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YOu CAN'T BE BOTH CATHOLIC AND PRO-ABORTION

Lasagna
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7/31/2012 3:22:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I see this bumper sticker quite a bit in Green Bay, and I usually just shrug it off and say "well that's why I'm not Catholic..."

However, I'd like to explore the meaning of this message. Is abortion completely incompatible with Christianity (I see no reason to focus on Catholicism here)? Can a "good Christian" go out every other November and vote for Democrats without some sort of moral dilemma?
Rob
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/31/2012 4:54:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, in my experience with Christianity abortion destroys one of God's creations. In the minds of Catholics especially a fetus is a human which is a creation of God's and killing it not only goes against God's will but is also murder.

As a Christian in general I guess it would depend on how much stock you put in God's creation, will and whether or not you think God sees a fetus as a human or just some cellular material. So the same issues with abortion are present with Christians.

Personally, I think abortion is killing. But that's derived from both a philosophical and a religious view.

It all depends on what religious sect you're part of, your personal views and your level of religious faith.

Catholics are particularly anti-abortion though.
Rational_Thinker9119
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7/31/2012 6:49:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 6:06:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
Thankfully, no one actually is pro-abortion.

Wow, I was just going to say the exact same thing before I saw this post (thank you). Nobody I know if is pro-abortion, we are pro-choice. Huge difference!
Rational_Thinker9119
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7/31/2012 6:57:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
For example, I'm not pro-break up. If couples could all get along and not break up that would be wonderful. However, if someone wants to break up with their spouse, they have that right. This is pretty much my view on abortion. I'm not standing there like "Ya get that baby out!". I'm standing there like "Well, if this is what you want to do, I see nothing wrong with that if done right".
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/31/2012 8:36:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: Sure you could be anything just reinterprete the BIBLE
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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7/31/2012 8:41:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 6:57:36 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
For example, I'm not pro-break up. If couples could all get along and not break up that would be wonderful. However, if someone wants to break up with their spouse, they have that right. This is pretty much my view on abortion. I'm not standing there like "Ya get that baby out!". I'm standing there like "Well, if this is what you want to do, I see nothing wrong with that if done right".

That's just schematics.

I'm not Pro-Murder but I'm Pro-Freedom to Kill

You know what I mean?

I don't want people killing each other but they should have the right to choose to kill someone if they so please.

Schematics.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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7/31/2012 9:13:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 6:06:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
Thankfully, no one actually is pro-abortion.

Someone hasn't been reading his bible...

2 Kings 15:16
Then from Tirzah, Menahem attacked Tiphsah, all who were there, and its territory. Because they did not surrender, therefore he attacked it. All the women there who were with child he ripped open.

Hosea 13:16
Samaria is held guilty,
For she has rebelled against her God.
They shall fall by the sword,
Their infants shall be dashed in pieces,
And their women with child ripped open.

Numbers 31:17
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately.

Numbers 5:11-21
11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 12 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘If any man's wife goes astray and behaves unfaithfully toward him, 13 and a man lies with her carnally, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and it is concealed that she has defiled herself, and there was no witness against her, nor was she caught— 14 if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, who has defiled herself; or if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, although she has not defiled herself— 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. He shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, because it is a grain offering of jealousy, an offering for remembering, for bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 ‘And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord. 17 The priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 Then the priest shall stand the woman before the Lord, uncover the woman's head, and put the offering for remembering in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 And the priest shall put her under oath, and say to the woman, "If no man has lain with you, and if you have not gone astray to uncleanness while under your husband's authority, be free from this bitter water that brings a curse. 20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has lain with you"— 21 then the priest shall put the woman under the oath of the curse, and he shall say to the woman—"the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh rot and your belly swell;

Hosea 9:11-16
As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird—
No birth, no pregnancy, and no conception!
12 Though they bring up their children,
Yet I will bereave them to the last man.
Yes, woe to them when I depart from them!
13 Just as I saw Ephraim like Tyre, planted in a pleasant place,
So Ephraim will bring out his children to the murderer."
14 Give them, O Lord—
What will You give?
Give them a miscarrying womb
And dry breasts!
15 "All their wickedness is in Gilgal,
For there I hated them.
Because of the evil of their deeds
I will drive them from My house;
I will love them no more.
All their princes are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is stricken,
Their root is dried up;
They shall bear no fruit.
Yes, were they to bear children,
I would kill the darlings of their womb."
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KeytarHero
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7/31/2012 9:14:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm not entirely sure. On the surface, this seems to commit the No True Scotsman fallacy. But the problem is Catholics are supposed to accept the teachings of the Catholic church, and the Catholic church is clearly and decidedly pro-life. If you can't even accept their pro-life views, then how can you accept their other views that God is real or that Jesus can save from sin?

