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phantom
Posts: 6,774
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8/7/2012 11:11:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Arguments for atheism are few simply because atheism is lack of belief. Atheists usually rest their view on grounds of insufficient proof of the contrary, not arguments for their side.

But of course there's the problem of evil, but that even only disproves certain gods. I myself am theist but agree with the PoE (though I don't think it's a strong argument).
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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8/7/2012 11:48:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/7/2012 11:30:26 PM, westernmarch wrote:
Then how about a clear look into rebuttals for theism logic?

Well let's start with one of the most popular theistic arguments. The Kalam cosmological argument.

1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore the universe had a cause.

Atheists often only disagree with one of the premises. Premise two will be contended most commonly based on the first law of thermodynamics, "matter cannot be created or destroyed, only change form". According to this law, it would follow that matter has always existed since it cannot be created.

Premise one I think is the more commonly disagreed with. The refutation you'll most likely come across is quantum fluctuations which, if right, disprove causality by showing that temporary particles randomly appear out of nothing. http://universe-review.ca...

The falacy of composition is also often applied to the KCA, which is basically, how are we to acertain the laws we see in the universe apply outside the universe, or at the beginning. Or why do we assume the universe must have a cause simply because things inside of it do?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
SuburbiaSurvivor
Posts: 872
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8/8/2012 12:03:53 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Oh, an objection I used to get stuck on was the idea of causality and time. It pretty goes like this: How can a cause happen outside of time if there's no time for the cause to the cause X to happen?

Of course, this would be a problem for quantum fluctuations causing the Universe as well... But, maybe you can work it.

This is coming from a theist though. Might want to talk to Rational_Thinker (I think he gives the best arguments against the KCA, he comes up with a new one pretty much every month, haha).
"I'm going to tell you something that you're never going to forget, SuburbiaSurvivor. Women... Are just human beings"
phantom
Posts: 6,774
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8/8/2012 12:06:30 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/8/2012 12:03:52 AM, westernmarch wrote:
I believe the Higgs Boson might shed light on the subject.

About what?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
TheJackel
Posts: 508
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8/8/2012 12:27:01 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/7/2012 11:30:26 PM, westernmarch wrote:
Then how about a clear look into rebuttals for theism logic?

It's simple.. Ask a Christian what the Pantheist GOD is. Then ask them if the believe the Pantheist GOD exists. After that, simply ask them this:

What is GOD without existence?

And then you realize how silly the concept of GOD is.. You realize what actually governs everything, is the totality of everything, and what is causality... It's existence itself to which governs all that exists for it is every force to cause, every law, every rule, and everything in and of existence. It governs function, process, and systems to which includes complex cognitive systems capable of producing a conscious state. And it's not something one can create giving on is slave to require it in order to function or exist at all. It's impossible to create existence itself and it's rules.. All things in and of existence are bound by them, ruled by them, and given existence by them. First cause is existence itself.. There is no GOD of existence but existence itself. Even the Christians are begging you to believe their GOD needs existence, and that right there is the downfall of their ideology to which we can simply put into context with 1 simple question:

What is GOD without existence?

It's nothing, it's meaningless, worthless, irrelevant, non-existent, pointless, useless, nonsense, or at best a figment of the imagination. Existence doesn't require you, me, or any conscious entity to exist as it is us whom require it to exist. Theism is backwards logic, and the last thing to ever be without cause would be a conscious state that required an incredibly complex cognitive system..