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Does God Create Evil?

Paradox_7
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7/16/2012 8:33:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This debate isn't focused on if God created evil, but it seems to keep going back to it.

If you don't have an hour to watch the entire debate, just skip to the middle and they should be talking about it.

Pretty interesting.

http://youtu.be...
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
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7/16/2012 8:33:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/16/2012 8:47:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 8:41:30 PM, joneszj wrote:
this should be good ;)


Well the calvanist explains that he does, but in the sense that the sun creates shadows..

Now, there are a lot of hole in that explanation, as he explains, but i understand what he's trying to present.

The sun doesn't cast shadows, however, because there is light, there are shadows that ensue.

I'm actually curious what you think of this jonezj.

Do you think God, creates evil, in way that keeps him from being morally responsible?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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7/16/2012 8:59:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 8:47:00 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/16/2012 8:41:30 PM, joneszj wrote:
this should be good ;)


Well the calvanist explains that he does, but in the sense that the sun creates shadows..

Now, there are a lot of hole in that explanation, as he explains, but i understand what he's trying to present.

The sun doesn't cast shadows, however, because there is light, there are shadows that ensue.

I'm actually curious what you think of this jonezj.

Do you think God, creates evil, in way that keeps him from being morally responsible?

I believe that God ordains everything that happens (good and evil). By ordain I mean 1) that that actions reality is made 'real' and 2) that its ordination was more then simply allowing it to happn and that it has an intent (a good intent, the action itself being good or evil). This is often used by terms like primary and secondary causation. God is the primary cause for everything, but the responsibility is on the secondary (or creaturly) causation. In this manner, God creates and ordains everything in a manner that does not violate the will of a creature of which the responsibility is upon. blah blah blah lolz
joneszj
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7/17/2012 7:52:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Really awesome debate. However it seemed to me that the Arminian was almost teaching that the future is unknown to God or that God reacts to the choices of man.
Paradox_7
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7/18/2012 5:43:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 7:52:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
Really awesome debate. However it seemed to me that the Arminian was almost teaching that the future is unknown to God or that God reacts to the choices of man.


Yeah, i thought that the nerdy little white guy took home the bacon; even though the audience seemed to be on the arminians side.

Ultimately, this is what the arminians and catholics have to concede if they want their positions to make any sense; but to make sense of their doctrine, is to eliminate a huge attribute of God's sovereignty.

Either God is not invloved in any part of his creation, or he's a part of all of it. There is no in between.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
popculturepooka
Posts: 7,924
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7/18/2012 6:02:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/17/2012 7:52:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
Really awesome debate. However it seemed to me that the Arminian was almost teaching that the future is unknown to God or that God reacts to the choices of man.

Haven't watched it yet but from what you said it seems he could've been an open theist.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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7/18/2012 6:04:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, He may have created homosexuality.

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure evil is essentially the absence of God, if you will.
Paradox_7
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7/18/2012 6:13:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Isaiah 45

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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7/18/2012 6:26:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/18/2012 6:02:05 PM, popculturepooka wrote:
At 7/17/2012 7:52:13 PM, joneszj wrote:
Really awesome debate. However it seemed to me that the Arminian was almost teaching that the future is unknown to God or that God reacts to the choices of man.

Haven't watched it yet but from what you said it seems he could've been an open theist.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Thats the term I was looking for ><

He is definatly not but something he said was dangerously close to it.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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7/18/2012 7:30:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/16/2012 8:47:00 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/16/2012 8:41:30 PM, joneszj wrote:
this should be good ;)


Well the calvanist explains that he does, but in the sense that the sun creates shadows..

Now, there are a lot of hole in that explanation, as he explains, but i understand what he's trying to present.

The sun doesn't cast shadows, however, because there is light, there are shadows that ensue.

I'm actually curious what you think of this jonezj.

Do you think God, creates evil, in way that keeps him from being morally responsible?

The big difference is that few people today believe that the Sun is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, all at the same time. If shadows were a bad thing and caused pain and suffering to people, and if the sun was a being that had the power not to cause that suffering, the knowledge of the suffering, and a love for the people affected by the suffering, then how could you rationalize the existence of suffering on a huge scale? I'm talking about mass disease and natural disasters, most of which would be primarily God's "domain", not man-made evil (murder, rape, all that evil stuff which you can technically say exists because of the necessity of free-will).
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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7/18/2012 7:42:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/18/2012 7:30:20 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 7/16/2012 8:47:00 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/16/2012 8:41:30 PM, joneszj wrote:
this should be good ;)


Well the calvanist explains that he does, but in the sense that the sun creates shadows..

