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What was a Leviathan?

TheFogHorn
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8/1/2012 6:39:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Leviathan was an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption.

If you disagree, please be very specific as to why and I will handle your objections.
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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8/1/2012 7:08:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 6:39:42 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
The Leviathan was an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption.

If you disagree, please be very specific as to why and I will handle your objections.

"Leviathan (; Hebrew: Modern Livyatan Tiberian; "twisted, coiled"), is a sea monster referred to in the Bible. In Demonology, the Leviathan is one of the seven princes of Hell and its gatekeeper (see Hellmouth). The word has become synonymous with any large sea monster or creature. In literature (e.g., Herman Melville's Moby-Dick) it refers to great whales, and in Modern Hebrew, it means simply "whale." It is described extensively in Job 41."[1]

"The Leviathan is mentioned six times in the Hebrew Bible, with Job 41:1-41:34 being dedicated to describing him in detail:
1 Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook?
3 Will he keep begging you for mercy? Will he speak to you with gentle words?
4 Will he make an agreement with you for you to take him as your slave for life?
5 Can you make a pet of him like a bird or put him on a leash for your girls?
6 Will traders barter for him? Will they divide him up among the merchants?
7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears?
8 If you lay a hand on him, you will remember the struggle and never do it again!
9 Any hope of subduing him is false; the mere sight of him is overpowering.
10 No-one is fierce enough to rouse him. Who then is able to stand against me?
11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay? Everything under heaven belongs to me.
12 I will not fail to speak of his limbs, his strength and his graceful form.
13 Who can strip off his outer coat? Who would approach him with a bridle?
14 Who dares open the doors of his mouth, ringed about with his fearsome teeth?
15 His back has rows of shields tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next that no air can pass between.
17 They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted.
18 His snorting throws out flashes of light; his eyes are like the rays of dawn.
19 Firebrands stream from his mouth; sparks of fire shoot out.
20 Smoke pours from his nostrils as from a boiling pot over a fire of reeds.
21 His breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from his mouth.
22 Strength resides in his neck; dismay goes before him.
23 The folds of his flesh are tightly joined; they are firm and immovable.
24 His chest is hard as rock, hard as a lower millstone.
25 When he rises up, the mighty are terrified; they retreat before his thrashing.
26 The sword that reaches him has no effect, nor does the spear or the dart or the javelin.
27 Iron he treats like straw and bronze like rotten wood.
28 Arrows do not make him flee, sling stones are like chaff to him.
29 A club seems to him but a piece of straw, he laughs at the rattling of the lance.
30 His undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing-sledge.
31 He makes the depths churn like a boiling cauldron and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 Behind him he leaves a glistening wake; one would think the deep had white hair.
33 Nothing on earth is his equal— a creature without fear.
34 He looks down on all that are haughty; he is king over all that are proud.
In Psalm 74 Yahweh is said to "break the heads of Leviathan in pieces" before giving his flesh to the people of the wilderness; in Psalm 104 Yahweh is praised for having made all things, including Leviathan; and in Isaiah 27:1 he is called the "wriggling serpent" who will be killed at the end of time."[1]

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org...
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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8/1/2012 7:09:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 6:39:42 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
The Leviathan was an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption.

If you disagree, please be very specific as to why and I will handle your objections.

"Leviathan or The Matter, Forme and Power of a Common Wealth Ecclesiasticall and Civil — commonly called simply Leviathan — is a book written by Thomas Hobbes (1588–1679) and published in 1651. Its name derives from the biblical Leviathan. The work concerns the structure of society and legitimate government, and is regarded as one of the earliest and most influential examples of social contract theory. The publisher was Andrew Crooke, partner in Andrew Crooke and William Cooke. Leviathan ranks high as a classical western work on statecraft comparable to Machiavelli's The Prince and is one of a number of related works incident upon the crisis of the English state framework of the time.