Plus, anyone who is Christian and pro-choice is not very good at Biblical interpretation. There's a difference between eisegesis (reading into Scripture what you want it to say) and exegesis (drawing out of Scripture its intended meaning). Any Christian who gets a pro-choice case from Scripture is blatantly committing an eisegesis, having to twist the Scriptures around like a pretzel in order to get it to support their pro-choice beliefs.
KeytarHero
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7/31/2012 9:16:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 8:41:03 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/31/2012 6:57:36 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
For example, I'm not pro-break up. If couples could all get along and not break up that would be wonderful. However, if someone wants to break up with their spouse, they have that right. This is pretty much my view on abortion. I'm not standing there like "Ya get that baby out!". I'm standing there like "Well, if this is what you want to do, I see nothing wrong with that if done right".

That's just schematics.

I'm not Pro-Murder but I'm Pro-Freedom to Kill

You know what I mean?

I don't want people killing each other but they should have the right to choose to kill someone if they so please.

Schematics.

I believe you mean *semantics.* lol
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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7/31/2012 9:16:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 4:54:13 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:

Catholics are particularly anti-abortion though.

More Catholics = More Revenue
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The_Fool_on_the_hill
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7/31/2012 9:17:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:14:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
I'm not entirely sure. On the surface, this seems to commit the No True Scotsman fallacy. But the problem is Catholics are supposed to accept the teachings of the Catholic church, and the Catholic church is clearly and decidedly pro-life. If you can't even accept their pro-life views, then how can you accept their other views that God is real or that Jesus can save from sin?

Plus, anyone who is Christian and pro-choice is not very good at Biblical interpretation. There's a difference between eisegesis (reading into Scripture what you want it to say) and exegesis (drawing out of Scripture its intended meaning). Any Christian who gets a pro-choice case from Scripture is blatantly committing an eisegesis, having to twist the Scriptures around like a pretzel in order to get it to support their pro-choice beliefs.

The Fool: not in my reinterpretation of the BIBLE. God says I am him.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
KeytarHero
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7/31/2012 9:19:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:17:10 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:14:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
I'm not entirely sure. On the surface, this seems to commit the No True Scotsman fallacy. But the problem is Catholics are supposed to accept the teachings of the Catholic church, and the Catholic church is clearly and decidedly pro-life. If you can't even accept their pro-life views, then how can you accept their other views that God is real or that Jesus can save from sin?

Plus, anyone who is Christian and pro-choice is not very good at Biblical interpretation. There's a difference between eisegesis (reading into Scripture what you want it to say) and exegesis (drawing out of Scripture its intended meaning). Any Christian who gets a pro-choice case from Scripture is blatantly committing an eisegesis, having to twist the Scriptures around like a pretzel in order to get it to support their pro-choice beliefs.

The Fool: not in my reinterpretation of the BIBLE. God says I am him.

Reinterpretations are irrelevant. There's only one correct interpretation, and if you read the passages in context, it's usually pretty clear what is meant.
drafterman
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7/31/2012 9:21:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 8:41:03 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 7/31/2012 6:57:36 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
For example, I'm not pro-break up. If couples could all get along and not break up that would be wonderful. However, if someone wants to break up with their spouse, they have that right. This is pretty much my view on abortion. I'm not standing there like "Ya get that baby out!". I'm standing there like "Well, if this is what you want to do, I see nothing wrong with that if done right".

That's just schematics.

I'm not Pro-Murder but I'm Pro-Freedom to Kill

You know what I mean?

I don't want people killing each other but they should have the right to choose to kill someone if they so please.

Schematics.