Now, there are a lot of hole in that explanation, as he explains, but i understand what he's trying to present.

The sun doesn't cast shadows, however, because there is light, there are shadows that ensue.

I'm actually curious what you think of this jonezj.

Do you think God, creates evil, in way that keeps him from being morally responsible?

The big difference is that few people today believe that the Sun is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, all at the same time. If shadows were a bad thing and caused pain and suffering to people, and if the sun was a being that had the power not to cause that suffering, the knowledge of the suffering, and a love for the people affected by the suffering, then how could you rationalize the existence of suffering on a huge scale? I'm talking about mass disease and natural disasters, most of which would be primarily God's "domain", not man-made evil (murder, rape, all that evil stuff which you can technically say exists because of the necessity of free-will).


The analogy of the Sun, is not the best, and the Calvinist expresses his understanding for that matter-- but at this point, the only group having an answer for the case is the Calvinists.

Now, to say that 'natural' disaters are God's domain, seem's like you believe our sin had nothing to do with it. Sin infected the whole of creation-- everything. There were no natural disasters prior to the fall, and there was no death.

I won't go as far as to say that certain disasters were punishment to a certain people (even though i could see that being plausible), but i will say that God has a purpose for everything; or he has no purpose at all.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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7/18/2012 7:45:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/18/2012 7:30:20 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 7/16/2012 8:47:00 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/16/2012 8:41:30 PM, joneszj wrote:
this should be good ;)


Well the calvanist explains that he does, but in the sense that the sun creates shadows..

Now, there are a lot of hole in that explanation, as he explains, but i understand what he's trying to present.

The sun doesn't cast shadows, however, because there is light, there are shadows that ensue.

I'm actually curious what you think of this jonezj.

Do you think God, creates evil, in way that keeps him from being morally responsible?

The big difference is that few people today believe that the Sun is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, all at the same time. If shadows were a bad thing and caused pain and suffering to people, and if the sun was a being that had the power not to cause that suffering, the knowledge of the suffering, and a love for the people affected by the suffering, then how could you rationalize the existence of suffering on a huge scale? I'm talking about mass disease and natural disasters, most of which would be primarily God's "domain", not man-made evil (murder, rape, all that evil stuff which you can technically say exists because of the necessity of free-will).

There are four explinations for the existance of evil and God.
1 Metaphysical
2 Free Will
3 Greater Good
4 Greater Glory

You can find a good critique of each here: http://www.reformed.org...

I would like your opinion on the 4th explination listed under "A Biblical Perspective" on the link provided. It actually addresses moral evils and natural evils (earthquakes, disasters, etc,). Its a pretty good read.
joneszj
Posts: 1,202
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7/18/2012 7:46:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/18/2012 7:42:47 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/18/2012 7:30:20 PM, jat93 wrote:
At 7/16/2012 8:47:00 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 7/16/2012 8:41:30 PM, joneszj wrote:
this should be good ;)


Well the calvanist explains that he does, but in the sense that the sun creates shadows..

Now, there are a lot of hole in that explanation, as he explains, but i understand what he's trying to present.

The sun doesn't cast shadows, however, because there is light, there are shadows that ensue.

I'm actually curious what you think of this jonezj.

Do you think God, creates evil, in way that keeps him from being morally responsible?

The big difference is that few people today believe that the Sun is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, all at the same time. If shadows were a bad thing and caused pain and suffering to people, and if the sun was a being that had the power not to cause that suffering, the knowledge of the suffering, and a love for the people affected by the suffering, then how could you rationalize the existence of suffering on a huge scale? I'm talking about mass disease and natural disasters, most of which would be primarily God's "domain", not man-made evil (murder, rape, all that evil stuff which you can technically say exists because of the necessity of free-will).


The analogy of the Sun, is not the best, and the Calvinist expresses his understanding for that matter-- but at this point, the only group having an answer for the case is the Calvinists.

Now, to say that 'natural' disaters are God's domain, seem's like you believe our sin had nothing to do with it. Sin infected the whole of creation-- everything. There were no natural disasters prior to the fall, and there was no death.

I won't go as far as to say that certain disasters were punishment to a certain people (even though i could see that being plausible), but i will say that God has a purpose for everything; or he has no purpose at all.

Well put Dox