In Leviathan, which was written during the English Civil War (1642–1651), Hobbes argues for a social contract and rule by an absolute sovereign. He wrote that chaos or civil war – situations identified with a state of nature and the famous motto Bellum omnium contra omnes ("the war of all against all") – could only be averted by strong central government."[1]

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org...(book)
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/1/2012 7:19:32 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 6:39:42 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
The Leviathan was an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption.

If you disagree, please be very specific as to why and I will handle your objections.

So, in Isiah 27:1

"In that day lay a charge doth Jehovah, With his sword -- the sharp, and the great, and the strong, On leviathan -- a fleeing serpent, And on leviathan -- a crooked serpent, And He hath slain the dragon that [is] in the sea."

You are here saying the "fleeing" and "crooked" serpent is an underwater eruption?

If you want to argue that any textual references to the Leviathon are metaphorical (i.e. the word "serpent"), you must explain why textual references that may be used to support the "underwater eruption" hypothesis should not be similarly taken as metaphorical. An appeal to probability (i.e. the probability of having this many adjectives that could describe underwater eruptions suggests the hypothesis is true) will fail prima facie since a literal "serpent" interpretation accounts not only for the sub-set of "underwater eruption-related characteristics" you will point to but also all "non-underwater-eruption-related characteristics" WITHOUT appeal to an unnecessarily metaphorical "sieve" which weeds out every description of the Leviathon not conforming to your hypothesis.
TheFogHorn
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8/1/2012 7:31:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ron-Paul

When you've finished filling up my thread with useless copying and pasting with zero commentary, maybe you would like to comment on the OP. Be specific.
Ron-Paul
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8/1/2012 7:34:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 7:31:55 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
Ron-Paul

When you've finished filling up my thread with useless copying and pasting with zero commentary, maybe you would like to comment on the OP. Be specific.

Oh so the real evidence I have posted does not counter your unproven hypothesis? Please explain further.
TheFogHorn
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8/1/2012 7:44:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 7:19:32 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/1/2012 6:39:42 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
The Leviathan was an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption.

If you disagree, please be very specific as to why and I will handle your objections.

So, in Isiah 27:1

"In that day lay a charge doth Jehovah, With his sword -- the sharp, and the great, and the strong, On leviathan -- a fleeing serpent, And on leviathan -- a crooked serpent, And He hath slain the dragon that [is] in the sea."

You are here saying the "fleeing" and "crooked" serpent is an underwater eruption?

If you want to argue that any textual references to the Leviathon are metaphorical (i.e. the word "serpent"), you must explain why textual references that may be used to support the "underwater eruption" hypothesis should not be similarly taken as metaphorical. An appeal to probability (i.e. the probability of having this many adjectives that could describe underwater eruptions suggests the hypothesis is true) will fail prima facie since a literal "serpent" interpretation accounts not only for the sub-set of "underwater eruption-related characteristics" you will point to but also all "non-underwater-eruption-related characteristics" WITHOUT appeal to an unnecessarily metaphorical "sieve" which weeds out every description of the Leviathon not conforming to your hypothesis.

Can you please make your point clearer? Get your message across instead of trying to impress people with verbosity.

Have you never heard of 'anthropomorphism'? Your verse simply gives the volcanic eruption, or the (by then) story of it animal characteristics. This would have mostly been known about in story form and not due to eye witness accounts. Stories get embellished and that explains why most people now say the Leviathan was a crocodile, which is laughable. Have you ever heard of a fire breathing crocodile?

Fahrenheit 451 a hose is described as a python that is spitting it's venomous kerosene to the world. Sounds familiar. This kind of anthropomorphism is what makes stories good enough to pass on.

For example, in Fahrenheit 451, the author describes a hose as a python that is spitting it's venomous kerosene to the world.
TheFogHorn
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8/1/2012 7:45:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Not one bit. Please specify why exactly you feel the Leviathan was not an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption. Try one thing at a time if that makes it easier.
Ron-Paul
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8/1/2012 7:46:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 7:45:43 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
Not one bit. Please specify why exactly you feel the Leviathan was not an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption. Try one thing at a time if that makes it easier.