It isn't semantics. To be Pro something means you prefer that over the alternative, to the point of exclusivity. Pro life means you prefer life over abortion. Pro abortion means you prefer abortion over life.

Pro choice means you prefer having the choice over not having the choice. If I hand you a bowl of fruit and ask you to choose, it's absurd to say that I am "pro" and specific choice.

Big difference.

If it was just semantics, then why call not call the group by its chosen name? Why deliberately call it something different?

Because you want to paint the group in a bad light. Calling it pro abortion gives the appearance that they prefer killing fetuses because that's what it means! This, in turn, creates a negative emotional reaction that biases an audience against the group you disagree with. At least have the god damned balls and honesty to admit that's what's being done here.

What's ironic is that calling the pro life group anti-choice would still be accurate - since you don't want people to have a choice in the matter - but that's not usually done (at least not as much as this pro abortion nonsense).

Now, I could have said that this form of name calling and implicit appeal to emotion indicates a lack of real argument, but I didn't go down that road. I'm still going to call a spade a spade, though.
Contra
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7/31/2012 9:26:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
People who typically say that they are Pro-Life, that is just bull.

They support the death penalty.
They support more war.
They strongly oppose stem cell research which would save lives.

Furthermore, this is a particular good picture that I have:

http://www.debate.org...

And, Jesus did not support the violent killing of doctors who performed a service to pregnant women.

You just can't make up this sh*t.

If you are legitimately pro-life;

you should oppose abortion and instead favor contraception and family planning, universal health care, be a pacifist, favor social programs, favor stem cell research, oppose the death penalty, and believe in the strong power of Democracy.

So basically, a pro-life Liberal. Interesting.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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7/31/2012 9:33:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
People who typically say that they are Pro-Life, that is just bull.

They support the death penalty.
They support more war.
They strongly oppose stem cell research which would save lives.

Furthermore, this is a particular good picture that I have:

http://www.debate.org...

And, Jesus did not support the violent killing of doctors who performed a service to pregnant women.

You just can't make up this sh*t.

If you are legitimately pro-life;

you should oppose abortion and instead favor contraception and family planning, universal health care, be a pacifist, favor social programs, favor stem cell research, oppose the death penalty, and believe in the strong power of Democracy.

So basically, a pro-life Liberal. Interesting.

Good call.
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KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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7/31/2012 9:46:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
People who typically say that they are Pro-Life, that is just bull.

They support the death penalty.
They support more war.
They strongly oppose stem cell research which would save lives.

Furthermore, this is a particular good picture that I have:

http://www.debate.org...

And, Jesus did not support the violent killing of doctors who performed a service to pregnant women.

You just can't make up this sh*t.

If you are legitimately pro-life;

you should oppose abortion and instead favor contraception and family planning, universal health care, be a pacifist, favor social programs, favor stem cell research, oppose the death penalty, and believe in the strong power of Democracy.

So basically, a pro-life Liberal. Interesting.

Baseless assertions, all of them. Not all pro-lifers support the death penaty or war, but those that do argue logically why it's not inconsistent.

Plus, pro-lifers don't oppose stem cell research, they oppose embryonic stem cell research, which kills humans for experimentation and medical research. We don't oppose adult stem cell research which, by the way, has a much higher success rate than embryonic does.

Get your facts straight before speaking up, please.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/31/2012 9:57:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:46:54 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
People who typically say that they are Pro-Life, that is just bull.

They support the death penalty.
They support more war.
They strongly oppose stem cell research which would save lives.

Furthermore, this is a particular good picture that I have:

http://www.debate.org...

And, Jesus did not support the violent killing of doctors who performed a service to pregnant women.

You just can't make up this sh*t.

If you are legitimately pro-life;

you should oppose abortion and instead favor contraception and family planning, universal health care, be a pacifist, favor social programs, favor stem cell research, oppose the death penalty, and believe in the strong power of Democracy.

So basically, a pro-life Liberal. Interesting.

Baseless assertions, all of them. Not all pro-lifers support the death penaty or war, but those that do argue logically why it's not inconsistent.

How is is not inconsistent. Please share. If you call yourself "pro life", and favor killing of people through gov't, that isn't pro life. Same with invading a nation (Iraq) and the result is the death of hundreds of thousands of people.

