my faith. Compared to everything else going on in the world, and everything else that Christians are supposed to believe in order to be Christians, the Shroud is rather unimportant in my opinion.

Elaborate

They need to believe in Prayer, in the divinity of Christ, in all of the miracles in the bible. They need to believe that there is a God that loves us all, and that he intercedes on our behalf if we pray enough, while people who pray are starving in the streets (of most every country in the world), are oppressed by those of different religions (specifically Muslims in the Middle East). Where children are abused by those supposedly chosen by God to serve in his church and spread his Word.

All in all, I believe all these and more, matter much more in my faith than whether or not the Shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Christ.

Thanks.

In my opinion, when scientific evidence(the cloth) for a belief is weighed against emotional (evil & suffering), or doubtful (miracles and prayer) arguments, the scientific evidence transcends those outweighing factors. Though I am not convinced by the cloth, I do disagree that the other arguments you mentioned are more important in establishing belief. (Not to say they aren't important, just that they don't bare as much weight, though of course in poportion to how validified they have been)

I agree that science does trump emotions, but I'm not going to base my belief/disbelief on the Shroud, because it's such a small part of the faith, in my opinion, compared to all of the other factors. But I do see your point.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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7/14/2012 8:23:12 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 7:28:13 PM, twocupcakes wrote:
Even the Catholic Church refuses to take a position on whether it is real or not. Carbon dating shows that it is not authentic. From a Scientific perspective, all evidence shows that it is not authentic.

Where is that evidence? Really because no scientist can disprove it. No one will say it is not authentic, because they can not prove it is not.
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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7/14/2012 8:25:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 5:58:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:


I would like thoughts?

I bet you would.

I would and obviously you have little knowledge on it.
TheAsylum
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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7/14/2012 8:30:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 7:19:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THE SHROUD OF TURIN!

Why does this cloth hold evidences that no other has? It displays attributes that nothing in history has. It is a real life evidence. No scientist or artist can explain it and it is just a cloth with a human figure. Why is it so controversial? Also carbon dating is far from accurate and the ability to not accept that is a scientific problem. Also if it was the cloth of Jesus and verifies His crucifixion that it should be very significant.
TheAsylum
EvanK
Posts: 599
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7/14/2012 8:48:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/14/2012 8:30:56 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 7/14/2012 7:19:22 PM, EvanK wrote:
At 7/14/2012 4:40:11 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
THE SHROUD OF TURIN!


Why does this cloth hold evidences that no other has? It displays attributes that nothing in history has. It is a real life evidence. No scientist or artist can explain it and it is just a cloth with a human figure. Why is it so controversial? Also carbon dating is far from accurate and the ability to not accept that is a scientific problem.

Since when was carbon dating inaccurate?

Also if it was the cloth of Jesus and verifies His crucifixion that it should be very significant.

If.

Fact is, it hasn't been proven authentic.
The problem with socialism is that, sooner or later, you run out of people's money."_Margaret Thatcher

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."_Thomas Jefferson

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."_Thomas Jefferson

"It is easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled."-Mark Twain