I did about 35 minutes ago. Posts #2 and 3.
TheFogHorn
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8/1/2012 7:48:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 7:46:27 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 8/1/2012 7:45:43 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
Not one bit. Please specify why exactly you feel the Leviathan was not an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption. Try one thing at a time if that makes it easier.

I did about 35 minutes ago. Posts #2 and 3.

No. You copied and pasted great chunks of text from the internet. That is not engaging in debate. Please specify one thing that you believe disproves the theory.
Ron-Paul
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8/1/2012 7:49:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 7:48:07 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
At 8/1/2012 7:46:27 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 8/1/2012 7:45:43 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
Not one bit. Please specify why exactly you feel the Leviathan was not an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption. Try one thing at a time if that makes it easier.

I did about 35 minutes ago. Posts #2 and 3.

No. You copied and pasted great chunks of text from the internet. That is not engaging in debate. Please specify one thing that you believe disproves the theory.

I just did. Sourced material is better than my unsourced opinion.

READ POSTS NUMBER 2 AND 3.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/1/2012 8:13:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 7:44:01 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
At 8/1/2012 7:19:32 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/1/2012 6:39:42 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
The Leviathan was an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption.

If you disagree, please be very specific as to why and I will handle your objections.

So, in Isiah 27:1

"In that day lay a charge doth Jehovah, With his sword -- the sharp, and the great, and the strong, On leviathan -- a fleeing serpent, And on leviathan -- a crooked serpent, And He hath slain the dragon that [is] in the sea."

You are here saying the "fleeing" and "crooked" serpent is an underwater eruption?

If you want to argue that any textual references to the Leviathon are metaphorical (i.e. the word "serpent"), you must explain why textual references that may be used to support the "underwater eruption" hypothesis should not be similarly taken as metaphorical. An appeal to probability (i.e. the probability of having this many adjectives that could describe underwater eruptions suggests the hypothesis is true) will fail prima facie since a literal "serpent" interpretation accounts not only for the sub-set of "underwater eruption-related characteristics" you will point to but also all "non-underwater-eruption-related characteristics" WITHOUT appeal to an unnecessarily metaphorical "sieve" which weeds out every description of the Leviathon not conforming to your hypothesis.

Can you please make your point clearer? Get your message across instead of trying to impress people with verbosity.

Have you never heard of 'anthropomorphism'? Your verse simply gives the volcanic eruption, or the (by then) story of it animal characteristics. This would have mostly been known about in story form and not due to eye witness accounts. Stories get embellished and that explains why most people now say the Leviathan was a crocodile, which is laughable. Have you ever heard of a fire breathing crocodile?

Fahrenheit 451 a hose is described as a python that is spitting it's venomous kerosene to the world. Sounds familiar. This kind of anthropomorphism is what makes stories good enough to pass on.



For example, in Fahrenheit 451, the author describes a hose as a python that is spitting it's venomous kerosene to the world.

Alright, I'll ask it in a much simpler way.

What would confirm the negative of your hypothesis? That is, what textual discovery or translation would lead you to believe the "Leviathon" is actually meant to refer to a serpent-like creature and that volcanic interruptions were no more involved than tornadoes.
TheFogHorn
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8/1/2012 8:29:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ok, I shall assume that no-one around here is able to debunk my theory. If anyone has a specific argument against it (not copied and pasted text nor re-organised logic) then please state it.
Wnope
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8/1/2012 8:30:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 8:29:28 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
Ok, I shall assume that no-one around here is able to debunk my theory. If anyone has a specific argument against it (not copied and pasted text nor re-organised logic) then please state it.

Not much of a reader, eh?
TheFogHorn
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8/1/2012 8:43:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 8:30:28 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/1/2012 8:29:28 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
Ok, I shall assume that no-one around here is able to debunk my theory. If anyone has a specific argument against it (not copied and pasted text nor re-organised logic) then please state it.

Not much of a reader, eh?

Got nothing to debunk the theory? Can't specify one thing? Anyone can copy and paste reams of text but that is not debate is it? That is juevenile. Anyone can twist a debate around to avoid having to do what is asked, but that is cowardly.