Plus, pro-lifers don't oppose stem cell research, they oppose embryonic stem cell research, which kills humans for experimentation and medical research. We don't oppose adult stem cell research which, by the way, has a much higher success rate than embryonic does.


It is? Can I see a source? I have not heard of that assertion before.

Get your facts straight before speaking up, please.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Aaronroy
Posts: 749
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7/31/2012 10:00:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:46:54 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
People who typically say that they are Pro-Life, that is just bull.

They support the death penalty.
They support more war.
They strongly oppose stem cell research which would save lives.

Furthermore, this is a particular good picture that I have:

http://www.debate.org...

And, Jesus did not support the violent killing of doctors who performed a service to pregnant women.

You just can't make up this sh*t.

If you are legitimately pro-life;

you should oppose abortion and instead favor contraception and family planning, universal health care, be a pacifist, favor social programs, favor stem cell research, oppose the death penalty, and believe in the strong power of Democracy.

So basically, a pro-life Liberal. Interesting.

Baseless assertions, all of them. Not all pro-lifers support the death penaty or war, but those that do argue logically why it's not inconsistent.

Calling out one for a baseless assertion, then promptly making one. Well played.
Saying those who argue that its not inconsistent are uniformly logical in their methods of argumentation is misrepresenting a lot of people who otherwise are not logically arguing so.
Plus, pro-lifers don't oppose stem cell research, they oppose embryonic stem cell research, which kills humans for experimentation and medical research. We don't oppose adult stem cell research which, by the way, has a much higher success rate than embryonic does.

You realize what an embryo is, right?
Get your facts straight before speaking up, please.
If you're going to call one out for lacking factual content, please know how stupid it is to be against embyronic stem cell research when the majority of embyros used by the researchers are pulled from Sperm & Embyro Banks. The same embryos, of which, would have been previously discarded in the local disposal unit due to expiration.
turn down for h'what
Zarathrusa
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7/31/2012 10:00:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
People who typically say that they are Pro-Life, that is just bull.

They support the death penalty.
They support more war.
They strongly oppose stem cell research which would save lives.

Furthermore, this is a particular good picture that I have:

http://www.debate.org...

And, Jesus did not support the violent killing of doctors who performed a service to pregnant women.

You just can't make up this sh*t.

If you are legitimately pro-life;

you should oppose abortion and instead favor contraception and family planning, universal health care, be a pacifist, favor social programs, favor stem cell research, oppose the death penalty, and believe in the strong power of Democracy.

So basically, a pro-life Liberal. Interesting.

Wow... Great job on turning this from a Catholic-Abortion thing to ultimately associating it with political ideologies coupled according with baseless assertions. Bravo.
KeytarHero
Posts: 612
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7/31/2012 10:11:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:57:41 PM, Contra wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:46:54 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
People who typically say that they are Pro-Life, that is just bull.

They support the death penalty.
They support more war.
They strongly oppose stem cell research which would save lives.

Furthermore, this is a particular good picture that I have:

http://www.debate.org...

And, Jesus did not support the violent killing of doctors who performed a service to pregnant women.

You just can't make up this sh*t.

If you are legitimately pro-life;

you should oppose abortion and instead favor contraception and family planning, universal health care, be a pacifist, favor social programs, favor stem cell research, oppose the death penalty, and believe in the strong power of Democracy.

So basically, a pro-life Liberal. Interesting.

Baseless assertions, all of them. Not all pro-lifers support the death penaty or war, but those that do argue logically why it's not inconsistent.

How is is not inconsistent. Please share. If you call yourself "pro life", and favor killing of people through gov't, that isn't pro life. Same with invading a nation (Iraq) and the result is the death of hundreds of thousands of people.

Plus, pro-lifers don't oppose stem cell research, they oppose embryonic stem cell research, which kills humans for experimentation and medical research. We don't oppose adult stem cell research which, by the way, has a much higher success rate than embryonic does.


It is? Can I see a source? I have not heard of that assertion before.

Get your facts straight before speaking up, please.

It's not inconsistent because being pro-life is about the protection of innocent life. Capital punishment is putting a convicted murder, after a fair trial by their peers, to death. Huge difference.

