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Thou Shalt Not Kill *

inferno
Posts: 10,689
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8/2/2012 3:20:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Bible does say this verse, and noone can ever deny this as we have laws to protect humans from murder. The Bible speaks out against the killing of an
innocent life. However, it does defend fighting your enemies during the time
of war. It baffles my mind to see how Atheists seem to twist and turn such
a simple ideology that is even perpetuated daily in a secularised world.
See link below. Any comments.

http://www.gotquestions.org...
Magicr
Posts: 135
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8/2/2012 3:56:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why is it alright for God to break his own rules?

Killing of the first-borns in Exodus? All of these:

http://www.evilbible.com...

I am eager for an explanation.
inferno
Posts: 10,689
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8/2/2012 3:59:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 3:56:05 PM, Magicr wrote:
Why is it alright for God to break his own rules?

Killing of the first-borns in Exodus? All of these:

http://www.evilbible.com...

I am eager for an explanation.

What do you mean break His own rules ?
Rational_Thinker9119
Posts: 9,054
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8/2/2012 4:09:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 3:59:22 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/2/2012 3:56:05 PM, Magicr wrote:
Why is it alright for God to break his own rules?

Killing of the first-borns in Exodus? All of these:

http://www.evilbible.com...

I am eager for an explanation.

What do you mean break His own rules ?

You say killing is immoral ,right? Well, God has killed plenty of innocent children if The Bible is true. Thus, God is immoral by your own standards.

If one being can commit the exact same act as another, and one would be good and the other would be bad, then morality cannot be objective under this worldview. One could object and say he is the author of morality, and is so much more powerful than us, so these rules do not apply. This just means that if Hitler won the war, he could dictate morality because he would be more powerful than anyone else and is the maximal known authority.

Basically, divine command theory leads to absurdities. I haven't even scratched the surface.
ScottyDouglas
Posts: 2,350
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8/2/2012 5:31:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 4:09:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/2/2012 3:59:22 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/2/2012 3:56:05 PM, Magicr wrote:
Why is it alright for God to break his own rules?

Killing of the first-borns in Exodus? All of these:

http://www.evilbible.com...

I am eager for an explanation.

What do you mean break His own rules ?

You say killing is immoral ,right? Well, God has killed plenty of innocent children if The Bible is true. Thus, God is immoral by your own standards.

If one being can commit the exact same act as another, and one would be good and the other would be bad, then morality cannot be objective under this worldview. One could object and say he is the author of morality, and is so much more powerful than us, so these rules do not apply. This just means that if Hitler won the war, he could dictate morality because he would be more powerful than anyone else and is the maximal known authority.

Basically, divine command theory leads to absurdities. I haven't even scratched the surface.

Just 1 point, If you were the creator, would you have rights to your creation? If those creations killed each other would you have right to kill them? Do creations have more rights to theirselves than who created them? Point, the creator can do as He pleases, He has cause, if you are unable to understand it doesn't mean it is wrong. You as the creation have only rights to do as the creator demands and created you for. The creations have no right to kill other creations who are their equal. Though the creator created you all and by His chioce can destroy any creations that He sees that does not do what was commanded. Basically God says Men should not kill Men. That rule is upon us not God.
TheAsylum
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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8/2/2012 5:37:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 5:31:13 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
At 8/2/2012 4:09:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/2/2012 3:59:22 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/2/2012 3:56:05 PM, Magicr wrote:
Why is it alright for God to break his own rules?

Killing of the first-borns in Exodus? All of these:

http://www.evilbible.com...

I am eager for an explanation.

What do you mean break His own rules ?

You say killing is immoral ,right? Well, God has killed plenty of innocent children if The Bible is true. Thus, God is immoral by your own standards.

If one being can commit the exact same act as another, and one would be good and the other would be bad, then morality cannot be objective under this worldview. One could object and say he is the author of morality, and is so much more powerful than us, so these rules do not apply. This just means that if Hitler won the war, he could dictate morality because he would be more powerful than anyone else and is the maximal known authority.

Basically, divine command theory leads to absurdities. I haven't even scratched the surface.

Just 1 point, If you were the creator, would you have rights to your creation? If those creations killed each other would you have right to kill them? Do creations have more rights to theirselves than who created them? Point, the creator can do as He pleases, He has cause, if you are unable to understand it doesn't mean it is wrong. You as the creation have only rights to do as the creator demands and created you for. The creations have no right to kill other creations who are their equal. Though the creator created you all and by His chioce can destroy any creations that He sees that does not do what was commanded. Basically God says Men should not kill Men. That rule is upon us not God.

I agree. I'm actually looking forward to the day I kill my kids.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/2/2012 5:42:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
EVERYBODY

THE BIBLE WASN'T WRITTEN IN ENGLISH.