Is anyone grown up enough and brave enough to take me on properly?
Wnope
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8/1/2012 10:44:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 8:43:22 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
At 8/1/2012 8:30:28 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 8/1/2012 8:29:28 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
Ok, I shall assume that no-one around here is able to debunk my theory. If anyone has a specific argument against it (not copied and pasted text nor re-organised logic) then please state it.

Not much of a reader, eh?

Got nothing to debunk the theory? Can't specify one thing? Anyone can copy and paste reams of text but that is not debate is it? That is juevenile. Anyone can twist a debate around to avoid having to do what is asked, but that is cowardly.

Is anyone grown up enough and brave enough to take me on properly?

I asked you a question. How is your hypothesis falsifiable?

If your hypothesis isn't falsifiable textually, historically, or linguistically, then you're promoting a trivial interpretation that might as well argue a Leviathon is a whale.
Maikuru
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8/2/2012 2:55:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
This thread is pretty funny.

TheFogHorn: Can anyone debunk my totally baseless and wild theory?
Everybody: *debunks*
TheFogHorn: Hello? Anybody there? I thought not!
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

https://i.imgflip.com...
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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8/2/2012 2:59:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 2:55:48 AM, Maikuru wrote:
This thread is pretty funny.

TheFogHorn: Can anyone debunk my totally baseless and wild theory?
Everybody: *debunks*
TheFogHorn: Hello? Anybody there? I thought not!

Actually, I don't see how it was debunked.
He gave a theory of what it could actually represent rather than what plain bible text says it is. Which is a dragon. (there are also unicorns in the bible)
You're right that it's baseless though.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
SarcasticIndeed
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8/2/2012 3:07:24 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 2:59:49 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 8/2/2012 2:55:48 AM, Maikuru wrote:
This thread is pretty funny.

TheFogHorn: Can anyone debunk my totally baseless and wild theory?
Everybody: *debunks*
TheFogHorn: Hello? Anybody there? I thought not!

Actually, I don't see how it was debunked.
He gave a theory of what it could actually represent rather than what plain bible text says it is. Which is a dragon. (there are also unicorns in the bible)
You're right that it's baseless though.

Actually, it seems that the unicorns in the bible reefer to rhinos, or so I read.
<SIGNATURE CENSORED> nac
TheFogHorn
Posts: 183
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8/2/2012 6:45:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Job:
1 Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook?
7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears?

The point of the above three verses is that NO...you cannot do these things to the Leviathan. You could, however, do it to a crocodile, whale, serpent, etc.

12 I will not fail to speak of his limbs, his strength and his graceful form.
14 Who dares open the doors of his mouth, ringed about with his fearsome teeth?
15 His back has rows of shields tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next that no air can pass between.

Anthropomorphism. Unknown natural events were anthropomorphised then. Everything they did not understand was worshipped or feared and given animal, human or divine (or all) characteristics. Animals they did know about and did fear were used to describe things they didn't know about and did fear. That is why the leviathan is described using descriptors of crocodiles and also called a serpent. They didn't have the terminology needed as they didn't know what land or marine volcanoes were so they used the terminology they did have. Scary things were called serpents because snakes were scary. It's a bit like swearing.

19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

Pretty blatant descriptors of an underwater volcano.

23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

The scales/flakes of his flesh....the dark rough surface of the underwater volcano, which may at times have risen above the surface (creation of land). They thought it was a monster. They thought the dark rough stuff they saw was the monster's scaly skin. They noted that it didn't move and decided that must have been because the scales were so tightly compacted. It never entered their heads that it didn't move because it was a volcano. They didn't know about land volcanoes let alone submarine ones.

25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.

Crocodiles do not raise themselves up but crawl along. Underwater volcanoes raise themselves up as they erupt and create plumes of water and ash, and create new land.

26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.

Crocodiles are not impervious to spears. Volcanic rock is.

27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

This Leviathan can destroy anything. Have you ever known a crocodile to chew up an iron bar as though it was straw?