Plus pro-lifers who support war do not support all wars, just *just* wars. Not all wars are justified but the ones that are would be supported by pro-lifers.

Stand by on the source for the stem cell research. Before I find the source, I'll just point out that the reason embryonic stem cells fail is the same reason that some kidney transplants fail. You are putting another human's stem cells into your body, which oftentime (in fact, usually) forms into cancerous tumors. Whereas if you use a person's own stem cells, their body won't reject it because it comes from their own body.
Contra
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7/31/2012 10:24:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 10:18:27 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
Here we go. Adult stem cells have treated at least 73 known diseases while their embryonic counterparts have treated none.

http://www.stemcellresearch.org...

Thanks for the clarification. I am in favor of both, but this information is a good insight.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
Contra
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7/31/2012 10:24:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 10:00:47 PM, Zarathrusa wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
People who typically say that they are Pro-Life, that is just bull.

They support the death penalty.
They support more war.
They strongly oppose stem cell research which would save lives.

Furthermore, this is a particular good picture that I have:

http://www.debate.org...

And, Jesus did not support the violent killing of doctors who performed a service to pregnant women.

You just can't make up this sh*t.

If you are legitimately pro-life;

you should oppose abortion and instead favor contraception and family planning, universal health care, be a pacifist, favor social programs, favor stem cell research, oppose the death penalty, and believe in the strong power of Democracy.

So basically, a pro-life Liberal. Interesting.

Wow... Great job on turning this from a Catholic-Abortion thing to ultimately associating it with political ideologies coupled according with baseless assertions. Bravo.

I am much more involved in the political/economics forums. I rarely even visit the Religion thread.
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

"Americans are better off in a dynamic, free-enterprise-based economy that fosters economic growth, opportunity and upward mobility." - Paul Ryan
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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7/31/2012 10:30:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 10:18:27 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
Here we go. Adult stem cells have treated at least 73 known diseases while their embryonic counterparts have treated none.

http://www.stemcellresearch.org...

The Fool: That is the worse most unproffesion source I have seen.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
KeytarHero
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7/31/2012 10:32:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 10:30:14 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 7/31/2012 10:18:27 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
Here we go. Adult stem cells have treated at least 73 known diseases while their embryonic counterparts have treated none.

http://www.stemcellresearch.org...

The Fool: That is the worse most unproffesion source I have seen.

Ad hominem. The information isn't wrong just because the website looks unprofessional. They link to peer-reviewed sources.
Zarathrusa
Posts: 21
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7/31/2012 10:33:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 10:24:38 PM, Contra wrote:
At 7/31/2012 10:00:47 PM, Zarathrusa wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
People who typically say that they are Pro-Life, that is just bull.

They support the death penalty.
They support more war.
They strongly oppose stem cell research which would save lives.

Furthermore, this is a particular good picture that I have:

http://www.debate.org...

And, Jesus did not support the violent killing of doctors who performed a service to pregnant women.

You just can't make up this sh*t.

If you are legitimately pro-life;

you should oppose abortion and instead favor contraception and family planning, universal health care, be a pacifist, favor social programs, favor stem cell research, oppose the death penalty, and believe in the strong power of Democracy.

So basically, a pro-life Liberal. Interesting.

Wow... Great job on turning this from a Catholic-Abortion thing to ultimately associating it with political ideologies coupled according with baseless assertions. Bravo.

I am much more involved in the political/economics forums. I rarely even visit the Religion thread.

I know.
Contra
Posts: 3,941
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7/31/2012 10:39:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 10:33:35 PM, Zarathrusa wrote:
At 7/31/2012 10:24:38 PM, Contra wrote:
At 7/31/2012 10:00:47 PM, Zarathrusa wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:26:38 PM, Contra wrote:
People who typically say that they are Pro-Life, that is just bull.

They support the death penalty.
They support more war.
They strongly oppose stem cell research which would save lives.

Furthermore, this is a particular good picture that I have:

http://www.debate.org...

And, Jesus did not support the violent killing of doctors who performed a service to pregnant women.

You just can't make up this sh*t.