Translators have to try and pick a best-fit word, but 'kill' in this instance is a very poor choice. Murder is better. There are several Hebrew words which are translated into 'kill' in English, but they don't all have the same meaning.

The sooner people realize the Bible wasn't written in, nor does it translate perfectly into, English/French/Canadian, the better, eh?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/2/2012 5:59:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
...unless they are witches, gay, heathen, enemies, blasphemers, people who work on a Sabbath, Muslims, slaves, poor, adulterous, and rebellious kinds.

inb4 shitstorm.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/2/2012 6:00:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 5:59:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
...unless they are witches, gay, heathen, enemies, blasphemers, people who work on a Sabbath, Muslims, slaves, poor, adulterous, and rebellious kinds.

inb4 shitstorm.

That was a very unfortunate use of "and."
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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8/2/2012 6:01:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 5:59:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
...unless they are witches, gay, heathen, enemies, blasphemers, people who work on a Sabbath, Muslims, slaves, poor, adulterous, and rebellious kinds.

inb4 shitstorm.

You beat me to it.
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Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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8/3/2012 8:53:27 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 5:59:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
...unless they are witches, gay, heathen, enemies, blasphemers, people who work on a Sabbath, Muslims, slaves, poor, adulterous, and rebellious kinds.

inb4 shitstorm.


Hmm, I've blaphemed in my life, i'm poor, aldulterous (have a son, never been married), work on the sabbath, and by most peoples standards, considered a rebel...

Should i kill myself?
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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8/3/2012 9:51:24 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 3:20:20 PM, inferno wrote:
The Bible does say this verse, and noone can ever deny this as we have laws to protect humans from murder. The Bible speaks out against the killing of an
innocent life. However, it does defend fighting your enemies during the time
of war. It baffles my mind to see how Atheists seem to twist and turn such
a simple ideology that is even perpetuated daily in a secularised world.
See link below. Any comments.

http://www.gotquestions.org...

The Fool: I always found that funny when Muslims say the same, they problem is that that it also says the opposite and many more horrible things. AKA It mean if that is really Gods words he is crazy.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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8/3/2012 10:01:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/3/2012 8:53:27 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 8/2/2012 5:59:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
...unless they are witches, gay, heathen, enemies, blasphemers, people who work on a Sabbath, Muslims, slaves, poor, adulterous, and rebellious kinds.

inb4 shitstorm.


Hmm, I've blaphemed in my life, i'm poor, aldulterous (have a son, never been married), work on the sabbath, and by most peoples standards, considered a rebel...

Should i kill myself?

The Fool: you know you sound sane here. And then on another page you say something like you are glad if the world is ending. Thats not so sane. Or moral.
Stop blaming yourself humans are where the conception Good comes from. We are good. Get a decent daily routine going, go to the gym, Start reading some rational philosophy, some plato or something. Get out of this nonsense. It tell people that they are bad, Don't fill you childs head with that poison.
Get yourself a good woman with a kid.

What the hell is the Sabbath?
It doesn't sound very good?
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
The_Fool_on_the_hill
Posts: 6,071
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8/3/2012 10:19:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
The Fool: You whole life you are 23. it could have only been the last yeats. Get a student loan and go back to school. But get rid of that mind poison. I find reading Plato is always a good start get your mind thinking for itself and making decision on your own. Reading non-religious philosophy increase you intellegence and ability to make better decisions. Get a loan and God back to school. Stay away from the Religion, is an illusion of an easyway out, to not have to think, to not care about your existing life. This may be your only change. You dont' know if something is true or Good, or moral unless you have seeked out what those mean aside from Good first. If God is these things you need to know them first, to either recognize God better or to recognize if there are better ways to get answers. You reason is your freedom!! Get the girl after you have mastered and you know what you are going do with your life.
"The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant's existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another." G. W. F. HEGEL
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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8/4/2012 4:55:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 5:31:13 PM, ScottyDouglas wrote:
Just 1 point, If you were the creator, would you have rights to your creation? If those creations killed each other would you have right to kill them?

As Maikuru pointed out, having merely been the one who created the life does not give you the right to act immorally toward it. That is why we have social services to crack down on abusive parents.

Also, the first-borns in Egypt never killed anyone so what the heck are you talking about?
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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8/4/2012 12:47:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/3/2012 10:01:08 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
At 8/3/2012 8:53:27 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
At 8/2/2012 5:59:59 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
...unless they are witches, gay, heathen, enemies, blasphemers, people who work on a Sabbath, Muslims, slaves, poor, adulterous, and rebellious kinds.

inb4 shitstorm.


Hmm, I've blaphemed in my life, i'm poor, aldulterous (have a son, never been married), work on the sabbath, and by most peoples standards, considered a rebel...

Should i kill myself?