28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

This Leviathan cannot be moved by hook or by crook.

30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

How many crocodiles spew out 'sharp pointed things'...or brimstone?

31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.

The crocodiles were so hot they could brew up a tea? They relieved themselves in the water so it became murky?

32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

A path to shine after him? The crocs laid a flourescent path after they crawled along or an underwater volcano produced rivers of glowing lava and plumes of ash clouds? Hoary means 'white hair'. Yahweh was also described as white haired and also had smoke coming out of his nostrils. His glory was pretty intense too and it made Moses' face shine.
Ren
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8/2/2012 7:44:28 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/1/2012 7:48:07 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
At 8/1/2012 7:46:27 PM, Ron-Paul wrote:
At 8/1/2012 7:45:43 PM, TheFogHorn wrote:
Not one bit. Please specify why exactly you feel the Leviathan was not an anthropomorphised underwater volcanic eruption. Try one thing at a time if that makes it easier.

I did about 35 minutes ago. Posts #2 and 3.

No. You copied and pasted great chunks of text from the internet. That is not engaging in debate. Please specify one thing that you believe disproves the theory.

Find walls of words intimidating? I understand.

But, yeah. When I read the OP, the first thing that popped into my mind was Job, too.

Don't like the mythological tint that gives the Bible? I understand that, too... however, it's not that inconceivable that someone from way back then (you know, before the study of biology and the taxonomy of marine life) saw something like a megaladon, whale, or giant squid and figured they were looking at a monster.

I mean, for all intents and purposes, they were.

And, to think that someone could single-handedly take down a monster like that with something like a fishhook could also be construed as legendary, but not altogether outside of possibility.
TheFogHorn
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8/2/2012 8:26:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ren....reading the entire thread is advisable....

Re-posted for lazy people......includes the fact the Leviathan COULD NOT be reeled in with a hook.....

Job:
1 Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook?
7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears?

The point of the above three verses is that NO...you cannot do these things to the Leviathan. You could, however, do it to a crocodile, whale, serpent, etc.

12 I will not fail to speak of his limbs, his strength and his graceful form.
14 Who dares open the doors of his mouth, ringed about with his fearsome teeth?
15 His back has rows of shields tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next that no air can pass between.

Anthropomorphism. Unknown natural events were anthropomorphised then. Everything they did not understand was worshipped or feared and given animal, human or divine (or all) characteristics. Animals they did know about and did fear were used to describe things they didn't know about and did fear. That is why the leviathan is described using descriptors of crocodiles and also called a serpent. They didn't have the terminology needed as they didn't know what land or marine volcanoes were so they used the terminology they did have. Scary things were called serpents because snakes were scary. It's a bit like swearing.

19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

Pretty blatant descriptors of an underwater volcano.

23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

The scales/flakes of his flesh....the dark rough surface of the underwater volcano, which may at times have risen above the surface (creation of land). They thought it was a monster. They thought the dark rough stuff they saw was the monster's scaly skin. They noted that it didn't move and decided that must have been because the scales were so tightly compacted. It never entered their heads that it didn't move because it was a volcano. They didn't know about land volcanoes let alone submarine ones.

25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.

Crocodiles do not raise themselves up but crawl along. Underwater volcanoes raise themselves up as they erupt and create plumes of water and ash, and create new land.

26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.

Crocodiles are not impervious to spears. Volcanic rock is.

27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

This Leviathan can destroy anything. Have you ever known a crocodile to chew up an iron bar as though it was straw?

28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

This Leviathan cannot be moved by hook or by crook.

30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

How many crocodiles spew out 'sharp pointed things'...or brimstone?

31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.

The crocodiles were so hot they could brew up a tea? They relieved themselves in the water so it became murky?

32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

A path to shine after him? The crocs laid a flourescent path after they crawled along or an underwater volcano produced rivers of glowing lava and plumes of ash clouds? Hoary means 'white hair'. Yahweh was also described as white haired and also had smoke coming out of his nostrils. His glory was pretty intense too and it made Moses' face shine.
Ren
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8/2/2012 9:08:38 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 8:26:01 AM, TheFogHorn wrote:

Okay, everything leading up to here, one way or another, sounds much more like a large sea animal than it does a volcano, no matter how you construe it.