If you are legitimately pro-life;

you should oppose abortion and instead favor contraception and family planning, universal health care, be a pacifist, favor social programs, favor stem cell research, oppose the death penalty, and believe in the strong power of Democracy.

So basically, a pro-life Liberal. Interesting.

Wow... Great job on turning this from a Catholic-Abortion thing to ultimately associating it with political ideologies coupled according with baseless assertions. Bravo.

I am much more involved in the political/economics forums. I rarely even visit the Religion thread.

I know.

How do you know this?
"The solution [for Republicans] is to admit that Bush was a bad president, stop this racist homophobic stuff, stop trying to give most of the tax cuts to the rich, propose a real alternative to Obamacare that actually works, and propose smart free market solutions to our economic problems." - Distraff

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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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7/31/2012 10:39:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 6:06:46 PM, drafterman wrote:
Thankfully, no one actually is pro-abortion.

Someone hasn't been reading his bible...

2 Kings 15:16
Then from Tirzah, Menahem attacked Tiphsah, all who were there, and its territory. Because they did not surrender, therefore he attacked it. All the women there who were with child he ripped open.

Hosea 13:16
Samaria is held guilty,
For she has rebelled against her God.
They shall fall by the sword,
Their infants shall be dashed in pieces,
And their women with child ripped open.

Numbers 31:17
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately.

Numbers 5:11-21
11 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 12 "Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: ‘If any man's wife goes astray and behaves unfaithfully toward him, 13 and a man lies with her carnally, and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband, and it is concealed that she has defiled herself, and there was no witness against her, nor was she caught— 14 if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, who has defiled herself; or if the spirit of jealousy comes upon him and he becomes jealous of his wife, although she has not defiled herself— 15 then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. He shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, because it is a grain offering of jealousy, an offering for remembering, for bringing iniquity to remembrance.

16 ‘And the priest shall bring her near, and set her before the Lord. 17 The priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel, and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. 18 Then the priest shall stand the woman before the Lord, uncover the woman's head, and put the offering for remembering in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy. And the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 And the priest shall put her under oath, and say to the woman, "If no man has lain with you, and if you have not gone astray to uncleanness while under your husband's authority, be free from this bitter water that brings a curse. 20 But if you have gone astray while under your husband's authority, and if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has lain with you"— 21 then the priest shall put the woman under the oath of the curse, and he shall say to the woman—"the Lord make you a curse and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your thigh rot and your belly swell;

Hosea 9:11-16
As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird—
No birth, no pregnancy, and no conception!
12 Though they bring up their children,
Yet I will bereave them to the last man.
Yes, woe to them when I depart from them!
13 Just as I saw Ephraim like Tyre, planted in a pleasant place,
So Ephraim will bring out his children to the murderer."
14 Give them, O Lord—
What will You give?
Give them a miscarrying womb
And dry breasts!
15 "All their wickedness is in Gilgal,
For there I hated them.
Because of the evil of their deeds
I will drive them from My house;
I will love them no more.
All their princes are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is stricken,
Their root is dried up;
They shall bear no fruit.
Yes, were they to bear children,
I would kill the darlings of their womb."
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Maikuru
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7/31/2012 11:27:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 7/31/2012 9:19:13 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:17:10 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 7/31/2012 9:14:37 PM, KeytarHero wrote:
I'm not entirely sure. On the surface, this seems to commit the No True Scotsman fallacy. But the problem is Catholics are supposed to accept the teachings of the Catholic church, and the Catholic church is clearly and decidedly pro-life. If you can't even accept their pro-life views, then how can you accept their other views that God is real or that Jesus can save from sin?

Plus, anyone who is Christian and pro-choice is not very good at Biblical interpretation. There's a difference between eisegesis (reading into Scripture what you want it to say) and exegesis (drawing out of Scripture its intended meaning). Any Christian who gets a pro-choice case from Scripture is blatantly committing an eisegesis, having to twist the Scriptures around like a pretzel in order to get it to support their pro-choice beliefs.

The Fool: not in my reinterpretation of the BIBLE. God says I am him.

Reinterpretations are irrelevant. There's only one correct interpretation, and if you read the passages in context, it's usually pretty clear what is meant.

So, which interpretation is right again? Everybody seems to think it's theirs.
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