The Fool: you know you sound sane here. And then on another page you say something like you are glad if the world is ending. Thats not so sane. Or moral.
Stop blaming yourself humans are where the conception Good comes from. We are good. Get a decent daily routine going, go to the gym, Start reading some rational philosophy, some plato or something. Get out of this nonsense. It tell people that they are bad, Don't fill you childs head with that poison.
Get yourself a good woman with a kid.

What the hell is the Sabbath?
It doesn't sound very good?


Lol sane huh? well it was actually to counter the assertions made by lordknuckle... Since I've done those things, and actually continue to do some, and no one is is trying to kill me because of them, he obviously has a lack of understanding.

I do appreciate the concern that you are showing, I know you are only trying to provide some advice on what you believe is 'right' or 'productive'. However, you need to get a bit more information on my life, before you jump to such conclusions.

I'll give a bit of a break down.

I do go to the Gym! My older brother is actually the Physical training director at LA Fitness, my close cousin is a trainer there, and my younger brother is in the process of being certified as a PT (personal trainer); So, my entire family and I spend a good amount of time in the gym..lol

I do not have any College education, though I would love too, and I read quite a bit. Of course you might think all i read is the bible or something, but that is actually far from the truth. I read quite a bit of philosophy, the stuff i can stand, and a lot of history. What i learn from it, is that man has always thought he was good, and sought every excuse imaginable to avoid the possible truth of him being bad/evil. It's very egotistical too me, and as far as man is concerned-- that's the last thing we should be.

In regards to my child. I've been raised my entire life, from a pre-teen on, that I would have a family one day, and that i needed to be strong and wise for them. My father was one of the only dad's actually teaching his kids such a thing.. now, did it completely work? no.. i made a lot of mistakes. However, the foundation that he laid in my mind, of a strong loving family, and strong responsible father, laid dormate until it was my time to step up.

This 'poison' you are referring to, helped created a family stronger then almost any other family i have ever encountered. And in my 23 yrs, i've encountered a lot of families (mostly atheists) and none of them had any standards; it was all 'every man for himself'.

Of course, mostof those families were very successful, plenty of degrees, and money. However, they all lacked conviction, and treated eachother with conditional love. This, is poinson to me.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
Paradox_7
Posts: 1,870
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8/4/2012 1:20:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/3/2012 10:19:07 PM, The_Fool_on_the_hill wrote:
The Fool: You whole life you are 23. it could have only been the last yeats. Get a student loan and go back to school. But get rid of that mind poison. I find reading Plato is always a good start get your mind thinking for itself and making decision on your own. Reading non-religious philosophy increase you intellegence and ability to make better decisions. Get a loan and God back to school. Stay away from the Religion, is an illusion of an easyway out, to not have to think, to not care about your existing life. This may be your only change. You dont' know if something is true or Good, or moral unless you have seeked out what those mean aside from Good first. If God is these things you need to know them first, to either recognize God better or to recognize if there are better ways to get answers. You reason is your freedom!! Get the girl after you have mastered and you know what you are going do with your life.


I'm 23, and I have 2 kids, and a fiance to support (she's has a 6 yr old daughter). Literally no time for school right now!(lol) I'm an Insurance broker at a very prestigous agency, so i make a very decent living, and I'm happy with the progress of my life, as God guides it.

You sound very stubborn and bitter. I enjoy the beauties of this life and world that God has created, and i live my life in gratitude for it. My life is very much together, and I am in no way confused or lost. I am very solid in my out look on life and what I am meant to do...

So, thanks for those genuine words, but i am going to have to reject them on account of the very selfish and inward nature they support.
: At 10/23/2012 8:06:03 PM, tvellalott wrote:
: Don't be. The Catholic Church is ran by Darth Sidius for fvck sake. As far as I'm concerned, you're a bona fide member of the Sith.
inferno
Posts: 10,689
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8/6/2012 11:22:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 4:09:58 PM, Rational_Thinker9119 wrote:
At 8/2/2012 3:59:22 PM, inferno wrote:
At 8/2/2012 3:56:05 PM, Magicr wrote:
Why is it alright for God to break his own rules?

Killing of the first-borns in Exodus? All of these:

http://www.evilbible.com...

I am eager for an explanation.

What do you mean break His own rules ?

You say killing is immoral ,right? Well, God has killed plenty of innocent children if The Bible is true. Thus, God is immoral by your own standards.

If one being can commit the exact same act as another, and one would be good and the other would be bad, then morality cannot be objective under this worldview. One could object and say he is the author of morality, and is so much more powerful than us, so these rules do not apply. This just means that if Hitler won the war, he could dictate morality because he would be more powerful than anyone else and is the maximal known authority.

Basically, divine command theory leads to absurdities. I haven't even scratched the surface.