As a side note, an "anthropomorphism" is a statement or reference that humanizes something that markedly isn't human. A great example is a Calvin and Hobbes comic, wherein Calvin's mother is crying as she cut an onion. Not understanding the situation, Calvin inquired why his mother were crying. She replied, simply, that it was because she was cutting an onion. He replied that it must be difficult to cook when one anthropomorphizes their vegetables. xD

In any case, here's the definition:

"to ascribe human form or attributes to (an animal, plant, material object, etc.). "
http://dictionary.reference.com...

The root word is "anthro," which refers to humanity, such as in "anthropology," which is the study of humanity.

However, your post gets more interesting here:

27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

This Leviathan can destroy anything. Have you ever known a crocodile to chew up an iron bar as though it was straw?

I've never seen or heard of a volcano bite or chew anything, and really, it doesn't affect these things as though they're weak -- instead, it simply obliterates them by turning them into ash or an indistinguishable part of the magma that it's emitting.

28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

This Leviathan cannot be moved by hook or by crook.

30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

How many crocodiles spew out 'sharp pointed things'...or brimstone?

Well, I didn't see anything about brimstone in what you posted, which would have been great support for your premise. Spewing out "sharp, pointed things" could very well be teeth... or tentacles.

31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.

Ah!

Now, here, you're becoming much more compelling. That is pretty interesting, indeed... making the deep boil like a pot. Indeed, I would figure that only hot spots do that...

The crocodiles were so hot they could brew up a tea? They relieved themselves in the water so it became murky?

32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

A path to shine after him? The crocs laid a flourescent path after they crawled along or an underwater volcano produced rivers of glowing lava and plumes of ash clouds? Hoary means 'white hair'. Yahweh was also described as white haired and also had smoke coming out of his nostrils. His glory was pretty intense too and it made Moses' face shine.

HMMMmmmmm...

That is, indeed, interesting, making a math to shine before him, as magma would.

However, underwater hotspots appear to emit only a thick, black, smoke-like substance.

Nonetheless, this is interesting. I'm not altogether convinced, as the majority of the description still sounds like some sort of large, predatory animal, but that last bit is somewhat compelling, and does seem to support your hypothesis at least a little bit.

So, let's try to move a little further with it... why would God have referenced an underwater hotspot in such contexts? Because, really, a sea monster seems a lot more logically consistent with what else He was saying to Job, for example.
TheFogHorn
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8/2/2012 2:30:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
REN

What sea animal does it sound like?

Zoomorphism then if that makes you happier.

Job 41:27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

ME......This Leviathan can destroy anything. Have you ever known a crocodile to chew up an iron bar as though it was straw?

YOU....I've never seen or heard of a volcano bite or chew anything, and really, it doesn't affect these things as though they're weak -- instead, it simply obliterates them by turning them into ash or an indistinguishable part of the magma that it's emitting.

ME.....Exactly my point! The verses are saying that this thing destroys everything thrown at it. It's not like any other creature because no weapon can hurt it and that, in fact, it destroys the weapons.

28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

This Leviathan cannot be moved by hook or by crook.

30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

ME.....How many crocodiles spew out 'sharp pointed things'...or brimstone?

YOU.....Well, I didn't see anything about brimstone in what you posted, which would have been great support for your premise. Spewing out "sharp, pointed things" could very well be teeth... or tentacles.

ME.....apart from the word BRIMSTONE in my text. Did you not see it? 'or brimstone'.

32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

ME......A path to shine after him? The crocs laid a flourescent path after they crawled along or an underwater volcano produced rivers of glowing lava and plumes of ash clouds? Hoary means 'white hair'. Yahweh was also described as white haired and also had smoke coming out of his nostrils. His glory was pretty intense too and it made Moses' face shine.

YOU.......That is, indeed, interesting, making a math to shine before him, as magma would. However, underwater hotspots appear to emit only a thick, black, smoke-like substance.

ME....have you watched lots of videos of underwater volcanoes? I suspect not as each is different and some do spew out lots of lava and not just hot air.

YOU......So, let's try to move a little further with it... why would God have referenced an underwater hotspot in such contexts? Because, really, a sea monster seems a lot more logically consistent with what else He was saying to Job, for example.

ME.....god is imaginery. There is no god.
1dustpelt
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8/2/2012 2:46:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A dinosaur
Wall of LOL
"Infanticide is justified as long as the infants are below two" ~ RoyalPaladin
"Promoting female superiority is the only way to establish equality." ~ RoyalPaladin
"Jury trials should be banned. They're nothing more than opportunities for racists to destroy lives." ~ RoyalPaladin after the Zimmerman Trial.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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8/2/2012 2:48:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 6:45:11 AM, TheFogHorn wrote:
Job:
1 Can you pull in the leviathan with a fishhook or tie down his tongue with a rope?
2 Can you put a cord through his nose or pierce his jaw with a hook?
7 Can you fill his hide with harpoons or his head with fishing spears?

The point of the above three verses is that NO...you cannot do these things to the Leviathan. You could, however, do it to a crocodile, whale, serpent, etc.

12 I will not fail to speak of his limbs, his strength and his graceful form.
14 Who dares open the doors of his mouth, ringed about with his fearsome teeth?
15 His back has rows of shields tightly sealed together;
16 each is so close to the next that no air can pass between.

Anthropomorphism. Unknown natural events were anthropomorphised then. Everything they did not understand was worshipped or feared and given animal, human or divine (or all) characteristics. Animals they did know about and did fear were used to describe things they didn't know about and did fear. That is why the leviathan is described using descriptors of crocodiles and also called a serpent. They didn't have the terminology needed as they didn't know what land or marine volcanoes were so they used the terminology they did have. Scary things were called serpents because snakes were scary. It's a bit like swearing.

19 Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20 Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21 His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

Pretty blatant descriptors of an underwater volcano.

23 The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

The scales/flakes of his flesh....the dark rough surface of the underwater volcano, which may at times have risen above the surface (creation of land). They thought it was a monster. They thought the dark rough stuff they saw was the monster's scaly skin. They noted that it didn't move and decided that must have been because the scales were so tightly compacted. It never entered their heads that it didn't move because it was a volcano. They didn't know about land volcanoes let alone submarine ones.

25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.

Crocodiles do not raise themselves up but crawl along. Underwater volcanoes raise themselves up as they erupt and create plumes of water and ash, and create new land.

26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.

Crocodiles are not impervious to spears. Volcanic rock is.

27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

This Leviathan can destroy anything. Have you ever known a crocodile to chew up an iron bar as though it was straw?

28 The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

This Leviathan cannot be moved by hook or by crook.

30 Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

How many crocodiles spew out 'sharp pointed things'...or brimstone?

31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.

The crocodiles were so hot they could brew up a tea? They relieved themselves in the water so it became murky?

32 He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

A path to shine after him? The crocs laid a flourescent path after they crawled along or an underwater volcano produced rivers of glowing lava and plumes of ash clouds? Hoary means 'white hair'. Yahweh was also described as white haired and also had smoke coming out of his nostrils. His glory was pretty intense too and it made Moses' face shine.

So are you intellectually dishonest or are you somehow cognitively missing my question every time I repost it.

Before you blather about how we ought to debunk you, I'm asking whether your hypothesis is falsifiable in the first place and if so, how.

If you cannot answer whether your hypothesis is falsifiable or not, you need to go back to the drawing board.
TheFogHorn
Posts: 183
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8/2/2012 3:31:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Wnope

We're talking about the human mind as well as geology. Is it possible to test the human mind and its reaction to the sight of an underwater volcano in the same conditions as the ancient Hebrews found themselves in, i.e. extreme supersticion and ignorance? No. So what is your point? You need to go back to bed and rest your pedantic head.

My theory is logical and it fits the geology and the conditions of the time.