God has control over His Creation. He does as He pleases and does not have to answer to you or your distorted views of Him.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/6/2012 1:15:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Well, really, you're right.

If I tell my children 'Thou shalt not watch TV after 8PM', that doesn't mean I'm setting that limit for myself as well.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/6/2012 1:19:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I find it interesting that people show such a lack of interest in what the meaning of the original words are in the Bible, compared to the translated words...
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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8/6/2012 1:36:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/6/2012 1:15:16 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Well, really, you're right.

If I tell my children 'Thou shalt not watch TV after 8PM', that doesn't mean I'm setting that limit for myself as well.

Exactly, we are not on equal footing with God.

Also, if you adhere to the Bible to begin with, you should also adhere to the belief that God created everything. God has dominion over his creation, death and all.

People's biggest mistake is trying to judge and interpret God on the same level that we judge and interpret other people. That doesn't work.
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/6/2012 1:42:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/6/2012 1:36:44 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 8/6/2012 1:15:16 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Well, really, you're right.

If I tell my children 'Thou shalt not watch TV after 8PM', that doesn't mean I'm setting that limit for myself as well.

Exactly, we are not on equal footing with God.

Also, if you adhere to the Bible to begin with, you should also adhere to the belief that God created everything. God has dominion over his creation, death and all.

People's biggest mistake is trying to judge and interpret God on the same level that we judge and interpret other people. That doesn't work.

What really bugs me is when people argue against, say, the Christian God, by applying non-Christian-God characteristics to Him, and saying 'Look, contradiction!'
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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8/6/2012 1:56:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/6/2012 1:42:13 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/6/2012 1:36:44 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 8/6/2012 1:15:16 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
Well, really, you're right.

If I tell my children 'Thou shalt not watch TV after 8PM', that doesn't mean I'm setting that limit for myself as well.

Exactly, we are not on equal footing with God.

Also, if you adhere to the Bible to begin with, you should also adhere to the belief that God created everything. God has dominion over his creation, death and all.

People's biggest mistake is trying to judge and interpret God on the same level that we judge and interpret other people. That doesn't work.

What really bugs me is when people argue against, say, the Christian God, by applying non-Christian-God characteristics to Him, and saying 'Look, contradiction!'

Debating religion is silly anyways. Atheists and Christians will never truly look at each other with an open mind. They're both just interested in cramming their beliefs down the other's throats.
s-anthony
Posts: 2,582
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8/6/2012 10:55:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/4/2012 12:47:40 PM, Paradox_7 wrote:
I read quite a bit of philosophy, the stuff i can stand, and a lot of history. What i learn from it, is that man has always thought he was good, and sought every excuse imaginable to avoid the possible truth of him being bad/evil. It's very egotistical too me, and as far as man is concerned-- that's the last thing we should be.

I enjoy the beauties of this life and world that God has created, and i live my life in gratitude for it. My life is very much together, and I am in no way confused or lost.

Humans are not a part of this World? God did not create human beings?
warrior_for_truth
Posts: 43
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8/7/2012 5:08:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/2/2012 3:20:20 PM, inferno wrote:
The Bible does say this verse, and noone can ever deny this as we have laws to protect humans from murder. The Bible speaks out against the killing of an
innocent life. However, it does defend fighting your enemies during the time
of war. It baffles my mind to see how Atheists seem to twist and turn such
a simple ideology that is even perpetuated daily in a secularised world.
See link below. Any comments.

http://www.gotquestions.org...

It's because atheists are not interested in truth. They accuse Christians of cherry picking, yet they do the very same thing. Instead of looking at the whole context and digging below the surface, atheists will cherry pick a violent verse, ignore the context, and use their distortion to win an argument.
inferno
Posts: 10,689
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8/8/2012 8:42:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/7/2012 5:08:51 AM, warrior_for_truth wrote:
At 8/2/2012 3:20:20 PM, inferno wrote:
The Bible does say this verse, and noone can ever deny this as we have laws to protect humans from murder. The Bible speaks out against the killing of an
innocent life. However, it does defend fighting your enemies during the time
of war. It baffles my mind to see how Atheists seem to twist and turn such
a simple ideology that is even perpetuated daily in a secularised world.
See link below. Any comments.

http://www.gotquestions.org...

It's because atheists are not interested in truth. They accuse Christians of cherry picking, yet they do the very same thing. Instead of looking at the whole context and digging below the surface, atheists will cherry pick a violent verse, ignore the context, and use their distortion to win an argument.

Atheists are not interested in truth because they rebel against it. They would rather believe a lie or something that is convient to them in general.
inferno
Posts: 10,689
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8/8/2012 11:21:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The verse meant to not murder another unless you are protecting your ow life
in the process. A person who does kill for no reason is subject to execution.